Do U Guys Often Get Harrassed By Hilltribe Women At Night Bazaar?

[Blinky Bill]

I just say 'mai yeow' and move on when they approach. give one bhatt and more will come!!

Just being my pedantic self after a refreshing holiday but why would you tell the approaching vendor to 'Not urinate'?

Blinky mate - good to see you back and I notice you are still taking the piss out of the other members of the forum

CB

Hey CB. Just can't help myself mate......but Ill have to be a little careful from here on in as the weather is warming up and the ice is getting thinner.

I wish I'd bought a Mayan tunic and could wear it here......I tried one on once, and my lady friend said I didn't have good looking legs any more.

I wish you'd bought one as well Pee Bee, love to see you downtown clad in your tunic just so long as you shaved your legs!!

[uptheos]

The missionary James Fraser actually developed a writing system for Lisu in 1915.

There was also a pinyin-based system developed in 1957 as well, for Lisus still living in China, but apparently it has not caught on.

In 1992, the Chinese government officially recognized the Fraser system and have encouraged its use.

It is quite possible that the Lisu groups living in Thailand have not had much contact with these writing systems though, I don't know.

Quite right and I know about the Chinese adopting it. I don't think there is much use of this system in Thailand though and I have heard of people trying it unsuccessfully, including my anthrapolgist friend. That is why she had to develop her own language over a period of years, whilst living with the Lisu. I understand from her that the sounds vary greatly from one person to another and sometimes when you think you've got it cracked, you then have to try and pick out the words whilst the speaker is chewing betle nut, which becomes a completely different sound.

[Crow Boy]

The missionary James Fraser actually developed a writing system for Lisu in 1915.

There was also a pinyin-based system developed in 1957 as well, for Lisus still living in China, but apparently it has not caught on.

In 1992, the Chinese government officially recognized the Fraser system and have encouraged its use.

It is quite possible that the Lisu groups living in Thailand have not had much contact with these writing systems though, I don't know.

There have been several writing systems introduced to most of the hill tribe groups, mainly by missionaries. The most wide spread one is with the Karen people who to a great degree adopted Christianity and consequently received education and as an offshoot the written language. For the Akha, Lisu,Lahu, Hmong, Mien etc only a few took up Christianity and there is a much lower take on the written language. None of these language traditionaly use a written form. The Chinese hill tribe groups in parts of China where they are common such as Khumming use a Chinese base system for their language but that is a continuing process of language in China where the Chinese character for a word in Cantonese is the same as Yunanese is the same as for Mandarin. If each language group read the character they will say it in its own language and the spoken word would not be understood by other groups. In China this make the written language universal.

In my partner's village there a couple of Thai Yai who came down from China, they read and write Chinese and transfer the words into Lisu. Lisu however is a limited language in respect to the number and variety of words. Many of them speak in a combination of Thai and Lisu because there isn't a Lisu word for what they are talking about. With the ones that had extensive interactin with the Chinese KMT troops they use much more Chinese and it can make it hard for the more isolated villagers to understand.

CB

[Crow Boy]

I understand from her that the sounds vary greatly from one person to another and sometimes when you think you've got it cracked, you then have to try and pick out the words whilst the speaker is chewing betle nut, which becomes a completely different sound.

Tell me about it - my g/f's mother eats that stuff all day and I can't understand a word she says because she is speaking around a big glob of betel.

sigh

CB

[LeungKen]

I understand from her that the sounds vary greatly from one person to another and sometimes when you think you've got it cracked, you then have to try and pick out the words whilst the speaker is chewing betle nut, which becomes a completely different sound.

Tell me about it - my g/f's mother eats that stuff all day and I can't understand a word she says because she is speaking around a big glob of betel.

sigh

CB

I suspect there are a few in the various Hill Tribes whose sense of direction is somewhat lacking as there appears to be quite a few "Lisu" walking on the beaches in Phuket....

and due to the betel are having problems asking for directions home..

[chanchao]

Crow Boy - Interesting post and one I agree with. It's just like a franchise, find willing sellers of any ethnicity, kit them out with costume, tray and frog and send them off at one minute intervals. However a great photo opportunity for first timers in Chiangmai.

I recognize it's an appealing concept for the cynically inclined to believe that "someone isn't really xyz, it's jusst forr duhh touristssss".

However, nobody is kitting anyone out as something they're not. Most Thais wouldn't want to be caught dead in hilltribe garb, well, unless it's some silly photo op in a resort for Bangkok people who's ethnicity is never seriously in doubt doing that. Heck, even hilltribe people of one tribe don't want to be kitted out as another, and especially not as Akha.

It's really quite simple: You're an Akha person, you live on a cold muddy mountain with F all money or prospects, you go to Chiang Mai to sell stuff.. It really isn't that strange of a concept.

I'm interested in your Lisu connection. Are you aware of Doi Laan (Lisu village) at the very top of Doi Wawi, just past Mae Suay in Chiangrai province? I have spent a lot of time there with an Anthrapolgist, who lived with the Lisu for 8 years, is fluent having developed her own Lisu language purely by listening to sounds and having them interpreted into Thai by a Thai speaking Lisu woman. As you know there is no written language in Lisu. Thankfully Doi Laan is too far up for tourists, so it remains 'natural'.

I've been there. But it remains 'natural'.. in that tourists don't go there much.. I wouldn't call it that natural because of the serious deforestation there. Actually only a handful of areas get like 95% of the tourist traffic; it's mostly a logistics decision: "The Tribes" need to be close to other stuff, like waterfalls, elephants, bamboo rafts etc. As soon as a village is not strategically located in a tourism sense, it gets few visitors.

I recall it when it's main crop began with O, but they were persuaded that tomatoes were a better option, so now they slog all through the mud and dirt for months and then get shafted by the big boys and have to sell crops as low as 1 or 2 baht kilo at times, coz they often don't have the means or knowledge to shift them.

Hilltribe life sure aint easy!

Yup, I think we can agree on that.

Edited November 30, 2007 by chanchao

[Johpa]

I've been there. But it remains 'natural'.. in that tourists don't go there much.. I wouldn't call it that natural because of the serious deforestation there. Actually only a handful of areas get like 95% of the tourist traffic; it's mostly a logistics decision: "The Tribes" need to be close to other stuff, like waterfalls, elephants, bamboo rafts etc. As soon as a village is not strategically located in a tourism sense, it gets few visitors.

Every highland village is what it is and not a single one is unnatural. Sure we might nostalgically lament some imagined romantic notion of a bucolic past that may or may not have existed, just as I lament the loss of Samui or even Chiang Mai of yesteryear. The degree to which a highland village has been impacted by "modernism" is usually a function of the proximity of all weather roads and schools.

Most younger hill folks have attended Thai language preschools, and have gone on to attend a Thai language or Kham Muang speaking elementary school. Most are conversant in basic Thai. In areas of high ethnic diversity they might also speak some of the neighboring languages (they are not dialects). When I first came to Thailand many years ago, Lahu was the lingua franca around the Chiang Mai/Chiang Rai region surrounding the Kok River, but it has been Thai for decades now. And of course most minority people in Thailand are going to borrow Thai words for vocabulary that does not exist in their native language, just as that ultimate bastard language, English, borrowed from French and Latin. Perhaps then English is also a "limited" language.

As far as the tourist traffic, what is most desired is close proximity to other villages of differing ethnic flavors. There are relatively few areas where you can hike a few kilometers each day for a few days and encounter at least one new ethnic group each day. And these routes are fairly regulated by the Chiang Mai trekking association that carefully choreographs treks so that they do not collide. Having a waterfall, well waterfalls are pretty darn common, rafting or elephants are just extra bonuses. There are still areas around Mae Hong Song and Khun Yuam where there are very few tourists as you can walk for days and only encounter Karen or Shan villages.

And there are now loads of "tok doi" (a reference to an old Thai comedy film "Karieng Tok Doi"), hill folks who have come down the hills and live in Chiang Mai . Many speak fluent Kham Muang with little trace of an accent. They rapidly assimilate towards a full Thai identity. They are not selling trinkets at the night market although some highland women and men do sell their bodies at the bar-cum-brothels of Chiang Mai.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I bought one of those frogs once, but I got mine at a sunday market in good old aberdeen - the vendor told me they were made in Africa, but I knew better...

[Puwa]

I just say 'mai yeow' and move on when they approach.

So in addition to trying to sell you things, they try to pee on you too?

[Paagai]

to deflect attention away from the tribals at NB, so thread does not turn into some sort of racist rant opportunity.

There is also the children hawkers selling garlands or flowers. The kids I have a great deal of pity and sympathy for, sometimes will buy other times not.

If child stand in front of me rubbing stomach indicating hunger will buy them a meal from the bar for them to enjoy. There is one child flower hawker that I ALWAYS will buy from. Child is a deaf mute. Will always purchase remaining stock of flowers. since i am a regular customer the child knows what the deal is. Go home go to sleep where children belong at that time of night. Never disappointed me, never to be seen again that night with more flowers to sell.

For those doubters out there, have verified with bar personel the child is indeed deaf and mute.

If its the boy I think you mean he's now walking around wearing a "stop the Child Sex trade" T shirt, which is kinda ironic (Top marks to whoever gave it to him though!). I've know this kid for several years, he must live/doss around there as he's always around in the day time too (I used to live at NB). Always buy him a coke but rarely buy his flowers, we've also bought him sandals when he's walking around barefoot but they never seem to last.

He's growing up too, about 11 now I think, which has a down side: a few months back, when I hadn't been there for a while, he comes running up smiling and tries his new trick of rubbing his crotch on my leg. NO NO NO! he got a very sharp rebuke........its very sad but you know exactly what he's being groomed for (if he isn't already doing it). And, the perverts who go down there looking for young kids get away with it as everyone turns a blind eye (especially the bar owners who do very nicely thank you).

Then there's the women who carry a baby around for special effect. Pure exploitation and totally wrong IMHO, and again, nobody does anything about it

[cm-happy]

If it is the same one, I'm very sad to know that he's now graduated into phase two of life on the streets and survival. Have never seen him do the things that you mention to anyone. Wonder if its possible to get him into the special school here in CM that caters to deaf and mute students and get away from all that crap.

[kes]

I've started carrying my own frog, so when they start doin' the 'frog thing'; I'll pull mine out, and do it back at 'em.

Confuses the krap out of 'em.

[Ricardo]

I've started carrying my own frog, so when they start doin' the 'frog thing'; I'll pull mine out, and do it back at 'em.

Confuses the krap out of 'em.

Perhaps yours is really a toad ?

[T_Dog]

I think it is pretty cool that the Hill Tribe culture is here and that many old traditions in Thailand are being preserved. It is one of the many things that makes this country so rich. The first time I was in CM, I was fascinated to see the Hill Tribe folks integrating with the shoppers at the Night Bizarre. Some tourists would never see a part of the culture if they weren't there. Sometimes I see them massing at the parks by the CM Zoo at 5 AM after selling all over the city. It is a tough way to make a living. Some of them have some great jewelery to sell, and when you see the Thais looking at their wares, take a look yourself. The baskets that the Akha make to carry their wares are very cool, and they will sell them to you as well. It is part of life here, so relax and enjoy it.

[malcy]

you can buy STUN GUNS in the night bazarre now im not trying to encourage and i certainly don't condone this behaviour but life really is to short to stand around trying to be polite with these people whilst sweating your ass off.

[Donnyboy]

I've started carrying my own frog, so when they start doin' the 'frog thing'; I'll pull mine out, and do it back at 'em.

Confuses the krap out of 'em.

then you can say "kee mai ow" not "mai yeow"

[Donnyboy]

I think it is pretty cool that the Hill Tribe culture is here and that many old traditions in Thailand are being preserved. It is one of the many things that makes this country so rich. The first time I was in CM, I was fascinated to see the Hill Tribe folks integrating with the shoppers at the Night Bizarre. Some tourists would never see a part of the culture if they weren't there. Sometimes I see them massing at the parks by the CM Zoo at 5 AM after selling all over the city. It is a tough way to make a living. Some of them have some great jewelery to sell, and when you see the Thais looking at their wares, take a look yourself. The baskets that the Akha make to carry their wares are very cool, and they will sell them to you as well. It is part of life here, so relax and enjoy it.

yip, my thoughts as well. Im down at the NB quite often and still fascinated by them.