Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[joskydive]

^ I can't be emotional about everyone in this world who loses his life in sad circumstances. Nor do I want to see Facebook photos.

Some of us can be emotional because we have feelings and some of us may want to see the Facebook photos. It's not up to you to decide.

Not just sentimental - its morbidity to be so emotionally invested in this stranger.

It's sadness over the loss of a 24 year old kid who's just starting in life and came to his end in the part of the world we are living in.

In fact the disembodied passion of respondents is the only thing making this topic readable. Its an open and shut ho-hum case otherwise. Boozed up freaks having a stand-off.

Boozed up or not, freaks?????, having a stand-off? Is that what you call it now? Maybe that's what you can say to their families. I'm sure they'd appreciate your input!

So the Thai police are roguish. Well ring-a-ding-ding. A more eye-opening story would be one that illustrated an 180 degree opposite scenario - cos anyone even moderately well-informed knows the spotty record of 3rd world cops. News that they're dodgy doesn't hold the front pages long.

Roguish? Is that what you call killing someone now?

If that doesn't gel, then do like Sabaijai suggested and head up there and write a fresh angle.

Well without wishing to rain on the funeral parade.....

You can't just download photos from Facebook in most cases. People have to accept you as a friend there before strangers can gawp at the human peep show that is their lives.

I just had a look for you - couldn't see him there. Sorry.

Thanks but don't bother on my behalf. I'm very careful with whom I make requests of and who I mix with.

[Arkady]

Well, now I have serious problems with Dechawiwit's statement during the reenactment of the crime. He fired three shots at the Canadians while he was falling down? Three shots that hit the victims in the "five ring"? Are you kidding me? I can't believe he was stupid enough to make that statement. He should have stuck to his original story that he was struggling with Del Pinto over control of the gun and that it went off accidentally. But here is the problem with his statement that he fired three shots while falling down...it doesn't correspond to the wound pattern on Del Pinto. He was shot in the mouth and the bullet exited behind the left shoulder. If he fired the three rounds while falling down, the round that hit Del Pinto in the mouth would have continued on an upward trajectory and should have exited in the lower part of the back of the skull. This proves he is lying. To have the bullet exit behind the left shoulder, Dechawiwit would have had to have been above Del Pinto or Del Pinto would have had to have been lunging down in close proximity to the officer. The Thai cop just hung himself.

Good work and you are clearly right. But I fear this evidence could be easily ignored by the public prosecutor (another notoriously corrupt department in Thailand), who would have very little interest in winning this case, and or the court. The suspect can also change his story to make a better match with the evidence and just say he was confused as a result of the severe beating he got from the two Canadians and apparently from the Thai boyfriend whom the police now say also joined in the attack on the suspect.

The victims are not going to have expensive lawyers shadowing the prosecution, as happened in the case of the gynaecologist with influential family and friends who chopped his wife into pieces and flushed her down the can in two different locations. In that case the lower court acquitted on the grounds that, even though witnesses testified that the suspect had flushed the toilet continuously for hours in both places and DNA matches on many bits of flesh and bone were made in both cess pools, the lack of a complete body meant that there was no evidence that the victim was actually dead! The victim's father also had friends and money and he later won a civil case against the suspect which presented the evidence so well that the public prosecutor was shamed into appealing and eventually secured a conviction and death sentence - recently commuted to life.

The Canadian victims' families clearly don't have high level connections in Thailand or a lot of money. Reisig's family is worrying about how to pay her hospital bills and no one has flown out to give her support. I raise all these examples to emphasise the fact that the entire justice system is totally corrupt in Thailand and that poor people without inflential connections cannot expect anything approaching what Westerners consider justice when they come up against the powerful. There are only a handful of institutions more powerful than the police.

[Journalist]

The Canadian victims' families clearly don't have high level connections in Thailand or a lot of money. Reisig's family is worrying about how to pay her hospital bills and no one has flown out to give her support. I raise all these examples to emphasise the fact that the entire justice system is totally corrupt in Thailand and that poor people without inflential connections cannot expect anything approaching what Westerners consider justice when they come up against the powerful. There are only a handful of institutions more powerful than the police.

Josky will initiate the collection, and Damien will be Reisig's bodyguard.

No sane cop would pull a gun on Damien, - because I can tell you for a fact that he can beat the living crap out of just about anyone. He's like a 5th Dan or something.

[Arkady]

Bringing foreign police out doesn't seem to help much. British police spent months in Chiang Mai investigating the murder of Kirsty Jones on several different trips. They were clearly convinced that she was murdered by a tourist policeman but the Chiang Mai police obstructed them every step of the way and refused to accept their evidence for consideration. At the end of the day it depends on who has jurisdiction. The Canadian Embassy is a lot meeker even than the Brits here and it would be a big but pleasant surprise to see them bring in the Mounties.

[farang prince]

Well, now I have serious problems with Dechawiwit's statement during the reenactment of the crime. He fired three shots at the Canadians while he was falling down? Three shots that hit the victims in the "five ring"? Are you kidding me? I can't believe he was stupid enough to make that statement. He should have stuck to his original story that he was struggling with Del Pinto over control of the gun and that it went off accidentally. But here is the problem with his statement that he fired three shots while falling down...it doesn't correspond to the wound pattern on Del Pinto. He was shot in the mouth and the bullet exited behind the left shoulder. If he fired the three rounds while falling down, the round that hit Del Pinto in the mouth would have continued on an upward trajectory and should have exited in the lower part of the back of the skull. This proves he is lying. To have the bullet exit behind the left shoulder, Dechawiwit would have had to have been above Del Pinto or Del Pinto would have had to have been lunging down in close proximity to the officer. The Thai cop just hung himself.

Good work and you are clearly right. But I fear this evidence could be easily ignored by the public prosecutor (another notoriously corrupt department in Thailand), who would have very little interest in winning this case, and or the court. The suspect can also change his story to make a better match with the evidence and just say he was confused as a result of the severe beating he got from the two Canadians and apparently from the Thai boyfriend whom the police now say also joined in the attack on the suspect.

The victims are not going to have expensive lawyers shadowing the prosecution, as happened in the case of the gynaecologist with influential family and friends who chopped his wife into pieces and flushed her down the can in two different locations. In that case the lower court acquitted on the grounds that, even though witnesses testified that the suspect had flushed the toilet continuously for hours in both places and DNA matches on many bits of flesh and bone were made in both cess pools, the lack of a complete body meant that there was no evidence that the victim was actually dead! The victim's father also had friends and money and he later won a civil case against the suspect which presented the evidence so well that the public prosecutor was shamed into appealing and eventually secured a conviction and death sentence - recently commuted to life.

The Canadian victims' families clearly don't have high level connections in Thailand or a lot of money. Reisig's family is worrying about how to pay her hospital bills and no one has flown out to give her support. I raise all these examples to emphasise the fact that the entire justice system is totally corrupt in Thailand and that poor people without inflential connections cannot expect anything approaching what Westerners consider justice when they come up against the powerful. There are only a handful of institutions more powerful than the police.

Arkady, I have to disagree with you. The justice system in Thailand is not totally corrupt. However, there are people in the justice system at all levels that are corrupt. The key to this case will be the international profile that the media and the Canadian embassy can generate to put the Thai criminal justice system under the microscope.

If you have read some of my earlier posts, it is not uncommon for police departments to try to cover up the transgressions of their members. It happens in every country around the world. In my career of investigating more than 30 police-related shootings, I was subjected to a tremendous amount of pressure to exhonerate an officer. My partner and I, who had a combined 30 years of experience in homicide investigations, refused to bow under to this pressure. We followed the evidence.

I have trained more than 200 investigators with the Royal Thai Police and I know from experience that many of them have the same dedication to truth and justice that I had in my 20 years of police work. Don't sell all Thai cops short. Some of them are excellent and they deserve all the support we can give them.

[DamianMavis]

Damien

Were you in the movie Kingmaker by any chance. I've got some photos of us dressed as Portuguese soldiers.

A tai kwon do teacher?...possibly Langsuan soi.

I have a picture from Kingmaker perched on my television, it was my very first movie job so I remember it fondly (I was an extra and played about 6 different characters heh, crappy food, really low pay, hard working conditions most days out in the sun with no protection all day... and I LOVED IT).... if you can, pm me if you would be willing to send me any nice photos by email.

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

Nice symmetry.

GREAT NEWS!!

Was wondering when the police would charge her with, disorderly conduct, assault,resisting arrest, hope they throw the book at her. With any luck she'll be deported PNG never to return.

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic..... you might want to change your avatar so as not to be confused with FarangPrince

Damian

No Damian I was NOT being sarcastic, was serious. Why should I change my avatar? I like it!

Why so harsh? Almost shot to death wasnt punishment enough for whatever perceived disrespectful behaviour on her part? I guess she should have been put to death like her best friend? Would that have been a suitable punishment for possibly being an annoying falang?

Damian

[jumnien]

I think Damian is right in that they shouldn't have been shot for being stupid.

The question others visiting Thailand need to ask themselves is would they rather be right or happy?

If you would like to be happy in the Kingdom of Thailand show courtesy, deference and respect at all times and withdraw from conflict.

[selftaopath]

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

LOL oh man that is "rich." Amazing Thailand.

[learningcurve]

After reading this thread with interest, I would like to add a few comments. One can easily spot from the replies in this thread the people that may have been to Thailand on holiday, to those people that have been living in this country for some time. The 'holiday' posters are viewing this 'act' with their western values, nothing wrong in that at all, however many Thai's have no interest or understanding of western values. No matter how angry it will make people, the facts in this case will be what the Thai Police say they will be, why let the truth get in the way of an incident that the Thai's will want to brush under the carpet as soon as possible. Some posters have asked the question of what was the motive or reasoning behind the off duty Police Officer approaching the couple in the first instance. Those of you that have lived here for some time will understand what I am about to say, others will find this difficult to understand. Most Thai's do not make a decision based on reason or the facts presented before them, they will make a decision based on their feelings, this is why the Police Officer will not admit any guilt or that he had done any wrong, because how could his feelings be wrong! Many Thai's will only ever feel 'shame' when they have been seen to lose 'face' amongst their peers, they will never feel guilt or admit any responsibility, due to the fact that they carried out the act based on their feelings, and again, how can your feelings be wrong? I do not condone what happened, I am just trying to explain to some posters that the difference in western and Thai culture is so very deep, that unless you are Thai, no matter how many years you live here, you will never truly understand the Thai mindset. With that said, and hoping that I have not caused any ill feeling to any reader, the out come of this case, as always, will be a positive result for the Police Officer, and anger, and none understanding to every one else.

[joskydive]

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

LOL oh man that is "rich." Amazing Thailand.

Am I right in thinking she would have to remain in the Kingdom until her case comes up if she is sued by the Police?

[jomama]

Unfortunately the whole story sums up part of Thailand:

* Drunken, armed policeman, who has a history of drunkenness, yet is still employed and still armed

* Drunken, abusive foreign woman, who has a history of drunkeness and problems, yet is still there and still drunk

Why do you think she stayed in Thailand and he stayed employed?

Wow, what a society!

After living there for 14 years, all in all, I would say its a fun place to visit.

Especially if you're drunk.

[cm-happy]

Damien

Were you in the movie Kingmaker by any chance. I've got some photos of us dressed as Portuguese soldiers.

A tai kwon do teacher?...possibly Langsuan soi.

I have a picture from Kingmaker perched on my television, it was my very first movie job so I remember it fondly (I was an extra and played about 6 different characters heh, crappy food, really low pay, hard working conditions most days out in the sun with no protection all day... and I LOVED IT).... if you can, pm me if you would be willing to send me any nice photos by email.

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

Nice symmetry.

GREAT NEWS!!

Was wondering when the police would charge her with, disorderly conduct, assault,resisting arrest, hope they throw the book at her. With any luck she'll be deported PNG never to return.

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic..... you might want to change your avatar so as not to be confused with FarangPrince

Damian

No Damian I was NOT being sarcastic, was serious. Why should I change my avatar? I like it!

Why so harsh? Almost shot to death wasnt punishment enough for whatever perceived disrespectful behaviour on her part? I guess she should have been put to death like her best friend? Would that have been a suitable punishment for possibly being an annoying falang?

Damian

I am harsh because

She is a liar, a trouble maker, her past and current behavior/actions reflect poorly on all farang in LOS.

But, why do you defend her so? Because she was wounded? Although I've not stated on this thread, but if the local police had handled her previous misbehavior properly this tragedy may not have happened. But they handled it this time and it will not occur again at least involving her.

[DamianMavis]

So answer this question: Was almost being killed and having been severely wounded, and the other falang was killed, not punishment enough? That you would be happy they would add jail time or some other punishment seems outrageous.

Also, there is no proof she is lying yet, not to mention the fact that the encounters she had previously in her words hardly seem like she was out looking for trouble, more like trying to defend her boyfriend.... it was still stupid but its not like shes out picking fights with people. There are far worse falangs in Thailand than her, and lots of them.

Damian

[LoveDaBlues]

After reading this thread with interest, I would like to add a few comments. One can easily spot from the replies in this thread the people that may have been to Thailand on holiday, to those people that have been living in this country for some time. The 'holiday' posters are viewing this 'act' with their western values, nothing wrong in that at all, however many Thai's have no interest or understanding of western values. No matter how angry it will make people, the facts in this case will be what the Thai Police say they will be, why let the truth get in the way of an incident that the Thai's will want to brush under the carpet as soon as possible. Some posters have asked the question of what was the motive or reasoning behind the off duty Police Officer approaching the couple in the first instance. Those of you that have lived here for some time will understand what I am about to say, others will find this difficult to understand. Most Thai's do not make a decision based on reason or the facts presented before them, they will make a decision based on their feelings, this is why the Police Officer will not admit any guilt or that he had done any wrong, because how could his feelings be wrong! Many Thai's will only ever feel 'shame' when they have been seen to lose 'face' amongst their peers, they will never feel guilt or admit any responsibility, due to the fact that they carried out the act based on their feelings, and again, how can your feelings be wrong? I do not condone what happened, I am just trying to explain to some posters that the difference in western and Thai culture is so very deep, that unless you are Thai, no matter how many years you live here, you will never truly understand the Thai mindset. With that said, and hoping that I have not caused any ill feeling to any reader, the out come of this case, as always, will be a positive result for the Police Officer, and anger, and none understanding to every one else.

It took 799 posts to get it right. I agree with the crux of what you're saying. Because it's so hard to understand the Thai way of thinking (at times) I tend to only associate with a few Thai friends of high morals and my falang friends. I avoid the Thai police when possible. Imagine making friends with a Thai cop and one day he asks for a favor. What if it's something you don't want to do.......how would you feel.......what would you think......would you say no?

This is a case of a small man with a gun who was embarrassed; in his mind at the time the only thing to do was retaliate and restore face.

[jumnien]

Take a hooligan from Manchester who weighs 125 kilograms and <deleted> with him and you're going to get the sh*t beat out of you. Take a brother from Los Angeles and look at him the wrong way and your going to have a bullet in your brain. It always amazes me when farang think that other farang don't mind losing face and Thais do. People's people, baby!

[A_Traveller]

^ But on balance it is unlikley that either would be a police officer.

Regards

[JungleJim]

After reading this thread with interest, I would like to add a few comments. One can easily spot from the replies in this thread the people that may have been to Thailand on holiday, to those people that have been living in this country for some time. The 'holiday' posters are viewing this 'act' with their western values, nothing wrong in that at all, however many Thai's have no interest or understanding of western values. No matter how angry it will make people, the facts in this case will be what the Thai Police say they will be, why let the truth get in the way of an incident that the Thai's will want to brush under the carpet as soon as possible. Some posters have asked the question of what was the motive or reasoning behind the off duty Police Officer approaching the couple in the first instance. Those of you that have lived here for some time will understand what I am about to say, others will find this difficult to understand. Most Thai's do not make a decision based on reason or the facts presented before them, they will make a decision based on their feelings, this is why the Police Officer will not admit any guilt or that he had done any wrong, because how could his feelings be wrong! Many Thai's will only ever feel 'shame' when they have been seen to lose 'face' amongst their peers, they will never feel guilt or admit any responsibility, due to the fact that they carried out the act based on their feelings, and again, how can your feelings be wrong? I do not condone what happened, I am just trying to explain to some posters that the difference in western and Thai culture is so very deep, that unless you are Thai, no matter how many years you live here, you will never truly understand the Thai mindset. With that said, and hoping that I have not caused any ill feeling to any reader, the out come of this case, as always, will be a positive result for the Police Officer, and anger, and none understanding to every one else.

Pretty spot on analysis of a specific cultural difference between Thailand and the west that longer term residents struggle with and ultimately fail to relate to on any level. I understand this is how most Thais think, but cannot and will never be able to comprehend the reasoning or morality behind it. I realise that Thai values are not going to change any time soon and have come to accept that this is the way things are. It can be quite a depressing thought if you let it get to you.

This is also a big reason why corruption will continue to plague the country. With no guilty feelings (unless you are caught) whats holding you back from taking what you want.

Nice post learningcurve

[jumnien]

^ But on balance it is unlikley that either would be a police officer.

Regards

Well, that's true and it points out a basic difference between British and American cops. In Great Britain, law enforcement officers are on the whole pretty cuddly, whereas in much of the US today and especially a few decades ago, you best show a bit of respect if you wanted to see the sunrise.

[Prakanong]

Take a hooligan from Manchester who weighs 125 kilograms and <deleted> with him and you're going to get the sh*t beat out of you. Take a brother from Los Angeles and look at him the wrong way and your going to have a bullet in your brain. It always amazes me when farang think that other farang don't mind losing face and Thais do. People's people, baby!

So you are saying there are no socio-cultural differences?

ROFL

[jumnien]

Take a hooligan from Manchester who weighs 125 kilograms and <deleted> with him and you're going to get the sh*t beat out of you. Take a brother from Los Angeles and look at him the wrong way and your going to have a bullet in your brain. It always amazes me when farang think that other farang don't mind losing face and Thais do. People's people, baby!

So you are saying there are no socio-cultural differences?

ROFL

No, of course, there are differences. But often I find that farang have a very feminine or passive view of farang males in general. The reality is often quite different. Many farang men don't deal very well in situations where they feel disrespected or dominated. The prisons and morgues in farangland are filled with examples of these cases. They just go ballistic.

[cm-happy]

So answer this question: Was almost being killed and having been severely wounded, and the other falang was killed, not punishment enough? That you would be happy they would add jail time or some other punishment seems outrageous.

Also, there is no proof she is lying yet, not to mention the fact that the encounters she had previously in her words hardly seem like she was out looking for trouble, more like trying to defend her boyfriend.... it was still stupid but its not like shes out picking fights with people. There are far worse falangs in Thailand than her, and lots of them.

Damian

Damian,

Do you always answere a question with a question? Nice diversionary tactic!

I'll not engage in a debate with you. I have my opinion and you have yours. On this matter never the twain shall meet.

[LoveDaBlues]

Take a hooligan from Manchester who weighs 125 kilograms and <deleted> with him and you're going to get the sh*t beat out of you. Take a brother from Los Angeles and look at him the wrong way and your going to have a bullet in your brain. It always amazes me when farang think that other farang don't mind losing face and Thais do. People's people, baby!

Thailand is a country of 60 million. USA 300 million. I think the problem of drunk, rogue cops who almost always get away with murder is much worse in Thailand than USA. This thread IS about a cop who shot 2 people; not 'hooligans' and 'brothers'.

[jumnien]

Take a hooligan from Manchester who weighs 125 kilograms and <deleted> with him and you're going to get the sh*t beat out of you. Take a brother from Los Angeles and look at him the wrong way and your going to have a bullet in your brain. It always amazes me when farang think that other farang don't mind losing face and Thais do. People's people, baby!

Thailand is a country of 60 million. USA 300 million. I think the problem of drunk, rogue cops who almost always get away with murder is much worse in Thailand than USA. This thread IS about a cop who shot 2 people; not 'hooligans' and 'brothers'.

Sorry, I thought the thread was about 1 dead and one injured farang that very probably disrespected a drunk Thai guy that apparently turned out to be employed during his hours on duty as a local cop. I'm really more concerned with the tourists than I am with the cop.

[LoveDaBlues]

Take a hooligan from Manchester who weighs 125 kilograms and <deleted> with him and you're going to get the sh*t beat out of you. Take a brother from Los Angeles and look at him the wrong way and your going to have a bullet in your brain. It always amazes me when farang think that other farang don't mind losing face and Thais do. People's people, baby!

Thailand is a country of 60 million. USA 300 million. I think the problem of drunk, rogue cops who almost always get away with murder is much worse in Thailand than USA. This thread IS about a cop who shot 2 people; not 'hooligans' and 'brothers'.

Sorry, I thought the thread was about 1 dead and one injured farang that very probably disrespected a drunk Thai guy that apparently turned out to be employed during his hours on duty as a local cop. I'm really more concerned with the tourists than I am with the cop.

No need to be sorry. We all make mistakes.

[Foggy Bottom]

After reading this thread with interest, I would like to add a few comments. One can easily spot from the replies in this thread the people that may have been to Thailand on holiday, to those people that have been living in this country for some time. The 'holiday' posters are viewing this 'act' with their western values, nothing wrong in that at all, however many Thai's have no interest or understanding of western values.

No matter how angry it will make people, the facts in this case will be what the Thai Police say they will be, why let the truth get in the way of an incident that the Thai's will want to brush under the carpet as soon as possible.

Some posters have asked the question of what was the motive or reasoning behind the off duty Police Officer approaching the couple in the first instance. Those of you that have lived here for some time will understand what I am about to say, others will find this difficult to understand. Most Thai's do not make a decision based on reason or the facts presented before them, they will make a decision based on their feelings, this is why the Police Officer will not admit any guilt or that he had done any wrong, because how could his feelings be wrong!

Many Thai's will only ever feel 'shame' when they have been seen to lose 'face' amongst their peers, they will never feel guilt or admit any responsibility, due to the fact that they carried out the act based on their feelings, and again, how can your feelings be wrong?

I do not condone what happened, I am just trying to explain to some posters that the difference in western and Thai culture is so very deep, that unless you are Thai, no matter how many years you live here, you will never truly understand the Thai mindset. With that said, and hoping that I have not caused any ill feeling to any reader, the out come of this case, as always, will be a positive result for the Police Officer, and anger, and none understanding to every one else.

An excellent post that could only have been improved with paragraph breaks .... so I've added them for you

I am harsh because

She is a liar, a trouble maker, her past and current behavior/actions reflect poorly on all farang in LOS.

But, why do you defend her so? Because she was wounded? Although I've not stated on this thread, but if the local police had handled her previous misbehavior properly this tragedy may not have happened. But they handled it this time and it will not occur again at least involving her.

I'm starting to think the angst and passion (referred to by another poster) are not in defence of the victims, but rather are protest against the unneccesary force used by the officer.

It's a case of del Pinto and Reisig this week, but which of us next week, or next month? Unless the Thai Police learn and improve their methodology and operating procedures from this incident, then it is not just a tragic tale, it is a travesty of opportunity. (and no, I do not mean learn to shoot more accurately - before some wag posts it as a reply).

You may disagree, and I will defend your right to do so .......

.... the same right should be allowed to all posters (who remain civil and courteous to the subjects and to other posters), in addition to all persons who take an interest in the story. The crux of this story now is about rights - the rights of the public to be protected by the police, not persecuted. The rights of the police to receive fair pay and training, allowing them to do their job correctly. And most importantly, the right of laws to be obeyed (e.g. carrying gun off duty / not making a public nuisance or excess noise after midnight / bars closing at the time allotted by national and local laws etc.).

There is one overwhelming angst that I have about Thailand, and I believe it's shared by many here - Thailand likes to refer to foreigners as "guests", but when the chips are down and "guests" require the treatment, and expected privileges, of "guests", they are suddenly treated as vermin and undesirables at both local and institutional levels.

Thais often complain that "farangs" (I am neither French (farang-set) nor an infidel (ferenghi) - which ever version you prefer as origin of "farang" - both are an insult to me personally) do not learn Thai culture, yet, in inviting these "farang" guests, failing to learn the "guests" culture is also a deliberate insult to those guests.

True - foreign visitors should show respect for Thai culture, and the topless, dreadlocked and crew-cut, tattooed, drunkards wandering around Chiangmai really piss me off at their lack of sensitivity towards their hosts' culture. The last time I bought a copy of Lonely Planet or Rough Guide was back in 1999, and even then it clearly stated that going topless was strictly for the beach and poolside - advice I have followed always. It also emphasised that shorts were only for the home, the beach, sports (including pool), and Songkran - again I have always followed this. I have never had a problem with Thais, generally or with officials, due to how I dress. In fact I receive praise for understanding Thai culture in this respect, even though I often consider my dress style to be too casual or to be a "scruff", Thais state I dress politely always.

As someone quoted earlier "the nail that stands out will be hammered down" - in respect to my appearance I have always tried to avoid that particular problem, unlike the "mobs" of latterday hippies that appeared all over Chiangmai earlier this week, and which, according to guest house owners and tour operators I know, abandoned Pai as soon as the shootings became public knowledge. Whenever some of them walked past me I started itching and scratching - it may have been personal prejudice and/or psychosomatic, but that's how they made me feel - imagine how they make the Thais feel.

Gaz

[Prakanong]

After reading this thread with interest, I would like to add a few comments. One can easily spot from the replies in this thread the people that may have been to Thailand on holiday, to those people that have been living in this country for some time. The 'holiday' posters are viewing this 'act' with their western values, nothing wrong in that at all, however many Thai's have no interest or understanding of western values. No matter how angry it will make people, the facts in this case will be what the Thai Police say they will be, why let the truth get in the way of an incident that the Thai's will want to brush under the carpet as soon as possible. Some posters have asked the question of what was the motive or reasoning behind the off duty Police Officer approaching the couple in the first instance. Those of you that have lived here for some time will understand what I am about to say, others will find this difficult to understand. Most Thai's do not make a decision based on reason or the facts presented before them, they will make a decision based on their feelings, this is why the Police Officer will not admit any guilt or that he had done any wrong, because how could his feelings be wrong! Many Thai's will only ever feel 'shame' when they have been seen to lose 'face' amongst their peers, they will never feel guilt or admit any responsibility, due to the fact that they carried out the act based on their feelings, and again, how can your feelings be wrong? I do not condone what happened, I am just trying to explain to some posters that the difference in western and Thai culture is so very deep, that unless you are Thai, no matter how many years you live here, you will never truly understand the Thai mindset. With that said, and hoping that I have not caused any ill feeling to any reader, the out come of this case, as always, will be a positive result for the Police Officer, and anger, and none understanding to every one else.

It took 799 posts to get it right. I agree with the crux of what you're saying. Because it's so hard to understand the Thai way of thinking (at times) I tend to only associate with a few Thai friends of high morals and my falang friends. I avoid the Thai police when possible. Imagine making friends with a Thai cop and one day he asks for a favor. What if it's something you don't want to do.......how would you feel.......what would you think......would you say no?

This is a case of a small man with a gun who was embarrassed; in his mind at the time the only thing to do was retaliate and restore face.

Your post made me think a little about this. d have some very good Thai frioends and some great coleagues too of which I hope some of them are friends too.

Thing is they are all women - I do not have any Thai men I would call friends. Acquaintenences I might discuss football with or something daft from my own country but thats it - and only in passing I have never arranged to meet up with one to have a meal or go out.

One Thai guy I first met in 95 or 96 and while i might have a couple of drinks with him when I see him i have never arranged to meet him and always excuse myself after a couple of drinks.

The obligation issue you make with regard to policeman I also think it applies to other Thai men but not to the girls I know - strange!

[grantbkk]

One thing that could shed light on the truth is a truth detection brain scan of the victim. Brain imaging lie detector tests have come a long way since they were first developed. Though still not perfect their interpretaion greatly increases the odds someone is lying or telling the truth depending on the results. Attorneys in the US hate this technology which if perfected would likely be admissible in US courts though only if the person agrees to take the test. Perhaps when she returns home some enterprising news organization will offer to pay for one. It could reveal a lot. If the cop is guilty it would certainly make a coverup smell in the eyes of the rest of the world. If not the matter would be laid to rest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4051211.stm

I have to agree. I saw some new technology on the latest rendition of the Wild Wild West where you can get the last thing a dead persons sees but the image is going to be upside down. Seriously, the woman is never going to take a lie detector test of any kind. I'm quite sure that in five minutes the posters here could come up with the cheese to get in done. It would solve almost everything and this site would be no more. I think we can all agree that she will be out of the country soon and yet another story will surface.

[LoveDaBlues]

After reading this thread with interest, I would like to add a few comments. One can easily spot from the replies in this thread the people that may have been to Thailand on holiday, to those people that have been living in this country for some time. The 'holiday' posters are viewing this 'act' with their western values, nothing wrong in that at all, however many Thai's have no interest or understanding of western values. No matter how angry it will make people, the facts in this case will be what the Thai Police say they will be, why let the truth get in the way of an incident that the Thai's will want to brush under the carpet as soon as possible. Some posters have asked the question of what was the motive or reasoning behind the off duty Police Officer approaching the couple in the first instance. Those of you that have lived here for some time will understand what I am about to say, others will find this difficult to understand. Most Thai's do not make a decision based on reason or the facts presented before them, they will make a decision based on their feelings, this is why the Police Officer will not admit any guilt or that he had done any wrong, because how could his feelings be wrong! Many Thai's will only ever feel 'shame' when they have been seen to lose 'face' amongst their peers, they will never feel guilt or admit any responsibility, due to the fact that they carried out the act based on their feelings, and again, how can your feelings be wrong? I do not condone what happened, I am just trying to explain to some posters that the difference in western and Thai culture is so very deep, that unless you are Thai, no matter how many years you live here, you will never truly understand the Thai mindset. With that said, and hoping that I have not caused any ill feeling to any reader, the out come of this case, as always, will be a positive result for the Police Officer, and anger, and none understanding to every one else.

It took 799 posts to get it right. I agree with the crux of what you're saying. Because it's so hard to understand the Thai way of thinking (at times) I tend to only associate with a few Thai friends of high morals and my falang friends. I avoid the Thai police when possible. Imagine making friends with a Thai cop and one day he asks for a favor. What if it's something you don't want to do.......how would you feel.......what would you think......would you say no?

This is a case of a small man with a gun who was embarrassed; in his mind at the time the only thing to do was retaliate and restore face.

Your post made me think a little about this. d have some very good Thai frioends and some great coleagues too of which I hope some of them are friends too.

Thing is they are all women - I do not have any Thai men I would call friends. Acquaintenences I might discuss football with or something daft from my own country but thats it - and only in passing I have never arranged to meet up with one to have a meal or go out.

One Thai guy I first met in 95 or 96 and while i might have a couple of drinks with him when I see him i have never arranged to meet him and always excuse myself after a couple of drinks.

The obligation issue you make with regard to policeman I also think it applies to other Thai men but not to the girls I know - strange!

I have spent almost ZERO TIME drinking with/around Thai men. I've heard of too many problems with drunken Thai men; I try to distance myself from problems. Seems to work; no problems so far. Once I see a Thai guy has had too much hooch and getting even a bit out of hand I quietly find another place to drink; it's not like there's only 1 bar in Thailand lol. Besides, I can't tolerate someone who can't handle their booze.

Drunken cop (or anyone) with a gun = bad outcome.

[Arkady]

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

LOL oh man that is "rich." Amazing Thailand.

Am I right in thinking she would have to remain in the Kingdom until her case comes up if she is sued by the Police?

If charged with assaulting a policeman, she could be kept on remand without bail. The police usually argue there is a high risk of a foreigner absconding. Best case would be bail and forfeiture of passport which is most likely as even Canada might cut up rough, if their citizen was jailed for being a victim of attempted murder.

[DamianMavis]

So answer this question: Was almost being killed and having been severely wounded, and the other falang was killed, not punishment enough? That you would be happy they would add jail time or some other punishment seems outrageous.

Also, there is no proof she is lying yet, not to mention the fact that the encounters she had previously in her words hardly seem like she was out looking for trouble, more like trying to defend her boyfriend.... it was still stupid but its not like shes out picking fights with people. There are far worse falangs in Thailand than her, and lots of them.

Damian

Damian,

Do you always answere a question with a question? Nice diversionary tactic!

I'll not engage in a debate with you. I have my opinion and you have yours. On this matter never the twain shall meet.

Sorry I honestly didnt think it was a real question. The answer is obvious like another poster said recently. Someone DIED and the other was almos killed too..... over what you think of as undesirable behaviour, that is why I defend her, I defend her right to be annoying without fear of death. I keep trying to ask you if the death penalty is a suitable punishment for that but you wont answer.

Damian