Thai's Educated With An Attitude?

[PaulUSA302]

On my first visit to Thaialnd, I did not know what to expect.... Dirt roads with chickens running from one yard to the other as a car or elephant walked by..... This was the impression I got from so many travel magazines and tourist books. Sure they were a little old, I bought them used on Amazon!

Anyway, on my arrival, I was met by a Western educated Thai. They were a friend of a friend of mine who lives in the USA. We (the Thai and I) exchanged e-mails over the months before my trip. I had many questions and they did not seem to mind answering them. Many of their e-mails were full of warnings as related to those who make their living from Non-Thai visitors.

When I arrived and we were in the Taxi to my hotel, they warned me about the Taxi's there. When I checked into my hotel, they asked the rate I was paying, I told them and they had my rate lowered. Once I got my room number we made plans to meet in the morning and they would show me around and go to MBK.....

The next day I noticed that my guide walked with purpose and the sea of Thai's who were in our path on the crowded sidewalk would part and we walked straight and steady. When we passed older thai's I would lower my head because I read about doing that in a guide book.. Not my Educated friend... They walked on as if they did not have time to play... No head lowering, no stepping aside, no wai's or smiles.... They did look shocked and hurt when I mentioned this to them and asked them if that is what they call being "High Headed?" (We were able to share this type of conversation without any problem).

They told me they did move out of others way and lower their head and I told them that when we walked, the only time there was a side step was when there was no other choice but to step-aside.

Another western educated Thai constantly warned me not to take any crap from his fellow Thai's. Now This guy did not look like an average Thai. I am sure he was of mixed blood. But I guess he looks Thai enough as he is now on TV in some Thai Drama.... Anyway When we were in Pattaya. A baht bus driver tried to get him to pay 20 baht for each for a total of 40 baht for the both of us. First he spoke to the driver in English asking him why? The driver simply held out his hand and wobbled his head around. Than he sternly talked to the driver again in Thai. The driver then became satisfied with the 20 baht he received for the short ride and drove away. "Don't take any CRAP while you are here! I hate the way my people treat visitors and hurt our reputation!"

With my friend not appearing to be Thai and me being an obvious foreigner... He was able to tell me what comments were being made about us as we passed some Thai's. Most of the comments were very complementary towards me, a few towards him, some were very rude where they were guessing on the size of my endowment..... I liked that part... being able to know what was being said by those who had no idea we understood every word... The not so fun part was that many times in our encounters with other Thai's who were either servicing or selling something. He became stern... No sheepish acting with him... He let them know that he was insulted by the way they would treat a Visitor, let them know that he was in fact Thai and then a change would take place. If in a restaurant, sides and other things would be placed on our table. He told me that this is the proper serving of the Thai dish I ordered but because I am a visitor they did not serve it to me until he asked about it....

I don't know if these are the best examples.... I think I am not able to give you the full flavor/attitude of the moment or their joy in catching and admonishing another Thai who would take advantage of a Visitor....

I wish I had the writing skills to share this topic in a way that best represented the subject line but I fear I don't....

Do any of you notice this, "Change" in demeanor/attitude of a western educated Thai?

[thedude]

dude this has nothing to do with western education. its just locals looking after your back, you should be thankful. thailand is not the mystical far east of your imagination. in city areas people behave like cityfolk everywhere. you are but one of maybe 35 million foreigners visiting thailand this year alone. thais are typically more respectful to other thais than to foreigners, with locals they will fall into their natural social order which you have no idea about. you WILL get ripped off here. get over it and enjoy your holiday.

Edited December 27, 2007 by thedude

[PaulUSA302]

dude this has nothing to do with western education. its just locals looking after your back, you should be thankful. thailand is not the mystical far east of your imagination. in city areas people behave like cityfolk everywhere. you are but one of maybe 35 million foreigners visiting thailand this year alone. thais are typically more respectful to other thais than to foreigners, with locals they will fall into their natural social order which you have no idea about. you WILL get ripped off here. get over it and enjoy your holiday.

I enjoy my holiday but I think there is a difference... But you say no.

So one fellow poster does not agree with me... Is there anyone out there that can agree with me or do you all think I am barking up the wrong tree?

[yorkman]

So one fellow poster does not agree with me... Is there anyone out there that can agree with me or do you all think I am barking up the wrong tree?

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. The more educated thai, and indeed those that consider themselves hi-so tend to have the same sort of attitudes to head ducking and all that.

As for the rest, its just a thai being your friend, or perhaps trying to portray themselves as being superior.

Of course a foreign education may well add to this attitude, but I can't really see it as the defining factor

[PaulUSA302]

I like to think of myself as perceptive when it comes to people and I tend to profile...

Profiling has always served me well here in the USA and when I came to Thailand I employed my

profiling skills once I met enough Thai people to begin to establish a base-line in personalities for profiling and it has served me well. I learned that with me I am not able to bargain well with older Thai women who have a certain look and style at the weekend market.

It has been a help but has also been a source of frustration at times...

Now I agree that profiling is not 100% reliable but it has served me well in my life and has helped me forge stronger friendships and helped me avoid would be friends that would turn out to be more trouble than they were worth.

I was sure there was a connection with Western Educated Thai's having a certain Attitude....

Am I that wrong? Dam! I hate being wrong!

[yorkman]

No, not wrong. It's just that it's not exclusive to western educated Thais, IMHO of course

And I would hope it does not apply to all western educated Thais. It is in any case, would you not agree, not a good idea to generalise about any group based on education, race, nationality, creed, sexual orientation or anything else?

I do appreciate that this was not your intent. Just pulling your leg

Edited December 27, 2007 by yorkman

[Rumpole]

you are but one of maybe 35 million foreigners visiting thailand this year alone.

I think your figures are a little off:

http://www.experiencethailand.com/news/rel...content-31.html

The Thai tourism industry is projected to end the year with a total of 13.8 million international visitor arrivals in 2006.

[PaulUSA302]

No, not wrong. It's just that it's not exclusive to western educated Thais, IMHO of course

And I would hope it does not apply to all western educated Thais. It is in any case, would you not agree, not a good idea to generalise about any group based on education, race, nationality, creed, sexual orientation or anything else?

I do appreciate that this was not your intent. Just pulling your leg

your right, I did not profile by group. I did it on an individual basis... I did it by things that mattered to the people I knew all my life and those I met and how they feel about things and others as related to how they look, speak and carry them self.

We all judge in similar fashion. If I were to go to a car dealer with shorts and a tee shirt and my twin entered the lot from the opposite side in a business suite, he would be seen as a potential buyer and I would be seen as a guy that is just looking...

If you are looking for a baby sitter you would hire the person that best fits your profile of what a babysitter would be.

We all do individual profiles on others... The only difference is that I acknowledged it and used it to my benefit.

We all judge.....

... a shady guy looking in your windows... (You may profile him as a potential thief)

... as you look at clothes in a shop and 2 women are waiting to haggle with you. One has a stern face and the other has a charming smile.... Which one do you haggle with? (Did you just judge them? Profile them?)

Maybe the word Profile is too strong... But for me in the USA it is an accurate word.

I don't know a single person that does not profile or judge.

Some first time posters are judged and profiled as being Troll's....

Other posters are judged and profiled as message board antagonists....

We judge and profile.... That is what I think....

[stevemiddie]

Interesting view.

The fact that a Thai had a Western Education would suggest to me that they are from a well to do family in any event and that they would treat some of the " lower" Thai,s in the same manner regardless of the fact they have been to the West?

[YoungAndRice]

the OP was incoherent and I have no idea what he is talking about or asking.

[Boo]

ok my husband is not western educated, hi-so of even medium-so grew up in rural thialand & has the same attitude as your friend. tells me constantly to keep an eye on my hangbag when out & about, to let him deal with the bartering cause I will probably be ripped off & has had a couple of run ins with thai men in the past who, not realising I am his wife, have made rude coments about my boobs or something similarly stupid. He doen'st need to bow his head when passing anyone (of any age) on the street, if they were in his home yes he would greet them with the proper procedure or if he had to step over someone or walk in front of someone who was watching \ tv screen or reading a poster then he may dip his head in polite apology but to pass an older person in the street, no, for what. Don't know any other thais of any education level who would do the same.

As for the idea that thais who are educated in the west having some kind of "attitude", hmm no don't think so. More like you have a fantasy idea of what thai people should or shouldn't do but it's like my husband telling you that you should eat hamburers, drink budwieser, talk very loudly & chew gum all day, cause thats what americans do right???

Thais are as individual as anyother person, there is no expectation that they would all do the same, react the same, have the same idea etc there is no "how to be thai" handbook they give to kids. So try not to overanalys too much, take your frineds concerns for you as a compliment. You may learn valueble lessons from them if you open your ears to listen

[stevemiddie]

the OP was incoherent and I have no idea what he is talking about or asking.

Incoherent to you.......sure. I understand what he is trying to say.

[kiakaha]

On my first visit to Thaialnd, I did not know what to expect.... Dirt roads with chickens running from one yard to the other as a car or elephant walked by..... This was the impression I got from so many travel magazines and tourist books. Sure they were a little old, I bought them used on Amazon!

Anyway, on my arrival, I was met by a Western educated Thai. They were a friend of a friend of mine who lives in the USA. We (the Thai and I) exchanged e-mails over the months before my trip. I had many questions and they did not seem to mind answering them. Many of their e-mails were full of warnings as related to those who make their living from Non-Thai visitors.

When I arrived and we were in the Taxi to my hotel, they warned me about the Taxi's there. When I checked into my hotel, they asked the rate I was paying, I told them and they had my rate lowered. Once I got my room number we made plans to meet in the morning and they would show me around and go to MBK.....

The next day I noticed that my guide walked with purpose and the sea of Thai's who were in our path on the crowded sidewalk would part and we walked straight and steady. When we passed older thai's I would lower my head because I read about doing that in a guide book.. Not my Educated friend... They walked on as if they did not have time to play... No head lowering, no stepping aside, no wai's or smiles.... They did look shocked and hurt when I mentioned this to them and asked them if that is what they call being "High Headed?" (We were able to share this type of conversation without any problem).

They told me they did move out of others way and lower their head and I told them that when we walked, the only time there was a side step was when there was no other choice but to step-aside.

Another western educated Thai constantly warned me not to take any crap from his fellow Thai's. Now This guy did not look like an average Thai. I am sure he was of mixed blood. But I guess he looks Thai enough as he is now on TV in some Thai Drama.... Anyway When we were in Pattaya. A baht bus driver tried to get him to pay 20 baht for each for a total of 40 baht for the both of us. First he spoke to the driver in English asking him why? The driver simply held out his hand and wobbled his head around. Than he sternly talked to the driver again in Thai. The driver then became satisfied with the 20 baht he received for the short ride and drove away. "Don't take any CRAP while you are here! I hate the way my people treat visitors and hurt our reputation!"

With my friend not appearing to be Thai and me being an obvious foreigner... He was able to tell me what comments were being made about us as we passed some Thai's. Most of the comments were very complementary towards me, a few towards him, some were very rude where they were guessing on the size of my endowment..... I liked that part... being able to know what was being said by those who had no idea we understood every word... The not so fun part was that many times in our encounters with other Thai's who were either servicing or selling something. He became stern... No sheepish acting with him... He let them know that he was insulted by the way they would treat a Visitor, let them know that he was in fact Thai and then a change would take place. If in a restaurant, sides and other things would be placed on our table. He told me that this is the proper serving of the Thai dish I ordered but because I am a visitor they did not serve it to me until he asked about it....

I don't know if these are the best examples.... I think I am not able to give you the full flavor/attitude of the moment or their joy in catching and admonishing another Thai who would take advantage of a Visitor....

I wish I had the writing skills to share this topic in a way that best represented the subject line but I fear I don't....

Do any of you notice this, "Change" in demeanor/attitude of a western educated Thai?

Attitude of said Thai is no different really to an expat who lives and has lived/worked in Thailand for a long period of time, speaks and reads thai etc... and is showing their tourist friends/family around town ushering them away from the riff raff and undesirables and deciphering/translating much of the superficial rubbish that is sold as Amazing Thailand.Peeling back the the glossy veneer so to speak.

[PaulUSA302]

Some of the things I talk on a message board about, I have already talked to my Thai friends about. Sometimes they say things and I make a post and try to relate what they have said to something I can relate to...

One of my friends told me that after living so long in the USA if is difficult to come back as if he never left.

Most times I simply post a topic to have a good conversation and to read other views... Shame most replies, even the good ones seem to have a personal insult in them.

[Travel2003]

The majority of the Thais with higher education I have met, and mingle with, really seem to behave a bit more arrogant.

Not with a bad attitude, but maybe a bit arrogant as they seem to feel (and are mostly treated) on a higher level then the regular worker.

This is, according to them quite normal in this country.

Having said that, they (the educated) do not treat other people bad.

I have never observed that.

There are quite a few rich ones that leave Thailand as so called A-students, in order to continoue studying abroad, just to return after failing many exams at the University they study at in Europe and USA.

Guess they have changed they attitude when they come home?

[Jimjim]

Regarding your original post, it is not normal as far as I have seen to wai the random person or even lower your head to elders when you're walking through a big crowd.

[micksterbs]

There are quite a few rich ones that leave Thailand as so called A-students, in order to continoue studying abroad, just to return after failing many exams at the University they study at in Europe and USA.

Guess they have changed they attitude when they come home?

Yeah, I think they get quite a shock when they get to a "real" university and realise that they might have to actually, horror, compete and start showing some intelligence. They have been brought up in a no-fail environment all their lives and then suddenly they're up against it.

[micksterbs]

Regarding your original post, it is not normal as far as I have seen to wai the random person or even lower your head to elders when you're walking through a big crowd.

Quite. Those guidebooks you mentioned PaulUSA302... Were they written in Latin?

[Naam]

Is there anyone out there that can agree with me or do you all think I am barking up the wrong tree?

that's exactly what i think. not because you referred to some western educated Thais but because you used the expression "an attitude" which is normally not understood by people not familiar with the american dialect

i think "we have a situation" here and Brits, Aussies, Kiwis and e.g. Germans who studied english might feel like being hit by "a two by four"... of course neither knowing what is an attitude nor what is a two by four

[Naam]

Thais are as individual as anyother person, there is no expectation that they would all do the same, react the same, have the same idea etc there is no "how to be thai" handbook they give to kids. So try not to overanalys too much, take your frineds concerns for you as a compliment. You may learn valueble lessons from them if you open your ears to listen

BRAVO Boo!

[Naam]

Yeah, I think they get quite a shock when they get to a "real" university and realise that they might have to actually, horror, compete and start showing some intelligence. They have been brought up in a no-fail environment all their lives and then suddenly they're up against it.

it goes without saying that we westerners are superior to any other ethnic group especially when these hail from a third world country.

but wait...! why did i have to try very hard when i studied at a german university maths, physics and mech. eng., -all lectures in my mother tongue- to keep up with my student colleagues from the african bush, indian and pakistani rural areas, etc.?

[ukjackthai]

There are quite a few rich ones that leave Thailand as so called A-students, in order to continoue studying abroad, just to return after failing many exams at the University they study at in Europe and USA.

Guess they have changed they attitude when they come home?

Yeah, I think they get quite a shock when they get to a "real" university and realise that they might have to actually, horror, compete and start showing some intelligence. They have been brought up in a no-fail environment all their lives and then suddenly they're up against it.

Wow, how wrong you are. I was educated in England before starting university in Thailand.

My views are totally opposite as I graduated in the top 25% of British students and now having problems in a THAI university. Catting to my friend the other day, he took a year off from a Thai school and went to America for a year, straight A's, gets back and his advisor says if you want to start the next year you will have problems because you did not learn the subjects to a certain degree.

Were any of you educated in Thailand? The syllabus is MUCH more complex to that of a western university - and yeah, most of the asian teachers SUCK.

[mrtoad]

Wow, how wrong you are. I was educated in England before starting university in Thailand.

My views are totally opposite as I graduated in the top 25% of British students and now having problems in a THAI university. Catting to my friend the other day, he took a year off from a Thai school and went to America for a year, straight A's, gets back and his advisor says if you want to start the next year you will have problems because you did not learn the subjects to a certain degree.

Were any of you educated in Thailand? The syllabus is MUCH more complex to that of a western university - and yeah, most of the asian teachers SUCK.

I'm a little confused, but are you undertaking post graduate study? As students do not graduate prior to attending University in the United Kingdom.

I think comparing a syllabus on complexity is also like comparing apples with oranges, and I'm pretty certain that teaching and learning methods are pretty different in Thailand compared to in the UK, hence the difficulty in adapting to what lecturers/tutors want from their students.

I am not going to get into the debate about which Universities are best, Thai or British, as it's been discussed pretty frequently here.

[Travel2003]

Yeah, I think they get quite a shock when they get to a "real" university and realise that they might have to actually, horror, compete and start showing some intelligence. They have been brought up in a no-fail environment all their lives and then suddenly they're up against it.

it goes without saying that we westerners are superior to any other ethnic group especially when these hail from a third world country.

but wait...! why did i have to try very hard when i studied at a german university maths, physics and mech. eng., -all lectures in my mother tongue- to keep up with my student colleagues from the african bush, indian and pakistani rural areas, etc.?

The point is not about ethnic groups, or about the educational system.

The educational system in this country has been discussed quite a lot here already.

Numerous of cases where rich kids are caught cheating, where the punishment is, to take the very same exam over again. But without the notes they brought with them first time.

Needless to say maybe, but their parents are contributing to the University.

It is not about how students performs in Germany. That is probably discussed in an expat Forum in Germany.

Nor is it how the rest of us perform at our university back home where we come from.

I did well, but never claimed to be an A-student, and would have failed each and every exam in a university in Thailand. Unless the classes and exams were in English.

The post is still about attitude.

[ukjackthai]

Wow, how wrong you are. I was educated in England before starting university in Thailand.

My views are totally opposite as I graduated in the top 25% of British students and now having problems in a THAI university. Catting to my friend the other day, he took a year off from a Thai school and went to America for a year, straight A's, gets back and his advisor says if you want to start the next year you will have problems because you did not learn the subjects to a certain degree.

Were any of you educated in Thailand? The syllabus is MUCH more complex to that of a western university - and yeah, most of the asian teachers SUCK.

I'm a little confused, but are you undertaking post graduate study? As students do not graduate prior to attending University in the United Kingdom.

I think comparing a syllabus on complexity is also like comparing apples with oranges, and I'm pretty certain that teaching and learning methods are pretty different in Thailand compared to in the UK, hence the difficulty in adapting to what lecturers/tutors want from their students.

I am not going to get into the debate about which Universities are best, Thai or British, as it's been discussed pretty frequently here.

I completed secondary school in England and now am undertaking a BA in Thailand.

I am studying at a Catholic international university where the teaching medium is English - I have had no previous difficulties in "adapting" to teaching methods as in England we change teachers annually; the teaching methods are pretty much the same, but the curriculum is much more advanced to anything I’ve seen in England. Try studying calculus at ABAC then at a British university and you'll see what I mean.

I've no shadow of a doubt that British universities are better, in all areas, compared to Thai universities.

[mrtoad]

Try studying calculus at ABAC then at a British university and you'll see what I mean.

I have no desire to study Calculus thanks , as it is totally irrelevant to my field of work or previous studies.

[ukjackthai]

Try studying calculus at ABAC then at a British university and you'll see what I mean.

I have no desire to study Calculus thanks , as it is totally irrelevant to my field of work or previous studies.

'tis what we have to do to get a BA in business administration...

Never, will I get into a career path that involves accountancy!!!

Back to the OP's question. I belive most of the western educated Thais hold an air of arrogence somehow, I just can't put my finger on why though....

[mrtoad]

Try studying calculus at ABAC then at a British university and you'll see what I mean.

I have no desire to study Calculus thanks , as it is totally irrelevant to my field of work or previous studies.

'tis what we have to do to get a BA in business administration...

Never, will I get into a career path that involves accountancy!!!

Back to the OP's question. I belive most of the western educated Thais hold an air of arrogence somehow, I just can't put my finger on why though....

I feel sorry for you having to do the calculus.

Anyway back on track........

It's probably something top do with the fact that the Western Educated Thai's are mainly from the more wealthy sector of Thai society, and hence the deeply engrained class system would certainly have some relevance to this and their arrogance.

[Dakhar]

I sat in a meeting with some of the so called "leaders of Thai" education, and none of them had an e-mail address. Check that.... one did, but she had not used it so long that she could not remember her e-mail address. Wow.... I was impressed.

To the topic.

My wife has a MS out of the US, and her Thai collegues with Thai MS degrees treat her as if she is beneath them. They get in a huff if she does not refer to them as "Ajarn" although they have never taught a day in their life. My wife is not refered to by them as "Ajarn" either and she teaches medical subjects for private companies.

I get the same attitude from the Thais too with MS degrees and I have a Doctorate.....

I think if anything, Thais develop an attitude while living abroad, that Thailand is suffering from self-granduer.

[Chris Lawrence]

Paul, why didn't you just move on and find a friend better matching your profile assessment. The reason I say that is that why stick with a headache. I hear from your post that you were embarrassed as to how this person acted in public with you.

The thing that I pick up here is some people are dickh@@ds. So if I choose to hang around people like this I may be tared with the same brush.

Some people lack compassion. You are going to see this no matter where you go or associated with different class systems.

But then again this person may have also given you a valuable insight into the difference or perception on how westerners are treated by street educated Thais?