Private Dancer

[richardb]

I recently had cause to visit Pattaya for a few days with my Thai Girlfriend. We went out to see some of my friends at some beerbars which was nervous about but ultimately ok with, chatting with some of the girls. We then moved on to Secrets, not quite a Go Go more a Coyote. She hated it and could not wait to get out. We left asap and she was like " how could you bring me to such a place".

Falang women in Go Go's I have seen a few times. Generally pissed as newts before trying to get on stage and flash their knickers thinking they are the life and soul of the party. This kind of misses the point of a go go in that the dancers are not employed primarily for their personality. It seems that after a few beers a competitive streak appears in some falang women in a go go. Not a pleasent sight.

Perhaps things are different in the boy go gos?

Richard

I should perhaps add for clarification that the European women I noted in Go Go's were tourits.

[richardb]

I thought it was an OK book, nothing special. It looked based on a few stories mixed together, combined with a few stereotypes. One thing that made it slightly more interesting was choosing a young guy, rather than the old guy stereotype as the protagonist.

One key factor in why it happens is naivety, plus a lack of having experienced anything similar before visiting Thailand. Why can't people see thru it all? If I think back to when I first came to work here, it would never have entered my mind that all these Thai bar girl antics exist. I started with zero first hand knowledge of this industry before coming to Asia, and had never knowingly even talked to anyone invovled in it before Thailand. Before coming here I would have laughed Private Dancer off as unbelievable and pure fiction. Fast forward to having spent a few years in Thailand, and the book seems pretty obvious, easy to see thru and predictable. I think that's mainly a reflection of the country, life here and a side of life you learn about, that you probably wouldn't do so in many other places.

BTW Anyone thinking it is limited to western guys and Thai females is kidding themselves. You can pick any combination of males/females western/thai here in Thailand, and there'll be similar stories. Obviously not the majority of relationships here, but enough to spot the themes.

A better book I thought was "Only 13". It's written from a Thai girl's perspective. It gets hijacked in the middle by western PC rhetoric on the industry, which sort of interrups the flow of the story for a while, before it resumes again. But otherwise it's a much more interesting book, with a much less mainstream/less stereotypical perspective of this type of subject than Private Dancer. I found it much more thought provoking.

Perhaps more commoly known as "My Name is Lon- You like me "

Richard

[gburns57au]

I have read it twice and I suggest that others do the same to get a better perspective of the story....It is not what it seems on the first read. So I must apologise to Mr Leather for some disparaging remarks I made to him about this book....However Mr Leather I still think it is not your best writing, I have read some of your other books. I agree with Mobi, in that...It is overly extreme and not really representative of the reality. For those that believe it is a true story...it is not. It is based loosely around his own experiences in Thailand and some characters that he had met. He had the supporting cast...included a couple of lead roles and built the story from there.

Funny someone mentioned "Money Number One"....I met Neil when he was touting the book around Pattaya on his second visit....giving away free calenders from a dating website....lol....He wrote it after his first trip to Thailand and I dont knock him for that....But again it is cliched and not entirely representative of the reality....He basically collated a lot of things garnered from bar stools and put it in a book.

Mobi....I know of more than one family where more than one daughter works in the scene. Many younger sisters will follow their older sisters because of the obvious advantages they see in the village. I know of a family where both daughters have worked in the industry and their niece is going as soon as she is legal...I also know of second generation where mother and daughters have worked in the industry.

Edited January 4, 2008 by gburns57au

[mikethevigoman]

Well I thought this thread was going to be about farang women visiting boys agogo bars etc etc and about do any of them lose it similar to the men? Wrong!

Anyhow off topic.

Well I know of one Irish lass back around '95 that used to hang around Pattaya soi 13 with her boyfriend we used to call number nine (his stage number apparently). He was quite a hunk and she did lose it big time, last I heard of her she was on massive overstay, went broke, got bailed out by family, went broke again and that was the last anybody saw or heard of her. So it does happen but very rarely, odd thing was she was a good looking girl and should have had no problem getting male company back home, maybe she had a bad experience who knows?

Back on topic.

When I worked for a large multi-national in Thailand we had a lot of guys with expat wives assigned to the office. After work on Fridays most of us used to congregate for an hour or so in a Beach Road gogo bar. Very often the expat wives would accompany their hubbys into the bar and seemed to enjoy themselves chatting mostly to the girls. When new guys were sent out it usually fell to some of the older hands to show them around town and exlain the ropes etc. Often some of the expat wives used to accompany the group on their tour of the seedy "show" bars and were quite amused by it all. But, by and large, they were down to earth unpretentious types, difficult to be anything else with hubby in the construction business, and they never seemed to feign the self righteous aloof attitude often voiced. Maybe they were/are different when in more elevated social circles.

As for Thai women in gogo bars I can only talk of that Beach Road establishment mentioned above. That place had a strict rule of no Thai women in the place before 7pm, other than the workers obviously.

But I do love the string of replys in this thread claiming "I never go to gogo bars they are boring". Yeah right we'll believe you, thousands wouldn't.

There is a great handbook to thailands red light areas called "Money number 1 ", if only all male visitors read and heeded the warnings ,fortunes and hearts would be saved, if only !

That assumes that:-

a. All male visitors can read.

b. All male visitors will take it on board and there'll be no "but my girl is different" syndromes.

mmm, yes true,. looking at some of the knuckle draggers with a bg on the arm i doubt they can read the sun headlines !,.best one i heard was, "mines different because its a geezer ' lol

[Patsycat]

I was taken to a go go in Samui one night by a male friend who thought he would shock me. The only thing that shocked me was his attitude!! And the fact that he insisted we sat at the bar and I got a good look up their skirts. I just found it ok, the music was good, and I wasn't the only western woman there.

I have also been to Nana and found it ok. I would go again because I am a terrible people watcher and you do see all sorts there.

I really like the Ladyboy shows - real family entertainment and fun.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Patsycat

[Mobi]

Mobi....I know of more than one family where more than one daughter works in the scene. Many younger sisters will follow their older sisters because of the obvious advantages they see in the village. I know of a family where both daughters have worked in the industry and their niece is going as soon as she is legal...I also know of second generation where mother and daughters have worked in the industry.

Yes, I also know of more than one family where several sisters are 'working'. Indeed I have a friend of over 30 years whose wife, her 3 sisters and her 2 sons are all involved one way or another in the 'business'.

But my personal experience in spending time in the villages in the North East is that typically, it is one daughter who works to support the others, put her sisters through school etc. It is quite illuminating at holiday times -Sonkran and the like - when you suddenly see a scattering of 'pretty', better dressed ladies at the Wats and around the village, and you learn that they are the ones back from the bars and massage parlours of the wicked world outside. But they are treated with the utmost respect, and not shunned in any way as far as I was able to observe.

Generally one per family from what I have seen.

But I may be wrong.

[kat]

I have read it twice and I suggest that others do the same to get a better perspective of the story....It is not what it seems on the first read. So I must apologise to Mr Leather for some disparaging remarks I made to him about this book....However Mr Leather I still think it is not your best writing, I have read some of your other books. I agree with Mobi, in that...It is overly extreme and not really representative of the reality. For those that believe it is a true story...it is not. It is based loosely around his own experiences in Thailand and some characters that he had met. He had the supporting cast...included a couple of lead roles and built the story from there.

Funny someone mentioned "Money Number One"....I met Neil when he was touting the book around Pattaya on his second visit....giving away free calenders from a dating website....lol....He wrote it after his first trip to Thailand and I dont knock him for that....But again it is cliched and not entirely representative of the reality....He basically collated a lot of things garnered from bar stools and put it in a book.

Mobi....I know of more than one family where more than one daughter works in the scene. Many younger sisters will follow their older sisters because of the obvious advantages they see in the village. I know of a family where both daughters have worked in the industry and their niece is going as soon as she is legal...I also know of second generation where mother and daughters have worked in the industry.

Yes, you are right, because the industry has grown beyond an informal sector to a major commercial sector with more demand, there are more daughters that enter the industry. This also parallels the foreign marriage market as well.

*And for the sake of the thread: yes I've been in strip clubs both in Western countries and in Thailand. It's not a big deal.

Edited January 4, 2008 by kat

[britmaveric]

Running for ping pong balls in high heels is quite amusing.

[kat]

Running for ping pong balls in high heels is quite amusing.

Those menus are a riot!

And yes, Zaza, right on to you.

[legag]

Brain brain brain .. could be as small as their balls!!! and not so productive as their d--- ....

mikethevigoman: mmm, yes true,. looking at some of the knuckle draggers with a bg on the arm i doubt they can read the sun headlines !,.best one i heard was, "mines different because its a geezer ' lol

Ouch!!!

Edited January 4, 2008 by legag

[kat]

Just to give you the other side of things. I once was married to a European woman that had graduated from a prestigious University and worked as a Bank manager. After a long courtship I presented her with an Engagement ring, which her Mother (the dear) immediately had appraised. I later found that her mother also had me checked out thoroughly through contacts at my bank etc.

Since then I am of the opinion that the difference between marrying the women that you mention from Thailand and those of the west is none. Prostitution is in my opinion unlicensed marriage, albeit temporarily, which some people seem to prefer to make more permanent in nature. I quite frankly appreciate the honesty. For my wife told me that if I took care of her and quit smoking she would provide me with a football team of children. We kept to our agreement and now have a large and happy family. She has gained stature within her little world and I found true happiness. And a funny thing happened while enroute to this goal over the last ten years, we fell in love.

Well, it could be more that like people find each other, rather than that ALL women are prostitutes. What a handy little homily to edify your rationalizations.

[jetjock]

I could not resist venturing into the Ladies forum when I saw the topic 'Private Dancer' which is a book that has been mentioned many times on the forum and I have been planning to eventually pick up. This topic has motivated me to pick it up soon as I always enjoyed the many books I have read with the backdrop of Thailand. I can still remember the first true story about LOS that I read very many years ago which is probably out of print now titled "My Wife in Bangkok".

Reading this topics posts has been as interesting as some of the books I have read since it seriously demonstates the many 'Men are from Mars-Woman are from Venus' truisms. I must admit I especially enjoyed the quote from 'Mangosauce' and the month 1 etc. from 'GetBackJoJo' so obviously I think like a guy.

As a man, I guess I will never understand why so many women are so quick to criticize or put down the way men, they do not even know, choose to lead their lives (assuming the men do not hurt anyone in the process). Why do some women seem to be irritated by the thought of guys who might choose to live their lives whoring around or throwing money away or getting cheated out of it! If some men choose to find pleasure and happiness with women half their age, shouldn't that be totally their choice and not a subject of women's critique! On the other hand, I think most men have much more of a laissez faire type philosophy and do not really give a dam_n what women do or have done with their lives unless it affects them directly. These differences in the way we think appear to be one of the reasons men seem to enjoy living in the Thai culture where they feel they can live like they choose to live without being the subject of criticism.

[britmaveric]

Running for ping pong balls in high heels is quite amusing.

Those menus are a riot!

And yes, Zaza, right on to you.

Zaza is a good lady. One can easily appreciate those Kat, def not hard when you set a lovely example!!!

[kat]

I never run for ping pong balls in heels Brit, or any of the other dubious activities listed on the bar menus outside of go go bars But, I know, you are just another charming Gemini, and you need to well, charm.

Hey - what happened to you in D.C., mate? Anyway, catch up with you next time.

*Hi Boo.

Edited January 4, 2008 by kat

[Boo]

wow I go offline for most of the day & the thread degenerates into (yet another...yawn) slagging off of western women & western men. How droll!!!!

I have deleted all the offending posts & subsequent replies, if no one can keep it on topic then it will be closed. This shouldn't have to turn into yet another critique of western women by western men or vise versa, the op was quite simple really, have you read the book & do you think it is accurate.

No one needs to know what western women think about western men & we for sure don't care about western mens thoughts on western women either (contrary to what some of you guys think, really, just get over yourselves will ya) so keep it off this thread & out of this forum please.

For fcuks sake.

[kat]

oh, well. I was starting to enjoy the target practice.

*But in this case, I didn't start a thing. I was completely innocent. Getting sleepy, I guess I'll go to sleep now. Nighty-nite.

Edited January 4, 2008 by kat

[the gent]

So was I.

Well, there you gogo it seems....

.....or should that be jojo?

Edited January 4, 2008 by the gent

[kat]

.... Get back.

[kat]

Hey Seonai, you like my new avatar? I followed your advice. It's quicker than changing hair color.

Back on topic: I think she looks like a stripper on a mission.

[scotwumman]

I have been in go-go bars in Lamai, Patong, Bangkok during my many travels to Thailand. I am an elderly lady (not at all

sexually orientated) and admit I have not read the book but intend to. May I say that I know of many young fellows from

the west some of them close family and whom I observe to be very reticent in their approach to young women at home

are very happy to pay hyped up annual airfares in the high season and forego their usual hardearned summer holiday to

observe or pay for the attention of some very pretty ladies and also enjoy the sun, missing here in winter, and the beauty

of the place itself. These places are fun to them and they are also fun to me, coming from a poor family myself and spent

most of my life working in a miserable, cold and grabbing government, regulated as it might appear. I know for sure that

once the holiday is over, so is the paying-that may change, one never knows. I just cannot condemn or comment on the

writer's own perception nor do I see what is wrong with people paying to be pampered. Supply and demand.

[Boo]

Never read the book or any of the similar as, being a western women the subject isn't aimed for me, would rather read a thriller. I have also never been in a gogo bar, I've sat at a couple of lady bars in Lamai & walking street but never anything more raunchy than a bored looking thai women polishing the pole, set behind the bar & chats with the girls about business. Never even been to Patpong. Too many other better places for me to go & I'm just not curious enough to bother. Got some family coming over next year so might take a trip to patpong then but I wouldn't go to a male strip show let alone a female one.

[kat]

Yeah, the male strip clubs are a riot. They are super cute, though. Many are actually straight.

*I'm trying on new avatars, btw. Nevermind my changing appearance, unless you want to tell me which one you like best.

Edited January 4, 2008 by kat

[britmaveric]

Yeah, the male strip clubs are a riot.

I know a place in Patters......... well not really a strip show, but gay gogo lads are hilarious. Not sure if they are trying to be funny, but me/gf were rather amused.

[kat]

Yeah, they give you a live sex show and everything. It cannot be easy for those guys though, walking around in a cock ring all night and getting fcked in front of everyone.

[Boo]

Anything like that just makes me cringe, was a re run on tele last night, the boy band Boyzone was on an irish talk show well before they got famous & I had to put my head under the covers cause they were making me cringe so much, they were just sort of gyrating & pumping all around the stage in no shirts & tight jeans. Just makes me kind of sick & male strippers give me the same feeling (we need a projectile vommiting smilie!)

Here is the link.

[the gent]

Yeah, the male strip clubs are a riot.

I know a place in Patters......... well not really a strip show, but gay gogo lads are hilarious. Not sure if they are trying to be funny, but me/gf were rather amused.

Ummm, and whose idea was it to venture therein, yours or the " gf " ?

[Boo]

found one

vomit_31.htm

[kat]

That's a subtle one, innit.

I know what you mean about the cringe factor. That's how I felt in the girls go go, with them pulling out razor blades and all sorts of unlikely appliances. I know the razors are coated, but whose idea of fun is that??? Not hers, I can assure you. They all looked bored out of their minds.

[britmaveric]

Yeah, the male strip clubs are a riot.

I know a place in Patters......... well not really a strip show, but gay gogo lads are hilarious. Not sure if they are trying to be funny, but me/gf were rather amused.

Ummm, and whose idea was it to venture therein, yours or the " gf " ?

Well her idea obviously and mate of mine owns one of those establishments so no worries. I took her and one of her mates - the gogo boy said I have lady mak mak. Wanted to take one of them home. Mind you shows they arent really gay, but thats another topic.

[seonai]

Hey Kat Babe... the new avatar is much more YOU if you see what I mean. Excellent choice. My new years one is ME coloured hair and a bit funky and off the wall ... not as cute as her though. But yours is much more like you honey.

On topic... I did the rounds of the male strip bars in Pattaya for pure research purposes and have to say that, after several interviews, the scene was sad all round - the eggs out of bottoms was a first though