Trouble On The Dancefloor At Spasso

[Journalist]

I've checked with my friend. And the Thai he had his altercation with was the small pony-tailed man that Arkady describes.

He said to me that after the barge-through, the tap on the shoulder, there was a brief verbal squabble between them before the bodyguard grabbed him from behind.

I hear what everyone is saying about 'turning the other cheek' - but when one is in a disco, (not in your study at the keyboard), and you and your partner are being bulldozed by some twot, its very hard to think rationally and ignore small stuff like that.

[mikethevigoman]

I don't recall seeing the phrase 'blood on the dancefloor' anywhere in the OP. Was the title changed?

May I assume that I may call a poster a 'goon' and an 'idiot' with impunity or without censure?

Yes, the original title was "Blood on the dance floor" and no, you may not call a poster a goon or an idiot...

Can we think it ?

[RusticCharm]

Prakanong, at RCA a luk kreung model tried to befriend Chalerm by talking about a football match. Chalerm didn't feel very friendly and later came to the guy's table and slapped his head a few times.

Chalerm has suddenly gone up in my estimation.

[Prakanong]

I've checked with my friend. And the Thai he had his altercation with was the small pony-tailed man that Arkady describes.

He said to me that after the barge-through, the tap on the shoulder, there was a brief verbal squabble between them before the bodyguard grabbed him from behind.

I hear what everyone is saying about 'turning the other cheek' - but when one is in a disco, (not in your study at the keyboard), and you and your partner are being bulldozed by some twot, its very hard to think rationally and ignore small stuff like that.

I find this amusing given your posts about the Pai shooting.

It seems even at your keyboard you do not think rationally and your values differ when it is a friend of yuor involved

[villagefarang]

You just can't equate Thai Nightlife with normal Thai culture. Nightlife the world over has its own rules and Thailand is no different.

Spasso was an old haunt both when I was single and after I got married. The wife and I would have dinner after a good workout in the health club upstairs. As the dinner hour waned and the music started the transformation from upscale restaurant to meat market was in full flow.

There are always a few regulars and some have bodyguards. It doesn't matter what you think of the guy with the pony tail. He is a regular and he is Thai and he spends a lot of money in that club. If you are new and don't know who is who in the nightlife you had best keep your mouth shut, smile and avoid conflict.

As the one guy pointed out he could be one of Chalerm's boys or worse.

[Journalist]

^^ Fair enough Prakanong,

...but there's a difference between starting a rumpus with a short fat pillock with a ponytail in a disco, and one with a policeman who has stuck the barrel of his revolver in your mouth.

One chooses a point at which one draws a line. You can't always be a push-over and have to stand your ground sometimes.

Arkady says there is a false sense of security in the posh hotel bars, and he could be very right there.

[Prakanong]

^^ Fair enough Prakanong,

...but there's a difference between starting a rumpus with a short fat pillock with a ponytail in a disco, and one with a policeman who has stuck the barrel of his revolver in your mouth.

One chooses a point at which one draws a line. You can't always be a push-over and have to stand your ground sometimes.

Arkady says there is a false sense of security in the posh hotel bars, and he could be very right there.

The short fat pillock at the disco could well shove the barrel of a pistol in your mouth as well.

Then again in Pai the pistol in the mouth was after the ruckus has started was it not - the same could have happened to your pal on the dance floor.

Yes - I think Arkady might have it right in that some people have a false sense of security at a posh hotel nightclub rather than an upcountry Thai disco for example.

I used to go to Spasso a lot when I lived in Thailand but have only been once since 1999 and that was in December 2006 while staying at the Hyatt on business - I have never noticed any gangster types but did meet quite a few foreign policeman there once. They were from places like Saudi, PI, Indo, Malay etc and had been on some course organised by Thai police.

I forgoet what it was not but it might have been anti-corruption or forensic methods - it was something I found very amusing given the record of the RTP in the area the conference was in.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Prakanong

[Journalist]

^So if anyone challenges you or shoves you in Thailand, you automatically wilt? Just in case the other party is carrying a firearm?

The Pai situation (cop brandishing a weapon) and Spasso situation (ostensibly a solo ill-mannered unarmed jerk) are different.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Journalist

[howtoescape]

I see everyones point that it is better to avoid situations where you can get involved in a ruck with Thai males and to turn the other cheek. However to me it seems that Farangs in these kind of situations have turned the cheek for so long now that Thai males can be as rude and obnoxious as they want, and they will not get any comeuppance as they would if they took such liberties in the west.

With regards to manners, in the touristic parts of this country many Thais are as rude a race as you are ever likely to find and we arent just talking about those naughty bar girlies.

[Prakanong]

^So if anyone challenges you or shoves you in Thailand, you automatically wilt? Just in case the other party is carrying a firearm?

The Pai situation (cop brandishing a weapon) and Spasso situation (ostensibly a solo ill-mannered unarmed jerk) are different.

No you just do not wilt - depends on the situation but I am more careful in Thailand than I am where i live in singapore for instance.

As for the Pai and Spasso situation they are not that different. What if the goon instead of strangling your pal had pulled out a gun. What if you pal had reacted unconciously without thinking and made a grab, made a sudden move by just flinching even and was shot?

[Journalist]

^^ I agree too.

In a way all of us here are right.

My wife often tells me not to get into a squabble with Thai and stop making a fuss when out. The ones without pistols have some other weapons (eg knives, scythes, pitchforks)

But phew, always taking it up the tailpipe is an endurance test.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Journalist

[Prakanong]

^^ I agree too.

In a way all of us here are right.

My wife often tells me not to get into a squabble with Thai and stop making a fuss when out. The ones without pistols have some other weapons (eg knives, scythes, pitchforks)

But phew, always taking it up the tailpipe is an endurance test.

I know - sometimes I just can not keep it in verbally but try to be careful..

They are not all psychopathic murderous looney's and some are shit scared if you go off one one verbally.

Even here in Singapore the Thai's are meek and mild except for some of them pissed as farts on a Sunday at Golden Mile.

[howtoescape]

As for the Pai and Spasso situation they are not that different. What if the goon instead of strangling your pal had pulled out a gun. What if you pal had reacted unconciously without thinking and made a grab, made a sudden move by just flinching even and was shot?

What if the Farang was one of the many crazy pyschos over here and pulled a gun out on the Thai and shot him, would the Thai have deserved it.

The facts on here showing that Thai's can get away with murder highlights that it is still a banana republic, until they can sort this one out then it will always remain a basket case country.

[A_Traveller]

Spasso was and as far as I know is, a freelancers pick-up joint, with all the associated class. I was invited by a Thai female friend one evening, many moons ago, and there was a group sat as described looking for all the world like an outing from manic depressives R us. Oddly enough a dodgy suited fool thought that the falang + Thai 'girl' was dancing too close and given this combination were suitable for him to flex his musculature to clear space around them. The look on the ponytailed ones face when he realised who the Thai 'girl' was, as MasterCard states priceless, and the subsequent effusive apologies and bottle of vintage champagne were welcome.

There's always a bigger fish......

If memory servers this was around Conrad's opening, so maybe a move was deemed politic.

Regards

[Prakanong]

As for the Pai and Spasso situation they are not that different. What if the goon instead of strangling your pal had pulled out a gun. What if you pal had reacted unconciously without thinking and made a grab, made a sudden move by just flinching even and was shot?

What if the Farang was one of the many crazy pyschos over here and pulled a gun out on the Thai and shot him, would the Thai have deserved it.

The facts on here showing that Thai's can get away with murder highlights that it is still a banana republic, until they can sort this one out then it will always remain a basket case country.

Of course the Thai would not have deserved it either.

You should read the thread and try and comprehend the point I was making re Journalist's posts on the Pai thread and how he views the action of his friend and Leo from Canada differently.

Its really not that difficult a concept for you to grasp if you try.

My views on Thailand and certain aspects of it being a basket case are well documented by the way - I do not think or hope I ever had rose tinted spectacles since first visiting, living and working there and now visiting very regularly on business and for pleasure.

[Journalist]

^You raise a good point. It didn't occur to me in the Pai topic that the murdered boy also had a false sense of security. Pai is supposed to be a easy-come-easy go sort of place. Inconsistency noted.

Anyway, this topic is about scraps in other ....posher places.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Journalist

[mikethevigoman]

As for the Pai and Spasso situation they are not that different. What if the goon instead of strangling your pal had pulled out a gun. What if you pal had reacted unconciously without thinking and made a grab, made a sudden move by just flinching even and was shot?

What if the Farang was one of the many crazy pyschos over here and pulled a gun out on the Thai and shot him, would the Thai have deserved it.

The facts on here showing that Thai's can get away with murder highlights that it is still a banana republic, until they can sort this one out then it will always remain a basket case country.

This is EXACTLY why we should walk from trouble over here,we are not thai, we have no rights and are not usually armed, if you are and you want to take a chance ,up to you, however, the chances are wherever you are, you will be outnumbered and you WILL lose,.anger and principles from farang will get you into awful trouble,and as we have seen killed,as a rule we dont have "the killer instinct " other races do ..I came to thailand with a temper,now i dont have one,i was the only one that suffered if i had a tantrum,( or my poor wife if i was with her ) ignore it and move on, most of us have families that want us around a bit longer,.take no chances, unless you are in a life or death situation, ignore and move on ,

[howtoescape]

The look on the ponytailed ones face when he realised who the Thai 'girl' was.

There's always a bigger fish......

Regards

I unfortunately have to go drinking with some of the so called mafia of a new EU country and my view is they are just pussy bullies who need to get their friends to do the fighting for them, one on one the majority are f all.

Anyone who gets friends to fight there battles is a fool.

[mikethevigoman]

Here's my take on this sort of thing: Most Thais are non-confrontational, and therefore usually polite. There is a minority of Thais who take advantage of this attitude are are pushy, rude and aggresive. Because the majority don't like to make a fuss about things the pushy minority get away with it.

The thing is that most farang can have a push and a shove and leave it as that , especially where drink is involved,,with a thai ,they dont and will go after the throat,be careful.

[mikethevigoman]

A guy walks between your friend and a local pro, and he gives a guy shove? He's lucky he didn't get the snot knocked out of him. The Thai guy was rude, and your friend sounds just as bad.

My advice is IF you want to have a fight with a thai, be prepared to go all the way, as he will,.best not to id say eh,. ,.

[backflip]

I wonder what the OP's male friend's female friend (got that?) thought after the guy gasped for air, cried for help, and pleaded for mercy:

1. The farang is a real man.

2. The farang is a real jerk.

3. I hope the farang still wants to pay me for sex.

Most Thais are polite and, to assume all Thais are rude because of the actions of one person, is wrong. Perhaps, based on the actions of the OP's male friend, Thais can assume that all middle-aged farang men are rude, stupid, and confrontational.

[Journalist]

^Ha Ha....great question. You mean after his face turned purple and he involuntarily soiled himself !

He only weighs 66 kilos, so fighting is not really his forte.

Can Farangs hire bodyguards too? In those situations my buddy and Mr Pony-Tail could have stepped outside and watched their bodyguards fighting each other on their behalf.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Journalist

[Arkady]

I still don't know who the pony tail creep is but some one ought to send this thread to the Grand Hyatt's global head of PR to show them what a wonderful job their guys in Bangkok are doing to develop the brand image. I am not sure if GH is part of another group or stand alone.

[villagefarang]

I still don't know who the pony tail creep is but some one ought to send this thread to the Grand Hyatt's global head of PR to show them what a wonderful job their guys in Bangkok are doing to develop the brand image. I am not sure if GH is part of another group or stand alone.

That is absolutely silly. The guy is a regular and thus gets treated differently.

Some hotheaded farang who has watched too many action movies is only going to get himself hurt thinking the rest of the world lives by his rules.

From experience, regulars are treated differently. Greeted by name, every effort made to give us our favorite table. Even the GM would make a point of dropping by the table for a visit. Hotel management doesn't care about the one off visitor, especially one with an obvious chip on his shoulder and whining that the world is not equal or fair.

Those guys who stand up in a strong wind usually get blown down.

[Journalist]

'Those guys who stand up in a strong wind usually get blown down.'

Who said that, Nelson Mandela? Winston Churchill? George Washington?

I'm getting a strong message here, that to live in Thailand, as a foreign man, you have to to become a limp lettuce, check in your nuts at immigration. Back down on every confrontation....and basically, there's no trench in which you can fight.

Thats a difficult paradigm for a man to accept. No wonder farangs sometimes get frustrated with having to act out like that..

Edited January 14, 2008 by Journalist

[legag]

(sigh)

SAD. What has happened or you OP had witness, like other posters here have already commented - it happens EVERYWHERE in this world.

I've heard so many complains about living here and if that makes you uphappy why you're still here?!?

Accept things around and we all live happily after.

[LoveDaBlues]

'Those guys who stand up in a strong wind usually get blown down.'

Who said that, Nelson Mandela? Winston Churchill? George Washington?

I'm getting a strong message here, that to live in Thailand, as a foreign man, you have to to become a limp lettuce, check in your nuts at immigration. Back down on every confrontation....and basically, there's no trench in which you can fight.

Thats a difficult paradigm for a man to accept. No wonder farangs sometimes get frustrated with having to act out like that..

You can fight when your life or a friend's life is in imminent danger. Unless a blow has been struck smile and walk away. No need to check your nuts at immigration but checking your ego there would help.

[CarlBkk]

Spasso was and as far as I know is, a freelancers pick-up joint, with all the associated class. I was invited by a Thai female friend one evening, many moons ago, and there was a group sat as described looking for all the world like an outing from manic depressives R us. Oddly enough a dodgy suited fool thought that the falang + Thai 'girl' was dancing too close and given this combination were suitable for him to flex his musculature to clear space around them. The look on the ponytailed ones face when he realised who the Thai 'girl' was, as MasterCard states priceless, and the subsequent effusive apologies and bottle of vintage champagne were welcome.

There's always a bigger fish......

If memory servers this was around Conrad's opening, so maybe a move was deemed politic.

Regards

So who was the girl then? Don't leave us in suspense.

The ugly ponytailed guy and his guards and guests will only bully if they think they have the upper hand. If there is a larger group of tough-looking farangs dancing too close I very much doubt the guards will do anything (in fact I've seen such). Farangs often don't respect these types or know who they are, hence sometimes there are altercations. How many times has a farang been knifed in a hotel club or posh venue? Chalerm and his contacts never seeked revenge on the group at RCA or Qbar. The mafia types on Ratchada just wai each other and schmooze for show and face.

It's a good thing that farangs don't wilt if a local pushes them around or abuses their wife. Being an easy target won't help the cause now or in the future. However, as visitors we need to know limits and keep things in perspective. Being a drunken hard man and standing up to a rowdy table of young guys in an open-air beer bar is asking for trouble and you will likely get a harsh beating, not killed.

As for 87, the chap in question lost interest when the freelancers took over. No doubt some other hotel club with a live band where the Thai managers will ensure his fearsome reputation stays intact will be where he is now. Yellow ferrari outside (right outside) guarantees he's there. Some farangs know him, so some people on this forum may be able to give an account of this guys history.

[meemiathai]

^^ Fair enough Prakanong,

...but there's a difference between starting a rumpus with a short fat pillock with a ponytail in a disco, and one with a policeman who has stuck the barrel of his revolver in your mouth.

One chooses a point at which one draws a line. You can't always be a push-over and have to stand your ground sometimes.

Arkady says there is a false sense of security in the posh hotel bars, and he could be very right there.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter even if it was only a dwarf or whatever. You are not familiar with the place, you have to act nice and pretentiously smile at anyone. The word is swallow. The actions of your friend had made himself swallowed something bigger than he originally had to.

[meemiathai]

Spasso was and as far as I know is, a freelancers pick-up joint, with all the associated class. I was invited by a Thai female friend one evening, many moons ago, and there was a group sat as described looking for all the world like an outing from manic depressives R us. Oddly enough a dodgy suited fool thought that the falang + Thai 'girl' was dancing too close and given this combination were suitable for him to flex his musculature to clear space around them. The look on the ponytailed ones face when he realised who the Thai 'girl' was, as MasterCard states priceless, and the subsequent effusive apologies and bottle of vintage champagne were welcome.

There's always a bigger fish......

If memory servers this was around Conrad's opening, so maybe a move was deemed politic.

Regards

And the girl was?

I have seen plenty of these situations.