Civility On The Chiang Mai Forum

[Mapguy]

I believe there is a regretable lack of maturity and civility on this forum, and I would like to encourage people who post on it to value the opportunity more seriously.

I have been "lurking," if I have the lingo down pat, on this site for a number of months. Basically new to Chiang Mai, I have always been interested in useful, interesting and fun information about the town, and some "back and forth" about issues is both enjoyable and productive. I have found some of that here, but I have found much more dross. Much more dross. And, too often, a distinct lack of couth.

This forum seems to have become a playground for a number of users in which to try to be humorous. Too many feel it an appropriate place to start what would elsewhere be considered a "private conversation." These conversations often get off topic and even more regretably turn into elementary school pissing contests with or without inane "emoticons." Worse, some of this turns into real "flaming."

I have gone with the flow for a long time and not complained. A few weeks ago, I happened to try out another geographical area forum on thaivisa and was startled to see a remarkably well-organized, well-administered site on which one basically finds intelligent, mature postings. Differences of opinion? Sure. Some ill-founded information? Sure. But the contrast is startling. It made this forum look like "romper room." So, here I am encouraging all to consider how useful this sort of communication can be and use it well.

[dee123]

...I find if there is merit in a post most posters treat it as such but unfortuneately for you if you require" civillity" without merit you will just have to accept it takes all sorts to make this world........p.s. carry-on-lurking

Edited December 10, 2007 by dee123

[meadish_sweetball]

Please feel free to report any posts you find objectionable under the forum rules and we'll do our best to take care of it.

By the way, we are sorry that not all our local forums are as polite and to the point as the Pattaya forum.

[PeaceBlondie]

If anything, I've noticed a marked improvement in civility lately, overall, on ThaiVisa, and I can think of at least one Chiang Mai poster who's contributed to it (not a moderator!).

[Tywais]

You have to consider the expat population density in the different geographical areas you are referring to. The higher population centers will have a more 'diverse' group and as such the same type of interaction and 'potential' for things getting heated are obviously higher. I don't know which other community forum you are referring to, but from my viewpoint, as a moderator and watching all the forums, the Chiangmai forum is one of the better behaved of the groups even though it is one of the larger member bases. Bangkok and Pattaya probably the largest and reflects in the posting counts and diversity of posts and styles.

[Tywais]

By the way, we are sorry that not all our local forums are as polite and to the point as the Pattaya forum.

I was going to say that, but decided to leave it to someone else. Bound to have these comparisons.

[skycop51]

Now I have just been ignored. Just wanted to engage in basic topics etc. I too do not care for BSing etc. But again I just generally get innored. Maybe because I am older which I do not hide. I am coming to CM hopefully to retire if its civil and safe. I have a Thai wife and we just want a little peace and to enjoy the people, not the bars and any of that scene.

I do hope we both can find more of what we need on these forums. I have not as of yet.

William aka skycop51

I believe there is a regretable lack of maturity and civility on this forum, and I would like to encourage people who post on it to value the opportunity more seriously.

I have been "lurking," if I have the lingo down pat, on this site for a number of months. Basically new to Chiang Mai, I have always been interested in useful, interesting and fun information about the town, and some "back and forth" about issues is both enjoyable and productive. I have found some of that here, but I have found much more dross. Much more dross. And, too often, a distinct lack of couth.

This forum seems to have become a playground for a number of users in which to try to be humorous. Too many feel it an appropriate place to start what would elsewhere be considered a "private conversation." These conversations often get off topic and even more regretably turn into elementary school pissing contests with or without inane "emoticons." Worse, some of this turns into real "flaming."

I have gone with the flow for a long time and not complained. A few weeks ago, I happened to try out another geographical area forum on thaivisa and was startled to see a remarkably well-organized, well-administered site on which one basically finds intelligent, mature postings. Differences of opinion? Sure. Some ill-founded information? Sure. But the contrast is startling. It made this forum look like "romper room." So, here I am encouraging all to consider how useful this sort of communication can be and use it well.

[Crow Boy]

I have been "lurking," if I have the lingo down pat, on this site for a number of months. Basically new to Chiang Mai, I have always been interested in useful, interesting and fun information about the town, and some "back and forth" about issues is both enjoyable and productive. I have found some of that here, but I have found much more dross. Much more dross. And, too often, a distinct lack of couth.

You make some interesting points and yes there is quite a lot of banter on this forum, partly because of the fact that a large percentage of the members know eachother on and off the forum and consequently have built up a basis of understanding.

Yes I agree that there is some dross on the forum, how many times have there been threads about ribs and burgers? I would make the point though that you criticised the level of conversation yet you have lurked on this thread for some time. If you wish to discuss things of interest to you why not start threads about things that interest you. You will find that there are many members with a large amount of knowledge about a wide range of topics. But please - don't ask who makes the best pizza in Chiang Mai

Welcome to the forum and Chiang Mai.

CB

[Ricardo]

For me, one of the joys of the Chiang Mai forum, is that we have a few members who are real characters. OK they may sometimes joke back & forth, which may leave Newbies feeling a bit left out, but they do add colour & life !

I don't often see anyone being derogatory, except where a troll is suspected, and unfortunately someone who is very new to Thailand can look awfully similar to a troll. We are all aware that the mods can, and do, award 'holidays' or even 'transportation', for truly bad behaviour, which adds an incentive to be polite.

View the forum as a bunch of friendly expats 'chewing the fat' over a few beers, rather than sipping tea at an embassy-function, and make allowances for the odd 'off-day' or some poor person who desperately needs to let off steam, which any expat may sometimes need to do.

Lastly, welcome to the forum, and please post more ! The forum is only what we all make of it, for good or bad, and the more the merrier !

[searcher22]

the wealth of information to be found on this forum far outweighs the occasional lapse into incivility. The majority of contributors to this forum are civil. This forum is a reflection of it members, and not all of them are choir boys. If a particular thread offends you, stop reading it. Moderators should just keep an eye out for "repeat offenders" who contribute nothing.

[Dustoff]

“Many picnics manage without this sophistication, but we like to be couth and feel that the delicacies of gracious living enhance the chances”

The best, I think, that we can hope for is to serve by example in public forums in a developing nation which draws people from every background from career professionals to scammers to those perhaps even on the run from the law in their own countries or their own psychological distresses.

And for those who do not pay attention, whack 'em on the pee-pee!

[Mapguy]

How have I aroused the interest of four "super moderators?!"

I figured I would come across as stuffy, and I apologize for that. But I'd like to make a few additional points. I don't, I regret, agree that the "standard" (another stuffy term) of contributions is terrific. This forum should indeed be THE spot to get Chiang Mai info. Obviously, contributions will vary. I know that. And some people have a more enjoyable sense of humor (Especially hard in text messages!) than others. I'd be delighted to stand a round, but not here.

Fundamental information is lacking in some basic categories. Some posters have done yeoman service to try to get such things organized. I very much applaud those with the patience to point out existing threads, for example, but I think one of the reasons very important threads to living in Chiang Mai are not as useful as they could be is that people who inquire get put off by the banter and worse on this forum. If one is told to "go elsewhere," as has already been suggested to me in this thread, then I think that is a bit sad. This could be THE place to go.

[dee123]

I view it similar to politicians having a debate.....who do not have to like each other and come from completely different backgrounds and circumstances but at the end of the day are prepared to shake hands and get on.....

[chanchao]

I figured I would come across as stuffy, and I apologize for that. But I'd like to make a few additional points. I don't, I regret, agree that the "standard" (another stuffy term) of contributions is terrific. This forum should indeed be THE spot to get Chiang Mai info.

If you know of a better one then I'd like to hear about it.

There's a whole lot wrong with Thaivisa at the moment, but the one thing that stands out I think is the Chiang Mai forum. Don't believe me? Try it. Ask a question; any question. I absolutely guarantee that it will get answered.

Depending on the nature of the question it may also result in some chatting & banter, but such is the spice of life. In the end though, your question got answered, and isn't that what it's all about?

So far you've made two meta-posts, i.e. posts about other people's posts.. How about just diving in and join the party/discussion..

Obviously, contributions will vary. I know that. And some people have a more enjoyable sense of humor (Especially hard in text messages!) than others. I'd be delighted to stand a round, but not here.

Well, that's cool too. Again if you know of a better place for CHIANG MAI info then I'd like to hear it. (I know plenty better places for select topics such as travel in Thailand, construction in Thailand, nightly entertainment in Thailand and so on. But if you ever needed to know anything about Chiang Mai, THIS is the place.

Fundamental information is lacking in some basic categories.

Well, it's a FORUM, not an encyclopedia.. The aim is not to create a library of facts. That reminds me, someone should start a Chiang Mai-wiki.

This could be THE place to go.

This IS the place to go. Keeping in mind of course that nothing can be everything to everyone.

[Dustoff]

..Apologize for 'stuffy'.. Get more 'stuffy'..

.."Fundamental information is lacking in some basic categories"

Well, golly gee...

Make maps, do you? Require accurate information?

Have learned yet to separate the useful information from the chaff?

Do you have meaningful questions or only criticism?

So many questions, so few answers, eh?

[Tywais]

How have I aroused the interest of four "super moderators?!"

Nothing to do with our moderator status. We are Chiangmai residents and would most likely responded regardless of our forum positions. If all the forum was for was an information gathering and storage facility, it would be very sterile. The 'banter' gives a feeling to the place and humanizes it. It would be pretty rare that a question asked doesn't get an answer to it in this 'community' forum, the operative word I believe.

[cm-happy]

Mapguy, I must disagree with you!

If anything IMHO this is one of the more civil,polite, couth forums.

May I suggest you try lurking about the Pattaya or Genral forum. Think that would be an eye opener for you.

About fundamental info for basic catagores missing. If you anything specific in mind, what a wonderful opportuniy for you

to originate a few posts and possibly fill the void, ie "Does any one know ....................."?.

edited for clarity

Edited December 10, 2007 by cm-happy

[realthaideal]

Well....

Where to start Mapman? I think best to echo the other ppl who are in favor of most of what is thrown about in the CM Forum. I have pride in what we've all got here. And I'd build on that further to say I'm proud to be a PARTICIPATING member of TV. I have met others in the past who say they prefer to lurk and watch what unfolds etc. But the point is that this is your resource and your community. And you will get out of it what you put into it. Much like the critics in the bleachers analogy, I say if you wish to see it go some direction or have a certain type of content, do not criticize (especially a first post which is just asking for it from other TV members who also have pride in their community, though I will give you that it was a tempered and well thought out post), but rather contribute. Too much can't be said about leading by example. It is yours to make of it what you will. I for one find and give out all kinds of information here all the time. Very happy for this group of ppl we have here.

And lastly, you give vague criticisms of something here or there that is in the past. I don't know what you mean or what you're referring to. Best to deal with things as an active member right away than let it build up and try to start something out of a comment nobody else remembers.

Ok, not lastly. I'll tell you this too.... I came to know quite a few individ's on TV thru their comments, banter, humor, and information. Later at an event here or there - or even contacting one or two because they seemed like ppl I'd get along with - I've come to make some great friends. In a couple cases I've also found out that I already knew a couple rather outspoken members here but not by avatar, nor did they know I was me here either. This always makes for good fun when you figure it out. But we couldn't ever do that and get to know each other if we had persisted in being lurkers.

So, welcome.....I'm looking forward to your constructive contributions to the forum.

[Mapguy]

"Fair enough' to all those who suggest I should be a contributor, not a critic. I guess I have had to decide whether this was the right place to contribute something or not. I haven't been certain of that. And, more important, I hope to have something useful to share. Last, maybe I am just shy!

To those suggesting comparisons of this board to other "worse" sites, too bad for those fora and the people who read them!

To those loving the "flavor" of this Chiang Mai site, I agree that Chiang Mai has MANY flavors. I like that a lot, but I also believe some people are simply turned off by what they find here on this site and thus end up under-represented here. They just don't come back, let alone contribute. Should this forum just be a "chat room" for buddies? It certainly isn't that all the time, but maybe too much of the time.

Should the forum be an "encyclopaedia" of Chiang Mai I don't think so, and I don't hope so, but here's hoping it gets better than a parade of casual replies with "emoticons."

[kash]

[endure]

[Chiangmai Foxy]

You have to consider the expat population density in the different geographical areas you are referring to. The higher population centers will have a more 'diverse' group and as such the same type of interaction and 'potential' for things getting heated are obviously higher. I don't know which other community forum you are referring to, but from my viewpoint, as a moderator and watching all the forums, the Chiangmai forum is one of the better behaved of the groups even though it is one of the larger member bases. Bangkok and Pattaya probably the largest and reflects in the posting counts and diversity of posts and styles.

totally agree with that,this forum is very pleasant indeed,reflects the people of chiang mai on the whole, as opposed to......pattaya forum for instance different characters & mindset lets say.

seems to be a good camaradary (spelling?) here as alot of members know each other which helps.

btw any thai visa nights out between xmas and end of january,as it would be nice to put some names to faces.might well turn up at tuskers on new years eve,anyone going?

[miltonbentley]

Welcome to the forum Mapguy

I know where you are coming from with your comments from my own early experiences on TV. My first couple of queries on the forum were met by some fairly uncharitable responses, 'we had a thread on that six months ago', 'don't you know how to use google' and that type of thing which put me off a bit. However I soon came to realise that these were a tiny minority of negative dickheads of the kind you get anywhere and not worthy of worrying about.

As for information if you have a serious question you will almost certainly get plenty of responses that will help. I have never failed to get a question answered. Sometimes I have been astonished the time and effort that people I have never met have taken to help me with a particular query.

As to the banter Crowboy hits the nails on the head that many posters know each other socially and a bit of ribbing each other on the forum is just a little fun.

The CM forum is a great community spiced up by the diversity of its members so don't let the occasional tosser put you off.

[bunta71]

I,too was lurking but have now donned my best trousers and am now sitting up straight with my usual smirk wiped off my face. Now...what was the question?

[Ricardo]

Think not what your Forum can do for you - But what You can do for your Forum.

Recommendations for restaurants are always a good topic, to get the juices (and comments !) flowing, I've observed.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Ricardo

[tigerbeer]

[p1p]

Yet another Supermod who lurks, reads and occasionally posts!

Perhaps I am parroting what has gone before but the forum will only ever be what you and other members/contributors make of it. As mods we try to keep things within bounds, but we sometimes miss problems for the simple reason that we are volunteers and we, or most of us, do have lives apart from ThaiVisa and the Chiang Mai forum. If you have a problem, PM a mod or two or use the report function to let us know. It will be dealt with.

Many of the oooooold users can occasionally be a bit curt with new users who are too lazy or do not have the intelligence to search for the answer to their question before they post a new thread to ask, for the tenth time that month, where they can find a pair of shoes/doctor/guesthouse/pizza etc. Almost all questions have been asked and answered many times before and the instructions to search are posted at the top of the forum's first page. It is simply bad netiquette, read rude, and shows disrespect to the members of the forum to not look and read before you ask.

As to banter - Any group of friends/work colleagues/community members on the planet will enjoy taking part in a little banter and leg pulling amongst each other. It is human nature. All you have to do to belong is simply join in our discussions and you will most likely be accepted and, eventually if you prove yourself to be a valued member of our community, you will find joking banter directed at you too. If you step too far out of line - Well that is where we Supermods come in - and you could find yourself being warned or even being shown the door.

Join in - You can't lose by doing so.

[higgy88]

I do agree with you Mapguy, but....

I had lurked on this forum for a year or more before I finally joined. It was an excellent source of information. My occassional post is usually ignored, but with a couple of teenage children I have gotten used to being ignored, and I know I can get verrry boring. Now, there are a h_ll of a lot more members and a much more more diverse group of posters, and I find reading Thai Visa much more entertaining now than it used to be. I actually like it when a couple of posters start going after each other. But then again, in my younger days I liked going to the MIS (Michigan International Speedway) just to see the crashes. Just goes to show we get our entertainment in different ways. I also think the moderators do an excellent job of acting as the referee and keeping the fights clean before they finally break it up and stop the fight. Of course sometimes it is a bit disappointing when they do that because it was just getting good.

[PeaceBlondie]

Before coming to ThaiVisa and making 8,050 posts, I contributed to other forums, both about Chiang Mai and other things. This is my favorite website now, just as Chiang Mai is my favorite part of Thailand. Forums usually have old friends kidding each other, and you have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Mapguy, maybe you know something that we don't, that we need to know. Please, chime in.

[Rasseru]

Mapguy, you coupled your post on "Civility on the Chiang Mai Forum" with an "invitation for comment on appropriate use of the forum".

I would comment that I think your post itself, as the first post of a person who has been "lurking" -- I use the term you yourself used, and do not mean to suggest anything negative by it -- without participating or introducing himself, is discourteous, which is one of the meanings of uncivil, and as such an inappropriate use of the forum.