Us Customs Stopping People With Laptops

[Langsuan Man]

I really think it is not completely legal to search American citizen laptops who have NOT done anything wrong before hand.......

It has been an accepted legal principle that the United States Customs Service has the right to search any and all persons entering the borders in the United States without a warrant and without probable cause. This ability comes down from many years of legal precedents, and has been expanded to include any searches for contraband of any kind in any place. Any local police force can request the assistance of Customs to assist in searches for contraband that are no where near a US border.

It is akin to the Internal Revenue Service having the right to audit any taxpayers income tax return, also without probable cause or a warrant. The IRS can also freeze your bank account without any judicial review or appeal. This is why American citizens cannot take advantage of any of those "off shore" tax havens that the rest of the world is privy to. In fact US citizens are subject to a $10,000 fine just for having a foreign bank account and not reporting it to the IRS (whether that bank account makes any money or not).

Other than the new rules for passports and airport "screenings" not a whole lot has changed since 911 and your chances of being stopped and searched at a US entry port are still quite small.

Also I might add that you have two separate government agencies at a US entry point. The first line is the Immigration and Naturalization Service who checks your passport. And the US Customs Service who conduct the baggage and personal screenings. Although they are different agencies they work in cooperation and most of what they do is done in the background and is based upon profiles obtained by observation of many travelers on a daily basis. There is a representative, if not a full office of both Customs and Immigration, assigned to every US Embassy in the world who work closely with foreign governments and provide a large amount of information prior to anyone even boarding a plane or ship.

Plus there is the random factor that is built into the system. As mentioned before the IRS does not audit every taxpayer's return but will select some at random for an audit. It is that fear of the random audit that keeps most people honest when it comes to paying taxes.

LSM

[Naam]

old shrivelled bitch in Atlanta: "what is the purpose of your visit?"

my wife: "we have a house in Florida"

old shrivelled bitch in Atlanta: "that's not a valid reason to enter the United States!"

That is incredible.

it might sound incredible but is the truth JT. it happened in december 2003 when my wife returned from London. she was in tears when she called me from Atlanta (after she finally got the entry stamp). three months later our home was sold and we left although both of us would have liked to stay on. by the way, we were taxpayers and until recently got once a year a message from the IRS that we should claim the prepaid taxes for the first quarter of 2004 by submitting form 1040.

addendum: America is a beautiful country. you have a choice of climate. you have a choice of landscape. you have a choice of each and everything that no country on this planet provides. so what if a moron sits in the White House? does he bother you when you have fun with your dogs on your fifty acres in Iowa or when you are on your boat in Florida? the many americans i have met (after passing immigration) were all friendly and helpful. why american citizens prefer to live in Thailand is a mystery to me. and the answer to your question "then why the eff do you live in Thailand?" is quite simple, namely "i can't afford to live in my expensive and till the last detail regulated freaking home country Germany" except for a couple of dozen friends i can't stand Germans in Thailand or the Christmas Islands. living in Germany surrounded by 80 million german @ssholes would be a nightmare.

[RKASA]

   My wife and I have been all over the world, both togather and traveling alone.  Never have we really had a problem anywhere, and even US entering has aways been easy.  (a duty fee in Bangkok, agh)   All but for one time and it was not in the US.  My wife traveled alone back to the US from Thailand and changed planes in Hong Kong (1978) and they went into everything and made her undress and checked her body, YES! you know what I mean, and for no reason but she was Thai and traveling alone.  It was only a four hour delay for another plane?  They were rude and had a thai speaking person there that kept asking her if she was a prostitute.  Nether of us has ever been back to Hong Kong even to change planes we don't fly that way.  She had a Thai passport a green card and a US military dependent ID card which showed my name, rank and number.  They can search anything, anybody, anytime, anywhere, even if your not staying, not just the US doing this and its nothing new.  As for checking a laptop, no problem seen worse things.

[freitag1]

On some european borders they run even checks for serial numbers. That's quiet scary. Truecrypt is a good way to keep them out. You can also give your truecrypt folders weird names and hide them within cache files for example. You can just say you forgot the passphrase they won't be able to crack the truecrypt algorithm and you just loose your harddrive.

[freitag1]

oh and about the us. next year a new system will be introduced and they will want all your fingerprints instead of just two like it is right now. the tourism to the states dropped 17% last year. just some stats but i don't care anyway. the us would be the last place i would be interested in visiting.

[kayo]

some of us had positive experiences. once we were singled out and had to open the suitcases. my heart started to race and i nearly shat in my pants when i saw in my wife's suitcase a big transparent plastic bag (perhaps 2 kilos) containing a white-yellowish powder.

-what's this ma'am?

-i use it for face masks. you mix it with water and...

-your face looks okay to me ma'am. close the suitcases sir.

after passing customs i was seriously considering to administer a beating but there were too many witnesses around.

^ I was wondering about tourism.

There's been a recent wave of advertisements/commercials on British television by the American Tourist Board, promoting their country.

Of course, in the ads there is no mention of the facts that:

They will eyeball scan you

Fingerprint you

must have one of these new fangled Biometric passports...

scan your laptop

etc...

[pTh]

Has anyone taken a laptop computer From Thailand through US Customs at San Francisco airport in the last two or three months? (6 - 10/09)

Any new developments? SOS? ??? I would appreciate any tales of any experience(s).

I was born in US, have US Passport.

I understand they CAN search hard drives. Are they still?

(I'm NOT asking about going From US To Thailand.)

Thanks.

pTh

[britmaveric]

Entirely possible.... looking for dodgy photos/videos. You have nought to worry about unless you are a pedo.

[pTh]

Entirely possible.... looking for dodgy photos/videos. You have nought to worry about unless you are a pedo.

Nothing to hide - I just have a lot of tourist fotos & don't really want to wait while they look at 200 pic.s of Issan farms & upcountry clouds & Chiang Mai waterfalls, etc.

IF I put the fotos on CDs, THEN will they want to look at all those?

Thanks.

pTh

[britmaveric]

Last time I was through the lad got bored after first 50 photos of Angkor Wat and gave up. Think the lad wished he hadnt flagged me - more work for him and no result.

Edited October 13, 2009 by britmaveric

[Beggar]

When I went there last time I had a lot of Thai noodle soup with me for friends. I had to open my luggage and a noodle soup and switch on my notebook what was checked long time. Then I had to undress almost completely.

I think it is a very sick country with a very sick and very bankrupt government - nothing more... Will not go there anymore even if I lived there for some years and have relatives there. If they pay back their endless debts to many of us I might think again. But so far they took down the whole world only and don't stop

[nikster]

yes... on those extremely rare occasions when somebody with God Forbid a laptop arrives in the USA, they take 3 hours to search it.

Hmm-hm. Totally feasible plan.

I mean, open your eyes at the x-ray machine, I'd say about 50% of travelers have laptops. Even if they were keen on checking incoming laptops, the chances they'd pick you would be exceedingly small from the numbers alone.

So unless you have attracted their attentions otherwise, they'll leave your laptop alone. I have had my luggage searched on a few occasions, but they never bothered to check my hand luggage, or take out the laptop and check that.

Also there are only very few things that would be outright illegal in the USA. I don't believe the US customs would bother about music ("I've ripped that from my CDs, officer") or films, or even illegal software - all of that is way too difficult to verify as illegal. They might ask you a few cheeky questions maybe if you have lots of movies. But that's about it - they do these things so that you may incriminate yourself, but in actuality if you give the right answers they have to let you go. Just don't be a smart ass because they hate that, and they actually can deny almost anybody entry if they really want to. Child pornography is the only thing that comes to mind that would really interest them. Unlike Thailand, plain old pornography is legal in the USA.

[nikster]

There's been a recent wave of advertisements/commercials on British television by the American Tourist Board, promoting their country.

Of course, in the ads there is no mention of the facts that:

They will eyeball scan you

Fingerprint you

must have one of these new fangled Biometric passports...

scan your laptop

etc...

Yeah but I think in the meantime they have harassed so many people at the borders that everyone knows this. I think a critical mass of people has been harassed. My mom knows it, everyone I know tells me that US border checks are the worst by far. I guess Europeans aren't used to being treated like criminals or terrorists - we take it kinda personal. So all those ad dollars are a complete waste IMO. America and friendly to tourists just doesn't fit. US Tourism must be at the lowest levels ever right now.

[britmaveric]

^actually I heard yank tourisim is doing quite well - least with European travelers.

[nikster]

BTW - is SFO the worst? Because I sure think so, I always go there, and have had many problems with the eternally suspicious customs & border guys there. In my case, because I have a greencard, it's always about whether I am about to or intend to give up my residency. They can't seem to get their head around the idea that if I didn't want to live in America I sure as hel_l wouldn't want to pay US taxes every year - but they they are not the brightest chaps around...

Anyway, SFO seems worse than any other border I have come in on. I liked Houston the best, actually, of all places. The border guard there didn't ask me any questions. He just saluted (!) and said "welcome back, Sir!". Now that is how it should be.

[Beggar]

^actually I heard yank tourisim is doing quite well - least with European travelers.

Sure we should not give up. Pretty soon the US might be a better deal than many countries in Asia. The $ goes to nothing and we go to the US and let them work for us. There are even endless cheap houses on the market we can legally own. Have to get used to Miller and table dance... Miller might help for the last thing too...but then the new paradise might be there Greenspan, Bernanke we thank you!!!

Edited October 13, 2009 by Beggar

[OriginalPoster]

...

Edited October 14, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[OriginalPoster]

BTW - is SFO the worst? Because I sure think so, I always go there, and have had many problems with the eternally suspicious customs & border guys there. In my case, because I have a greencard, it's always about whether I am about to or intend to give up my residency. They can't seem to get their head around the idea that if I didn't want to live in America I sure as hel_l wouldn't want to pay US taxes every year - but they they are not the brightest chaps around...

Anyway, SFO seems worse than any other border I have come in on. I liked Houston the best, actually, of all places. The border guard there didn't ask me any questions. He just saluted (!) and said "welcome back, Sir!". Now that is how it should be.

That's a reasonable question the immigration officer asked you if are you holding a greencard and you are telling him that you don't live in America. It would be even more a of red flag if you react as you describe above. Greencards do not provide lifelong unconditional permanent residency in the US, if a person holding a greencard moves to another country to live there permanently or does not file anual income tax returns they can lose their greencard involutarily. So when you tell him that you "didn't want to live in America I sure as hel_l wouldn't want to pay US taxes every year", it makes it sound as if you have renounced your US residency and that your greencard might be subject to revocation.

Edited October 14, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[nikster]

BTW - is SFO the worst? Because I sure think so, I always go there, and have had many problems with the eternally suspicious customs & border guys there. In my case, because I have a greencard, it's always about whether I am about to or intend to give up my residency. They can't seem to get their head around the idea that if I didn't want to live in America I sure as hel_l wouldn't want to pay US taxes every year - but they they are not the brightest chaps around...

Anyway, SFO seems worse than any other border I have come in on. I liked Houston the best, actually, of all places. The border guard there didn't ask me any questions. He just saluted (!) and said "welcome back, Sir!". Now that is how it should be.

That's a reasonable question the immigration officer asked you if are you holding a greencard and you are telling him that you don't live in America. It would be even more a of red flag if you react as you describe above. Greencards do not provide lifelong unconditional permanent residency in the US, if a person holding a greencard moves to another country to live there permanently or does not file anual income tax returns they can lose their greencard involutarily. So when you tell him that you "didn't want to live in America I sure as hel_l wouldn't want to pay US taxes every year", it makes it sound as if you have renounced your US residency and that your greencard might be subject to revocation.

Indeed. I'd never say that.

I do live in America, work for an American company, and pay US taxes. I just spend a lot of time out of the country these days. I am well aware of the greencard rules, thanks.

[IHateCaptcha]

Has anyone taken a laptop computer From Thailand through US Customs at San Francisco airport in the last two or three months? (6 - 10/09)

Any new developments? SOS? ??? I would appreciate any tales of any experience(s).

I was born in US, have US Passport.

I understand they CAN search hard drives. Are they still?

I too am American and do this trip regularly (most recently in August). Each time I have my laptop in a shoulder bag in full view and they have never asked to examine it...and I likely fit the profile of a pedo...middle-aged male traveling alone with multiple trips to Thailand (and with Cambodian visas in my passport). They have always been very polite and I just wizz through immigration and customs without a hitch...but I have friends with almost the same profile as me and they get stopped for secondary questioning or search almost every time they enter...go figure

[OriginalPoster]

BTW - is SFO the worst? Because I sure think so, I always go there, and have had many problems with the eternally suspicious customs & border guys there. In my case, because I have a greencard, it's always about whether I am about to or intend to give up my residency. They can't seem to get their head around the idea that if I didn't want to live in America I sure as hel_l wouldn't want to pay US taxes every year - but they they are not the brightest chaps around...

Anyway, SFO seems worse than any other border I have come in on. I liked Houston the best, actually, of all places. The border guard there didn't ask me any questions. He just saluted (!) and said "welcome back, Sir!". Now that is how it should be.

That's a reasonable question the immigration officer asked you if are you holding a greencard and you are telling him that you don't live in America. It would be even more a of red flag if you react as you describe above. Greencards do not provide lifelong unconditional permanent residency in the US, if a person holding a greencard moves to another country to live there permanently or does not file anual income tax returns they can lose their greencard involutarily. So when you tell him that you "didn't want to live in America I sure as hel_l wouldn't want to pay US taxes every year", it makes it sound as if you have renounced your US residency and that your greencard might be subject to revocation.

Indeed. I'd never say that.

I do live in America, work for an American company, and pay US taxes. I just spend a lot of time out of the country these days. I am well aware of the greencard rules, thanks.

So then your rant was hyperbole? I thought that I quoted you exactly. I wonder how many other claims of mistreatment that we read in this forum are overstated similarly.

[toptuan]

I found that if you want to be hasseled going into the US pay for your ticket with cash. That really upsets them and they go through everything.

This has and will never happen. USA is not on my list of recommendable countries.

This is music to the ears of many Americans who would like to see more secure borders. Tell your friends to stay away too!

[fantuzi]

I found that if you want to be hasseled going into the US pay for your ticket with cash. That really upsets them and they go through everything.

This has and will never happen. USA is not on my list of recommendable countries.

This is music to the ears of many Americans who would like to see more secure borders. Tell your friends to stay away too!

TopTuan you are truly SpeedyGonzales - 2 years lag??What have you been doing so long?Composing these 2 sentences...?

[rakman]

I found that if you want to be hasseled going into the US pay for your ticket with cash. That really upsets them and they go through everything.

And one way (or using two carriers) will get you the coveted "S" on your ticket.

Now that an Al Qaeda terrorist tried to blow up the Saudi Security honcho with a pound of explosives up his rectum (man that must have hurt) detonated via cell phone (ouch) wait for the cavity searches to begin.