Protecting Thailand ...

[Yohan]

i feel we have gone off topic here somewhat... .....

i am genuinly shocked by the great number of western men with their young thai women.

This is also off topic, I would say...

I do not think, that immigration regulations are responsible for the huge number of Western men, who prefer Asian women....

-----

Generally about Thailand:

Thailand is NOT the poor nation in Asia...GNP per capita is low, but higher than in many (most?) other countries in that region...

Protecting Thailand?... From Exploitation by Farangs ....? Something wrong to ask in this way...... Seems to me, they would be much poorer off without foreigners, considering the economic figures.

And about what foreigners are you talking? There are plenty of illegal workers in Thailand, from Burma, China, Laos and so on.... working for minimum wages...

What about talking of exploitation by the Thais?

Thailand has many outdated laws, including Immigration Regulations, residence of foreigners, citizenship, property laws and so on....

They will have to do something about it.....

[elsie]

I didn't mean to offend, nor do I now but my understanding is this... but as a business owner, surely he could have got one?

Maybe he didn't want to pay taxes - so didn't put his name up?

Quite right, Up2U. He's a cheap bastard. He's registered his business only in Canada and China.

[RDN]

...i am genuinly shocked by the great number of western men with their young thai women...

... and I am genuinely shocked by this trolling performance, Harry!

[RooBoy]

it's very easy for a big country's passport holder to come here. Just show up and get in the country. While Thais have to attend an interview when apply for a Visa. That's not too bad. What's very bad is most of genuine applications have been turned down. I think we can live with a bit more strict Immigration procedures.

What do you consider a genuine application?? The guy in his shorts and T shirt trying to get a tourist visa for his 3 week old GF who only work bar 3 days? All the students and normal applicants I have known have not had trouble getting their visas.

Or the Thai males who kept turning up on New Zealands doorstep for a holiday, carrying tool boxes and speaking no English? (no need to speak about the Thai females going to NZ for a 3 month 'holiday') Little wonder NZ closed the door on automatic visas.

Fact is, Thailand needs the tourist from the west, but the west doesnt see any benefit in having you.

If Thailand truly wanted to make it difficult, they would just stop the concurrent 30 day visas at all land borders. Then we could get rid of the unsavoury characters like Begs, maybe you could take your ute over to Cambo Begsy and run a taxi service, I hear you can fit 20 odd in the back with a bit of cramming

[Harry Palmer]

The guy in his shorts and T shirt trying to get a tourist visa for his 3 week old GF who only work bar 3 days?

'his 3 week old gf'... really... isn't that sort of thing against the law... shame on that applicant... just another example of expoitation that the 'Harry Palmer Foundation' will be contacting amnesty international about...

bar grils should'nt be allowed entry visas to other coutries.. but that's another thread

[davethailand]

The guy in his shorts and T shirt trying to get a tourist visa for his 3 week old GF who only work bar 3 days?

'his 3 week old gf'... really... isn't that sort of thing against the law... shame on that applicant... just another example of expoitation that the 'Harry Palmer Foundation' will be contacting amnesty international about...

bar grils should'nt be allowed entry visas to other coutries.. but that's another thread

bar grils should'nt be allowed entry visas to other coutries.. but that's another thread

i'm getting the feeling that you have a secret alias

[hkthai]

What do you consider a genuine application?? The guy in his shorts and T shirt trying to get a tourist visa for his 3 week old GF who only work bar 3 days? All the students and normal applicants I have known have not had trouble getting their visas.

Been here 5 years, how many people do you know?

Plenty of normal people with jobs but no hard assets to provide substantial proof of not becoming a Robin Hood gets refused all the time. Then there are some that is too old with no job and some assets also getting refused. You are left with those who have assets and income and substantial proof of wanting to return to Thailand who will more than likely get the visa.

The worst part it cost 3-4k <deleted> baht (US Embassy) and a wasted day standing in line to receive the pleasure of being refused.

Or the Thai males who kept turning up on New Zealands doorstep for a holiday, carrying tool boxes and speaking no English? (no need to speak about the Thai females going to NZ for a 3 month 'holiday') Little wonder NZ closed the door on automatic visas.

Plenty of "trash" from other countries coming in to Thailand...western males included. As a matter of fact some just shows up and don't speak one word of Thai ??? Imagine that!!

Fact is, Thailand needs the tourist from the west, but the west doesnt see any benefit in having you.

A little short sighted or short minded statement on your part, don't you think? Many countries are promoting tourism as an exportable" industry. As I recall it takes some money, a secure job, and some assets to see the Golden Gate Bridge or for that matter Old Ben, or the Gold Coast. Yea, they just don't want the people without any money....certainly don't need those kinds of people here as well literring up the place.

[Yohan]

HKTHAI,

I would like to ask you some questions:

hkthai Posted on Tue 2004-08-31, 14:51:18 I just have to save for about 30 years on my 150 baht a day income to earn enough for plane tickets. I can travel there on a tourists visa..

1- You mentioned in this thread, that your daily income is 150 baht. I do not know anybody of my Thai friends, who is earning so little....especially not, if they have some skills and can speak and write acceptable English.

How do you think, with which arguments, can you explain, you are requesting a tourist visa for the United States?

2- What do you expect of a foreign tourist, entering Thailand to spend? What is required as a minimum of money to show up at the border to be allowed to enter? And for how long? Long-term...retirement....welcome or not....??

3-

What is for you, reading your posting, the TRASH?

HKTHAI: 'Plenty of "trash" from other countries coming into Thailand...western males included. As a matter of fact some just shows up and don't speak one word of Thai ??? Imagine that!!

'

Are these the workers from Burma and from Cambodia?

4- For your information:

Our Thai friends never had any problem for European countries, USA and Japan to receive a tourist visa. Of course, they do not earn baht 150,- per day!

Visa are issued to Thai nationals, if they can prove, they have enough money to be a tourist!

HKTHAI: As I recall it takes some money, a secure job, and some assets to see the Golden Gate Bridge or for that matter Old Ben, or the Gold Coast. Yea, they just don't want the people without any money

Exactly, this is the reason, why some Thais are receiving their visas, and some Thais are refused. Thailand has over 60 million people, and there are several millions of Thais, who easily can qualify as a tourist in the most expensive destinations.

5- About foreigners, entering Thailand as a tourist:

Generally Thailand requires visa from tourists of most countries according to their bilateral agreements. It was the Thai government, which made unilateral an EXCEPTION of these visa agreements of (mostly) 30 days for tourist only (not from all countries, some poor ones are excluded!) with confirmed tickets.

It seems therefore, it benefits Thailand's economy, and it is up to the Thai government to revoke this exception anytime.

6- My own situation:

If Thailand does not like us, then we might go for holidays to the United States, NO VISA REQUIRED! Or to Canada, or to everywhere in Europe.

We might go to China or Vietnam....not a rich place, but visafree for my Japanese family, and for me a stamp with a minimum of formalities (1 form, 1 picture, 1 passport, same day) or Malaysia (3 months visafree) or Philippines....

Do you know, how many Thai people are earning out a living of foreign tourists?

Construction companies, transportation companies, hotel service staff, food distributors, medical supply, amusements, shipping......

You cannot deny, that Thailand is earning a huge amount of foreign currency from 'qualified tourists'

[hkthai]

HKTHAI: As I recall it takes some money, a secure job, and some assets to see the Golden Gate Bridge or for that matter Old Ben, or the Gold Coast. Yea, they just don't want the people without any money

Exactly, this is the reason, why some Thais are receiving their visas, and some Thais are refused. Thailand has over 60 million people, and there are several millions of Thais, who easily can qualify as a tourist in the most expensive destinations.

5- About foreigners, entering Thailand as a tourist:

Generally Thailand requires visa from tourists of most countries according to their bilateral agreements. It was the Thai government, which made unilateral an EXCEPTION of these visa agreements of (mostly) 30 days for tourist only (not from all countries, some poor ones are excluded!) with confirmed tickets.

It seems therefore, it benefits Thailand's economy, and it is up to the Thai government to revoke this exception anytime.

6- My own situation:

If Thailand does not like us, then we might go for holidays to the United States, NO VISA REQUIRED! Or to Canada, or to everywhere in Europe.

We might go to China or Vietnam....not a rich place, but visafree for my Japanese family, and for me a stamp with a minimum of formalities (1 form, 1 picture, 1 passport, same day) or Malaysia (3 months visafree) or Philippines....

1- You mentioned in this thread, that your daily income is 150 baht. I do not know anybody of my Thai friends, who is earning so little....especially not, if they have some skills and can speak and write acceptable English.

You didn't actually take it literally? It was sarcasm in response to a post. Go back a reread it.

How do you think, with which arguments, can you explain, you are requesting a tourist visa for the United States?

Not sure what you mean by this. Personally don't need a tourist visa to the US.

2- What do you expect of a foreign tourist, entering Thailand to spend? What is required as a minimum of money to show up at the border to be allowed to enter? And for how long? Long-term...retirement....welcome or not....??

Go back and reread. Never stated visitors or long term residence not welcomed. In fact, long term residence welcome as long as a skill can be added and there are contributiions for the betterment of Thailand to be made.

3-

What is for you, reading your posting, the TRASH?

View it as you please. I am sure there are some or many will call it trash.

HKTHAI: 'Plenty of "trash" from other countries coming into Thailand...western males included. As a matter of fact some just shows up and don't speak one word of Thai ??? Imagine that!!

'

Are these the workers from Burma and from Cambodia?

The reference was not to any Burmese or Cambodians.

Do you know, how many Thai people are earning out a living of foreign tourists?

Construction companies, transportation companies, hotel service staff, food distributors, medical supply, amusements, shipping......

You cannot deny, that Thailand is earning a huge amount of foreign currency from 'qualified tourists'

And here's what I wrote in response to a message.

QUOTE 

Fact is, Thailand needs the tourist from the west, but the west doesnt see any benefit in having you.

A little short sighted or short minded statement on your part, don't you think? Many countries are promoting tourism as an exportable" industry. As I recall it takes some money, a secure job, and some assets to see the Golden Gate Bridge or for that matter Old Ben, or the Gold Coast. Yea, they just don't want the people without any money....certainly don't need those kinds of people here as well literring up the place.

Where did I say that tourism was not good to the economy. The point was that all countries prefer tourists who have spending power and can bring in foreign currencies. And what I implied was that Thailand does not need people here that have cut all ties to their own coutries and am thinking about etching out a living on their miniscule savings in Thailand. Much like the rest of world does not want a Thai with no proof of income or assets and may become a burden on that society.

Comprendo??

[350torana]

Explotation works both ways. I am sure there are falangs who take baht out of the country. But then again u have double pricing , national parks in particular . if this is not explotation of 'rich falang' then call my uncle bob

[Teach]

It is with regret that this reply has to be posted, but having read some posts from ex Thai's once removed now living in richer economic environments, and from some farangs who appear to want to be selective in who of their own kind come here for what ever reason.

Thailand, past, present and no doubt in the future will always be reliant on financial input from richer economies. Be it IMF, World bank, Bank of America. Or GM, BMW, Shell, Siemens, Ford, etc,etc, the list is endless. Why, because Thailand has but one product with which to trade Internationally...Rice, and that unfortunately is tolerated merely as a trade-off. Without the co-operation of the richer states looking to exploit the non-existent labour laws, and and lax banking regulations in Thailand there would be no interest in foreign investment, leaving Thailand to fester in 3rd world status infinitum.

There is no reason at all for Thai's not to be protective of preserving their culture, but to accuse the 'Farang' of endangering it is naive. The culture as it is known has been ( and continues to be at an alarming rate) diluted and neglected...by the so called Thai elite, those who have...

"...slipped the bonds of national allegiance, and by so doing have disengaged themselves from their less favoured fellows" ( Robert Reich)

Greed is the new order of the day first and foremost, but understand that it cannot be for all, save having to share the spoils so to speak. So whilst the 'elite rape this country of all its assets, riches and wealth. Those of you who do not qualify are left to find blame in others. Unfortunately you choose to blame the very people who maintain a meagre status quo for the rest of 'ordinary Thai's'....

...and for those farangs who constantly bleat about 'Improving the quality of the tourist and long stay resident' be careful what you wish for. This was the wish of the American middle classes until the economy booms created a gap so large between them and the richer classes, leaving them with working class status.

With relaxing or improving the business laws for foreigners, making doing business easier for farangs will inevitably improve the quality of said as a natural cycle.

Beware the 'Four horsemen'

Teach

[Bulldog]

Explotation works both ways. I am sure there are falangs who take baht out of the country. But then again u have double pricing , national parks in particular . if this is not explotation of 'rich falang' then call my uncle bob

Uncle Bob says :

If you have a Thai driving License, you will pay the same ammount to get into a National park as a Thai National. 20 Baht.

Good deal i think, cos i dont think Overseas tourists would think too much about paying more than a Thai National in Thailand.

I don't, then again, i have a Thai Driving License and pay 20 Baht.

[Yohan]

Explotation works  both ways. I am sure there are  falangs who take  baht  out of  the country. ................

Yes, it works both ways,

it is not the same in Thailand, if you are a golf-tourist from Japan, or if you are a low paid construction worker from Burma ....

Thailand is, as I said in a previous posting, NOT a poor country compared to many others in that region...

Seems they are earning well out of co-operation with foreign countries.

Regardless if using cheap workers from poor countries around, or from overpricing foreign well-off tourists. Is this not exploitation? Or will you call it good business? Up to you!

Protect Thailand against business?

As far as I can see, only Singapore and Malaysia have a higher income and living standard...all others are below .....Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, but also China, India, Philippines and Indonesia....

[usatrader]

Good thread.

Though, I am hearing a lot of hyperbole as to immigration to the UK, Austrailia, new Zealand.

I wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of anyones opinion but,

TA B L E 1 7 . 5 .

Top 10 Countries of Emigration,

1970-1995

Country Net Number of Emigrants

(in millions)

Mexico -6.0

Bangladesh -4.1

Afghanistan -4.1

Philippines -2.9

Kazakhstan -2.6

Vietnam -2.0

Rwanda -1.7

Sri Lanka -1.5

Colombia -1.3

Bosnia and Herzegovina -1.2

Source:

United Nations (1999)

TA B L E 1 7 . 6 .

Top 15 Countries with the Largest

International Migrant Stock, 2000

Country Net Number of Migrants

(in millions)

USA 35.0

Russian Federation 13.3

Germany 7.3

Ukraine 6.9

France 6.3

India 6.3

Canada 5.8

Saudi Arabia 5.3

Australia 4.7

Pakistan 4.2

United Kingdom 4.0

Kazakhstan 3.0

Côte d'Ivoire 2.3

Iran 2.3

Israel 2.3

Source:

United Nations (2002)

· in millions

Thailand. Thailand has about 400,000 registered foreign workers in 49 provinces, and perhaps 600,000 to 800,000 unregistered or illegal foreign workers from Burma, Cambodia and Laos. The government announced a three-phase decentralized policy to legalize and manage migrants.

During Phase 1 in July 2004, migrant workers 12 and older can register directly at district offices, kamnan or village headmen's offices by paying a 3,800 baht fee (including Bt600 for the health check and 1,300 Bt for health insurance) and receive one-year work permits; migrants must complete medical checks at designated hospitals by the end of October 2004. Migrants can also register their family members, and thus be entitled to the minimum wage of 135 baht a day ($3.35), health care and education for children.

During Phase 2, the migrants' countries of origin are to certify the citizenship of registered migrants, and to issue them home country identification. [some Burmese migrants are reportedly afraid to register and have their names sent to Burmese authorities, since leaving Burma illegally can bring a three-year prison term]. There is also to be stepped-up enforcement including using the army to find employers and their unauthorized migrants as well as public officials who tolerate continued unauthorized employment.

In Phase 3 of the new Thai labor management program, the Ministry of Interior will for the first time issue two-year renewable work permits to unskilled foreign workers who were registered in July 2004, and had their citizenship certified by their country of origin. Registered workers will be able to change Thai employers, who in turn will be able to request replacement foreign workers. Thailand's Economic Cooperation Strategy is billed as aid to neighboring countries to promote economic development in border areas; it is to include contract farming for Thai companies.

The Thai government intends to place a country-wide ceiling on the number of migrant workers, likely to be 500,000, and to allocate this quota to provinces based on their shares of registered migrants in 2001-03. A committee chaired by the appointed governor in each province will allocate provincial quotas by sector, and if employers want to hire migrants, the bilateral MOUs call for Thai employers to advertise the jobs they would like to fill with migrants for at least 15 days, specifying the skills needed to fill the job. The labor-sending country is to select migrants who will travel to Thailand without their families to work for an initial two years, with the possibility of a two-year renewal followed by a mandatory three-year stay at home. While in Thailand, migrants are to contribute 15 percent of their earnings to a savings fund, with these forced savings refunded with interest to migrants who return at the end of the contract.

The Public Health Ministry has earmarked Bt1,300 in costs per person, per year, for migrant workers, plus an estimated Bt600 per health check. The Labor Ministry has sought and received government approval to spend Bt451 million in order to regulate existing migrant workers and seal borders to prevent a future influx.

Thailand apprehended 280,937 illegal foreigners at 54 checkpoints in 2003, including 189,486 irregular foreign workers-- 115,633 were Burmese, 54,738 Cambodians and 19,115 from Laos.

There is internal migration from Thailand's north and northeast to the Bangkok area in search of higher wages. The Thai government announced a plan to plant 400,000 acres of rubber trees in northeast Thailand over the next five years to spur development there

UK:

In April 2004, Prime Minister Tony Blair said that Britain had reached a "crunch point" in its dealing with migrants and promised a "top-to-bottom" review of migration policies. The UK government will allow Eastern Europeans from the new accession EU-10 to travel freely to Britain in search of jobs, but they will not be allowed to obtain welfare benefits if they cannot find jobs. If they do find jobs, they must register with the government within 30 days.

By June 30, 2004, some 24,000 Eastern Europeans were enrolled in the workers' registry, including 14,000 who were in the UK on May 1, 2004; almost all had no dependents with them

Compared with the UK-born population, the overseas-born population has a much more diverse mix of ethnic groups. While 96 per cent of the UK-born population was White in 2001, only just over half (53 per cent, or 2.6 million) of the overseas-born population was White. The next largest ethnic groups for people born overseas were Indian (570,000), Pakistani (336,000), Black African (322,000) and Black Caribbean (238,000). Other ethnic groups with significant representation among the UK overseas-born population are Chinese (176,000 were born overseas) and Bangladeshi (152,000).

Among the overseas-born population, country of birth does not always correspond closely with ethnic origin. Overseas-born people from the White ethnic group are the most diverse in regard to their countries and continents of birth. One in five (21 per cent) were born in the Republic of Ireland and a further two in five (41 per cent) were born elsewhere in Europe. Substantial proportions of overseas-born White people were also born in Asia (11 per cent), North or South America (11 per cent), Africa (10 per cent) and Oceania (6 per cent).

People born in Africa are the most varied in terms of their ethnic backgrounds. In 2001 less than two-fifths (38 per cent) of all African-born UK residents were Black, while 31 per cent were White and 20 per cent were Indian. Source: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=767

Austrailia:

Australia received 125,300 immigrants in 2002-03, while the natural increase in the population was 115,200. However, almost as many people left Australia permanently as arrived, and half of those departing were born in Australia. Australia, a country of 20 million, has 900,000 to one million citizens abroad, and the federal government is studying how to maintain links to the Australian diaspora.

Between 1946 and 1972, Australia subsidized the immigration of one million British "Ten Pound Poms," who paid a nominal 10 pounds to emigrate to Australia.

The 250,000 immigrants arriving in the five years to 2002 include 90,000 New Zealanders, 33,000 Chinese, 29,000 South Africans, and 23,000 Indians. As of June 20, 2002, there were 414,000 New Zealanders living in Australia; the migration of New Zealanders to Australia is the highest rate of migration between industrial countries. Source: http://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=3035_0_5_0

That is all!

[RooBoy]

Been here 5 years, how many people do you know? Plenty of normal people with jobs but no hard assets to provide substantial proof of not becoming a Robin Hood gets refused all the time.  Then there are some that is too old with no job and some assets also getting refused.  You are left with those who have assets and income and substantial proof of wanting to return to Thailand who will more than likely get the visa

Quite alot, and I do know people who were refused visas, like you say, no assets, no money to travel, what do you expect? You see the difference is, a farang with no money in the bank would not go to the travel agent and just buy a ticket to Thailand, not unless he had money in the bank/CC's that could support him on holiday. Logic mate, something You guys lack..

The worst part it cost 3-4k <deleted> baht (US Embassy) and a wasted day standing in line to receive the pleasure of being refused. 

If you dont have the assets and job etc then you are being illogical by wasting the money and day applying in the first place. the US isnt going to give you a handout when you arrive on their doorstep with 100 bucks in your pocket, they wouldnt do it for anyone.

Plenty of "trash" from other countries coming in to Thailand...western males included.  As a matter of fact some just shows up and don't speak one word of Thai ???  Imagine that!! 

Even what you call trash has money pal, thats the difference. Tell us who you consider to be trash?? (teachers working illegally not included) Why do tourists need to speak perfect Thai? Again you dont seem to get it, Thailand NEEDS the tourists, and not the cheap ars-ed Asian package tours that come through, it needs tourists who spend money, that includes all the backpackers, single male travellers, long term tourists doing 3-6 months, etc. I havent met very many people who couldnt support themselves in Thailand.

A little short sighted or short minded statement on your part, don't you think?  Many countries are promoting tourism as an exportable" industry.  As I recall it takes some money, a secure job, and some assets to see the Golden Gate Bridge or for that matter Old Ben, or the Gold Coast.  Yea, they just don't want the people without any money....certainly don't need those kinds of people here as well literring up the place.

What has the US advertising tourism got to do with the price of fish? Again you answer your own statement, IT TAKES MONEY, and the US, AUST, UK, NZ, etc is not going to hand out visas to Thai people with no money, its simple LOGIC mate.

I wonder just how many Thais are overseas working illegally in Western countries, taking jobs from Farangs, abusing the system?? EH??? How many farangs are taking jobs from Thais??? EH????????

Wake up mate, read what Teach and Yohan said..

[meemiathai]

Let him enjoy his life, HKThai. You really can't do anything! There are quite a few these types of farangs!

[Bulldog]

You see the difference is, a farang with no money in the bank would not go to the travel agent and just buy a ticket to Thailand, not unless he had money in the bank/CC's that could support him on holiday. Logic mate, something You guys lack..

Unless he is the type of Farang that comes to Thailand with 3,600 Ecstacy Pills in his body cream tub.

[hkthai]

Boy,

You need to wipe the fog off your eyes and do some reading rather than spouting for a change. Also do try to use a little bit less of your logic to jump to illogical conclusions about what I am trying to say. Oh and do I have to spell out CYNICISM in large words???

So let me attempt to put things in an orderly fashion so the logical mind can process information without any hangups.

Been here 5 years, how many people do you know? Plenty of normal people with jobs but no hard assets to provide substantial proof of not becoming a Robin Hood gets refused all the time.  Then there are some that is too old with no job and some assets also getting refused.  You are left with those who have assets and income and substantial proof of wanting to return to Thailand who will more than likely get the visa

Quite alot, and I do know people who were refused visas, like you say, no assets, no money to travel, what do you expect? You see the difference is, a farang with no money in the bank would not go to the travel agent and just buy a ticket to Thailand, not unless he had money in the bank/CC's that could support him on holiday. Logic mate, something You guys lack..

One recent example.

1. Money in the bank and statement to proove. A house in his name. Not rich but not poor by Thai standard. Enough for a vacation as well as staying with relatives overseas.

2. No job. Retired living on savings.

3. Wife and grown working kids.

4. Applied for visa for himself.

Denied.

If you dont have the assets and job etc then you are being illogical by wasting the money and day applying in the first place. the US isnt going to give you a handout when you arrive on their doorstep with 100 bucks in your pocket, they wouldnt do it for anyone.

Who's asking for a handout???

Even what you call trash has money pal, thats the difference. Tell us who you consider to be trash?? (teachers working illegally not included) Why do tourists need to speak perfect Thai?

CYNACISM SARCASM CYNACISM SARCASM

1. Read your original post.

2. Read my reply.

3. Read above four capitalized words.

A little short sighted or short minded statement on your part, don't you think?  Many countries are promoting tourism as an exportable" industry.  As I recall it takes some money, a secure job, and some assets to see the Golden Gate Bridge or for that matter Old Ben, or the Gold Coast.  Yea, they just don't want the people without any money....certainly don't need those kinds of people here as well literring up the place.

What has the US advertising tourism got to do with the price of fish? Again you answer your own statement, IT TAKES MONEY, and the US, AUST, UK, NZ, etc is not going to hand out visas to Thai people with no money, its simple LOGIC mate.

Well no shit!! Why don't you read from the beginning and see if the meaning is the same.

I wonder just how many Thais are overseas working illegally in Western countries, taking jobs from Farangs, abusing the system?? EH??? How many farangs are taking jobs from Thais??? EH????????

Don't know. You seems to have the all the answers so you tell me.

[Yohan]

IT TAKES MONEY, and the US, AUST, UK, NZ, etc is not going to hand out visas to Thai people with no money, its simple LOGIC mate.

.........

Wake up mate, read what Teach and Yohan said..

Let me correct this sentence a little bit:

IT TAKES MONEY, and the US, AUST, UK, NZ, etc is not going to hand out TOURISTvisas (to Thai) to any foreign citizen with no money, its simple LOGIC

Yes, a tourist has to pay for his expenses, he cannot work in the country, where he is a tourist! In Japan he should show up with at least USD 150,- (baht 6000,-)per day/per person. Otherwise how can he pay for his hotel-accomodation - for his transportation - for his restaurant-bill???

The Thai Government has bilateral visa agreements with most countries, of course including USA, Japan, EU countries and other financial well off nations.

It is regulated in these agreements, who is welcome and to which conditions. Up to now there is nothing known that the Thai Government wants to change those agreements.

A Thai tourist, entering Japan is expected to support himself, like every tourist in this world. If the Thai national can proof that, he will receive the tourist visa for Japan according to the bilateral agreement.

Looking at the economic figures, there are about 15 percent out of the population in Thailand, about 9 million Thai, who have enough money to qualify to enter as a tourist in Japan.

If a Japanese tourist is going to Thailand, the Thai Government has the right to request the same tourist visa procedure.

Thailand gives the entry permit for 30 days without checking anything and without any visa to all Japanese nationals. Seems that Thailand makes good business out of this politics. But there is no obligation at all for Japan (and for any other country)to follow up and to do the same - and it is up to Thailand, to cancel the 30-days exception anytime and to require entry visa for Japanese nationals (or for any other nationals).

If a Thai national does not agree with that open-door-30 days for foreigners, then he has to complain to his own government. It was the Thai government's unilateral decision, they made this rule.

[Yohan]

One recent example.

1. Money in the bank and statement to proove.  A house in his name.  Not rich but not poor by Thai standard.  Enough for a vacation as well as staying with relatives overseas.

2. No job.  Retired living on savings.

3. Wife and grown working kids.

4. Applied for visa for himself.

Denied.

HKThai,

When asking you questions, all what I can read, are some strange replies, but no clear answer.

Let us see, why he was refused

1. money in the bank, house and so on...

How much money does he have in his savings, which he can take with him to pay for his expenses as a tourist?

2. Does he have a confirmed return flight ticket in his name, fully paid? Hotel, accomodation paid in advance (package-tour)

3. How high is his retirement pension? Or is he living ONLY on his savings???

4. You did not mention even for which country did he apply? How long does he intend to stay there?

5. Did he show up with anything related to his relatives, where he wants to stay?

(copy of their passports, visa, working permit, guarantee letter....)

6. Any international health insurance, credit-card....?

To say it straight, no one of my Thai friends ever had any problem to receive a tourist visa for England, Japan and USA and Canada....

Give me clear informations, a lot missing in your posting and we can look up for the reasons....

[RooBoy]

Boy,

You need to wipe the fog off your eyes and do some reading rather than spouting for a change. Also do try to use a little bit less of your logic to jump to illogical conclusions about what I am trying to say. Oh and do I have to spell out CYNICISM in large words???

So let me attempt to put things in an orderly fashion so the logical mind can process information without any hangups.

One recent example.

1. Money in the bank and statement to proove. A house in his name. Not rich but not poor by Thai standard. Enough for a vacation as well as staying with relatives overseas.

2. No job. Retired living on savings.

3. Wife and grown working kids.

4. Applied for visa for himself.

Denied.

CYNACISM SARCASM CYNACISM SARCASM

All your postulating and bull-shit makes no difference to the facts, just as Yohan has eloquently explained.

You are just piss.ed because facts are facts, and that blind nationalistic bigotry that so many Thais seem to posses is coming through

At the end of the day it still comes back to basics:

The West doesnt need Thai toursits, but Thailand needs the West!

[Bulldog]

The West doesnt need Thai toursits, but Thailand needs the West!

All except the Aussies!

[meemiathai]

The West doesnt need Thai toursits, but Thailand needs the West!

Tell me Rooboy you feel superior being white!

Mind you that being an Aussie, you're still regarded as being lower class by the europeans. If that's the way you see things.

And don't think it's funny sticking that hypocritical tongue out of your frakin mouth.

They must have thought that you were somewhere around when/where the bomb went off in Bali. But sorry they've missed!

Do you HAVE to stay in Thailand to maintain self-esteem or had you been chased away by the Chinese living in Australia?

Be a man! Leave Thailand! We don't need you!

[hkthai]

Yohan, for a person who thinks my post is trash, you have taken a keen interest in it.

You haven’t really taken the time to go back and read my earlier postings. Like I said earlier, in essence it takes money, assets, and the proof beyond doubt that a Thai visiting another country (USA, England??, Australia???) will not become that country’s burden in order to gain a visa. That is the fact and it is stated as such. There were no emotional strings attached to those statements that said that I was in disagreement about it.

Your reference to my 150 baht a day statement in your earlier posting…well if you have taken that literally then what can I say. Basically it is my way of replying to messages making gross generalization with my own off the wall generalizations. So figuratively speaking, I try to douse fire with water, if the fire is intense then fight it with fire.

To answer you second post, it doesn’t really matter the details. I knew that my uncle stood a 50-50 chance and I urged him not to apply for a visa to the US. By Thai standard he had enough savings and a house under his name. And yes many Thais can and do live on savings. Expense was a mute point as we have a place in the US. He wasn’t about to become a Robin Hood given his age, wife, and kids in Thailand. That wasn’t enough. Was I pissed? Yea but it’s water under the bridge. Would have been nice though to have a screening process to not waste the time and perhaps save some money.

[hkthai]

You are a joke Rooboy. Call us(me) a nationalistic bigot…it doesn’t really matter. You probably got it half right. I have many good American friends who will think of me otherwise but who also know that I talk as much shit as any American or for that matter an Aussie. If you are going to talk shit then take it as well. Don't be bothered with the occasional pie in your face...just throw it back. Here's one coming your way Rooey.

My impression of you is a farang who does not fully appreciate the fact that you were born to a first world country having significant life advantages in terms of skills and education. In a way, in reading through a lot of your posts, your statements give me the impression that you are similar to some of the rich Thais with no concept of what the less advantage class of people are like and how much more “unlearning” and “relearning” are required to reach “acceptable" levels. You seem keen to not be bothered with the ignorant and rather are bothered by their presence. Don’t know how philosophical you are but the wise, rich, and educated will garner so much more respect by staying humble.

[Yohan]

I do not agree with both, with Rooboy and with HKThai, especially in what way they BOTH are presenting their arguments.

Some Thais (like HKThai) are obviously living with the idea, that they are all very very poor, and some nationals from well-off countries (like Rooboy) are considering their nation as rich in return....

Looking at the economic figure, Thailand makes about 2000 usd as GNP per capita and USA somewhat around 35000 usd GNP per capita....

This is the AVERAGE per person. This does not mean, that all Thai are poor and all USA citizen are rich....

35 million people in the USA are making LESS than usd 500,- per month, and what sounds great for a Thai (baht 20000,- per month) is around the poverty level in the USA. These people with USD 500,- per month, often out of job, can never pay for any vacation.....nowhere, no way to go even to Thailand....

On the other side some Thai are remarkable financially good-off, and as far we can estimate, around 8 or 9 million Thai are qualified for an USA/Japan vacation.

Our Thai friend (female, 50 years, medical research) makes easily baht 200.000,- per month.

Purchasing power is an important factor, all and everything is 5 x more expensive here in Japan compared to Thailand, so 35000 usd are not the same everywhere, it depends, in WHICH country you are spending it.

I also made clear, that Thailand is NOT poor, especially comparing it with most of its neighbours, and most of SouthEastAsian country.

HKThai:

If you want to complain, you should first collect good arguments, as much complete as possible. You should study more about the visa procedures, as you do not know about them. Also some economic facts to consider.

You should also be realistic, because Thailand is clearly in the weaker position.

Especially Vietnam is offering the unique chance to shift some good foreign business away from Thailand.

You told me, you do not know, how many foreign cheap workers are in Thailand, working for a minimum wage, many of them illegal..... but I think, you should know, what is going on in your own country.

Same with criminality, as you are considering foreigners as the drug-users and drug-dealers....or as main-power for prostitution.....take a look about Thai prison statistics and you might be astonished....

And finally you should complain to your own government, the Thai government, which is solely responsible for granting 30-days (and no question) visa to many many nationalities....I wonder however if you did it, and I wonder, if you were talking with them exactly in the same way, as you are talking to me.

[RooBoy]

Tell me Rooboy you feel superior being white!

Mind you that being an Aussie, you're still regarded as being lower class by the europeans. If that's the way you see things.

And don't think it's funny sticking that hypocritical tongue out of your frakin mouth.

They must have thought that you were somewhere around when/where the bomb went off in Bali. But sorry they've missed!

Do you HAVE to stay in Thailand to maintain self-esteem or had you been chased away by the Chinese living in Australia?

Be a man! Leave Thailand! We don't need you!

So predictable! How is HK these days? seems your Chinese masters are on the warpath again to reform the decadent HK ways and bring you back to the stifling fold..

Ahhhh hahaha, superior?? oh you guys dont half bite do you! exactly the sort of thing I would expect to hear from someone like you!

LOL lower class?? is that why everyone wants to immigrate to Australia?? I hazard a guess the standard of living and lifestyle beats the pants off most places. Of course we wouldnt get a very open minded opinion of that in this forum would we!

As for Bali, bringing this sort of tragedy up shows your ignorance to the art of sarcastic debate, you should be ashamed of yourself. Its the sort of thing I would have expected an adolescant Singaporean to come up with..

As for being a hypocrite, please explain to me what I am being hypocritical about.

[RooBoy]

You are a joke Rooboy. Call us(me) a nationalistic bigot…it doesn’t really matter. You probably got it half right. I have many good American friends who will think of me otherwise but who also know that I talk as much shit as any American or for that matter an Aussie. If you are going to talk shit then take it as well. Don't be bothered with the occasional pie in your face...just throw it back. Here's one coming your way Rooey.

My impression of you is a farang who does not fully appreciate the fact that you were born to a first world country having significant life advantages in terms of skills and education. In a way, in reading through a lot of your posts, your statements give me the impression that you are similar to some of the rich Thais with no concept of what the less advantage class of people are like and how much more “unlearning” and “relearning” are required to reach “acceptable" levels. You seem keen to not be bothered with the ignorant and rather are bothered by their presence. Don’t know how philosophical you are but the wise, rich, and educated will garner so much more respect by staying humble.

Take it aswell?? Isnt that what I am doing? ignoramous!

You know, I could list heaps of things happening in Australia which piss me off, heaps of things the government is doing that is against our democratic freedoms, and you know what, I do talk about this sort of thing! Ppl like you on the other hand, could not for one second actually admit any faults as being Thailands faults, choosing to blame someone else.. Pity really, because until Thais can accept responsibility for mistakes, and make fundamental changes, they will never be able to compete on a level playing field.

[Yohan]

Yohan, for a person who thinks my post is trash, you have taken a keen interest in it. 

You haven’t really taken the time to go back and read my earlier postings.  Like I said earlier, in essence it takes money, assets, and the proof beyond doubt that a Thai visiting another country (USA, England??, Australia???) will not become that country’s burden in order to gain a visa.  That is the fact and it is stated as such.  There were no emotional strings attached to those statements that said that I was in disagreement about it.

Your reference to my 150 baht a day statement in your earlier posting…well if you have taken that literally then what can I say.  Basically it is my way of replying to messages making gross generalization with my own off the wall generalizations.  So figuratively speaking, I try to douse fire with water, if the fire is intense then fight it with fire.

To answer you second post, it doesn’t really matter the details.  I knew that my uncle stood a 50-50 chance and I urged him not to apply for a visa to the US.  By Thai standard he had enough savings and a house under his name.  And yes many Thais can and do live on savings.  Expense was a mute point as we have a place in the US.  He wasn’t about to become a Robin Hood given his age, wife, and kids in Thailand.  That wasn’t enough.  Was I pissed?  Yea but it’s water under the bridge.  Would have been nice though to have a screening process to not waste the time and perhaps save some money.

First of all, as far as I know, I never said, your posting is trash..... can you show me, in which posting I did so? However your knowledge about visa-procedures is non-existent, and your knowledge about economic facts is poor.

If you do not want to study about, then let me know, and I will not post anything concerning to your problems anymore.

Sitting next door to the Consular Section in the embassy of my own country here in Tokyo, I have seen many applications, accepted ones and refused ones. So, after so many years I should know something about it.

USA is stricter than my own country, has different procedures, but anyway, I should know something about it. And my daughter is living in the USA and is not an USA citizen.

1-

If you consider the chances for your uncle to receive a visa for USA as 50-50, then there must be a reason for that... and if you tell me, it doesn't matter the details, then I cannot help you to find out what was wrong. If you talk in the same way to the officers in the Embassy of the United States, then I am not surprised, that the application did not work out.

To argue for example, that by THAI standards, he has enough savings, is not a valid argument and no reason to qualify as a tourist to the United States and not for Japan and not for all EU ....

I asked you, in what way the US-embassy was informed, that relatives are living in the USA.... you are telling me, details do not matter.....

I think however, it does and has a very big influence in the visa processing procedure.

2-

About the 30 days visa exemption for foreign tourists entering Thaiand, this is solely done by the Thai Government - you have to complain there...I wonder, if you will do this and in which form....

Did you ever try to complain to Thai Government related offices?

And if not, why not?

[hkthai]

You are a joke Rooboy.  Call us(me) a nationalistic bigot…it doesn’t really matter.  You probably got it half right.  I have many good American friends who will think of me otherwise but who also know that I talk as much shit as any American or for that matter an Aussie.  If you are going to talk shit then take it as well.  Don't be bothered with the occasional pie in your face...just throw it back.  Here's one coming your way Rooey. 

My impression of you is a farang who does not fully appreciate the fact that you were born to a first world country having significant life advantages in terms of skills and education.  In a way, in reading through a lot of your posts, your statements give me the impression that you are similar to some of the rich Thais with no concept of what the less advantage class of people are like and how much more “unlearning” and “relearning” are required to reach “acceptable" levels.  You seem keen to not be bothered with the ignorant and rather are bothered by their presence.  Don’t know how philosophical you are but the wise, rich, and educated  will garner so much more respect by staying humble.

Take it aswell?? Isnt that what I am doing? ignoramous!

Pity really, because until Thais can accept responsibility for mistakes, and make fundamental changes, they will never be able to compete on a level playing field.

You know, I could list heaps of things happening in Australia which piss me off, heaps of things the government is doing that is against our democratic freedoms, and you know what, I do talk about this sort of thing! Ppl like you on the other hand, could not for one second actually admit any faults as being Thailands faults, choosing to blame someone else..

Rooboy is back with wax in his ears. That's the problem with people like you Rooboy. You don't listen nor do you read. You have no ideas my view on Thailand and I don't expect you to go back and read what I have said about it either. There are goods and bads as I've pointed out in many of my posts. You've asked people to take off the rose color blinders, well you should follow your own advice and listen to what the Thais are saying about themselves rather than have selective hearing.

You like making generalizations that if X population is so then the whole population must must also be so. I will cut you slack as that may not be your intention. If not then you definitely like the shock factor by belittling people without the smarts. No people of ANY nationality like to be belittled. That is what I mean by a rich (education, money, etc.) Thais with no concept of what empathy is for the poor. For all the smarts in your head you are just as shallow as the illogical Thais that you so despised.

Responde if you like but you are a waste of my time (I am sure the feeling is mutual). I have to making a living and you are a no value added product.

HKTHAI