No End In Sight As South Thai Rebellion Enters Fifth Year

[sriracha john]

Just what part of "anyone" is unclear to you? Be they Prime Minister, General, or Private, they were wrong. I don't dodge something by accusing someone of flaming. I accuse someone of flaming when they flame. Is that also unclear?

Edited July 6, 2008 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

Just what part of "anyone" is unclear to you? Be they Prime Minister, General, or Private, they were wrong. I don't dodge something by accusing someone of flaming. I accuse someone of flaming when they flame. Is that also unclear?

I'm afraid it is unclear.You do have a history of accusing any contrary opinions of flaming, but that's not the important point.I don't feel strongly about it.

You cannot however a propos the Krue Sae massacre deflect by Uncle Tom Cobley type generalisations such as those you make above from the prime culpability of PAD supporter and Chamlong crony General Wallop.Why not just specifically concede the point? It would be an important first step to some intellectual honesty.Otherwise I'm afraid the charge of dodging the truth will stick.Up to you really.

[sriracha john]

Just what part of "anyone" is unclear to you? Be they Prime Minister, General, or Private, they were wrong. I don't dodge something by accusing someone of flaming. I accuse someone of flaming when they flame. Is that also unclear?

I'm afraid it is unclear.

Let me help you

Your weasle words

That's flaming

You do have a history of accusing any contrary opinions of flaming,

Please provide examples.

but that's not the important point.I don't feel strongly about it.

Yet you feel compelled to mention it continuously.

You cannot however a propos the Krue Sae massacre deflect by Uncle Tom Cobley type generalisations such as those you make above from the prime culpability of PAD supporter and Chamlong crony General Wallop.Why not just specifically concede the point? It would be an important first step to some intellectual honesty.Otherwise I'm afraid the charge of dodging the truth will stick.Up to you really.

*sigh*... Let me help you again...

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Entry: anyone

Definition: any person at all

However to address your comment directly I repeat once again, that the "prime" culpability rests with Thaksin, with acknowledgement that "anyone" between him and the lowest Private shares responsibility.

Edited July 6, 2008 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

However to address your comment directly I repeat once again, that the "prime" culpability rests with Thaksin, with acknowledgement that "anyone" between him and the lowest Private shares responsibility.

You haven't answered my point directly.I know it.You know it and the rest of the forum knows it.I suppose I had assumed you might have some understanding of military officers taking responsibility for actions of subordinates.In the Krue Sae massacre there is some compelling evidence Wallop personally took key decisions leading to the barbarity that followed.He is now a leading light in PAD.You clearly refuse or lack the intellectual credentials to have a proper debate on this, so I'm calling it a day.

For those who are interested and don't have the relevant background check out General Pallop on Wiki.

[sriracha john]

As well as the usual suspect who attempts to chastise others who have been posting on the Southern issues for over four years and who focused on the mayhem and not which particular government was in charge at the time over that timespan. But hey, if they can try to turn the focus on posters rather than the issues in an effort to try to score some cheap points, why not? That's been the M.O. from the git go, irregardless of the issue discussed.

However to address your comment directly I repeat once again, that the "prime" culpability rests with Thaksin, with acknowledgement that "anyone" between him and the lowest Private shares responsibility.

You haven't answered my point directly.I know it.You know it and the rest of the forum knows it.I suppose I had assumed you might have some understanding of military officers taking responsibility for actions of subordinates.In the Krue Sae massacre there is some compelling evidence Wallop personally took key decisions leading to the barbarity that followed.He is now a leading light in PAD.You clearly refuse or lack the intellectual credentials to have a proper debate on this, so I'm calling it a day.

For those who are interested and don't have the relevant background check out General Pallop on Wiki.

Good day and thank you for proving my initial point made before you went on your seemingly endless diatribe.

[BSJ]

The situation maybe solved with the construction of a wall along the border, a la the Israeli solution. Once the wall was complete all the Mooslums in Thailand could be escorted over the border....permanently if necessary. The number of troups needed to protect the wall would be in the several hundred in number and regular daily coastal patrols would be needed, but the affected area would be secure. Police and immigration could man the few border crossings. I think thats a great solution.

[Scott]

I got caught up in you guys heated discussion and sort of lost the plot.

I am one who focuses on the mayhem--I don't wish for it, but it is a reality. There isn't much worse than living your life in terror. The effect that it has on children lasts a lifetime and often they become unnecessarily violent as well.

[apetley]

The situation maybe solved with the construction of a wall along the border, a la the Israeli solution. Once the wall was complete all the Mooslums in Thailand could be escorted over the border....permanently if necessary. The number of troups needed to protect the wall would be in the several hundred in number and regular daily coastal patrols would be needed, but the affected area would be secure. Police and immigration could man the few border crossings. I think thats a great solution.

So your suggesting that Thailand deport millions of it's own citizens to a foreign country based purely on them being Muslim?

[Scott]

These things tend to sound effective, but in practice they usually aren't. I am assuming you were being sarcastic in suggesting it.

First, there is the security of watching the wall.

Second, there is the cost initially and of maintaining the wall.

Third, there is the problem of deciding who belongs on which side of the wall.

Fourth, there is all the support that the militants/insurgents will get from everywhere for being mistreated.

Fifth....

Sixth.... etc. etc. etc.

[sriracha john]

Guards in lucky escape, bomb fails to go off properly

Two members of a community security team escaped with minor injuries when a bomb failed to detonate properly outside a 7-Eleven store in Yala yesterday. Volunteer Niran Prapat, 32, was wounded in the left leg, and Doloh Sama-ae, 49, suffered ringing in the ears. They were part of the market community security team. Eyewitnesses said the four-man team was standing in front of the store when a bomb hidden under a drainage lid went off. As the bomb did not go off with full force, they escaped with minor injuries. A bomb demolition squad was called in to defuse another 2-kilogram bomb also found in the area. Mobile phone and wireless signals were jammed in the area and ordnance officers used a high-pressure water cannon to destroy the second bomb's electrical circuits before exploding it.

In Pattani's Nong Chik area, a technician at a rubber processing factory was shot dead by insurgents while driving his motorcycle home. The victim was identified as Sa-ard Apiwatchanapanya, 41, from Kanchanaburi.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/070708_News/07Jul2008_news12.php

[papajohn]

These things tend to sound effective, but in practice they usually aren't. I am assuming you were being sarcastic in suggesting it.

First, there is the security of watching the wall.

Second, there is the cost initially and of maintaining the wall.

Third, there is the problem of deciding who belongs on which side of the wall.

Fourth, there is all the support that the militants/insurgents will get from everywhere for being mistreated.

Fifth....

Sixth.... etc. etc. etc.

Hi Scott, Yes I believe you are right, it was sarcasm. Walls solve nothing, who are they keeping in and who are they keeping out becomes a major question.

Thanks John S. for your focus on this issue. Don,t be sidetracked by those that have personal agendas.

This is a MUSLIM religious problem and until they, as

a community, control these " insurgents", actually they are terrorists, Thailand is doomed to become another terrorist country. Afganistan, Pakistan and Thailand on CNN. Think about it ! There goes Thailand as a tourist destination. Economy destroyed! My question is where the hel_l is the United Nations ? It seems to me a UN peacekeeping force will come between the factions and bring some kind of resolution to the chaos now being unleashed on this

wonderful country by the Muslim Brotherhood. Nails in his hands is very telling !!! Allah Akbar or Sawadee Kup. Which will it be?

[TAWP]

New info on the motivation for the last killings and news of a new shooting...

Three killedin attack on tea shop in deep South

Gunmen open fire with assault rifles

3 villagers were killed and 5 injured when men with assault rifles attacked a tea shop in Yala yesterday, police said. The gunmen arrived at the shop in a pick-up truck. Without warning, they opened fire on the group with M-16 and AK-47 assault rifles. Three men, identified as Ali Mahama, 24, Sulkifli Siyadi, 32, and Dao Showuma, 52, died on the spot, while the five injured were rushed to hospital. Police believe the attackers wanted to frighten villagers because they believe locals gave government officials information about a hideout which recently led to a raid by security officers on a home in the neighbourhood and the arrest of a suspected insurgent. "They shot villagers to intimidate and force others not to cooperate with the government," said Yala police chief Pumpet Pipatpetpum.

2008_news08.php

Am I right in thinking these tea shop killings like the one above almost always conducted by men with very serious weaponry arriving and departing in a pick-up are the security forces carrying out extra-judicial tit-for-tat killings?

No, you would be wrong, since the article stated that the ones killed was co-operating with the government, meaning they was shot by 'the other side' as a retribution and warning to other villagers to never rat out on a fellow muslim.

[Briggsy]

New info on the motivation for the last killings and news of a new shooting...

Three killedin attack on tea shop in deep South

Gunmen open fire with assault rifles

3 villagers were killed and 5 injured when men with assault rifles attacked a tea shop in Yala yesterday, police said. The gunmen arrived at the shop in a pick-up truck. Without warning, they opened fire on the group with M-16 and AK-47 assault rifles. Three men, identified as Ali Mahama, 24, Sulkifli Siyadi, 32, and Dao Showuma, 52, died on the spot, while the five injured were rushed to hospital. Police believe the attackers wanted to frighten villagers because they believe locals gave government officials information about a hideout which recently led to a raid by security officers on a home in the neighbourhood and the arrest of a suspected insurgent. "They shot villagers to intimidate and force others not to cooperate with the government," said Yala police chief Pumpet Pipatpetpum.

2008_news08.php

Am I right in thinking these tea shop killings like the one above almost always conducted by men with very serious weaponry arriving and departing in a pick-up are the security forces carrying out extra-judicial tit-for-tat killings?

No, you would be wrong, since the article stated that the ones killed was co-operating with the government, meaning they was shot by 'the other side' as a retribution and warning to other villagers to never rat out on a fellow muslim.

I'm not totally convinced. The statement came from Yala police chief. I am not passing judgement. I am just trying to understand the reporting of this conflict.

I think it would be pretty hard to drive about in a pick-up with a number of men carrying automatic weapons when there are road blocks everywhere. Much easier to use motorbikes which can go up tracks through fields etc. or plant bombs. These tea shop and mosque shootings seem to follow a pattern. Several men, indiscriminate shooting, war weapons, no plates, black clothing, clean getaway. Seems to sound very like the security services to me.

[sriracha john]

A good thing (schools reopened) turns into a bad thing (Rangers killed. students wounded).....

Violence continues as schools re-open

On the day 44 of 55 schools in Yala's Raman district re-opened after brief closures due to the killing of a school director, Muslim insurgents ambushed on Monday a school truck in Pattani, killing two Army rangers who were protecting it.

Three students were also injured in the attack at 3.30pm in Nong Chik district. The truck was transporting students from Yabi Bannawit School to their homes.

The 44 schools in Raman district reopened after having suspended classes following the shooting last Wednesday of Banmahae School director Weera Muanchan, according to a senior provincial education official.

Yala Education Office director Atthasit Rattanaklaew said security had been tightened to prevent further incidents. Soldiers are on patrol on all routes leading to and from schools, while parents have been seen bringing their children to classes.

Atthasit said 11 schools would delay reopening until tomorrow due to concerns over teachers and pupils' safety following a shooting incident between security forces and suspected insurgents near two schools.

Weera's funeral will be held Tuesday. A police investigation indicated that a suspected assailant is a key member of the Runda Kumpulan Kecil (RKK) insurgent group. An arrest warrant had been issued for the suspect in connection with earlier attacks.

Teachers are a frequent target of attacks in the Muslim-majority southern border provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat, where an ethnic and culturally based insurgent movement has been carrying out acts of violence since January 2004.

- The Nation

[Scott]

Eductional institutions and their students and teachers are really sitting ducks. Everything about schools is predictable and thus easy to target. It's very sad, since these are some of the most vulnerable. I doubt that they can really provide protection to these groups.

[papajohn]

New info on the motivation for the last killings and news of a new shooting...

Three killedin attack on tea shop in deep South

Gunmen open fire with assault rifles

3 villagers were killed and 5 injured when men with assault rifles attacked a tea shop in Yala yesterday, police said. The gunmen arrived at the shop in a pick-up truck. Without warning, they opened fire on the group with M-16 and AK-47 assault rifles. Three men, identified as Ali Mahama, 24, Sulkifli Siyadi, 32, and Dao Showuma, 52, died on the spot, while the five injured were rushed to hospital. Police believe the attackers wanted to frighten villagers because they believe locals gave government officials information about a hideout which recently led to a raid by security officers on a home in the neighbourhood and the arrest of a suspected insurgent. "They shot villagers to intimidate and force others not to cooperate with the government," said Yala police chief Pumpet Pipatpetpum.

2008_news08.php

Am I right in thinking these tea shop killings like the one above almost always conducted by men with very serious weaponry arriving and departing in a pick-up are the security forces carrying out extra-judicial tit-for-tat killings?

No, you would be wrong, since the article stated that the ones killed was co-operating with the government, meaning they was shot by 'the other side' as a retribution and warning to other villagers to never rat out on a fellow muslim.

I'm not totally convinced. The statement came from Yala police chief. I am not passing judgement. I am just trying to understand the reporting of this conflict.

I think it would be pretty hard to drive about in a pick-up with a number of men carrying automatic weapons when there are road blocks everywhere. Much easier to use motorbikes which can go up tracks through fields etc. or plant bombs. These tea shop and mosque shootings seem to follow a pattern. Several men, indiscriminate shooting, war weapons, no plates, black clothing, clean getaway. Seems to sound very like the security services to me.

What is your point? What have the Thais to gain from shooting up their own people? Get a grip on reality, this situation is not a few guys running around playing insurgents ,this is a major effort to destroy this country. Roadblocks cannot be everywhere. To even suggest that the Thais are responsible indicates your lack of smarts or you are a terrorist yourself trying to deflect the blame. We know that the MUSLIMS know how to use the internet to their advantage all over the world.

Nice try.

[sriracha john]

Thanks John S. for your focus on this issue. Don,t be sidetracked by those that have personal agendas.

Thank you... and I try not to... it's easier when the agenda is so obvious and at its core has nothing to do with the subject matter....

Now that the derailment attempt is over, to resume focus.... with about a sad a situation as you can get.... shooting a school bus...

Ambush on school bus kills 2 rangers, wounds 3 students in Thailand's deep south

PATTANI, Thailand -- Suspected Islamic insurgents opened fire on a school bus in Thailand's restive south on Monday, killing two paramilitary rangers and wounding three teenage students, police said.

The bus was taking 10 students -- aged from 13 to 18 -- home from a school in Pattani province's Nong Chik district when an unknown number of assailants opened fire from a hiding place on the roadside, said police Maj. Gen. Kririn Inn-kaew.

Two paramilitary rangers who were providing security for the students were shot and fell from the bus, Kririn said. He said the assailants continued to fire at the rangers, killing them and then taking their guns.

Three female students, all Buddhists, were wounded and taken to a hospital, Kririn said. There was no immediate word on their condition.

Kririn said initial investigations indicated the assailants were targeting the rangers.

Thousands of government-hired paramilitary rangers have been deployed in Thailand's southernmost provinces of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat. The military has recruited local Muslims and Buddhists to join the army-trained units, hoping their familiarity with the geography and people will give authorities an edge over insurgents.

But many Muslims hold a deep hatred against the low-paid rangers, accusing them of abuses and human rights violations in the area.

The government has made little progress in curbing the violence despite the presence in the south of nearly 40,000 police and soldiers. Drive-by shootings and bombings occur frequently.

The school bus attack came two days after suspected insurgents shot up a bustling cafe in Yala early Saturday, killing three customers and injuring four others.

More than 90 percent of Thailand's 65 million people are Buddhists, and many of the country's Muslims have long complained of discrimination, especially in jobs and education.

The southern Thais are the same ethnicity as Malays across the border in Malaysia and share the same religion, culture, food and language.

- Associated Press / 07-07-08

Edited July 7, 2008 by sriracha john

[marshbags]

M.O. is hardly some Appalachian dialect, it's Latin and it stands for Modus Operendi, I don't know if I spelled it correctly. It sort of means method of operating.

I think it was the "git go" he was querying. I was intrigued by that, too.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Entry:git–go

A variant of get-go

----------------------------------------------

Entry:get–go

The very beginning

It,s also an abreviation of " get up and go " as in start and begin from a resting or staionary position.

We use this term often in my neck of the woods.

marshbags

[marshbags]

There are several spoilers who frequently post on the various news threads.

Rather than concentrate on the content of the important issues and the observations of the posters, they hover about like vultures waiting to pick fault with the poster and make pathetic comments to get a hoped for reaction, along with disrupting ongoing debate.

We all know who these suspects are, all they do is belittle themselves rather than their intended prey ( if i may use this word without it desparaging anyone ) and end up with a deserved reputation accordingly.

If you wish to join the debates, suspects, do yourselves a favour and conscentrate on the content that posters have taken the time to put across along with enhancing and expanding on the various topics of interest by doing so.

Perhaps also, you should recognise the efforts, thought and the time, that go into keeping us all up to date on these important issues on a daily basis.

One of the spoilers favourite targets is S.J. , who along with J.D. are recognised and appreciated by our membership for their stamina and dedication.

S.J., because he chooses to also take an active role / interest in the threads, tends to become one of your your main targets for some unknown reason.

J.D. of course as an official moderator is just actively posting, but without showing predudice for which he is possibly limited to in his role.

S.J. on the other hand chooses not to be a moderator ( i would think as only moderators can post on the T.N.C,s thread ), to enable himself to make comments and add his thoughts free and fairly as his his right as a T.Visa member.

While doing so he is open to critcism that a moderator wouldn,t get and he,d be the first to accept fair comments based on his contributions / content going by his open attitude to give and take fairly. ( unless you warrant otherwise of course )

This is not an i love S.J. post before you possible comment in this context, however he has earned my respect for one will support him everytime it,s called for in these situations, as i would others in similar circumstances

Give it a thought when you choose to make comments and concentrate on the content rather than personaliize everything.

We would all appreciate this instead of constantly getting sidetracked by your petty, pathetic non related acidity and repeated personal attacks.

IMHO of course.

End of my rant and back to the topics if you will allow us to.

marshbags

P.S.

We can all be guilty of have a go at someone when a certain comment warrants it, but repetitive slanging, post after post is not called for, nor does it have any place in free and fair debate.

Edited July 8, 2008 by marshbags

[sriracha john]

Thank you, marshbags... I appreciate your words very much.

and now, I really regret dampening the mood following that.... but such is the status of this topic...

Thai soldiers inspect the body of two soldiers in Thailand's Pattani province, July 7, 2008. The soldiers were shot dead by suspected Muslim militants while protecting a school bus, police said. Three students were also injured in the attack.

REUTERS

[TAWP]

Their targets were kids of ages 13 to 18!

There can be no excuse for this. Just the other week one of the leaders for one of the terrorist groups (living in Gothenburg, Sweden under the protection of insane immigration laws) said that, and did so without blinking, that every Thai killed was done so as they where 'agents of the government'.

Have this in mind the next time you try to make excuses for these murderers!

Edited July 8, 2008 by TAWP

[sriracha john]

Things are definitely ratcheting up... in the latest upswing of the pendulum... fully eliminating the characterization of the situation as "improved"...

Couple shot dead, 15 schools close in Pattani

PATTANI, July 8 (TNA) – Continuing violence in Thailand's insurgency-wracked southernmost provinces took the lives of a Pattani couple Tuesday morning, but left physically unhurt their teenaged son, even as 15 schools closed their doors in response to the ambush yesterday of an Army truck ferrying students to their homes after the end of classes.

Shot to death as they drove their motorcycle to work were Chatchawan Sornjamnong and his wife Ampai Kiewnit, but their 14-year-old son was unharmed.

The school closings followed an incident in Pattani's Nongjik district Monday in which two rangers were killed and three students were wounded by gunfire.

The gunman also burned their motorcycle, however, their son escaped unscathed.

Meanwhile, 15 schools in Pattani's Nongjik district close indefinitely on Tuesday after a military truck carrying schoolchildren were ambushed on Monday.

Teachers will meet today to assess the situation and to continue with the daily work of planning and teaching guidelines and lessons.

[sriracha john]

Today's additional murders to those above...

A policeman looks at the bodies of two Buddhists who were shot dead and burned by suspected Muslim rebels in Thailand's Yala province, July 8, 2008.

REUTERS

[Scott]

Marshbags and SJ--thanks for trying to keep this on track. It's much appreciated. Even by some of us who have limited knowledge about the situation.

The regular press doesn't do a good job of reporting these events.

In the past couple of years it seems--and I use seems because I have no concrete information--these guys have gotten better at targeting, more accurate in their bombings (making them and causing casualties when detonating). This would mean that they are getting better training and better 'education' and may have better financing. Where do they get their money? Who trains them etc.

When I first started following the situation in the south--after Kru Se--before that I had extremely limited knowledge that there was a problem in the south, they really seemed more like a bunch of thugs, a rag-tag group of people making mayhem. That seems to have changed. Thoughts? Observations? Facts?

[TAWP]

There have been extensive concern that some of the 'imported' teachers (from Saudi Arabia mostly) in some of the more radical schools are there not only for a more radical teaching. But enforcement aswell...

[Scott]

Well, if they have imported teachers from Saudi Arabia, they had better have their B.Ed., and take the Thai Cultural Training Course that has had such a profoundly positive effect on all the rest of us teachers! Oops, off topic, sorry.

Actually that could be true, but are there a lot of them? I would think the gov't would be able to keep tabs on them.

[Scott]

There was something in the BKK post today about 128 techers, students and staff killed since Jan 2004. That's a scary number. I have no idea how they keep staff at all down there.

[papajohn]

There was something in the BKK post today about 128 techers, students and staff killed since Jan 2004. That's a scary number. I have no idea how they keep staff at all down there.

Hi Scott, You say down there, so i guess you are not " down there". It is called "combat pay" the teachers get a few more baht a month to risk their lives teach. Yes its a scary number !! "They" have also burned down over 100 Thai schools in the 3 provinces. These are serious MUSLIM TERORRISTS. Someone had told me 300 Muslim "Thai" students age 12 to 15 were sent to Pakistan in March, 2002 for "Religious Training" at Madrassas.

Now we know they are back in Thailand. Now they are 16 to 21 year old robotic killing machines for Allah. The training they got is very evident today.

You say you are a teacher, all this info can be found

on google. Try these, MPM, Mujahideem Pattani Movement, PULO, United Liberation Organization,

Pattani Islamic Movement, Gmip, Pattani liberation National Front, Rumda Kumpulan Kecil RKK. all these organizations have been identified as operating in the south, don't forget JI, Jemaah Islamiyah. Do your homework teacher. PJ.

[Scott]

Thanks. I don't live in the South and I am interested in the situation (whether it regards teachers or not). the information tends to be very confusing, but I will take a look at what's there.

[sriracha john]

a bit more on the teachers in the South...

Teachers quit school

Three teachers want out of Yala's Ban Mahae School after insurgents killed its director last week, a senior teacher says.

Sapi-ing Lenu, acting school director, says the school reopened yesterday. It has been closed since insurgents killed director Veera Meunchan.

The atmosphere was subdued and only 70 per cent of its 300 students showed up. 21 teachers stayed away.

Teachers Jongjai Janthong, Maliwan Sanguankul and Aree Jitsuriwong want out. They are scared for their lives. They've been temporarily transferred to the Yala Education Office until they can find permanent positions.

- Daily Xpress / July 11, 2008

===================================================

I would hazard to presume for a government school of that enrollment size, that 21 teachers constitutes a majority of the faculty.

Edited July 11, 2008 by sriracha john