Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[Arkady]

In any homicide investigation, it is ALWAYS the evidence that spells the difference between an acquital or a conviction. Eyewitness testimony is often unreliable. In this case, I would discount all eyewitness testimony and look at the physical evidence. It should tell what really happened.

You are right Farang Prince and I defer to your professional knowledge of the subject. But the problem here may be that Thai authorities cannot always be relied upon to collect and present physical evidence in a professional and impartial way. Judges are also known to favor arguments put forward by police which often hinge largely on confessions and eyewitness testimony over physical evidence and there are no juries. Remember the trial of Chalerm's son for the murder of a police sergeant? The case boiled down largely to the fact that a bartender in a nightclub with subdued lighting could not testify with 100% certainty that he saw the suspect holding a gun in his hand. He could only attest that he saw the suspect standing in a shooting position with his hand against the victim's forehead just before the victim collapsed with a bullet wound to the forehead and powder burns indicating point blank range. The bullet was fired from a .32 Beretta semi auto and an indentical gun was registered in the name of suspect's mother and was known to have been fired by the suspect at a firing range shortly before the incident. The suspect's father testified that the gun had mysteriously been lost just before the incident and has never been found. An expert witness testified that a .32 Beretta is such a small hand gun that it would have been difficult to see in a shooter's hand in the conditions that prevail. There was no one else who was in a position to have fired the shot. Nevertheless, what to an amateur view seemed conclusive evidence was dismissed by the court because it could not be confirmed with 100% certainty by the eyewitness who would have had to live the rest of his life in fear for his and his family's safety, if he had convicted the suspect. No one else was ever charged with the crime and the acquitted suspect is currently preparing himself for a role in the next PPP led government.

[Journalist]

Not a great deal has been said about the victim so far, but his Facebook profile already has several messages of condolences (name Leo John). From reading his profile you can see his photos and an insight into his character to some extent (serious about child and animal welfare etc.).

Could you post here in TV his pics and all info contained there. There is alot of members in Facebook of simular description etc. You also have to sign up.

thx

...oh, for pity's sake. How ludicrously sentimental !

What do we need to see his photos for? Next thing, we'll be hiring a Thaivisa coach to take us all to the crime scene to place posies of flowers.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

One thing that could shed light on the truth is a truth detection brain scan of the victim. Brain imaging lie detector tests have come a long way since they were first developed. Though still not perfect their interpretaion greatly increases the odds someone is lying or telling the truth depending on the results. Attorneys in the US hate this technology which if perfected would likely be admissible in US courts though only if the person agrees to take the test. Perhaps when she returns home some enterprising news organization will offer to pay for one. It could reveal a lot. If the cop is guilty it would certainly make a coverup smell in the eyes of the rest of the world. If not the matter would be laid to rest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4051211.stm

[Prakanong]

At the end of the day, who gives a f*** about bs stories! Perhaps the girl likes her drink and mouths off on occasion, so what; the lad a bit of a hippy-type on weed on occasion, so what. We all know the story here. The cop was pissed and lost face through being shoved and the facts are that a kid was blown away and another badly wounded and the cop with the smoking gun has not a blemish on him. The cops will do their utmost to come out clean, witnesses will be threatened, this bs system will once again prevail and Thailand will once again take a huge step back towards the Stone age.

Succinct, to the point and probably 99.9999% accurate.

I do not know about this incident putting Thailand back in any way though as I see no forward movement from incidents like this being accepted with a mai pen rai attitude ie we can not do anything about it

[mikethevigoman]

Ok this is thoroughly RIDICULOUS. Now all 3 people attacked the policeman..... CMON! Surely with this latest insane statement even the die hard defenders can see this is all lies?! Now the 2 falangs AND a thai man that would totally know better all simutaneously attacked the police officer. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Damian

Well it makes sense because Fuen is perhaps now being threatened with doing time for assaulting a policeman and trying to take his gun. Since the police could decline to recommend bail, he could spend two years on remand awaiting trial and being tried in the slow Thai courts. This prospect might help make his recollections of events more accomodating to Pai's finest. Since he was said to have been walking behind Del Pinto and Reisig he probably got a very clear view of what happened but has not yet made public his version.

Yes, i too think the thai boyfriend wil soon become a turncoat,.

[mikethevigoman]

At the end of the day, who gives a f*** about bs stories! Perhaps the girl likes her drink and mouths off on occasion, so what; the lad a bit of a hippy-type on weed on occasion, so what. We all know the story here. The cop was pissed and lost face through being shoved and the facts are that a kid was blown away and another badly wounded and the cop with the smoking gun has not a blemish on him. The cops will do their utmost to come out clean, witnesses will be threatened, this bs system will once again prevail and Thailand will once again take a huge step back towards the Stone age.

Succinct, to the point and probably 99.9999% accurate.

I do not know about this incident putting Thailand back in any way though as I see no forward movement from incidents like this being accepted with a mai pen rai attitude ie we can not do anything about it

I see 2 things happening here, the thais doing nothing and all of us lot jumping up and down, the result will unfotunatly be the same, NOTHING, do the thais know something we dont ?,.

[Journalist]

some enterprising news organization will offer to pay for one. It could reveal a lot.

News agencies don't pay for truth brain scans. We're not the police.

The business model is simple.

A. Where's the advertising revenue?

B. See Priority A.

Unless you're Woodward and Bernstein thats how it works, sorry I can't be more idealistic. If there was a Pulitzer Prize in it, maybe.

But for this broad, there ain't.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

In the US CBS television's 60 Minutes news magazine pays for tests in specific instances as do their competitors on the other networks. Shooting foreigners with impunity is something those groups might do a story on. Outside the US I can't say. The tests aren't really that expensive. A polygraph by a ex-FBI polygraph quality control specialist is under $1000 US. The MRI can probably be done for twice that. There are already 2 commercial companies marketing the systems in the US.

Edited January 11, 2008 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[Journalist]

In the US CBS television's 60 Minutes news magazine pays for tests in specific instances as do their competitors on the other networks. Shooting foreigners with impunity is something those groups might do a story on. Outside the US I can't say. The tests aren't really that expensive. A polygraph by a ex-FBI polygraph quality control specialist is under $1000 US. The MRI can probably be done for twice that. There are already 2 commercial companies marketing the systems in the US.

Sure, it'll pay for Roger Clemens to take a lie detector. Mike Wallace intimated as much yesterday when I saw his piece.

But...this incident/story is inconsequential from a news perspective. Its incredibly niche in its human interest angle. The victims aren't very appealing, and few (beyond internet forums) want to read investigative pieces about the shenanigans of the Thai police.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Journalist

[Stephen Cleary]

Gwendolyn Richards and Noel Boivin

Calgary Herald and Special to the Herald

A Thai police officer accused of murdering a Calgary man says Leo Del Pinto and Carly Reisig attacked him after he told them to stop fighting.

Sgt.-Maj. Uthai Dechawiwat said he was attacked by Reisig. Three shots were fired as he was falling following a struggle for his gun early Sunday morning, killing Del Pinto and seriously injuring Reisig.

"They were both hitting me," he said Wednesday, showing bruises on his elbow and pulling up the cuff of his jeans to reveal more contusions.

A spokesman for the Del Pinto family was angered to hear of the officer's reported injuries, considering the scuffle claimed the life of the friendly 25-year-old.

"We struggle to find how he can portray himself as a victim here," said Ross Fortune, who is engaged to one of Del Pinto's sisters.

"We have a dead family member and a girl in a hospital with a bullet wound near her heart."

On Wednesday, Dechawiwat and others gathered on the cordoned-off bridge to re-enact the fatal shooting -- a common practice for major crimes in Thailand.

The officer said he ordered food from a local restaurant and was in line waiting when he heard Del Pinto and Reisig arguing.

Reisig, recovering from a bullet wound that narrowly missed her heart, told the Herald on Wednesday morning that she and Del Pinto were being loud as they were walking together after being at a local bar in Pai -- a small town in northern Thailand.

The friends, who met in Vancouver, had not seen each other in months and were catching up as they went out that night.

"Me and Leo have the kind of relationship where we always playfight and joke around," she said. "We weren't causing any harm to each other."

The owner of the restaurant where Dechawiwat was waiting for food confirmed she asked the police officer to break up the so-called fight.

"They were arguing for a long time and it was very loud and I thought the arguing would disturb people who were trying to sleep nearby," Saijai Kawin said.

Dechawiwat reported he announced he was a police officer as he walked over to the pair on a small bridge that crosses a stream from Pai River.

"I said, 'I police, you stop. You stop now,' " he said. "They didn't stop."

Reisig was the first to hit him, he added.

Del Pinto and Reisig then hit him and pushed him into a motorcycle. As he fell, the off-duty police officer's gun came loose from his holster, he said.

The officer and Del Pinto struggled for the gun and as he wrested it from the Calgary man's hands, Dechawiwat fell backwards and the three shots that killed Del Pinto and wounded Reisig were fired, he said Wednesday.

The officer investigating the case, Lt.-Col. Sombat Panya said the gun involved had no safety.

With Del Pinto dead on the bridge and Reisig unconscious a short way down the road where she had stumbled after she was shot, Dechawiwat saw some people come toward the scene and pulled him away. He then said he went to the police station and filed a report.

Del Pinto spokesman Fortune questioned why the accused officer's story has changed since initial reports immediately following the shooting, when he made no mention of Reisig making the first move.

Reisig, a former Vancouver resident, has said the police officer hit her with no warning while they were walking.

Fortune also said he failed to see how it could be an accidental shooting when all three bullets hit Del Pinto and Reisig in the "kill zone."

Regardless whether Reisig hit the officer or Del Pinto pushed him, the alleged force used by Dechawiwat was unwarranted, he said.

"These two were still unarmed," Fortune said, adding the Del Pinto family stands by Reisig's story.

An official said Reisig was known to police following an incident at a bar several months ago, but no charges were filed.

"I requested she go to the police station to be interviewed," said Apiwat Phomkham, the assistant district director for Pai.

Reisig confirmed her boyfriend at the time had been in a fight at a bar and she did go to the station, but left about 15 minutes later.

Del Pinto, meanwhile, was being remembered as a polite man who had been welcomed into the community.

Phomkham said he has heard positive reports from people he has spoken to within the district.

Del Pinto would "wai" -- clasp his hands together in prayer-like fashion and bow slightly, which is a common and polite Thai greeting -- when meeting people.

"Those who knew Leo said he was a good person. He loved Thailand," Phomkham said.

Reisig has been moved out of intensive care, but doesn't know how much longer she will be in the hospital.

She has been warned not to return to Pai over concerns for her safety, she said.

During a meeting with police to get her side of events, she was told they would fly her from Chiang Mai to Mae Hong Sun to ensure she did not return to Pai.

"They informed me it is unsafe for me right now," she said.

She plans to return to Canada as soon as possible.

"I'm scared to be in Thailand right now."

Panya said that contrary to rumours, Dechawiwat had a good service record -- he was not on probation for a prior offence at the time of the shooting and had no disciplinary complaints against him.

"He was a good policeman," Panya said.

Dechawiwat has been transferred for 30 days to do administrative work in Bangmapha District while he awaits trial.

The Calgary Herald 2008

Edited January 11, 2008 by Stephen Cleary

[DamianMavis]

This is a dead story, Kat.

Thats why your Thai papers aren't covering it anymore. Reporters can only do second day-leads if there is some fresh angle. (Unless their subbies are uncommonly nice, but 99% of Sub Editors are cruelty personified - so that seldom happens).

Katherine Horton in Ko Samui, backpackers in Kanchanaburi. The moral of this story is 'shit happens'.

"He deserves the death penalty or at the least, life behind bars with no chance of pardon or parole. I'll repeat my earlier assertion that all cops and their superiors (on up to the top of the heap) in Thailand should get docked one week of pay - with the proceeds going to the families of the two farang, and the surviving girl. "

Magic mushroom omelette for breakfast, anyone?

Not a great deal has been said about the victim so far, but his Facebook profile already has several messages of condolences (name Leo John). From reading his profile you can see his photos and an insight into his character to some extent (serious about child and animal welfare etc.).

Could you post here in TV his pics and all info contained there. There is alot of members in Facebook of simular description etc. You also have to sign up.

thx

...oh, for pity's sake. How ludicrously sentimental !

What do we need to see his photos for? Next thing, we'll be hiring a Thaivisa coach to take us all to the crime scene to place posies of flowers.

What is your major malfunction? Are you really such a heartless jerk? "shit happens"? Why are you so blase?

Damian

[Journalist]

^ I can't be emotional about everyone in this world who loses his life in sad circumstances. Nor do I want to see Facebook photos.

Not just sentimental - its morbidity to be so emotionally invested in this stranger.

In fact the disembodied passion of respondents is the only thing making this topic readable. Its an open and shut ho-hum case otherwise. Boozed up freaks having a stand-off.

So the Thai police are roguish. Well ring-a-ding-ding. A more eye-opening story would be one that illustrated an 180 degree opposite scenario - cos anyone even moderately well-informed knows the spotty record of 3rd world cops. News that they're dodgy doesn't hold the front pages long.

If that doesn't gel, then do like Sabaijai suggested and head up there and write a fresh angle.

[DamianMavis]

Actually alot of people didnt seem to know that the police were "dodgy" here and were arguing against it. Not to mention the people from overseas reading this thread. But as long as you know then I guess thats all that matters and we should end the discussion right now! WOW! You have a strange perspective.

Damian

[Ricardo]

It is rather revealing when people like this and the famous Bangkok pimp can make it into Thai politics and positions of influence.

If that's the soapy-massage-king, he was actually quite popular with some Thais. His appeal was that he knew the crooked cops, because he'd been paying them off for years, to let his six establishments trade without problems. A bit of a 'Mr Clean' figure, in fact. (Sorry )

Unfortunately he was too clean for Thai politics, encountered registration problems, got disillusioned.

Which also says something about his political bed-fellows.

[Journalist]

Actually alot of people didnt seem to know that the police were "dodgy" here and were arguing against it. Not to mention the people from overseas reading this thread. But as long as you know then I guess thats all that matters and we should end the discussion right now! WOW! You have a strange perspective.

Damian

Did you know?

I imagine you didn't.

Because if you did know, you should have been able to deduce some logical answers to the rhetorical questions that you're posing.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Journalist

[Sao Jiang Mai]

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

[farang prince]

Well, now I have serious problems with Dechawiwit's statement during the reenactment of the crime. He fired three shots at the Canadians while he was falling down? Three shots that hit the victims in the "five ring"? Are you kidding me? I can't believe he was stupid enough to make that statement. He should have stuck to his original story that he was struggling with Del Pinto over control of the gun and that it went off accidentally. But here is the problem with his statement that he fired three shots while falling down...it doesn't correspond to the wound pattern on Del Pinto. He was shot in the mouth and the bullet exited behind the left shoulder. If he fired the three rounds while falling down, the round that hit Del Pinto in the mouth would have continued on an upward trajectory and should have exited in the lower part of the back of the skull. This proves he is lying. To have the bullet exit behind the left shoulder, Dechawiwit would have had to have been above Del Pinto or Del Pinto would have had to have been lunging down in close proximity to the officer. The Thai cop just hung himself.

Edited January 11, 2008 by farang prince

[joskydive]

^ I can't be emotional about everyone in this world who loses his life in sad circumstances. Nor do I want to see Facebook photos.

Some of us can be emotional because we have feelings and some of us may want to see the Facebook photos. It's not up to you to decide.

Not just sentimental - its morbidity to be so emotionally invested in this stranger.

It's sadness over the loss of a 24 year old kid who's just starting in life and came to his end in the part of the world we are living in.

In fact the disembodied passion of respondents is the only thing making this topic readable. Its an open and shut ho-hum case otherwise. Boozed up freaks having a stand-off.

Boozed up or not, freaks?????, having a stand-off? Is that what you call it now? Maybe that's what you can say to their families. I'm sure they'd appreciate your input!

So the Thai police are roguish. Well ring-a-ding-ding. A more eye-opening story would be one that illustrated an 180 degree opposite scenario - cos anyone even moderately well-informed knows the spotty record of 3rd world cops. News that they're dodgy doesn't hold the front pages long.

Roguish? Is that what you call killing someone now?

If that doesn't gel, then do like Sabaijai suggested and head up there and write a fresh angle.

[lannarebirth]

I have no idea what may have or may not have happened in Pai on that night. The most interesting aspect of this case to me is observing how interactive media can create truth and falsity. Each day new "truths" are hauled out for the public to "try on". Each day they decide what "truth" they're willing to believe. That determines which truth you'll be hearing the next day. Interactive justice and manipulation of thought. Marshall McLuhan was right after all.

[Payboy]

Each day new "truths" are hauled out for the public to "try on".

yeah, just wait till they come up with the 3rd gunman on the grassy knoll in this one...

[Journalist]

^ I can't be emotional about everyone in this world who loses his life in sad circumstances. Nor do I want to see Facebook photos.

Some of us can be emotional because we have feelings and some of us may want to see the Facebook photos. It's not up to you to decide.

Not just sentimental - its morbidity to be so emotionally invested in this stranger.

It's sadness over the loss of a 24 year old kid who's just starting in life and came to his end in the part of the world we are living in.

In fact the disembodied passion of respondents is the only thing making this topic readable. Its an open and shut ho-hum case otherwise. Boozed up freaks having a stand-off.

Boozed up or not, freaks?????, having a stand-off? Is that what you call it now? Maybe that's what you can say to their families. I'm sure they'd appreciate your input!

So the Thai police are roguish. Well ring-a-ding-ding. A more eye-opening story would be one that illustrated an 180 degree opposite scenario - cos anyone even moderately well-informed knows the spotty record of 3rd world cops. News that they're dodgy doesn't hold the front pages long.

Roguish? Is that what you call killing someone now?

If that doesn't gel, then do like Sabaijai suggested and head up there and write a fresh angle.

Well without wishing to rain on the funeral parade.....

You can't just download photos from Facebook in most cases. People have to accept you as a friend there before strangers can gawp at the human peep show that is their lives.

I just had a look for you - couldn't see him there. Sorry.

[lannarebirth]

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

Nice symmetry.

[cm-happy]

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

Nice symmetry.

GREAT NEWS!!

Was wondering when the police would charge her with, disorderly conduct, assault,resisting arrest, hope they throw the book at her. With any luck she'll be deported PNG never to return.

[DamianMavis]

Well, now I have serious problems with Dechawiwit's statement during the reenactment of the crime. He fired three shots at the Canadians while he was falling down? Three shots that hit the victims in the "five ring"? Are you kidding me? I can't believe he was stupid enough to make that statement. He should have stuck to his original story that he was struggling with Del Pinto over control of the gun and that it went off accidentally. But here is the problem with his statement that he fired three shots while falling down...it doesn't correspond to the wound pattern on Del Pinto. He was shot in the mouth and the bullet exited behind the left shoulder. If he fired the three rounds while falling down, the round that hit Del Pinto in the mouth would have continued on an upward trajectory and should have exited in the lower part of the back of the skull. This proves he is lying. To have the bullet exit behind the left shoulder, Dechawiwit would have had to have been above Del Pinto or Del Pinto would have had to have been lunging down in close proximity to the officer. The Thai cop just hung himself.

The police statements have been ridiculous from the beginning, but I guarantee this wont change a thing, he is not even going to be suspended, maybe not even the classic punishment of permanent transfer, certainly not any real kind of punishment like imprisonment.... you guys watch.

Damian

[Gary A]

Since there have been several mentions of what Thai people think, I discussed it with my Thai wife. She is of the opinion that ANYONE who wants to fight with the Thai police are REALLY stupid. If the police are drunk or wrong you still lose. I agree with her.

[DamianMavis]

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

Nice symmetry.

GREAT NEWS!!

Was wondering when the police would charge her with, disorderly conduct, assault,resisting arrest, hope they throw the book at her. With any luck she'll be deported PNG never to return.

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic..... you might want to change your avatar so as not to be confused with FarangPrince

Damian

[rafval]

What I also find surprising here is that no member of the girls family has come to support her when she almost lost her life too. If it were my daughter, nothing and no-one would stop me from being by her side no matter where in the world she is.

not everyone has nice families

not everyone has wealthy families, alltho I realize most thais assume that all farang are rich enough to go anywhere anytime that doesnt mean its true

[Journalist]

Damien

Were you in the movie Kingmaker by any chance. I've got some photos of us dressed as Portuguese soldiers.

A tai kwon do teacher?...possibly Langsuan soi.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Journalist

[farang prince]

Well, now I have serious problems with Dechawiwit's statement during the reenactment of the crime. He fired three shots at the Canadians while he was falling down? Three shots that hit the victims in the "five ring"? Are you kidding me? I can't believe he was stupid enough to make that statement. He should have stuck to his original story that he was struggling with Del Pinto over control of the gun and that it went off accidentally. But here is the problem with his statement that he fired three shots while falling down...it doesn't correspond to the wound pattern on Del Pinto. He was shot in the mouth and the bullet exited behind the left shoulder. If he fired the three rounds while falling down, the round that hit Del Pinto in the mouth would have continued on an upward trajectory and should have exited in the lower part of the back of the skull. This proves he is lying. To have the bullet exit behind the left shoulder, Dechawiwit would have had to have been above Del Pinto or Del Pinto would have had to have been lunging down in close proximity to the officer. The Thai cop just hung himself.

The police statements have been ridiculous from the beginning, but I guarantee this wont change a thing, he is not even going to be suspended, maybe not even the classic punishment of permanent transfer, certainly not any real kind of punishment like imprisonment.... you guys watch.

Damian

The police statements might have been ridiculous from the beginning for you Damian. But I don't get caught up in the hype. I look at the physical evidence and the statements of the participants. And in this case, Dechawiwit's statements now don't correspond with the physical evidence. The Royal Thai Police might try to cover up this shooting...perhaps it will depend on the notoriety of the case to determine if they are successful. If I was the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok, I would bring an experienced crime scene reconstructionist from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to Thailand to review the evidence and statements of the participants and witnesses and arrive at an independent conclusion. I would then forward that conclusion to the hierarchy at the Royal Thai Police along with an official protect from the Canadian government. If the Canadian government rolls over in this case where one of their citizens was murdered and another seriously wounded, then the Canadian media should raise hel_l from now until election day in Canada. One of the major functions of a national government is to protect the rights of their citizens abroad. In this case, the rights of two people have been violated.

Edited January 11, 2008 by farang prince

[cm-happy]

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

Nice symmetry.

GREAT NEWS!!

Was wondering when the police would charge her with, disorderly conduct, assault,resisting arrest, hope they throw the book at her. With any luck she'll be deported PNG never to return.

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic..... you might want to change your avatar so as not to be confused with FarangPrince

Damian

No Damian I was NOT being sarcastic, was serious. Why should I change my avatar? I like it!