How Does The Air Quality In Chiang Mai Affect You?

[Ulysses G.]

Forget about statistics and radioshack testing gizmos and what neurotic expats say, how do you feel about the air quality in Chiang Mai?

Edited December 31, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Thank you and thanks for the extra answer!

Edited December 31, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[Tywais]

Fixed plus added one if you don't mind.

[Ajarn]

Mentaly, it bothers me a bit, physically, it never bothers me.

[swain]

Forget about statistics and radioshack testing gizmos and what neurotic expats say, how do you feel about the air quality in Chiang Mai?

I cant remember if your a smoker.. or.. maybe you are in a environment where smoking is happening all around you. But anyone that says they are not bothered by the smoke and ash in the air during the burning season may have a disability that in someway impairs their senses.

[Crow Boy]

Forget about statistics and radioshack testing gizmos and what neurotic expats say, how do you feel about the air quality in Chiang Mai?

I cant remember if your a smoker.. or.. maybe you are in a environment where smoking is happening all around you. But anyone that says they are not bothered by the smoke and ash in the air during the burning season may have a disability that in someway impairs their senses.

I have never smoked in my life and do not live near or around smokers. I do have friends who smoke but it is extremely unlikely that I have been adversely affected by their habit. I answered that I am never bothered by the smoke. Even when we had the very high levels of pollution last year it wasn't enough to cause me any problem. I have been here continuously for the last 5 and a half years and on and off in Thailand for many years more. Oh and when I did a medical three months ago for working off shore my lung capacity and examination was commented on by the examining doctor as being "extremely good"

CB

[swain]

Forget about statistics and radioshack testing gizmos and what neurotic expats say, how do you feel about the air quality in Chiang Mai?

I cant remember if your a smoker.. or.. maybe you are in a environment where smoking is happening all around you. But anyone that says they are not bothered by the smoke and ash in the air during the burning season may have a disability that in someway impairs their senses.

I have never smoked in my life and do not live near or around smokers. I do have friends who smoke but it is extremely unlikely that I have been adversely affected by their habit. I answered that I am never bothered by the smoke. Even when we had the very high levels of pollution last year it wasn't enough to cause me any problem. I have been here continuously for the last 5 and a half years and on and off in Thailand for many years more. Oh and when I did a medical three months ago for working off shore my lung capacity and examination was commented on by the examining doctor as being "extremely good"

CB

I have also been here for five years. I came from Los Angeles and when the Santa Anna winds blew we used to have some fairly bad days there. But this past year (during the burning season) my eys hurt constantly, I was always cleaning my eyes and the ducts free of whatever was getting in them. The smell of whatever was burning was overwhelming, I was getting winded quickly when swimming, and it got so bad at times that I could feel it on my skin. I tried to stay out of it as much as possible as they said that it was dangerous just to be outside. Very nasty stuff. I do not hang were smokers are doing their thing. I speak for myself and many others in my village in the Hang Dong section of Chiang Mai when I say this. Maybe inside the city was different but where I was it was very bad.

Edited December 31, 2007 by swain

[Ulysses G.]

I have never been a smoker and before I came to Chiang Mai I lived on the coast in California where the air is extremely clean. The funny thing is that I usually think my lungs are very sensitive because when I visit polluted cities like Manilla or sometimes Bangkok, I do a lot of coughing.

This poll in interesting because, so far, 35% of us are bothered quite a bit by the air in CM, but 65% of us are bothered very little. Is it possible that 1/3 of us have some sort of lung disease?

Edited December 31, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[KevinHunt]

Forget about statistics and radioshack testing gizmos and what neurotic expats say, how do you feel about the air quality in Chiang Mai?

I cant remember if your a smoker.. or.. maybe you are in a environment where smoking is happening all around you. But anyone that says they are not bothered by the smoke and ash in the air during the burning season may have a disability that in someway impairs their senses.

I've never smoked and I suffer the same disability - ie the smoke doesn't physically affect me either Any suggestions for a good doctor to sort me out?

[ZEAK]

Up until two days ago, I was going to buy land here and build a house. I was thinking about Samoeng as the air SEEMED fresher. However, I took a drive up there and could not get away from smoke from people burning. Very disheartening to see these beautiful little valley's in the mountains filled with slow rising smoke. I am now looking at buying by the coast, where offshore breezes can whisp away any pollutants....I hope. So, you could say that the air quality here affected a major investment decision.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe this topic should be pinned so that prospective tourists will realize that the great majority of people who visit Chiang Mai are not negatively affected by the air quality, however, people who have conditions or who are particularly sensitive should take precautions.

[KevinHunt]

Maybe this topic should be pinned so that prospective tourists will realize that the great majority of people who visit Chiang Mai are not negatively affected by the air quality, however, people who have conditions or who are particularly sensitive should take precautions.

Maybe it should be binned

[Crow Boy]

But anyone that says they are not bothered by the smoke and ash in the air during the burning season may have a disability that in someway impairs their senses.

I have never smoked in my life and do not live near or around smokers. I do have friends who smoke but it is extremely unlikely that I have been adversely affected by their habit. I answered that I am never bothered by the smoke. Even when we had the very high levels of pollution last year it wasn't enough to cause me any problem. I have been here continuously for the last 5 and a half years and on and off in Thailand for many years more. Oh and when I did a medical three months ago for working off shore my lung capacity and examination was commented on by the examining doctor as being "extremely good"

CB

I have also been here for five years. I came from Los Angeles and when the Santa Anna winds blew we used to have some fairly bad days there. But this past year (during the burning season) my eys hurt constantly, I was always cleaning my eyes and the ducts free of whatever was getting in them. The smell of whatever was burning was overwhelming, I was getting winded quickly when swimming, and it got so bad at times that I could feel it on my skin. I tried to stay out of it as much as possible as they said that it was dangerous just to be outside. Very nasty stuff. I do not hang were smokers are doing their thing. I speak for myself and many others in my village in the Hang Dong section of Chiang Mai when I say this. Maybe inside the city was different but where I was it was very bad.

I was merely commenting on your broad sweeping statement which in my case at least does not apply. Until a year and a half ago I lived in an apartment building to the rear of the Anusarn Markets so was in the midst of the city, now I live surrounded by rice farms, about half of which right now have their personal bonfire happening.

I think that a lot of people do overstate the case here, at the height of the problem last year I was still going for a run three times a week without problems. My dad was telling me that there were frequent reports in Australia highlighting the smoke and dust - oddly how almost immediately after the news item the commercial was for "Bali - we may blow you up in nightclubs but at least our air is cleaner than Thailand"

I have also said to many other people - if you suffer from any respiratory problems you are best advised to leave the area during the months of Jan-Mar which tend to be when the problem happens.

CB

[mild7even]

I am sure most of us are concerned "very little" about lung cancer too--until we get it.

I answered that I am bothered frequently by the air quality, but not necessarily by any illness or other symptoms. I run up to six times a week, in the old city, and I don't think my performance is affected that much by the air, and it hasn't made me sick yet.

However, what bothers me is the disgusting smell of the exhaust fumes.

Even a quick motorcycle ride around the city results in exposure to the foulness. Songthaews spewing black clouds, not to mention the tuk tuks and the poorly maintained private vehicles, including motorcycles. Upon returning home I find that my freshly laundered shirt now smells like an exhaust pipe.

How about sitting in the outdoor chairs at Black Canyon Coffee at Tha Phae gate? Ready for a constant whiff of tuk tuk exhaust with your espresso? It would "bother" me.

I guess the solution is to buy a car, or better yet, an SUV to avoid the fumes, right? And use my SUV to drive all the way to reservoir or the 700 year stadium so I can run in relatively clean air?

In case you missed it, that was irony.

I do understand how UG and others who make their living from a steady stream of visitors would like to minimize the reputation of Chiang Mai as a dirty place. But even those people without lung diseases probably would prefer not to smell like exhaust fumes.

Let's be honest: come and visit Chiang Mai and spend your money on bars and used books, but be prepared to stink like smoke. Maybe the TAT can hand out free clothes freshening spray at all ports of embarkation.

[Ulysses G.]

I do understand how UG and others who make their living from a steady stream of visitors would like to minimize the reputation of Chiang Mai as a dirty place. But even those people without lung diseases probably would prefer not to smell like exhaust fumes.

Let's be honest: come and visit Chiang Mai and spend your money on bars and used books, but be prepared to stink like smoke. Maybe the TAT can hand out free clothes freshening spray at all ports of embarkation.

Sorry, but now you are just being silly.

If you sit is a central place like "the outdoor chairs at Black Canyon Coffee at Tha Phae gate" in practically any town in Thailand - or America for that matter - of course you are going to be surrounded by car fumes. It is a main intersection for Buddha's sake.

I sit in an open shop about 15 meters from Thapae road and Thapae Gate all day, every day, and sorry, but I don't smell like smoke.

The truth is that most people who live here ALL THE TIME are bothered very little by the air and it just gets on my nerves when a few people who have some kind of medical conditions or who are overly sensitive keep shouting out that the sky is falling when it is not.

Edited January 1, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Contractor]

Air quality certainly bothers me on some days in the burning season so I try not to be in CM during that time. But other places are worse.

Slightly off-topic - pic of Hong Kong airport a few weeks back. Beautifully clear on the island, but Kowloon was unbearable.

[PeaceBlondie]

I voted in the last category, that it never bothers me at all. I believe that a year ago I swam outdoors every day, rode the bike through the streets, etc. I have never had respiratory problems, not lived in the same household with a smoker since 1961, can still hold my breath underwater for 68 seconds, etc.

The smell of tuk tuk exhaust may be due to them using LPG, but is that better for the atmosphere?

[mild7even]

I sit in an open shop about 15 meters from Thapae road and Thapae Gate all day, every day, and sorry, but I don't smell like smoke.

That's what you think!

[Ulysses G.]

I take about 3-4 showers a day and go swimming.

I'm pretty aware of how my clothes smell and the only time they smelled like smoke was last year during the very unusual occurance we had that was on TV and so forth. I might stink, but it is of chlorine rather than smoke.

[anonymouse]

I was in the UK for the two months last year when it was at it's worst so can't really judge.

In previous years it hasn't really affected me but I'd still like to see some changes regarding the burning of rubbish and some checks on exhaust fumes in the city. The real killer for me at this time of year is the heat.

[Ajarn]

I do understand how UG and others who make their living from a steady stream of visitors would like to minimize the reputation of Chiang Mai as a dirty place. But even those people without lung diseases probably would prefer not to smell like exhaust fumes.

Let's be honest: come and visit Chiang Mai and spend your money on bars and used books, but be prepared to stink like smoke. Maybe the TAT can hand out free clothes freshening spray at all ports of embarkation.

The truth is that most people who live here ALL THE TIME are bothered very little by the air and it just gets on my nerves when a few people who have some kind of medical conditions or who are overly sensitive keep shouting out that the sky is falling when it is not.

I agree with you 100%. Sure, they can come here to complain, but once heard, it is enough..

[Priceless]

Whenever this subject pops up (rather too often ) I go to the Pollution Control Department website and compare the data for Chiang Mai and Bangkok. With the possible exception for the famous few weeks in March of last year, Chiang Mai is almost constantly way better than Bangkok. Have a look at the following two graphs covering the last three weeks:

I wouldn't want to live in Bangkok but I love Chiang Mai!

/ Priceless

Edited January 2, 2008 by Priceless

[meadish_sweetball]

Thanks for posting that Priceless, interesting!

It doesn't say where in Chiang Mai the measurements are made though. Din Daeng is an area of Bangkok with quite heavy traffic, so a reasonable equivalent in CM would be the Rincome intersection, Chang Phueak Gate or so.

[Ulysses G.]

Whenever this subject pops up (rather too often ) I go to the Pollution Control Department website and compare the data for Chiang Mai and Bangkok. With the possible exception for the famous few weeks in March of last year, Chiang Mai is almost constantly way better than Bangkok. Have a look at the following two graphs covering the last three weeks:

I wouldn't want to live in Bangkok but I love Chiang Mai!

/ Priceless

Weren't the Chicken Little's statistics denying that Chiang Mai is better? That is the impression that I got.

[higgy88]

Thanks for posting that Priceless, interesting!

It doesn't say where in Chiang Mai the measurements are made though. Din Daeng is an area of Bangkok with quite heavy traffic, so a reasonable equivalent in CM would be the Rincome intersection, Chang Phueak Gate or so.

If you want an exact location in CM, look at the data from Uparaj Collage (Yupparaj Wittayalai School) located almost in the center of the old city, right across from the three kings monument.

[Priceless]

OK, so here are two more graphs, Uparaj College in Chiang Mai and Lad Phrao in Bangkok. Not quite as large a difference as in my earlier post, but still significant...

I think it all goes to show how little objective reality matters, it's what's in the newspapers that counts

/ Priceless

PS God fortsättning på det nya året, Meadish

[cm das]

I do understand how UG and others who make their living from a steady stream of visitors would like to minimize the reputation of Chiang Mai as a dirty place. But even those people without lung diseases probably would prefer not to smell like exhaust fumes.

Let's be honest: come and visit Chiang Mai and spend your money on bars and used books, but be prepared to stink like smoke. Maybe the TAT can hand out free clothes freshening spray at all ports of embarkation.

The truth is that most people who live here ALL THE TIME are bothered very little by the air and it just gets on my nerves when a few people who have some kind of medical conditions or who are overly sensitive keep shouting out that the sky is falling when it is not.

I agree with you 100%. Sure, they can come here to complain, but once heard, it is enough..

The results as they stand now show more people saying they are bothered by the air pollution all the time or often than those who say hardly ever or never, so I don't think it's fair to keep asserting that it's just a few who are making alot of noise. And as for complaining about the complainers, if such comments are in reference to earlier threads, then fair enough. But it's not fair to offer a poll & then jump on people for stating their opinion.

I voted for 'once in a while', but my experience is much more specific. For 11 months of the year, the air pollution only bothers me to the extent that the mountains are sometimes hazy or not visible at all. No big deal. But in March, the smoke in the air bothers me very much. I feel it in my eyes, my throat and, when I exercise, in my lungs. It's to the point where I try to leave Chiang Mai for as much of March as I can. And with this in mind, posting pollution data comparing Bangkok and Chiang Mai in December is beside the point. Finally, to suggest that my experience with the air in March is only due to my over-sensitivity or some kind of medical condition strikes me as silly. I might just as easily assume that those who aren't affected by the poor air have health that's so bad already that the addition of increased air pollution is negligible.

[Priceless]

I am not going to argue with those who claim that last March was quite dreadful, it was! However, what I do claim (unfortunately the Pollution Control Department only keeps the last three weeks' data on line) is that almost always when there is a new thread complaining about the pollution, the Bangkok data is much worse. (And frequently the CM data are quite good.) I realize that it is really my civic duty to make a screenshot of the PCD graphs every third week and keep them archived for future reference, but I do have a life to take care of.

Perhaps I should add that visibility, in terms of how clearly Doi Suthep stands out, is not a very good measure of air pollution. There is such a thing as humidity that can (and frequently does) give the same effect. A long time ago I spent almost 1½ years in England, flying out of Kidlington Airport in lovely Oxfordshire. We quite frequently had to cancel our flights due to poor visibility, but not once was this due to pollution, but rather because of high humidity condensing into tiny droplets, commonly known as mist or fog...

/ Priceless

PS I do not have a business that relies on income generated by tourists, in fact I am retired and would probably prefer the tourists to stay away and leave Chiang Mai to us residents. However, I don't want to drive them away to e.g. polluted Bangkok just to have the streets to myself (+ a few 100,000 Thais, expats et.al.).

PPS Please, I have the greatest respect and sympathy for those that, for medical or other reasons, suffer from the Chiang Mai air, be it polluted or not. To radically improve the air quality of an inland city situated like CM (i.e. encircled by mountains) will unfortunately probably require decades rather than months, which leads to the conclusion that any serious sufferers would probably do well in finding some other place to live.

[cm das]

I am not going to argue with those who claim that last March was quite dreadful, it was! However, what I do claim (unfortunately the Pollution Control Department only keeps the last three weeks' data on line) is that almost always when there is a new thread complaining about the pollution, the Bangkok data is much worse. (And frequently the CM data are quite good.) I realize that it is really my civic duty to make a screenshot of the PCD graphs every third week and keep them archived for future reference, but I do have a life to take care of.

Perhaps I should add that visibility, in terms of how clearly Doi Suthep stands out, is not a very good measure of air pollution. There is such a thing as humidity that can (and frequently does) give the same effect. A long time ago I spent almost 1½ years in England, flying out of Kidlington Airport in lovely Oxfordshire. We quite frequently had to cancel our flights due to poor visibility, but not once was this due to pollution, but rather because of high humidity condensing into tiny droplets, commonly known as mist or fog...

OK, you're excused on the grounds of having a life. On the one hand I think it's good to compare CM & Bangkok, just to remind us that even when it seems bad up north, we could be much worse off. On the other hand, just the fact that comparisons are made is kind of upsetting for those of us who cling to the perception (deception) that Chiang Mai is a nice little city surrounded by nature, in an entirely different league than Bangkok.

As for humidity, I agree that at this time of year there can be some heavy mist/fog. I saw it myself up in Chiang Dao last weekend. But the mist usually burns off by late morning, doesn't it? So I always attribute any afternoon haze to other kinds of particles in the air.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think it all goes to show how little objective reality matters, it's what's in the newspapers that counts

PS God fortsättning på det nya året, Meadish

Tack! Jag får önska detsamma.

The air does bother me a bit; I don't like waking up with dried-out eyes for example. But all things considered, I'd much rather live up here than in Bangkok. Tried Bangkok first but in the end I settled for Chiang Mai, and I am still quite happy with my choice - until the newspapers inform me I have snuffed it from respiratory arrest, of course.