What Is The Difference Between:

[Wizzard of Oz]

ถึงแม้ว่า [thĕung máe wâa]

แม้ว่า [máe wâa]

1. What does adding the 'ถึง' (thĕung) do?

2. Seperate question - is there some correlation between the meaning of thĕung here, and the meaning 'arrive'. Or are they totally unrelated and just spelt the same like right (as in left/right) and right (right/wrong)?

3. Totally unrelated to the rest of the post, but - is it just me, or does it seem wierd that 'duay gun' which means 'together' also means 'by means of', such as in 'reduce stress by(means of) exercise' (khlaai khriat duay gaan awkgumlungkhai). Or is the 'gaan' a longer sounding word meaning something different? Any info would be helpful. Cheers.

Edited December 10, 2007 by Wizzard of Oz

[DavidHouston]

ถึงแม้ว่า - CONJ. - even though

Syn. :: ถึง,ทั้งที่,ทั้งๆ ที่,แม้,แม้ว่า,ถึงแม้

Example :: ถึงแม้ว่าเขาจะจนเขาก็ไม่เคยคดโกงใคร

"Even though he is poor, he never considered cheating anyone."

According to Lexitron, both terms are synonymous; and, note the number of ways above to say "even though". I believe that I have heard all these used in the same manner; if there are differences, I have been unable to distinguise them.

[DavidHouston]

3. Totally unrelated to the rest of the post, but - is it just me, or does it seem wierd that 'duay gun' which means 'together' also means 'by means of', such as in 'reduce stress by(means of) exercise' (khlaai khriat duay gaan awkgumlungkhai). Or is the 'gaan' a longer sounding word meaning something different? Any info would be helpful. Cheers.

Your second instinct is correct. The first is กัน (kan); the second is กาน (kaan), one of the several Thai prefixes converting verbs to nouns. In your example, the กาน is converting the verb "to exercise" to the noun.

[meadish_sweetball]

Agree with David on both points. There is no actual difference in meaning between ถึงแม้ว่า [thĕung máe wâa] and

แม้ว่า [máe wâa] based on how I have seen them used, and the words กัน and การ are as unrelated as 'dog' and 'Doug'.

[phetchal]

ถึงแม้ว่า [thĕung máe wâa] emphasize your emotion more than แม้ว่า [máe wâa]

[stateman]

Your second instinct is correct. The first is กัน (kan); the second is กาน (kaan), one of the several Thai prefixes converting verbs to nouns. In your example, the กาน is converting the verb "to exercise" to the noun.

3. Totally unrelated to the rest of the post, but - is it just me, or does it seem wierd that 'duay gun' which means 'together' also means 'by means of', such as in 'reduce stress by(means of) exercise' (khlaai khriat duay gaan awkgumlungkhai). Or is the 'gaan' a longer sounding word meaning something different? Any info would be helpful. Cheers.

Your second instinct is correct. The first is กัน (kan); the second is กาน (kaan), one of the several Thai prefixes converting verbs to nouns. In your example, the กาน is converting the verb "to exercise" to the noun.

Second what DavidHouston stated above, except the word 'kaan' is written as การ (last alphabet is ร 'rau rua').

This is one convenience in Thai Grammar that very often you can convert a verb into a noun, as explained by DavidHouston above, by simply adding การ.

Example: เดิน v. = walk. การเดิน n. = walking

Likewise a very helpful 'converter' to make an adjective to a noun is often 'ความ'.

Example: ดี adj. = good. ความดี = n. goodness, virtue.

งาม adj. = beautiful. ความงาม = n. beauty.

Word of caution: Be very careful to apply การ to verb and ความ to adjective strictly. Don't cross them.

Many times Thai speakers are heard to use them 'crossed'. It sounds wrong and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[stateman]

2. Seperate question - is there some correlation between the meaning of thĕung here, and the meaning 'arrive'. Or are they totally unrelated and just spelt the same like right (as in left/right) and right (right/wrong)?

Cheers.

Wizzard of Oz: Right on!

ถึง tĕung has a number of usage.

Besides the 2 you cited above,

คิด kid = think

คิดถึง kid teung = think of (you, for example.) This is used often during a courtship!

ถึง teung can even be used in a slang to mean more than arrive. Example:

'ถึงโตเกียว' teung Tokyo (or any other place), as used among guys often is used to mean more than physical arrival in Tokyo.

A slang meaning means 'have sex' with the locals in Tokyo.

So if A tells B of his visit to Tokyo recently. B may ask, knowing that A went there, แล้วไป'ถึง' โตเกียวหรื่อเปล่า

laew pai teung Tokyo rue plao?

So did you 'get (sex)' there?

[Wizzard of Oz]

Forgot to say - thanks for the help on this.

Every answer was very clear and very helpful.

Thank you.