Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[DamianMavis]

Youre right in a sense, I dont go hooker shopping, I dont have a thai teerac half my age, I dont live in a 3000 baht a month room and live like a backpacker amongst the poorer thais and eat off the street so ya in a way I dont have the same kind of contact as alot of falangs in Thailand. I associate with more educated people and discuss these matters with them though.

I actually only have ONE bad experience with Thai police which I talked about earleir in this thread. BUT I have probably FORGOTTEN more horrible police stories in Thailand than you have ever learned. And I dont mean horrible like this one in this thread. Just tons of examples such as the falang that had his brains spilled out in front of the Landmark Hotel a few New Years ago and died (over a bill argument - they were being told to pay for drinks that other people had ordered that were not associated with them), the alcohol street stall staff that did it were never punished and the whole episode was quickly swept under the rug, why? Because the street stall owner was a cop, he didnt do anything, except not allow justice to be done and that to me is as bad as being the actual perpetrator. I only know of this because my friend was right there when it happened.

Damian

You assume a lot about other posters, I am sure there are as many good stories as there are bad but good stories are not news hence you do not hear of them.

As one poster said earlier, your comments will fall on deaf ears as long as you see things in such a black and white way, (and immature) life here and in most places is much more a shade of grey.

I understand these are your fellow country people but things are not panning out well for them it seems they, or she at least was not squeaky clean.

This does not mean I condone the shootings, I for one believe we will never know the truth, from what I can see neither party are people any respectable person would associate with based on the information we have read so far, and that is undoubtedly all we will have to go on.

You assumed alot too when you suggested there was something wrong with who I associate with and in turn the kindof person I am. So I defended myself and told you straight the kind of person I am and who I associate with.

I have always seen things as black and white. I beleive in good and evil, right and wrong, to me there is no in between. However I do recognise these grey areas you speak of but again I dont see the grey, to me there is always an obvious white and black in the grey. There is always the right thing to do and the wrong thing, no matter the details and circumstances. The situation might be grey but there is always a black or white choice to be made. I watched a Thai man trying to repeatedly run his girlfriend over with his motorbike at close range (not coming at her from high speed but close and ramming her and knocking her down and trying to drive over her) I of course know that the right thing to do is go over there and stop him, the grey part is that if I do I will most likely be killed or jailed... even if I knock him out and run away, he will probably be back on that corner every night waiting for me to exact revenge for causing him to lose face and at the time that was a corner I was going to be walking by alot. I chose the black choice an didnt get involved to selfishly protect myself (just like the other 20 people watching).

The Canadian victims didnt have to be squeeky clean to deserve to live and not be shot.

Damian

Edited January 10, 2008 by DamianMavis

[chanman]

Youre right in a sense, I dont go hooker shopping, I dont have a thai teerac half my age, I dont live in a 3000 baht a month room and live like a backpacker amongst the poorer thais and eat off the street so ya in a way I dont have the same kind of contact as alot of falangs in Thailand. I associate with more educated people and discuss these matters with them though.

Damian

I quite liked your posts untill you decided to wheel out the "I'm better than you" drivel. That says more about you than any well reasoned opinion.

I didnt mean it as such and apologise if you took offence, Chanman was suggesting that I associate with bad people and that I am a bad person so I wanted to clear that up completely. Not drinking and even doing drugs isnt something I do to be good, it has simply been a life choice kind of like being a vegetarian (which Im not).

Damian

Thats not true if you look it was a question, and was asked because of the negativity in the majority of your posts.

Where did I insinuate that you are a bad person?

I do believe from reading your posts in this thread that you are naive, my advise was just that reasonable people will take you more seriously if you take a reasonable standpoint and consider all points of view. The fact is NOT all Thai cops are bad as you would like every one to believe.

However we are getting off topic now and I do not wish to start a flame war.

Edited January 10, 2008 by chanman

[TAWP]

Even FOX News knows how to put insults at headline level that ends with a question mark.

[Arkady]

Off course they are some good cops and others who are bad or corrupt are not bad or corrupt all the time. I have had good and bad experiences with Thai cops. I have been involved in two traffic accidents where the cops treated me absolutely fairly despite being a farang in a collision with a Thai. I have also been in a situation where a police captain spent four hours holding me in the station threatening me and trying to extort money out of me for getting in the way of a motorcyclist who was so drunk that he couldn't speak clearly, as acknowledged by the traffic cop at the scene who promised to support my version but disappeared soon afterwards and without coming back to the station. (I didn't pay but also didn't get home till the early hours when he finished his shift). I once had police come to my office to try to frame me for something invented by a politician looking for a random foreign scapegoat for something that was fortunately so absurd that it wouldn't stick and they eventually backed off and apologised. I have also had the comic aggravation of police stepping out from behind a bush at 2 in the morning and catching me do an illegal right turn when there was not a car in sight (fair cop but is it a worthwhile allocation of taxpayer's resources?). Whenever I go to my local cop shop on routine matters such as reporting lost documents I find they are always incredibly friendly and helpful and I genuinely believe that I get better service because I am a farang.

Whatever your individual experiences with police and the wishes of some to label others as jaded farangs, as Damian says, you will have to acknowledge sooner or later, if you stay here long enough, what Thai people accept i.e. that the police is unfortunately a corrupt institution from top to bottom. The pyramid system I have described earlier in this thread means that from entering the force a young police is forced into corruption whether he likes it or not. Anyone who sets himself up as squeaky clean will be left in a dreary backwater somewhere while he sees his contemporaries get promoted and make money. Some police academy graduates may have private money and connections and they may be able to get interesting jobs out of the mainstream like Interpol liaison where well educated honest officers are required. But the vast majority who can't hack the corruption/patronage system will either whither away and quit the force or they will adapt to the system and get their noses into the trough. The system demands that every one has dirt on every one else, so the first priority has to be brother officers whatever they may have done because every one knows too much. Many try to be good cops as far as the system allows and they are the ones who are a credit to the force but they can't go too far. A famous good cop from the provinces who was poor but a bright overachiever got promoted to a good job in Bangkok. But because he wouldn't tow the line with local gansters from his province his mother and sister were brutally murdered and he could not do anything to bring the culprits to justice. Low salaries and budgets reinforce the system. Police would have trouble supporting their families on low salaries and having a nice gun and motorbike to keep up with the Joneses. Lack of equipment, gasoline allowances, travel allowances etc mean that police are forced into a profit center mentality. Apart those who may have direct involvement in illegal businesses which take time away from police work, officers have to prioritise investigations based on likely profitability or at least avoid those that will be loss making. This means that travelling to another province as part of an nvestigation of a low profile crime against a poor person would not be economically viable because no one would pay the travel expenses. There is also an opportunity cost. On the other hand wealthy Thais would understand this problem and pay expenses and other gratuities to police to investigate a crime against them. In fact this can turn into a bidding war. The police are not as powerful as they were in the 50s, 60s and 70s under military dictatorships but they are still immensely powerful. Many politicians find them useful to bolster their own power like Thaksin and their powers increased under the TRT government. Others have found they can't do much about them like Sarayudh and the CNS (probably because the senior ranks know too much about corruption in the military). The bottom line is that the force is in no one way accountable to tax payers who fund them because the tax payers cannot provide enough for their needs. Much of this is well documented by reputable Thai academics and when a famous report came out from Chulalongkorn University that detailed the whole system including exact prices paid for various police positions in different locations, the police didn't even bother to issue a denial. Yes there are good cops and bad cops but the good ones are severely limited by being a part of the system.

If the rose tinted brigade stay long enough and have enough interactions with mainstream Thai society, they eventually get to see this the same way as the Thais, without the shades.

[chanman]

Damien's a charging crusader Chanman and making reference to semi-corrupt nature endemic to thai cops in LOS. He just needs to see the real deal and (try to) look at things impartially.

Semi-Corrupt???

Understatement of the century. The Thai Police force is corrupt to the core.

We believe you, it must be so as you have told us it is. Do you honestly think comments like this make people believe anything you say?

[TAWP]

I have a problem understanding why anyone would claim the organization as such isn't rampant with corruption. It's part of its core.

That ofcourse doesn't mean every police officer is 'evil' - but they are a part of the system and power base of those that are.

Besides, even mob bosses have families that loves them and friends that ardors their company. And they most likely give cookies to kids in the village.

[chanman]

If the rose tinted brigade stay long enough and have enough interactions with mainstream Thai society, they eventually get to see this the same way as the Thais, without the shades.

A good "reasonable" post ( last paragraph with name calling dilutes it somewhat however )

Edited as the quote was very long

Edited January 10, 2008 by chanman

[DamianMavis]

I think Chanmans major beef is he would like us to debate in a more civilised manner. I dont even think he disagrees all that much.

Damian

[DamianMavis]

Sorry I just had to throw this useless but funny statement by my Thai employees just now as Im sitting here. I mentioned the killing and one of them laughed and said "ya, we know, and we all know what really happened, the cop murdered that guy and tried to murder the girl, we all know" (meaning all thai people have already assumed this)

Damian

[abdulrahman]

Sorry I just had to throw this useless but funny statement by my Thai employees just now as Im sitting here. I mentioned the killing and one of them laughed and said "ya, we know, and we all know what really happened, the cop murdered that guy and tried to murder the girl, we all know" (meaning all thai people have already assumed this)

Damian

My,thai,friends had the same reaction.But I had to ask them about it,they would never had told me otherwise.

It's a huge cultural divide.Will not live long enough to understand Thailand!

[Maxi101]

"Girl who witnessed friend being shot by Thai policeman denies being a troublemaker"

If the above article is to be believed in all of its detail of accounting the struggle, then the couple behaved in a very reckless manner that significantly and spectacularly contributed to the outcome of events. There also seems to be some intentional grey area in Reisig's accounting of events, "playfighting" etc. The article seems to overwhelmingly absolve the policeman of guilt, according to witnesses.

Obviously, this case needs reliable forensics, but that's not going to tell us everything. It is also very easy to medically prove if she is pregnant or not, but would be a violation of her privacy to force that issue. It would definitely help to ascertain her credibility, though.

*added: And last but not least, we all need to be conscientious of the source of these articles. Who is Owen Williams/showbiz spy - an independent journalist? From where? I think as these news stories surface, the source - which is always important - will be more so now.

** As for myself, I'll stick with Drummond.

Exactly who is Owen Williams. The article attributed seems to be the same as as the latest post on the Andrew Drummond website

She IS a trouble maker and although her behaivour might be ok in Canada - her biggest mistake was that she was

1. to young to understand and

2. not willing to understand

3. too stupid after she gave that policeman (whoever he has been) a slap in the face (wether drunk or not)

she should at least leave the area for another location, north east, center or south Thailand.

I would have done immediately - even drunk!

I judge that absolutely and alone after the words which she stated herself in the news. If the news are wrong, I am wrong too. But claiming her ex is a hero is no reason for not facing her own responsibility, but only .... well wishi washi.

maxi

[BkkAnimalover]

Few days ago , trying to explain the meaning of law in this country to a foreigner with gf problems, I was taking as example two cases of murders realesed on bail ( murders not suspect murders ! ) One was a similar story happened in Kanchanaburi , the murder was a police man again ....the target a foreign couple again ....the difference .....that police man was a better gun men bcoz both of the foreigner died at the spot ...seems to be that also this police man has been released on bail and simply suspended from the duty.....A sad confirm that what I was saying correspond to the realty of this country . Country that I love so much , I will never left and I consider my home anyway .

[meom]

If the rose tinted brigade stay long enough and have enough interactions with mainstream Thai society, they eventually get to see this the same way as the Thais, without the shades.

Without the shades you find out that not only is the Thai police force corrupt but basically the whole Thai society is corrupt. In fact it has to be corrupt because without corruption the patronage system doesn't work and without the patronage system the whole society would fall apart.

In Thailand there's many shades of corruption and it's not always a bad thing.

[geriatrickid]

Google news search results - Reisig:

all 222 news articles »

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ie=U...;ncl=1125915289

Understood, but they are for the most part referencing the same article. There are alot of RSS feeds so this results in the multiple entries. The lead story now from the local CBC affiliate is : Man dies after distress call to Police (local story) and this tragic story has fallen to the "old" news section. My point is that while this is horrible, it's not considered that important to the Canadian journalists. Although Canadian parliament is recessed until Jan 28, a quick check of MP statements does not come up with one statement. They have been quick to issue statements in other incidents (e.g. the frequent tourist muggings and murders in Mexico) Again, no press release from Canadian embassy or Foreign Affairs. Either the Canadian press and government is being neglectful or maybe, they have put this in the right perspective and we're attaching more to the incident than is there.

Are we letting our own personal views and prejudices distort the actual events? Again, as many, many people have pointed out, what we seem to have here are a bunch of drunks making stupid decisions. Sometimes the reality is the simplest explanation. It's a rule of pathology - Look for the most likely indicators first.

[Thai at Heart]

"Girl who witnessed friend being shot by Thai policeman denies being a troublemaker"

If the above article is to be believed in all of its detail of accounting the struggle, then the couple behaved in a very reckless manner that significantly and spectacularly contributed to the outcome of events. There also seems to be some intentional grey area in Reisig's accounting of events, "playfighting" etc. The article seems to overwhelmingly absolve the policeman of guilt, according to witnesses.

Obviously, this case needs reliable forensics, but that's not going to tell us everything. It is also very easy to medically prove if she is pregnant or not, but would be a violation of her privacy to force that issue. It would definitely help to ascertain her credibility, though.

*added: And last but not least, we all need to be conscientious of the source of these articles. Who is Owen Williams/showbiz spy - an independent journalist? From where? I think as these news stories surface, the source - which is always important - will be more so now.

** As for myself, I'll stick with Drummond.

Exactly who is Owen Williams. The article attributed seems to be the same as as the latest post on the Andrew Drummond website

She IS a trouble maker and although her behaivour might be ok in Canada - her biggest mistake was that she was

1. to young to understand and

2. not willing to understand

3. too stupid after she gave that policeman (whoever he has been) a slap in the face (wether drunk or not)

she should at least leave the area for another location, north east, center or south Thailand.

I would have done immediately - even drunk!

I judge that absolutely and alone after the words which she stated herself in the news. If the news are wrong, I am wrong too. But claiming her ex is a hero is no reason for not facing her own responsibility, but only .... well wishi washi.

maxi

No one here is saying that she was in the right if she did indeed slap a policeman. Unfortunately, when police conduct themselves as they do in Thailand, it is pretty difficult to hold them with very high esteem.

Of course some are straight, but the system makes the uniform rotten. To wear a uniform and carry a gun assigns responsibility also, which has been shown in this instance to be perceived as the right to blindly take life. Oh how wrong can people be?

I remember there was a proposal a few years ago that security guards be allowed to carry guns. Thank god that never happened, we have a corrupt and inept sizeable force already running around with guns without handing them out to even more fools.

[eljeque]

If this one has not already been posted:

Thai cop on duty despite charge of killing Canadian Thu Jan 10, 6:06 AM ET

BANGKOK (Reuters) - A Thai policeman has been transferred to another station after being charged with killing a Canadian and attempting to kill the man's former girlfriend in the northern tourist town of Pai, police said on Thursday.

Sergeant Uthai Dechawiwat, allowed to walk free after surrendering to police, was reassigned to the town of Pang Ma Pa, 70 km (44 miles) north of Pai near the Myanmar border, while police conduct their investigation.

"We don't want witnesses to feel awkward when they go to Pai station for interviews and see Uthai there," Pai police chief Wanchai Suwanririkate told Reuters by telephone from the picturesque hill town popular with foreign backpackers.

Wanchai quoted witnesses as saying Uthai, who had just finished his shift, was asked to stop a three-way fight between John Leo Del Pinto, 25, his ex-girlfriend Carly Reisig, 24, and her Thai boyfriend on Saturday night.

Del Pinto, a native of Calgary, was trying to stop the Thai man from beating Reisig after she said she was going back to her Canadian boyfriend, Wanchai quoted the witnesses as saying.

When Uthai intervened to stop their quarrel, the trio turned on the policeman who pulled out his gun, Wanchai said.

There was a scuffle and Del Pinto was shot and killed, while Reisig was wounded and treated in hospital.

Reisig gave a different story to Bangkok's Nation newspaper on Tuesday, saying they had left a bar in Pai when a Thai man walked up to them and "hit me for no reason."

After Del Pinto pushed him away, the man got a gun from his motorcycle. There was a struggle and the man shot the Canadian in the face, she said.

"Leo fell to the ground and the man pointed the gun at his heart and fired a second shot. Then he turned around to me and aimed for my heart and shot me in the chest," Reisig was quoted as saying.

Wanchai did not comment on Reisig's version of events, but he retracted an earlier police report that she was pregnant. He said the police were waiting for the results of forensic tests and planned to interview more witnesses.

(Reporting by Nopporn Wong-Anan; Editing by Darren Schuettler and Alex Richardson

[Foggy Bottom]

Well if that latest Reuters report is anything to go by, the story now appears to be so bastardised from the versions in earlier statements from the victims, culprit, witnesses, police spokespersons, and on-the-spot media, that it seems absolutely pointless to continue any further discussion on the topic.

...... Anything you say will be taken down, twisted, rewritten, misrepresented, omitted or added to in any way deemed neccesary for us to get the court verdict that we desire

That last bit used to be a joke leveled at British police.

Pity it is not regardable as a joke in Thailand also.

specifically ......

Del Pinto, a native of Calgary, was trying to stop the Thai man from beating Reisig after she said she was going back to her Canadian boyfriend, Wanchai quoted the witnesses as saying.

When Uthai intervened to stop their quarrel, the trio turned on the policeman who pulled out his gun, Wanchai said.

From where did this piece of information surface ...... more than 4 days after the event, with the culprit out on bail for at least 3 and a half of those?

Edited January 10, 2008 by Gaz Chiangmai

[bulmercke]

If this one has not already been posted:

Thai cop on duty despite charge of killing Canadian Thu Jan 10, 6:06 AM ET

BANGKOK (Reuters) - A Thai policeman has been transferred to another station after being charged with killing a Canadian and attempting to kill the man's former girlfriend in the northern tourist town of Pai, police said on Thursday.

Sergeant Uthai Dechawiwat, allowed to walk free after surrendering to police, was reassigned to the town of Pang Ma Pa, 70 km (44 miles) north of Pai near the Myanmar border, while police conduct their investigation.

And on leave from duty for the foreseeable future. If anyone thinks he's in Pang Ma Pa now then they're seriously wrong. He's lying low somewhere - far from Pai and Pang Ma Pa -

"We don't want witnesses to feel awkward when they go to Pai station for interviews and see Uthai there," Pai police chief Wanchai Suwanririkate told Reuters by telephone from the picturesque hill town popular with foreign backpackers.

Wanchai quoted witnesses as saying Uthai, who had just finished his shift, was asked to stop a three-way fight between John Leo Del Pinto, 25, his ex-girlfriend Carly Reisig, 24, and her Thai boyfriend on Saturday night.

Del Pinto, a native of Calgary, was trying to stop the Thai man from beating Reisig after she said she was going back to her Canadian boyfriend, Wanchai quoted the witnesses as saying.

When Uthai intervened to stop their quarrel, the trio turned on the policeman who pulled out his gun, Wanchai said.

There was a scuffle and Del Pinto was shot and killed, while Reisig was wounded and treated in hospital.

Reisig gave a different story to Bangkok's Nation newspaper on Tuesday, saying they had left a bar in Pai when a Thai man walked up to them and "hit me for no reason."

After Del Pinto pushed him away, the man got a gun from his motorcycle. There was a struggle and the man shot the Canadian in the face, she said.

"Leo fell to the ground and the man pointed the gun at his heart and fired a second shot. Then he turned around to me and aimed for my heart and shot me in the chest," Reisig was quoted as saying.

Wanchai did not comment on Reisig's version of events, but he retracted an earlier police report that she was pregnant. He said the police were waiting for the results of forensic tests and planned to interview more witnesses.

(Reporting by Nopporn Wong-Anan; Editing by Darren Schuettler and Alex Richardson

[mikethevigoman]

"Girl who witnessed friend being shot by Thai policeman denies being a troublemaker"

If the above article is to be believed in all of its detail of accounting the struggle, then the couple behaved in a very reckless manner that significantly and spectacularly contributed to the outcome of events. There also seems to be some intentional grey area in Reisig's accounting of events, "playfighting" etc. The article seems to overwhelmingly absolve the policeman of guilt, according to witnesses.

Obviously, this case needs reliable forensics, but that's not going to tell us everything. It is also very easy to medically prove if she is pregnant or not, but would be a violation of her privacy to force that issue. It would definitely help to ascertain her credibility, though.

*added: And last but not least, we all need to be conscientious of the source of these articles. Who is Owen Williams/showbiz spy - an independent journalist? From where? I think as these news stories surface, the source - which is always important - will be more so now.

** As for myself, I'll stick with Drummond.

Exactly who is Owen Williams. The article attributed seems to be the same as as the latest post on the Andrew Drummond website

She IS a trouble maker and although her behaivour might be ok in Canada - her biggest mistake was that she was

1. to young to understand and

2. not willing to understand

3. too stupid after she gave that policeman (whoever he has been) a slap in the face (wether drunk or not)

she should at least leave the area for another location, north east, center or south Thailand.

I would have done immediately - even drunk!

I judge that absolutely and alone after the words which she stated herself in the news. If the news are wrong, I am wrong too. But claiming her ex is a hero is no reason for not facing her own responsibility, but only .... well wishi washi.

maxi

No one here is saying that she was in the right if she did indeed slap a policeman. Unfortunately, when police conduct themselves as they do in Thailand, it is pretty difficult to hold them with very high esteem.

Of course some are straight, but the system makes the uniform rotten. To wear a uniform and carry a gun assigns responsibility also, which has been shown in this instance to be perceived as the right to blindly take life. Oh how wrong can people be?

I remember there was a proposal a few years ago that security guards be allowed to carry guns. Thank god that never happened, we have a corrupt and inept sizeable force already running around with guns without handing them out to even more fools.

I think of thai police the same as i think of thai bgs, you dont know one til you have seen them in a temper

[capt_canada42]

I have been in this country for several years and along with my Thai wife have noticed that it's slowly turning to <deleted>.

It is certainly getting worse, but the longer you remain here the more you see and the more you understand the way it works, and it ain't pretty.

Thailand has some very real and dangerous social problems it has to face in the near future. Forget the fantasies about "Buddhist social fabric" and other such nonsense, if you can't read the signs the way Thailand is going, you're in for a real shock.

I totally agree with you.

Phuket is over run with gun and machete weilding thugs who would be classed as parasites in any country. Samui and Pattaya is also much the same. Most country areas you have to bow to the local thug or "creep around" so not to offend the un eductated lazy bums that sit most of the day and achieve nothing.

I get sick of hearing about "the poor underprivelaged Thai" who has nothing. I was a street kid from the age of 10 years old and had no money to eat or a place to call home. In any society you are what you make of yourself.

To the people who say if you dont like it, go home etc or the others, that say we are guests in Thailand, well I have family, businesses and as someone else said, we are world citizens and we should fight for what is right in any country we are in. If not, we are just as bad as the people who commit the crimes..

These types of gun weilding idiots who have no regard to life, should be hung or shot and it should be televised on TV for the country to see what happens. It is just to easy in this country to walk out of jail after you have taken someone elses life.. Its sickening and no good for Thailand in any form of business also.

I hope this cop gets the death penalty!

Boy are you ever naive they kill people over here who protest e.g. Union people, conservationists, and people who mess around with the authorities

[Johpa]

Regardless of who punched who, the Policeman should be severely punished for escalating the event into an unnecessary fatality.

If indeed the drunk farang couple were going after the drunk cop's gun, as some versions state, then all bets are off. If I were a cop and someone was trying to take a firearm away from me, I retrieved the firearm, and the people were then still coming after me, I might shoot too. And regardless of the type of handgun, hitting a target less than two meters away does not take much skill. And with the adrenaline rushing, firing three shots in rapid succession, again regardless of the make of the handgun, also takes little skill. It would appear that all sides share some blame in this tragedy although ultimately the policeman must take the blame for pulling the trigger.

[capt_canada42]

If the rose tinted brigade stay long enough and have enough interactions with mainstream Thai society, they eventually get to see this the same way as the Thais, without the shades.

Without the shades you find out that not only is the Thai police force corrupt but basically the whole Thai society is corrupt. In fact it has to be corrupt because without corruption the patronage system doesn't work and without the patronage system the whole society would fall apart.

In Thailand there's many shades of corruption and it's not always a bad thing.

Yes I can sure tell you have been here a long time, when you say corruption its not such a bad thing, obviously you never had to deal with the things these people who were shot have.

[yorkman]

Off course they are some good cops and others who are bad or corrupt are not bad or corrupt all the time. I have had good and bad experiences with Thai cops. I have been involved in two traffic accidents where the cops treated me absolutely fairly despite being a farang in a collision with a Thai. I have also been in a situation where a police captain spent four hours holding me in the station threatening me and trying to extort money out of me for getting in the way of a motorcyclist who was so drunk that he couldn't speak clearly, as acknowledged by the traffic cop at the scene who promised to support my version but disappeared soon afterwards and without coming back to the station. (I didn't pay but also didn't get home till the early hours when he finished his shift). I once had police come to my office to try to frame me for something invented by a politician looking for a random foreign scapegoat for something that was fortunately so absurd that it wouldn't stick and they eventually backed off and apologised. I have also had the comic aggravation of police stepping out from behind a bush at 2 in the morning and catching me do an illegal right turn when there was not a car in sight (fair cop but is it a worthwhile allocation of taxpayer's resources?). Whenever I go to my local cop shop on routine matters such as reporting lost documents I find they are always incredibly friendly and helpful and I genuinely believe that I get better service because I am a farang.

...........................

I trimmed your post down Arkady just to avoid repetition

It was a long post that I struggled through (paragraphs etc) but IMHO you are absolutely right.

I find the police very friendly, if you deal with them in the right way, and (occasionally) there is a bit of tea money involved.

The rantings of Victor etc will in time become stuff of TV legend

[thaigene2]

If the rose tinted brigade stay long enough and have enough interactions with mainstream Thai society, they eventually get to see this the same way as the Thais, without the shades.

Without the shades you find out that not only is the Thai police force corrupt but basically the whole Thai society is corrupt. In fact it has to be corrupt because without corruption the patronage system doesn't work and without the patronage system the whole society would fall apart.

In Thailand there's many shades of corruption and it's not always a bad thing.

Agree with the point that corruption is necessary for a patronage system to work and that is Thailand to the core...not just its police.

But to say it's not such a bad thing is plain wrong-ooo in by books. One day Thailand will have to change that - cause too many people get left behind. Nowadays people see for themmselves what goes on - even the poor - and they want in. There isn't enough "patronage" to go around and at some point it will collapse in on itself. Look at what's happening in rural China right now...

[mikethevigoman]

Regardless of who punched who, the Policeman should be severely punished for escalating the event into an unnecessary fatality.

If indeed the drunk farang couple were going after the drunk cop's gun, as some versions state, then all bets are off. If I were a cop and someone was trying to take a firearm away from me, I retrieved the firearm, and the people were then still coming after me, I might shoot too. And regardless of the type of handgun, hitting a target less than two meters away does not take much skill. And with the adrenaline rushing, firing three shots in rapid succession, again regardless of the make of the handgun, also takes little skill. It would appear that all sides share some blame in this tragedy although ultimately the policeman must take the blame for pulling the trigger.

What should he have done to prevent his gun being taken ?

[capt_canada42]

If the rose tinted brigade stay long enough and have enough interactions with mainstream Thai society, they eventually get to see this the same way as the Thais, without the shades.

Without the shades you find out that not only is the Thai police force corrupt but basically the whole Thai society is corrupt. In fact it has to be corrupt because without corruption the patronage system doesn't work and without the patronage system the whole society would fall apart.

In Thailand there's many shades of corruption and it's not always a bad thing.

Agree with the point that corruption is necessary for a patronage system to work and that is Thailand to the core...not just its police.

But to say it's not such a bad thing is plain wrong-ooo in by books. One day Thailand will have to change that - cause too many people get left behind. Nowadays people see for themmselves what goes on - even the poor - and they want in. There isn't enough "patronage" to go around and at some point it will collapse in on itself. Look at what's happening in rural China right now...

Right on ! I see how it holds this place back and can remember some terrible things that have been done because of corruption e.g. when heavy metals where pumped into the deep water wells in Bangkok by government order to get rid of them thus polluting the basic water system of Bangkok now thats almost 30 years ago but I will bet the heavy metals are still there contaminating the water and how many people have gotten cancer from that!

[Prakanong]

If the rose tinted brigade stay long enough and have enough interactions with mainstream Thai society, they eventually get to see this the same way as the Thais, without the shades.

Without the shades you find out that not only is the Thai police force corrupt but basically the whole Thai society is corrupt. In fact it has to be corrupt because without corruption the patronage system doesn't work and without the patronage system the whole society would fall apart.

In Thailand there's many shades of corruption and it's not always a bad thing.

Agree with the point that corruption is necessary for a patronage system to work and that is Thailand to the core...not just its police.

But to say it's not such a bad thing is plain wrong-ooo in by books. One day Thailand will have to change that - cause too many people get left behind. Nowadays people see for themmselves what goes on - even the poor - and they want in. There isn't enough "patronage" to go around and at some point it will collapse in on itself. Look at what's happening in rural China right now...

Corruption can be seen as a hidden tax - this "higher" tax regime discourages investors amd puts up the cost of living for Thai's.

[DamianMavis]

Ok this is thoroughly RIDICULOUS. Now all 3 people attacked the policeman..... CMON! Surely with this latest insane statement even the die hard defenders can see this is all lies?! Now the 2 falangs AND a thai man that would totally know better all simutaneously attacked the police officer. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Damian

[Arkady]

Was discussing this case and the Bank silence killing case with my Thai girl friend this evening and was reminded to ask her about another murder case closer to home. Just over a year ago her younger brother's best friend from school was shot dead while walking along a Bangkok street in a drive-by fun killing by a juvenile delinquent. The young hoodlum, who didn't know the victim from Adam, leaned out of a bus window in broad daylight and shot him in the head with a home made gun to show off his bravery to his friends. This was in front of a bus full of witnesses and the murderer was arrested immediately and confessed to the crime. Soon it turned out he was the son of a local policeman (not a senior one), so he was let out on bail immediately with his father's position as surety. Today there has been no progress at all in the prosecution of what should be an open and shut case and the victim's father, who is not a very wealthy or well educated man, after being stonewalled and threatened repeatedly by police for a year has sadly resigned himself to the fact that he will never see justice done for his son. Meanwhile, the murderer is happily roaming the streets terrorising people and may well have killed again by now. The case has never reported on at all on TV or in any Thai or English language print media. These type of cases where police (and even their families) kill or maim with apparent impunity must be so common in Thailand that the media don't bother to report them, unless there is something of special interest in the story e.g. foreign victims or the amputation of pretty young girl's arm.

[DamianMavis]

Was discussing this case and the Bank silence killing case with my Thai girl friend this evening and was reminded to ask her about another murder case closer to home. Just over a year ago her younger brother's best friend from school was shot dead while walking along a Bangkok street in a drive-by fun killing by a juvenile delinquent. The young hoodlum, who didn't know the victim from Adam, leaned out of a bus window in broad daylight and shot him in the head with a home made gun to show off his bravery to his friends. This was in front of a bus full of witnesses and the murderer was arrested immediately and confessed to the crime. Soon it turned out he was the son of a local policeman (not a senior one), so he was let out on bail immediately with his father's position as surety. Today there has been no progress at all in the prosecution of what should be an open and shut case and the victim's father, who is not a very wealthy or well educated man, after being stonewalled and threatened repeatedly by police for a year has sadly resigned himself to the fact that he will never see justice done for his son. Meanwhile, the murderer is happily roaming the streets terrorising people and may well have killed again by now. The case has never reported on at all on TV or in any Thai or English language print media. These type of cases where police (and even their families) kill or maim with apparent impunity must be so common in Thailand that the media don't bother to report them, unless there is something of special interest in the story e.g. foreign victims or the amputation of pretty young girl's arm.

If ever there was a perfect example of the problems I keep referring to it is that example right there. Dear lord... it makes me sick.

Damian