Job Quandry

[mssabai]

I am currently teaching Kindergarten in a fantastic bilingual school. No complaints at all, absolutely love it, the kids, the facilities, the staff etc. However I have just been offered a job in my dream location. The hours are better, similar pay and I don't have to be in school when not teaching. I also get full Thai holidays - at present I get about half plus a week at Christmas. The problem is that it would be teaching in a government high school - 13-16yos. I have never had experience with this age group, but I have been reliably informed that they are an absolute nightmare, to put it mildly. Now I don't think that I am a walkover, and I would relish a challenge, but would I just be making my life unneccesarily stressful by taking this job? Is there anybody out there who actually enjoys teaching this age group? Are government schools so appalling? Are they as bad as everyone says? Is it that rare to find as good a job as I have?

All help and advice gratefully received!

[jingjingna]

mssabai,

If I were you, I'd try to get in touch with existing English teachers, if you can. That way, you will get some kind of

insight about the place. Some Govt schools are excellent, others are crap..depends on their budget.

[midasthailand]

I am currently teaching Kindergarten in a fantastic bilingual school. No complaints at all, absolutely love it, the kids, the facilities, the staff etc. However I have just been offered a job in my dream location. The hours are better, similar pay and I don't have to be in school when not teaching. I also get full Thai holidays - at present I get about half plus a week at Christmas. The problem is that it would be teaching in a government high school - 13-16yos. I have never had experience with this age group, but I have been reliably informed that they are an absolute nightmare, to put it mildly. Now I don't think that I am a walkover, and I would relish a challenge, but would I just be making my life unneccesarily stressful by taking this job? Is there anybody out there who actually enjoys teaching this age group? Are government schools so appalling? Are they as bad as everyone says? Is it that rare to find as good a job as I have?

All help and advice gratefully received!

I currently teach English to M1, M2 and M3 children in a government school near Don Muang. I find the little darlings a challenge, no doubt about that, but I always leave the school feeling as though I have accomplished something, no matter how small. The school itself has 4,700 students and there are five foreign teachers in the English Program (EP) the facilities are excellent, the classrooms are air conditioned and the grounds of the school are beautiful and the Thai teaching staff are quite friendly. Hope this helps your decision easier.

[mssabai]

mssabai,

If I were you, I'd try to get in touch with existing English teachers, if you can. That way, you will get some kind of

insight about the place. Some Govt schools are excellent, others are crap..depends on their budget.

I will be the first and only english teacher at the school. I already know someone in a similar position at a nearby school and he is the one who told me what little devils his are. I may be able to go and see the school though so I will give that a go.

[mssabai]

I currently teach English to M1, M2 and M3 children in a government school near Don Muang. I find the little darlings a challenge, no doubt about that, but I always leave the school feeling as though I have accomplished something, no matter how small. The school itself has 4,700 students and there are five foreign teachers in the English Program (EP) the facilities are excellent, the classrooms are air conditioned and the grounds of the school are beautiful and the Thai teaching staff are quite friendly. Hope this helps your decision easier.

Hi Midas. I have a few friends teaching in EP programmes and most have a really great time of it. This however is not an EP programme. The kids (and their parents) have not chosen to take english and there will be no additional money going to the school bar my salary. The school itself is just a basic small town school - no air con, minimal materials etc, though I think fairly decent class sizes.

Good to hear that you do enjoy teaching this age group though! Thanks!

[jingjingna]

mssabai,

That is 'why' I suggested you go for a look around, find some other teachers and get a general 'feel' of the place.

[PeaceBlondie]

As I told some teachers yesterday, I love that age group to teach or lead (matayom, ages 12 to 18), and I had many enjoyable experiences with the smaller classes (25 to 31) who wanted to learn English and paid extra for it. It's surely different than teaching anuban (kindergarten), or at a private university. But if you're going to be the only farang who ever taught there, everybody including you and the administrators will be on a rough, steep learning curve. Small towns can be remote and provincial more than they need to be (and I only taught 30-some km from a huge urban center!).

If the staff and students have an exceptionally, extremely abnormal thirst to be fluent in English, go for it. Otherwise, run the other way. Of course, we've never been in your situation, but it sounds familiar. Send me a PM if you want more details of my experience as the first farang ever.

[mssabai]

As I told some teachers yesterday, I love that age group to teach or lead (matayom, ages 12 to 18), and I had many enjoyable experiences with the smaller classes (25 to 31) who wanted to learn English and paid extra for it. It's surely different than teaching anuban (kindergarten), or at a private university. But if you're going to be the only farang who ever taught there, everybody including you and the administrators will be on a rough, steep learning curve. Small towns can be remote and provincial more than they need to be (and I only taught 30-some km from a huge urban center!).

If the staff and students have an exceptionally, extremely abnormal thirst to be fluent in English, go for it. Otherwise, run the other way. Of course, we've never been in your situation, but it sounds familiar. Send me a PM if you want more details of my experience as the first farang ever.

Thanks Peaceblondie. It's a bit of a weird situation really. The school itself is in a heavily touristic island. Almost all the children parents will work in the tourist trade and all of the kids would have had interactions with farangs. I think this is one of the reasons my friend is having so much trouble teaching at a nearby school - the kids have no fear, they see what farangs get up to in their spare time and there is no respect there.

But you are right in that it will be a learning curve to be the first farang at the school - and something am I am quite wary of. Have you ever taught your bog standard english classes to that age group or only EP?

[mssabai]

mssabai,

That is 'why' I suggested you go for a look around, find some other teachers and get a general 'feel' of the place.

Thanks jingjingna, as I said, there are currently no english teachers there, it is a small island school. There are two other english teachers on the island, both of whom I know and have spoken to. I am intending to go and look round the school next week, however, what I was really looking for was some insights into teaching that age group and at government schools vs kindergarten and private schools.

[TEFLMike]

I teach at a Girls chool in Chonburi. 14 to 15 years. M4 and M5. There are over 4 thousands students. I can hear a pin drop in class most of the times. Other times they are noisy. Just keep them them occupied and involved. There is no way you can keep all the class interested at any given time. I can have a lot of fun with them. Sometimes a lesson plan goes out of the window as some pupils do not arrive to the lesson due to other activities. I find that is nice, as I can then talk to each of the attendees as a small group and not as a full class. A more. cosy result transpires. Just go with the flow and it is easier to adjust

I must admit, prior to my return to the UK for Xmas, many girls, once they found out I was leaving for Xmas, started crying their eyes out. It appears as though I have acquired their trust an respect.

Personally, I am happier teaching the older age groups, than the younger.

Hope this helps.

[PeaceBlondie]

I did not teach in an EP, only an MEP wannabe and a 'special English' local program, at ancient Thai govt. matayom schools where the curriculum is set in stone except I could in many ways do what I wanted. Other than those select small classes who opted to pay more for intensive English study, the mass classes only had attentive students in the front row, 6 out of 48 students, ineffective textbooks, and the students had fossilized mistakes drummed into them by Thai English teachers who ....bless their hearts, good hearts....usually didn't know how to teach English. You might look for an early prathom position where you can mold them as English speakers.

[TEFLMike]

I did not teach in an EP, only an MEP wannabe and a 'special English' local program, at ancient Thai govt. matayom schools where the curriculum is set in stone except I could in many ways do what I wanted. Other than those select small classes who opted to pay more for intensive English study, the mass classes only had attentive students in the front row, 6 out of 48 students, ineffective textbooks, and the students had fossilized mistakes drummed into them by Thai English teachers who ....bless their hearts, good hearts....usually didn't know how to teach English. You might look for an early prathom position where you can mold them as English speakers.

I noticed the front row pupils are more attentive. Recently, I have reversed their seating and brought the back rowers to the front. I find now, they too, are becoming more attentive. :-) As for thai teachers: I totally agree with you.

[mssabai]

I did not teach in an EP, only an MEP wannabe and a 'special English' local program, at ancient Thai govt. matayom schools where the curriculum is set in stone except I could in many ways do what I wanted. Other than those select small classes who opted to pay more for intensive English study, the mass classes only had attentive students in the front row, 6 out of 48 students, ineffective textbooks, and the students had fossilized mistakes drummed into them by Thai English teachers who ....bless their hearts, good hearts....usually didn't know how to teach English. You might look for an early prathom position where you can mold them as English speakers.

Well I guess that's what I am doing at the moment with my 4 year olds! They really are a dream...just had a 2 hour lesson where me and the two (count them) Thai teachers were in hysterics at least 4 times at their antics. Biggest class size...13. I know, hate me....

All your comments have been really appreciated. Getting an idea of what to do, there are other factors involved than just the job such as the contract and the employer that I have to juggle but it's great to get your insights.

[dancemonkeydance]

It sounds like the job is almost identical to the one I'm in now - rural goverment school, M1-M3, 50+ students per class. The most important ability you need in this kind of job is flexibility - both the Thai teachers and the students won't really know what to expect from you, and you might end up with all sorts of confusion and odd behaviour surrounding you. But, if you can deal with it and adopt a typically Thai 'mai pen rai' attitude, teaching at goverment schools is far more satisfying than teaching a bunch of snotty nosed rich kids at private schools. The students are just so much more... fun.

[alaina]

Sorry to be the pessimist here, but I don't think this situation is set up for you to succeed. The school may be in need of a teacher for their teenagers, but as the first foreign teacher, that's already a daunting task. It would be better if the school found someone that had experience with this age group to be first as the problems that this age group has are very different than anaban.

But, if you do decide to go ahead with this age group a few things to keep in mind:

DON'T be their friend, do not even attempt it. Be prepared to be strict and for many of the kids to (seem to) not to like you

Make sure the kids understand classroom commands in English before moving onto the material.

Only get into disciplinary confrontations with kids if you know that you will win and how you will win. Attempt to ignore any that you can't win.

Figure out quickly what punishments work. Assigning extra homework doesn't work if the kids don't do it. Keeping the kids for silent time won't work if the kids won't keep silent, etc.

You will have good kids and they will sometimes be punished along with the bad kids in a big class.

I like teaching this age group as well, but the first few months of getting them to work with you is always the least pleasant time. Female teachers often find this age group harder on female teachers than male teachers as far as discipline goes.

[Scott]

If you really enjoy kindergarten, stay there. Mathyom is a whole different world and you really have to like those kids and that age group because they are a sort of 'nightmare'. I enjoy mathyom very, very much, but I see teachers all the time who move 'up' and it's a big mistake.

Stay with what you really like. Unless, of course, someone offers you so much money you can't refuse!

Best of luck to you.

[meme]

I have taught elementary kids for 4 years and just started teaching M3 and M4 at a government school. I seriously miss teaching younger kids. However although this is a government school it is rated number 3 in the south. It is a very good school, the English department is great the admin is fab, but going from teaching kids to teaching teenagers is hard!! I have also found that in Korea and Thailand, when kids are not used to having a foreigner teacher they tend to be much harder to deal with then kids who are used to us.

13 kids in your class? Your job sounds pretty sweet!

[Somtamnication]

I would suggest you go to that school and teach a class for a couple of hours and get a feel for the kids. Either they will respect you or they won't.

I teach M1 through M6. They can be a nightmare, but then, so can I. Establish your authority on the first day.