meemiathai Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 As far as religious people who come here to do good works, I admire any good works, but frankly I would admire them more if they did it for the sake of HUMANITY rather than to please their God and with an agenda of CONVERSIONS. Well then,, Admire away, .... most 99% of Christians will tell you that it is not our work that converts people but Gods will. We just send the messege. There really is no hidden agenda. There is. That is to get as much people to believe in God as possible. There are of course a lot of good things these people are doing, so as there are a lot of non-religious people doing the same. It does not then mean they are all good. There are also priests molesting kids! I have no problem with freedom of beliefs but when they start preaching, in the long run it affects everyone. These are all man made stories and it wouldn't surprise me that one day they could tell you you should rape your sister for it is God's idea. And I am sick and tired of the Church telling that you should do this and you can't do that. I tell you, I have tried, I went to Catholic schools for 11 years and I really really have tried. Like he did -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 A longer version and he has got good points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustoff Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 There is. That is to get as much people to believe in God as possible. There are of course a lot of good things these people are doing, so as there are a lot of non-religious people doing the same. It does not then mean they are all good. There are also priests molesting kids! I have no problem with freedom of beliefs but when they start preaching, in the long run it affects everyone. These are all man made stories and it wouldn't surprise me that one day they could tell you you should rape your sister for it is God's idea. And I am sick and tired of the Church telling that you should do this and you can't do that. I tell you, I have tried, I went to Catholic schools for 11 years and I really really have tried. Like he did -- TOO funny - ya gotta love Carlin. Jesus had a sense of humor as well; or perhaps it was just one of his many techniques of bringing the masses into the fold: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man's enemies will be the members of his own household." ~Jesus the Christ~ (Matthew 10:34-36) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Trying to "spread the word of god" is bad enough when the targets are adults. However, it is nothing more than child abuse when these lies are told to children. Exactly. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Were it up to me that group of Xtians would have their permits revoked and be booted out of Thailand. As an example of the self same tolerance you find lacking in Christians no doubt. But anyway its all rather academic - Thai immigration policy is not up to you. ---- And I am sick and tired of the Church telling that you should do this and you can't do that. BINGO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhar Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 (edited) Wow, I took the time to read this thread and discoverd that I am hated, disliked, scorned, dispised, and would be shot at with a BB gun, with aplause. I also discovered that I hate homosexuals, although my Aunt and my cousin is gay. Would it help if I said I have not gone to Church for around 10 years? Would it help if I said the church that I belonged to would not even want me to return if I tried? Would it help if I said they basically kicked me out? Would you still shoot me or mock me because of the family I was born in to? Or would you accept me now, if I said I am pretty much agnostic, dislike organized religion, & fear death, because I really don't know what is going to happen after that? I may not be a church going Mormon, & I may not be a real Mormon by their definition... but I respect them, I respect them as people. Edited November 30, 2007 by Dakhar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiaworld Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Hmm whatever all posters say . It does seem to run deep in western culture.. People find satisfaction>be it in a thai girl, they've 'discovered' between bar & the village, or the Spiritual satisfaction.. Than newly converted all rush to invest their worldly possetions to 'Share the Great Joy' & save the heathens.. Be it BG's village family "dying of poverty", or their fellow countrymen "dying from sins" in front of Nana Plaza .. Find, what unites you, instead of concentrating on what divides you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhar Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Find, what unites you, instead of concentrating on what divides you . Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 (edited) Dakhar, talking about activist Mormons like Mitt Romney, and missionaries. Obviously many good people are born into that cult. Edited November 30, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I find that most people's criticism of Christians, centers around issues of judging or being judgmental. Christians are not really supposed to be judgmental; rather, they are supposed to be good examples and mentors, I find a lot of Christians are figuring that out lately and there is a shift now where Christians are getting back to just being a benefit where they can; helping their community, spending time with the down and out, problem teens, community programs, making a difference one on one. Giving people their lives back is real Christianity anyways, how the church gets so off track says more about the nature of man than it does about Christ. Being judgmental is much better handled by some of the posters here. They really have the heart for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimbo Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Indeed, that's Brother Tony's approach, and some Christians feel it is not effective evangelism. Sometimes, with some people, religious folks can't win. Their religion tells them to do good, and then they're condemned by nonbelievers because they do good. Is it good to totally disrespect other peoples religion, traditions and culture now? Becouse that is what the prozelytizers do. Now I have no problem with those christians who actually are out there to help people get a better life, by providing education, food, and shelter. I have worked allongside them in many a terrible place....Darfur, Iraq, Eritrea to name a few. These where very dedicated people, but not more than anyone else that where there to help, from all sorts of countries and backgrounds. In my team I had some very devout christians, and some muslims, hindu's, Buddhists and atehistst. Me I am a Norse Heathen (officially recognized as a religion in Norway, Denmark and Iceland). We were united by one thing...doing the job at hand. And I respect them all for it, and some have become life-long friends. None of them ever tried to convert me, preach to me or in any other way, turn me or the others to their own religion. We did talk abaout religion some times. Mainly when somebody asked me if I belived in the Christian god, assuming I would becouse I am European. And they would listen with interest as I told them a little bit of what I belived in. And they would tell a little bit about what they belived. And that would be it. None would come up with the drivel that your religion or beliefs is bad, and mine is superior. This was not prozelytation. More like getting to now each other, as friends and collegues. But when strangers come to my home, or roam around from house to house, with the purpose of doing their propaganda for their own religion, telling people that what they belive in is wrong, and that their own god is superior, and that all that your culture is built uppon is ultimately evil, misinformed and bad. Then that is just offensive. I liken it to go and piss on someones grave, or spitting in your face. I do not have an ounce of respect for such people. Why should I. They do not respect me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhar Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Dakhar, talking about activist Mormons like Mitt Romney, and missionaries. Obviously many good people are born into that cult. I find the word "cult" to be rather offensive. Regarding lack of respect of cultures, culture changeing etc. People are given a choice, and cultures change on their own over time. Look at the clothes worn all over the world today. Thai's were western clothes, Chinese were western clothes, Mexican were western clothes. Hair styles too. Seems about the only thing cultures hold near and dear to them is food, & language. I agree, telling someone that their beliefs that have been instilled upon them since birth is a farce, or are actually beliefs of a cult.... is the wrong thing to do. Which has been done a countless amount of times on this thread already. As for me, I was a missionary. A very laid back type. I did not grow up in Utah, so I guess I was more exposed to the real world. I did my time in a Bhudist country/culture. My theory was, wanting to hear about religion is like an apetitie. If you are not hungry, you are not hungry, it does not matter if someone waves a steak in front of you.... you are still not hungry. So be it.... no big deal. But if offered, and a person wants to hear about Chritianity, beliefs, theories etc, there is no harm in feeding that person what they requested. They then can decide if they want more or not. CorkScrew went as far as to read the Book of Mormon, that I must commend him for. Not many people would even bother to do so. They would rather just slam on Moromons without any real effort of trying to understand them at all. If you want a real eye opener... Read "Beyond the Veil." That book will reveal tons of information about the LDS reiligion. But any how, I agree, we need to respect each other, cultures, beliefs etc, and not be judgemental. Or at least try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 When ever the topic of bible thumpers come up it seems to spark a lot of negative emotion about them. Below is a link to a thread I started some time ago, I think it gives some insight that most of us if not all of us have the same opinion about them. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...7348&st=125 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmart Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Dakhar, talking about activist Mormons like Mitt Romney, and missionaries. Obviously many good people are born into that cult. I find the word "cult" to be rather offensive. Really, why? The use of that word to describe movies, literature, music or other art media usually denotes something as arcane, off-the-wall, and interesting... Used in a religious sense it correctly warns people that some lunatic megalomaniac might want to brainwash you and take all your money, before the DEA storm your little walled compound, and kill you. Don't drink the Kool Aid, etc. Misspellings of the word "cult" might be offensive to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmart Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) Dakhar, talking about activist Mormons like Mitt Romney, and missionaries. Obviously many good people are born into that cult. I find the word "cult" to be rather offensive. Really, why? The use of that word to describe movies, literature, music or other art media usually denotes something as arcane, off-the-wall, and interesting... Used in a religious sense it correctly warns people that some lunatic megalomaniac might want to brainwash you and take all your money, before the DEA storm your little walled compound, and kill you. Don't drink the Kool Aid, etc. Misspellings of the word "cult" might be offensive to some. Mormons are okay. i still have a few Osmonds records somewhere. - "Crazy Horses" kicks ass! Oops. Edited December 1, 2007 by kmart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstumbo Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Dakhar, talking about activist Mormons like Mitt Romney, and missionaries. Obviously many good people are born into that cult. All Mormon young men are missionaries (maybe not all, but most). It is something they do for 2 years when they are about 20 years old. Kind of like the young men in Thailand that become a monk for a short time as part of what young men are supposed to do in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) OK, I don't know much about the Book of Mormon and I don't want to, but it is a "baby" religion compared to the big ones, so I did call it a cult to be provocative. It doesn't mean that older religion;s belief systems are based on any more rationality. If I started my own belief system today, I am God and Pattaya is the Holy Land, and I managed to attract some believers, this would be a CULT, not a religion. Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheExpat Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) Dakhar, talking about activist Mormons like Mitt Romney, and missionaries. Obviously many good people are born into that cult. I think that people do not really know what a cult is. A cult tries to pull you awat from your family and isolate. Christians encourage family values, loving and buliding strong familes. Maybe Patpong is a cult to some of you guys.....or do the "members" of the Patpong clan encourage family values? Does Patpong draw the family closer toigether or is it a cult? Some farangs spen way more time in the beer bar than any Chrisitan spends at the church house!!!!!! Edited December 1, 2007 by TheExpat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) I don't know, a belief system that makes its young people move to tropical countries and wear black suits to visit "heathens" to convert souls to a group that wears special Mormon underwear, big it might be, but it is flirting with being a cult: http://mormoncult.org/ I guess I am not the first person to think of it that way. Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheExpat Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I don't know, a belief system that makes its young people move to tropical countries and wear black suits to visit "heathens" to convert souls to a group that wears special Mormon underwear, big it might be, but it is flirting with being a cult:http://mormoncult.org/ I guess I am not the first person to think of it that way. I would agree about Mormons being a false religion. I will say that they do not MAKE anyone do anything. These guys have a choic. If I was them, I would wear shorts However, again when speaking of Christians, I have never met one that tried to get someone to turn against their family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) My intention here is not to specifically bash Mormons. There are obviously good and bad individual people involved in all religions, sects, cults, etc. In the Thai context, I respect that this is a Buddhist country with a small Muslim, Hindu, and Christian minority and I don't think missionaries do, that is all, else they wouldn't actively be trying to change people here. Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustoff Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Looking at the dictionary definition of cult, it strikes me that any religion or other system that promotes belief in supernatural beings would fit that definition and it makes no difference how old this religion is or how many people choose to follow it. While it seems obvious that the great majority of religious teachings - however "good or bad" - are based on superstition, I do not bash any particular religion or the people who bow down to them and their charismatic leaders/promoters. The seething masses of mankind seem to need some system of supernatural belief just as they seem to need to select leaders who they can follow and who will make their decisions for them. Whether this is sad or glad is not the point so much as the quality and success of these teachings and leaders. If any teaching can be easily bastardized (I know, I know, free will and all that) to the point where adherents slaughter millions of their own kind in the name of their god or teachings, I sense massive failure. How long a religion/government has held sway or how many fervent followers they have is not as accurate a guage of quality/success as a rational and broader view. For me it gets really strange when a powerful leader (like GW) announces in public that a supernatural being personally instructed him to take his people to war. Now that is a family-breaker for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) For me it gets really strange when a powerful leader (like GW) announces in public that a supernatural being personally instructed him to take his people to war. Now that is a family-breaker for sure... Word up. It is truly scary that American leaders now must convince the voters that they are totally IRRATIONAL. There is indeed alot the Christian political right in America have in common with the Muslim Mullahs of Iran. Both groups are radical fundamentalists. It is sad to be from a nation that has gone BACKWARDS. Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimbo Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 My intention here is not to specifically bash Mormons. There are obviously good and bad individual people involved in all religions, sects, cults, etc. In the Thai context, I respect that this is a Buddhist country with a small Muslim, Hindu, and Christian minority and I don't think missionaries do, that is all, else they wouldn't actively be trying to change people here. Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhar Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 They are no more trying to change people, cutlure beliefs etc than McDonalds, Swensens, Tesco, modern medicine and the list could go on. I agree I don't think forcing religion on anyone is good at all.... period. You want to believe, fine, that is your perogative. You want to share it... you can atempt, but when I say no thanks... but a game of pool is fine with me. Than that means a game of pool is fine with me. Period. I have given those guys my name card, and told them to contact me in time of need, but do contact me to discuss religion. They have never called me, but I would help if needed. I am sure they have other shoulders to rely on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 The truth is you can’t force anyone to believe anything, and a belief system needs to be believed or it doesn’t really exist. All you have instead is a rulebook, not much different than a manual for a motorbike. Religion and faith shouldn't be synonyms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjock Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Word up. It is truly scary that American leaders now must convince the voters that they are totally IRRATIONAL. There is indeed alot the Christian political right in America have in common with the Muslim Mullahs of Iran. Both groups are radical fundamentalists. It is sad to be from a nation that has gone BACKWARDS. AMEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheExpat Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Word up. It is truly scary that American leaders now must convince the voters that they are totally IRRATIONAL. There is indeed alot the Christian political right in America have in common with the Muslim Mullahs of Iran. Both groups are radical fundamentalists. It is sad to be from a nation that has gone BACKWARDS. AMEN Really??? When was the last time you sam an American saw off someone's head in the name of Christianity? Or call for the death penalty for teacher named if she named teddy bear Jesus??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corkscrew Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) Word up. It is truly scary that American leaders now must convince the voters that they are totally IRRATIONAL. There is indeed alot the Christian political right in America have in common with the Muslim Mullahs of Iran. Both groups are radical fundamentalists. It is sad to be from a nation that has gone BACKWARDS. AMEN I suspect that some of these candidates are atheists at heart. They are sort of like the ushers who line the kids up to see the department store Santa Claus. They are not going to tell the kids that there is no Santa even though they know there isn't one. Otherise they would never get the job (and, besides, they don't want to spoil their Christmas beliefs). "In order to truly appreciate the wisdom of atheism you have to know something about religion." Edited December 1, 2007 by corkscrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 <SNIP>For me it gets really strange when a powerful leader (like GW) announces in public that a supernatural being personally instructed him to take his people to war. Now that is a family-breaker for sure... GWB said that? You gotta be kidding me man! hah hah thats funny. Expat, Well said! I think the Thais show respect to the Christian missionaries and welcome them but the funny thing is you don't see the muslim missionary folk out here much? Maybe they'd get chased down the streets more than a Christian would? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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