Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[grantbkk]

The tragic news of Carly Reisig being shot in Pai and her ex-boyfriend, John Leo del Pinto, being killed is now a lead news story throughout the world. All of the facts have yet to be made public however it is certain that this will be another major embarrassment to the Kingdom already being rocked by continuing political upheaval and economic downturn. It is obvious that the current government has lost all control and the Thai people voted with that in mind last month after a full fifteen months or stagnation on every issue the military dictators based their justification for the coup d'état.

On the news coverage of the tragic events in Pai I want to commend The Nation on the balanced coverage presented over the past two days. While may news services again fell victim to the all too familiar rhetoric from the Thai Police justifying most if not all murders by their off duty representatives, The Nation presented other aspects of the incident that may prove to be what actually transpired in this case.

Please keep up the good work. The world is watching.

I wonder if they will actually charge Carly Reisig with anything. Surely even the Canadian Embassy with have to get involved if it goes that far.

[Pawpcorn]

If he is Canadian I hope his Embassy pushes things.

Embassies are there to promote trade, not to help their citizens; that is a very minor function. They will help the victims relatives, a bit, but as far as make waves that is not their remit.

What a stupid idiotic thing to say mr yorkman -- just remember that the next time your in trouble or need help from your old homeland -- embassies here to promote trade not help citizens - really -- hey wake up ole fell - you have been living in the wilderness for too long and its stupid comments like this that make the rest of us - just wonder -

As offensive as you find his comments aussimike, I'm afraid he's closer to the truth than you realize. PM me if you want another first-hand similar story..

Regarding the witnesses, the woman has little to worry about now however given some pip-squeek local cop was involved, but I tell you, the most dangerous person to be today in Chiang Mai is probably that Thai boyfriend. You think he'll be telling the same story at the trial (if there ever is a trial that is)?

I agree, and have been thinking the same thing. Have you noticed there haven't been any pictures of him published??? I'm sure, if he's smart enough, he's refusing to have his picture taken, and... BESIDES hiring a lawyer, this chap's going to need 24 hour protection of (I'm thinking) 4 armed guards, highly preferably NOT off duty policemen.

He's in a very dangerous situation now, and I'm guessing he wishes he could just crawl "under a rock" somewhere and disappear... poor guy!

[thaiman]

Could the Thai boyfriend be in on it?

[taxexile]

however it is certain that this will be another major embarrassment to the Kingdom

the reality , sadly , is that story will be all but forgotten within a few days by all except for relatives and friends of the victims and the outraged masses posting here.

unless a brave journalist keeps the story in the news , both here and abroad , or thousands of foreigners camp outside police headquarters for a month in a protest/vigil , this story , like all the other stories about suspicious deaths in thailand , will just fade away.

kirsty jones , the amputated arm , the kanchanaburi murders , the koh samui rape murder , etc etc etc ,....... the foreign anger and outrage will be placated by a cover up. the victims will be discredited , everyone will know they have been discredited , but there are no systems in place in thailand to get to the truth or hold those responsible accountable for their actions.

justice and truth ...... no chance i'm afraid.

[Prakanong]

Could the Thai boyfriend be in on it?

Anythings possible but what motive could he have that is credible?

[Foggy Bottom]

You would think that the Post or Nation would have a correspondent in Chaing Mai that could investigate. This is the kind of story that attracts a lot of attention.

Both the Nation and the Post have offices in Chiangmai

However the interviews with Ms Reisig are being conducted and reported by Farang journalists working for our very own City Life Magazine, which due to publishing schedules, are most likely being syndicated to the nationals and international press.

What a stupid idiotic thing to say mr yorkman -- just remember that the next time your in trouble or need help from your old homeland -- embassies here to promote trade not help citizens - really -- hey wake up ole fell - you have been living in the wilderness for too long and its stupid comments like this that make the rest of us - just wonder -

Mike - it is a well known fact that ambassadorial missions are about trade and politics, and that consular missions are about assistance to nationals and would be visitors to the missions' home countries. It is also widely touted that the Australian Embassy/Consulate is far mare assistive to their nationals than the equivalent services from other countries. Just because the Aussie foreign service provides (allegedly) an exemplary service, do not assume those of other countries do the same.

[cm-happy]

Could the Thai boyfriend be in on it?

That's exactly what I am thinking. He must have seen everything since he was walking behind them, as per the ladies story, as they left the Be-Bop bar with the victim. Fuen must have seen everything, but seems to have dissappeared from the case and not mentioned except by the wounded lady.

Surly the policemen must have seen Fuen, and if it was the policman's intent to eliminate witnesses by shooting the lady, why was Fuen not shot as well?

But let's not rush to judgment.

[Prakanong]

Could the Thai boyfriend be in on it?

That's exactly what I am thinking. He must have seen everything since he was walking behind them, as per the ladies story, as they left the Be-Bop bar with the victim. Fuen must have seen everything, but seems to have dissappeared from the case and not mentioned except by the wounded lady.

Surly the policemen must have seen Fuen, and if it was the policman's intent to eliminate witnesses by shooting the lady, why was Fuen not shot as well?

But let's not rush to judgment.

He is mentioned by the journalist and is quoted while sitting at the wounded ladies bedside!

Read above - I know there is a lot of duplicate posting though which makes it difficult sometimes to follow a thread like this.

[Mobi]

however it is certain that this will be another major embarrassment to the Kingdom

the reality , sadly , is that story will be all but forgotten within a few days by all except for relatives and friends of the victims and the outraged masses posting here.

unless a brave journalist keeps the story in the news , both here and abroad , or thousands of foreigners camp outside police headquarters for a month in a protest/vigil , this story , like all the other stories about suspicious deaths in thailand , will just fade away.

kirsty jones , the amputated arm , the kanchanaburi murders , the koh samui rape murder , etc etc etc ,....... the foreign anger and outrage will be placated by a cover up. the victims will be discredited , everyone will know they have been discredited , but there are no systems in place in thailand to get to the truth or hold those responsible accountable for their actions.

justice and truth ...... no chance i'm afraid.

Not forgetting the two Russian ladies that were murdered in cold blood on the beach in Jomtien last year. No less than the new national acting police chief came down to investigate and publicly stated that he had grave doubts as to the local police's explanation of what had happened, and that he didn't believe the Thai 'fall guy' was guilty. He vowed to get to the bottom of it, and then disappeared back to Bangkok and was never heard of again. (I might have got some of the details wrong, as I am writing from memory, but the general thrust is as I have written it.)

No doubt our beloved "Mr Clean" new police chief was either warned off, paid off, or both. Pattaya is totally controlled from top to bottom by very powerful criminal elements.

In fact the whole country is pretty much ruled by criminals.

[Arkady]

The policeman and his bosses no doubt believe that his only fault was to shoot Reisig an inch wide of her heart and not putting a coup de grace into her head. He fired a second shot into del Pinto's heart after shooting him through the mouth and must have been very confident that he had killed Reisig or maybe was too pissed to think clearly. The patronage system in the Thai police guarantees that they will cover up for their colleagues who commit rape, murder or cut off of young girls' arms for refusing to sleep with them. Nobody can risk a rogue policeman who feels he has nothing left to lose blowing the whistle on all the graft and crime his superiors are routinely involved in. The pyramid structure which has been documented by social scientists from Chulongkorn University in the 90s ensures that all police are tainted and therefore have to keep silent. Every one has to pay the level above for promotions and choice postings and once in the job there is a fixed tarrif to be paid monthly. Since the tarrif is fixed, the harder they work at corruption the more they get to keep for themselves. The CU researchers said that this system went all the way up to the national police chief who had to pay off politicians. An "inactive post" in the police is a real punishment because there is no rent to collect. In Pai, near the Burmese border, there are a lot of illegal activities including drug smuggling that police can be expected to play a major role in and this would reinforce the need to close ranks. If the son of an influential Thai person had been murdered the police web might be broken through but foreign governments do not carry much weight in this area and Canada is very low down the pecking order for Thailand. By all accounts their embassy doesn't care too much about their nationals in trouble anyway as they regard themselves mainly as a trade office.

I think that Carly Reisig is in danger of being murdered and I am afraid her Thai boyfriend, Fuen, is in even greater danger. The poor guy lives in Pai and doesn't have an easy option to fly away to Canada and try to forget about it. At the very least Fuen will be intimidated as a way to get at her. If these witnesses survive and stick to their stories, the case may go similarly to the Kanchanaburi case - the cop gets a light sentence because of his "explemplary record" and is allowed to serve his sentence outside the jail under the protection of local cops and other gangsters. Expect lots of stories to be put about by the police about Reisig sleeping around with all and sundry and having a drug problem to discredit her. In the Kanchaburi case the murderer got several people to claim it was common knowledge that the woman he murdered was his "mia noi".

The CNS promised to reform the police but did nothing. So Thailand is stuck with the problem of a corrupt, murderous police force for the indefinite future and policemen charged with murder will always be let out on bail to intimidate witnesses. It will definitely not improve under PPP. Thaksin is an ex-policeman.

[meadish_sweetball]

Could the Thai boyfriend be in on it?

That's exactly what I am thinking. He must have seen everything since he was walking behind them, as per the ladies story, as they left the Be-Bop bar with the victim. Fuen must have seen everything, but seems to have dissappeared from the case and not mentioned except by the wounded lady.

Surly the policemen must have seen Fuen, and if it was the policman's intent to eliminate witnesses by shooting the lady, why was Fuen not shot as well?

But let's not rush to judgment.

According to one of the latest articles, Fuen was at Reisig's bedside in the hospital and was quoted in the interview.

To take the opposite angle - for all we know, he might have been too far behind to do something, or took cover when the brawl started, or when the first shot was fired, or might have run away to get help from friends.

I still come to the same conclusion as you, let's not rush to judgement, we'll just have to see if more info comes to light.

[taxexile]

why was Fuen not shot as well?

he had amulet protection.

[Prakanong]

Excellent post Akady with a concise explanation of what exactly will be going on.

[Seneque]

Three EXTREMELY ? drunk people, one has a gun ... Result : one dead, one injured, one in jail (perhaps) .... another sad story involving 'arms' & 'booze'...

Has this something to do with Thailand? , i have some doubt (except the fact that it happened in Thailand, it happens everywhere, everyday)

It has something to do with the way the world is turning into ... an ever violent society, worlwide.

Nobody needs to die from violence. Condolences to the family.

[Journalist]

The policeman and his bosses no doubt believe that his only fault was to shoot Reisig an inch wide of her heart and not putting a coup de grace into her head. He fired a second shot into del Pinto's heart after shooting him through the mouth and must have been very confident that he had killed Reisig or maybe was too pissed to think clearly...[snip]...The CNS promised to reform the police but did nothing. So Thailand is stuck with the problem of a corrupt, murderous police force for the indefinite future and policemen charged with murder will always be let out on bail to intimidate witnesses. It will definitely not improve under PPP. Thaksin is an ex-policeman.

Oh...good post. Nice one.

[Prakanong]

Three EXTREMELY ? drunk people, one has a gun ... Result : one dead, one injured, one in jail (perhaps) .... another sad story involving 'arms' & 'booze'...

Has this something to do with Thailand? , i have some doubt (except the fact that it happened in Thailand, it happens everywhere, everyday)

It has something to do with the way the world is turning into ... an ever violent society, worlwide.

Nobody needs to die from violence. Condolences to the family.

How do you know the three of them were extremely drunk???

How is this to do with Thailand - are you actually on the same planet as most of the restof us?

Yes, every day drug policeman gun down two innocent tourists.............NOT but they do every couple of years in thailand so it seems.

Now goodbye and say hello next time you visit from your planet - Mork calling Ork

[meemiathai]

Moral of story here: If you're with a girlfriend/wife walking down a street at night, and a Thai man approaches, do whatever he says, even if he's offensive and belligerent. Even if he threatens your lady with harm, don't put up any resistance, because he may be an off-duty cop with a gun. And we know all Thais, expecially cops - get offended very quickly and vehemently

Just try to act friendly showing that you don't want trouble and leave the scene as quickly as possible. But if it gets to a point where you can take no more, assess the situation and attack the bloody bastard all of a sudden until he no longer knows where himself is and flee. That's the way to deal with wild lives.

This is good advice.

I will add: If you do engage in a battle in the 3rd world , make sure you can crush the enemy! It seems like the victim was still thinking the way he did at home.

Thais fight to kill, not win.

Just to clarify , it is not just thailand or 3rd worlds I'm talking about, anywhere in the world if people want to harm you for no reason especially when one has been well behaved, and yes there are such bastards, I'll use this tactic. Although this would be the last resort, that is even having paid my ego is not enough.

[mikethevigoman]

Could the Thai boyfriend be in on it?

I wondered that, did he consider the old boyfriend a threat ? ,. had a set up been arranged and it all backfired when the woman got protective/involved,Thai man was walking a few paces behind, why ?..feasable,. Edited January 8, 2008 by mikethevigoman

[DamianMavis]

So far the Thai boyfriend is the only real HERO in all this. Why? Because he is sitting at her bedside and supporting her and confirming her experiences and discounting the police lies. The man deserves to be applauded.

Damian

[Ozziepaul]

So far the Thai boyfriend is the only real HERO in all this. Why? Because he is sitting at her bedside and supporting her and confirming her experiences and discounting the police lies. The man deserves to be applauded.

Damian

Spot on Daimo,

He's got balls as big as elephants and so has his GF, let's hope the bustards don't take em both out of the picture.

Anyway, I was supposed to be out of Thailand a while ago but stayed for a bit of extra work.

Thank Christ the work is almost done and I can pack the wife and girls and peess off back to Oz.

I think it was Burnie that mentioned something to this effect, but we have all seen things change for the worst.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a blanket statement. BUT when one is just going about their daily business and senselessly attacked without motive, it's time to either bunker down (what a great way to live), or pack the bags.

It's option two for us.

Cheers n beers.

Big Paulee.

[Jai Dee]

Some off-topic flame posts have been deleted from this thread.

Please keep the discussion civil.

[rafval]

I still think yabba is behind most of this sort of violence, its what happened when it became widely used in the country Im from, and its more widely used here. There is no motive for these over the top crimes, people loose the plot completely. Its a huge problem here that farang underestimate, but the thais living with it dont, thats one reason taksin is so popular and not many are outraged by his draconian attempt to slow it down, and no doubt the police are involved in much of the dealing as well, its got to be a major player in the thai economy and this is the price of it, just my opinion having seen it happen before

[Thai at Heart]

The policeman and his bosses no doubt believe that his only fault was to shoot Reisig an inch wide of her heart and not putting a coup de grace into her head. He fired a second shot into del Pinto's heart after shooting him through the mouth and must have been very confident that he had killed Reisig or maybe was too pissed to think clearly...[snip]...The CNS promised to reform the police but did nothing. So Thailand is stuck with the problem of a corrupt, murderous police force for the indefinite future and policemen charged with murder will always be let out on bail to intimidate witnesses. It will definitely not improve under PPP. Thaksin is an ex-policeman.

Oh...good post. Nice one.

Don't worry so much about Txn, but if the proposed Interior Minister is anything to go by, the cops will be having a field day in Thailand.

[Seneque]

Three EXTREMELY ? drunk people, one has a gun ... Result : one dead, one injured, one in jail (perhaps) .... another sad story involving 'arms' & 'booze'...

Has this something to do with Thailand? , i have some doubt (except the fact that it happened in Thailand, it happens everywhere, everyday)

It has something to do with the way the world is turning into ... an ever violent society, worlwide.

Nobody needs to die from violence. Condolences to the family.

How do you know the three of them were extremely drunk???

How is this to do with Thailand - are you actually on the same planet as most of the restof us?

Yes, every day drug policeman gun down two innocent tourists.............NOT but they do every couple of years in thailand so it seems.

Now goodbye and say hello next time you visit from your planet - Mork calling Ork

Fortunately I am not from the same planet as you (I don't know about the others) ... So nobody was drunk, noone had a gun, nothing happened, Happy !

Please walk in the shade.

[joskydive]

Thanks for that cclub75 - here is the article from the Nation:

MAE HONG SON

Canadian tourist is shot dead

Policeman faces murder charge after scuffle with drunk couple

MAE HONG SON: -- A Canadian tourist was shot dead and his wife wounded early yesterday morning near a pub in Mae Hong Son province after a scuffle with a policeman.

Pol Sgt-Major Uthai Dechawiwat claimed shots were fired accidentally after the foreign couple tried to snatch his pistol from him.The 37-year-old policeman, who was released on bail after being charged with murder and manslaughter, said he had struggled to get his service pistol back from John Leo Del Pinto and his wife Carly Reisig.

He said he had used the gun to threaten them when he was down on the ground after the couple beat him up.

Del Pinto, 25, took a shot in the mouth, from which the bullet travelled through his shoulder, and another shot on the left side of his torso, while Reisig, 24, was shot on the left side of her torso.

Uthai initially fled but give himself up to Pai police not long afterwards.

Quoting witnesses, case investigator Pol Lt-Colonel Sombat Panya said the couple had been drinking in a local pub called Ting Tong. They became involved in a drunken brawl after Del Pinto, who recently arrived in Thailand, found out that Reisig had become pregnant with a Thai man known as Fuen.

The couple continued arguing after they left the pub when Uthai arrived at the scene, near a bridge, on personal business. Uthai approached them and asked them to be calm but both foreigners turned to attack him.

The officer said Uthai was beaten to the ground by the couple. After managing to get up, Uthai pointed his service pistol to threaten away both foreigners, but Del Pinto tried to snatch the pistol from him. After a scuffle, shots were fired and the couple went down.

Del Pinto died at the scene at about 2am and Reisig was sent to a hospital in Chaing Mai, where she is in a safe condition.

Sombat said he had not interviewed Reisig about what happened and no offence had yet been filed against her.

The Nation - 2008/01/07

If it was accidently, he must be a very good marksman then because the first was, accidently, through the mouth, the second, accidently, through the heart and the third a very near miss!

Bet he's kicking himself about that one! I'm surprised the Thai boyfriend didn't get some too, but maybe that's a future project if he doesn't do as he's told! Just speculating.

[Prakanong]

Three EXTREMELY ? drunk people, one has a gun ... Result : one dead, one injured, one in jail (perhaps) .... another sad story involving 'arms' & 'booze'...

Has this something to do with Thailand? , i have some doubt (except the fact that it happened in Thailand, it happens everywhere, everyday)

It has something to do with the way the world is turning into ... an ever violent society, worlwide.

Nobody needs to die from violence. Condolences to the family.

How do you know the three of them were extremely drunk???

How is this to do with Thailand - are you actually on the same planet as most of the restof us?

Yes, every day drug policeman gun down two innocent tourists.............NOT but they do every couple of years in thailand so it seems.

Now goodbye and say hello next time you visit from your planet - Mork calling Ork

Fortunately I am not from the same planet as you (I don't know about the others) ... So nobody was drunk, noone had a gun, nothing happened, Happy !

Please walk in the shade.

I am not saying that drink was not involved but you chose to emphasis the "EXTREMELY" bit by use of capitals so

Define extremely drunk!

How do you know any of the three were in this extreme state never mind all three?

Assumptions do make <deleted> of people

[Saiyan]

Irrespective of position, an accidendent can change the way the legal system applies the law.

Bail will be given in most cases where an accident occurs.

In this case the shooter claims the gun was fired accidentaly.

One shot fired hitting no targets - accidental.

Two shots fired hittig no targets - accidental - maybe.

Three shots fired no targets hit - not accidental any more.

Three shots fired all hiting the targets - Now way. Going to have a hard time justifying this.

The fact the he was a cop and has been trained to use a weapon makes hs case worse.

In most countries. Prehaps the officals would do well to re-consider thier bail decision.

There are more facts in this case to be considered in court before punishment is handed out if any.

For every ones sake may justice be carried out.

[john b good]

I live in Pai and can confirm that there was a shooting last night. A canadian guy is dead and his female friend is in hospital in Chiang Mai having been shot through the shoulder or so I am told.

The incident certainly did not take place in a restaurant. The blood stains on the road are testament to that fact. According to witnesses, the couple in question were very drunk and fighting in the street. A local off duty policeman witnessed this whilst eating in a nearby restaurant and intervened. How the couple ended up getting shot I am not sure and has obviously been the subject of intense speculation here today. The policeman in question is a notoriously unstable individual who allegedly tried to kill himself a few weeks ago and was also rumoured to be drunk at the time of the incident.

How a domestic if very public argument has escalated into this beggars belief. Although having said that, if you have witnessed the level of drinking here amongst the coppers (whilst in uniform) as I have, then something like this, although deeply worrying is not altogether surprising.

Will update with as reliable information as I can get, when I get it.

Well it's just a pity that he wasn't sucessful a few weeks ago (in trying to kill himself) had he succeeded the country would be better off and there wouldn't be an innocent person murdered and another in hospital. BUT, just another case of TIT

[slapout]

After following this for the last couple of days on TV, and reading verious newspaper articles I could find in Chiang Mai and on internet, I am, to put it mildly da.. angry. The interview with surviving lady, submitted to the Nation appears to be a by a non thai, named Drummond. The recent City Life magazine had a 'letter to editor' detailing police activity in Pai and it was detailing some of the things which he or she had observed which would discourge him from ever returning to Pai.The events described in City Life, made the surviors interview, look like she ran into some of the same cowboy police. All of the comments on TV cannot change what has happened but could the 'Powers that be' on TV secure a E mail address that could be posted that would give access some Ministry or Government offical in Thailand where we could voice our thoughts on this type of activity by the Thai Police? If the number of people who have followed this on TV, would send a E mail about their experiences with Policemen, good or bad, someone may realize that you cannot hide this type of action. The Thai police certainly give new meaning to "serve and protect"

[TaxinMeter]

Pai is such a quiet and peaceful place, usually. The town is a magnet for backpackers and "alternative" tourists, and increasingly also for mainstream tourists with many new hotels and tourist businesses opening all the time. This brings tons of money into the town with land values sky-rocketing. Many farangs stay on in Pai, and many are there "informally". This means they stay on short-term consecutive visas and many do not have a work permit.

Enter the Pai police. They don't have much to do with crime fighting in peaceful Pai but they have been known for many years as a corrupt mafia-like organization. They enforce rules at their whim and extort money from the ever-growing number of tourist-related businesses, Thai and foreign alike. A few years ago there was a ruckus when they enforced "no dancing" rules at the old Bebop. Even Joe Cummings wrote articles in several magazines and newspapers against this corrupt practice. You may google it as it's off-topic, one article is here http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=251.

The Pai police also try to foster client-patron relationships with the "informally employed" foreigners, expecting favors/payoffs or at least obedience/displays of respect in return.

So there is a certain amount of tension between the local foreigners and the Pai police. The former come in with their western views of fair treatment while the latter sell this fair treatment for ever increasing rates. Of course extra-legal treatment can also be bought in Thailand and many informal farangs are willing buyers.

Someone mentioned here that there was a new police chief since October 2006 and discipline deteriorated even further. The particular officer was especially problematic as someone living in Pai has posted.

Enter alcohol. As far as I can tell Pai has a collective drinking problem. The usual round currently is Phu Pai, Bebop, Bamboo with the latter staying open until the wee hours. And everyone is drinking strong budget stuff: Chang Beer and Thai Whiskey.

Groups of police officers can be seen drinking in the bars almost daily, mostly in plain clothes. Good they get free drinks from most of the bars.

So, presumably, everyone involved here was probably shit-faced when the event occurred, unwilling to go home after many hours of drinking.

Enter face-paint (!!??). There is probably something about the face paint. Maybe something the cop perceived (likely misunderstood) as insulting to the country or a revered institution not to be mentioned here.

Of course the cop should go down for murder as he clearly over-reacted. Even if he thought he was in danger after the victim wrestled the gun from him he had no reason to deliver three lethal shots. Anyway, I would extrapolate this to conclude that "Thailand is rotten", events like this (police shooting tourists in cold blood) are still a rare occurrence in Thailand.