Ex Military Serve In Combat?

[cm-happy]

TV members. Have you ever served in the armed forces of your respective countries in a combat zone? Have you come to grips with that experience and been able to forgive and forget your old adversaries?

Served in the US Navy during the sixties for 2 hitches during the Vietnam war. And for the most part have let it go. Although I have absolutely no desire to visit as a tourist. Maybe easier for me as not a POW.

Thing that prompted this thread is another thread where a member mentioned the Jap Burma railway and the suffering of the pows. Some smart mouth said was so long ago, forgive and forget. Maybe some things can NEVER be forgotten or forgiven based upon individual experiences.

[nidge]

I was in the Falklands, (shortly after the main war but before things had properly settled down). A couple of months ago i met an Argentinian who was one soldiers planning to attack Port Stanley. It was strange to talk to him at first and i could feel an air of apprehension between us. After a few minutes talking it was almost like we were best friends. Governments start the war, we are only little chess pieces playing the same game on different sides of the fence.

[Prakanong]

TV members. Have you ever served in the armed forces of your respective countries in a combat zone? Have you come to grips with that experience and been able to forgive and forget your old adversaries?

Served in the US Navy during the sixties for 2 hitches during the Vietnam war. And for the most part have let it go. Although I have absolutely no desire to visit as a tourist. Maybe easier for me as not a POW.

Thing that prompted this thread is another thread where a member mentioned the Jap Burma railway and the suffering of the pows. Some smart mouth said was so long ago, forgive and forget. Maybe some things can NEVER be forgotten or forgiven based upon individual experiences.

I do not think you can equate the Japanese atrocities against the allies to the Vietnam War.

It was mostly one way from the Japanese while it could be argued the Americans committed more atrocities against the Vietnamese including civilians.

The Vietnamese were basically involved in fighting to free their own country from colonialism - the Americans hould have sympathised with them - Americans did basically the same back in the 18th Century and declared their own rightful independence.

From all accounts the Vietnamese while not forgetting the war just want to get on with their lives and build their country - American (or a vociferous minority) seems it can not forget their defeat and it appears in Presidential election campaigns and distortions of history in speeches by a cowardly President who avoided going but has no qualms to send other americans to their deaths in a needless war in Iraq

[Goshawk]

I'm eternally greatfull to all the conflicts of the past, especially to Vietnam & WW2

Without them we would never have got to see great movies like Apocolypse Now, Bridge On The River Kwai and also dudes like John Rambo in action..!!

can't wait to see his latest... (he's living in Bangkok you know)

(was gonna post the trailer from Youtube, but it's rather bloody)

[Naam]

TV members. Have you ever served in the armed forces of your respective countries in a combat zone? Have you come to grips with that experience and been able to forgive and forget your old adversaries?

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR <deleted> MIND OR JUST JOKING Cm-Happy? until this very day i hope and pray that the former adversaries and their families are forgiving ME for the cruel and inhuman actions in which i participated!

[meom]

Correct Naam; I've been told some of the Dutch are still looking for their bicycles

[Chloe82]

Yes, i wonder if the people of My Lai or Co Luy can forgive Lieutenant Calley and his band of merry men. indiscriminate execution of men and women, children and babies along with rape, sexual assault and other brutality against the victims.

Chloe.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Chloe82

[howtoescape]

Can see the anti America brigade getting their torches lit up for this one.

It is a very interesting subject if people cant write anything productive about forgiveness or lack of it dont bother.

11 years ago I was attacked and beaten for 2 minutes by a prick with nunchuckers, leaving me in hospital for a month, I have had to have 7 operations on the msot serious of my injuries, this for no other reason then the fact i was walking down the street.

I'd never forgive this person and would quite happily torture him tomorrow if i new i would only get a small prison sentence.

[meom]

Who knows Chloe. The Vietnamese were no saints either so I guess brutality went both ways. War is not supposed to be nice.

[Prakanong]

Who knows Chloe. The Vietnamese were no saints either so I guess brutality went both ways. War is not supposed to be nice.

But the Vietnamese were not attacking American civilian women and children in their own country while saying they were saving them!

Qualitative difference methinks!

Forgive anf forget - many Americans seem to not be able too - they still rant and rave plus publish books about how they could have won - some even still say they should have nuked Vietnam - <deleted>?

[meom]

I guess you're right Prakanong although I don't see how that would make a difference to the victims on both sides.

[Prakanong]

I guess you're right Prakanong although I don't see how that would make a difference to the victims on both sides.

Yes it would not make a difference to victims on both sides.

It would be nice though if we could learn from history but it seems not - I did find Bush twisiting the history of the war's in S E Asia to justify Iraq a bit much.

Every Vietnam vet I have spoken to while in Asia has been a decent bloke - both Aus and US. I do not think I have come across a gung ho one!

[Gimbo]

I was lucky enough that my country did not participate in any wars when I was wearing that green stuff. Did some peacekeeping and peace enforcement missions though. And wrote this poem about it. Feel the same way abaout that part of my life now...

The Peacekeeper

You saw them die on TV

Then you got your orders

To go there yourself

You went

You said goodbye to your loved ones

Walked aboard the plane

It lifted from the ground

You fell asleep

You walked out of the plane

Smelled the air

Looked around

At a foreign country

You loaded your rifle

Hoping you would never have to fire it at

someone

Lifted your pack

Boarded the transport

You tried to take it in

The burned houses

The litter in the streets

On the way to your new home away from

home

You arrived at your base

Got your kit stowed away

Went on your first patrol

Heart pounding a little extra

You met them then,

The people getting killed on TV

Smiling at you

Spitting at you

You did your job

In the evening you kicked in a door, and

ransacked a house looking for weapons

You found them in the newborn baby’s

cradle

You did your job

You sat in an observation tower for

twelve hours during the midday heat

Watching the fields so that the farmers

could bring in the harvest in safety

In the evening the farmers threw stones

at you, and threatened to kill you

You did your job

You saw your best friend die

He stepped on a mine placed there the

night before

The next day you escorted the killers’

children to school

You did your job

You called your loved ones on the phone

on Christmas Eve

You told them you missed them, that you

wished you were with them

Then you picked up your rifle, and went

on another patrol

You did your job

You did it for six months, a year, forever

Then you packed your kit

Got on the transport

Fell asleep

Your plane landed in your own country

Your loved ones waited at the airport

Waited for you

You came home…changed...

Edited December 6, 2007 by Gimbo

[nidge]

Thanks Gimbo, well written. Goosebumps now.

[cm-happy]

Yes, i wonder if the people of My Lai or Co Luy can forgive Lieutenant Calley and his band of merry men. indiscriminate execution of men and women, children and babies along with rape, sexual assault and other brutality against the victims.

Chloe.

Aging flower child??? or protester looking for another cause?

[paulsmithson]

Wow every time I visist a bar I sem to run into a ex SAS man. Must have been a bloody big regiment at one time eh. And so few posts here?

[cm-happy]

TV members. Have you ever served in the armed forces of your respective countries in a combat zone? Have you come to grips with that experience and been able to forgive and forget your old adversaries?

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR <deleted> MIND OR JUST JOKING Cm-Happy? until this very day i hope and pray that the former adversaries and their families are forgiving ME for the cruel and inhuman actions in which i participated!

There's also THAT aspect of things. Apparently you have not come to grips with things or made peace with yourself. Hope you do so soon.

[Gimbo]

Wow every time I visist a bar I sem to run into a ex SAS man. Must have been a bloody big regiment at one time eh. And so few posts here?

This one was written by Vietnam War veteran and Author Jim Northrup a while back. Recoemnd his books, they rae hillarious....but here goes:

Wannabe

I ran into one last week

I could tell he was a phony

he didn't have the eyes

Was he a door gunner or a Lurp?

No, he was a Green Beret, River Boat

Seal, Ranger, Recon Marine

I listened to his story

he talked about the jungles, the rice

paddies, the firefights, the weapons

I listened

He talked about mosquitoes, snakes

gooks and the NVA

I listened

I listened until I realized we had

both seen the same Vietnam War movie

Nice try, fella

Don't steal my war

And for the record, I was fixing phone lines for the army, and by no way shape or form was I "special" something. he he

[Chloe82]

Yes, i wonder if the people of My Lai or Co Luy can forgive Lieutenant Calley and his band of merry men. indiscriminate execution of men and women, children and babies along with rape, sexual assault and other brutality against the victims.

Chloe.

Aging flower child??? or protester looking for another cause?

Just asking an honest question, neither a flower child or protester.

Do honesty and awkward question's offend you?

[pointofview]

I think it is easy to forgive an enemy chosen by the state - impossible to forgive the evil elite who sacrifice the common ignorant man (both sides) for their own evil agenda

[ZukiSuzuki]

Thing that prompted this thread is another thread where a member mentioned the Jap Burma railway and the suffering of the pows.

It’s good to see you guy’s are still allowed to us offensive derogatory ethnic slurs on this forum, just so long as it’s not in reference to a race dear to any of the other members hearts.

Zuki.

[pointofview]

I dont see any ethnic slur - the japanese (according to a widely accepted version of historical facts) commited terrible acts or cruelty during ww2. Americans are responsible for attrocitys today - and will be judged accordingly. Ofcourse its not personal, but there are obviously some dangerous psychopaths in all societys who use the oppurtunity of conflict to act aas they wish.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Thing that prompted this thread is another thread where a member mentioned the Jap Burma railway and the suffering of the pows.

It's good to see you guy's are still allowed to us offensive derogatory ethnic slurs on this forum, just so long as it's not in reference to a race dear to any of the other members hearts.

Zuki.

According to Wikipedia: The term Jap is used in English as an abbreviation of the word "Japanese." Today it is usually used as an ethnic slur, though English speaking countries differ in the degree they consider the term offensive. Most people of Japanese descent in these countries consider it offensive.

Full article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap

[ZukiSuzuki]

I dont see any ethnic slur - the japanese (according to a widely accepted version of historical facts) commited terrible acts or cruelty during ww2. Americans are responsible for attrocitys today - and will be judged accordingly. Ofcourse its not personal, but there are obviously some dangerous psychopaths in all societys who use the oppurtunity of conflict to act aas they wish.

Then read my post again, pay some special atention to the word i high lighted in the OP, then go and educate yourself about the ethnic slur that was used.

[jaiyenjohn]

Well, I never served in the military, but my father did, as an electronic warfare officer on a B-52 during Vietnam. He died in the service (somewhat ironically in a plane crash during a re-supply mission to a base in England after coming through Vietnam without a scratch).

I've read the letters that he wrote my mother, telling her about the conflict he had dropping bombs on civilians both in Vietnam and Laos. He knew he was doing something profoundly wrong, and yet did it anyway. Which is a position I imagine a lot of people found themselves in during that war. It's something I'm glad I've never had to face.

Fast forward 30 years later, his son is traveling through the remote villages Laos, passing by UXO still left behind from bombs his father perhaps dropped. There are still villages that use the aluminum external fuel tanks the b-52's dropped as boats. And there is no animosity there, just people getting on with their lives as best they can, and are very friendly and curious about Americans. Of course, Laos does seem somewhat like a country left behind the rest of the world, and perhaps doesn't have the luxury of intense reflection when you're functioning only at the subsistence level.

In Vietnam itself, everyone I met was very friendly to the Americans, and there is sort of a perverse bond that the older men have with the USA, something like having gone through hel_l with each other even as enemies still made a strong connection. More than one Vietnamese man told me that on the scale of wars, the American war was nothing compared to the 2000 years they've been fighting the Chinese. When I mention that my father fought in the war but died while in the military, that also generated a level of understanding between cultures. Having someone close to you die in a war is something that anyone from any culture can find as a common reference point.

So from my own perspective, at least from our ill-intentioned forays into South East Asia, that there is forgiveness there, and the troubles are very much bygones from the general population. Of course, that's not saying some individuals don't feel that way, but as a whole Vietnam is looking forward to its future relationships with the USA, not dwelling on the past.

[kennkate]

FORGIVE BUT NEVER FORGET

and for the record I spent 9 years in The Royal air force 3 in the middle East

[nidge]

Thing that prompted this thread is another thread where a member mentioned the Jap Burma railway and the suffering of the pows.

It's good to see you guy's are still allowed to us offensive derogatory ethnic slurs on this forum, just so long as it's not in reference to a race dear to any of the other members hearts.

Zuki.

According to Wikipedia: The term Jap is used in English as an abbreviation of the word "Japanese." Today it is usually used as an ethnic slur, though English speaking countries differ in the degree they consider the term offensive. Most people of Japanese descent in these countries consider it offensive.

Full article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap

Wikipedia has many racial Slur words.

Paki is a good one. When i lived in the UK it was not PC to use this word. Then i started to find Pakistani nationals describing themselves or their friends as Pakis!

Paki = short for Pakistani

Jap = Short for Japanese

Should the residents of Great Britain be offended when rude foreigners describe them as Brits? Or only when the term Great Brits is used?

Either way you feel, it's not relevant to this thread as it is about war and war more often than not happens to be racist!

[pointofview]

I dont see any ethnic slur - the japanese (according to a widely accepted version of historical facts) commited terrible acts or cruelty during ww2. Americans are responsible for attrocitys today - and will be judged accordingly. Ofcourse its not personal, but there are obviously some dangerous psychopaths in all societys who use the oppurtunity of conflict to act aas they wish.

Then read my post again, pay some special atention to the word i high lighted in the OP, then go and educate yourself about the ethnic slur that was used.

Jap, brit, ozzy, scott, etc. etc. You think i should educate myself

[ZukiSuzuki]

Well, I never served in the military, but my father did, as an electronic warfare officer on a B-52 during Vietnam. He died in the service (somewhat ironically in a plane crash during a re-supply mission to a base in England after coming through Vietnam without a scratch).

I've read the letters that he wrote my mother, telling her about the conflict he had dropping bombs on civilians both in Vietnam and Laos. He knew he was doing something profoundly wrong, and yet did it anyway. Which is a position I imagine a lot of people found themselves in during that war. It's something I'm glad I've never had to face.

Fast forward 30 years later, his son is traveling through the remote villages Laos, passing by UXO still left behind from bombs his father perhaps dropped. There are still villages that use the aluminum external fuel tanks the b-52's dropped as boats. And there is no animosity there, just people getting on with their lives as best they can, and are very friendly and curious about Americans. Of course, Laos does seem somewhat like a country left behind the rest of the world, and perhaps doesn't have the luxury of intense reflection when you're functioning only at the subsistence level.

In Vietnam itself, everyone I met was very friendly to the Americans, and there is sort of a perverse bond that the older men have with the USA, something like having gone through hel_l with each other even as enemies still made a strong connection. More than one Vietnamese man told me that on the scale of wars, the American war was nothing compared to the 2000 years they've been fighting the Chinese. When I mention that my father fought in the war but died while in the military, that also generated a level of understanding between cultures. Having someone close to you die in a war is something that anyone from any culture can find as a common reference point.

So from my own perspective, at least from our ill-intentioned forays into South East Asia, that there is forgiveness there, and the troubles are very much bygones from the general population. Of course, that's not saying some individuals don't feel that way, but as a whole Vietnam is looking forward to its future relationships with the USA, not dwelling on the past.

Hi John-

Just wanted to say, Great post, thanks for the very personal thoughts and insight.

Cheers.

Zuki.

[ZukiSuzuki]

I dont see any ethnic slur - the japanese (according to a widely accepted version of historical facts) commited terrible acts or cruelty during ww2. Americans are responsible for attrocitys today - and will be judged accordingly. Ofcourse its not personal, but there are obviously some dangerous psychopaths in all societys who use the oppurtunity of conflict to act aas they wish.

Then read my post again, pay some special atention to the word i high lighted in the OP, then go and educate yourself about the ethnic slur that was used.

Jap, brit, ozzy, scott, etc. etc. You think i should educate myself

Do some research and your ignorance will become apparent to you.