Self Teaching Methods?

[kolohe]

I would like some recommendations for self teaching methods/programs. I have considered getting Rosetta Stone but I'm not sure if this is the best for me or not. I am very much at the beginner level. I know a few basic phrases and have a vocabulary that is all over the map (airplane, hospital, traffic, walk, drink, eat, shower, brush teeth, bird, boy/girl, etc)

Self teaching is not my preferred method but it's what I am stuck with for the moment. I plan to supplement it with some short courses during my future visits to Thailand (which I will start a separate thread for).

I know everyone learns differently but if you have any input on Rosetta Stone or others, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks,

-k

[sutnyod]

Hm. Not a SYSTEM really.... but I learned Thai script from road signs and the language from the people. The only drawback: I cannot write as I don't know the rules, so I drop in here frequently to learn from others. It's a slow but sure method. I now also think and dream in Thai.

[everydaysthesame]

I've done a couple of different self teaching book's/CD's and the best I tried was Teach Yourself Thai (from the Teach Yourself series) Cd's and a book. It tackles reading and writing earlyon which my other course didn't (Colloquial Thai - published by Routledge).

My advice would be to not shy away from learning the alphabet - it's much easier then it looks. Once you have your head round the alphabet it really helps with pronouciation plus when you are in Thailand there is learning material everywhere. Just look at road signs, packaging etc etc..

To learn in the alphabet I can recommend buying some Thai kids alphabet books. You trace over the letters to learn to write and it really helped me remember the letters as there are pictures to help. Eg Gor Gai (pic of chicken) Kor Kai (pic of egg) .

As I originally learnt in UK the one thing I was really bad at when I got here was listening and understanding. That can only come from talking to as many Thai people as you can.

good luck ;-)

[withnail]

My advice here: any one method that you see advertised or recommended is only one method and no one method has ever, in my opinion, taught someone an entire language. I taught myself a lot before going to a school and studying their more advanced levels. What worked for me was basically buying every book, course and program I could get my hands on.

I have done all of the above, including Rosetta Stone which is ok, but no one method here is going to teach you Thai.

[a man with a plan]

I agree. You have to combine every method you can. I picked up thai really quickly, and everyone always seems to be so amzed and says I must be so 'talented' - which always kind of annoys me, because what they don't know is how much effort I put in, and I believe that if anyone was to replicate the effort, they'd get the same results. I went through all the books I could find (no one has mentioned the linguaphone one, which I really liked - and is by far the best for teaching reading and writing. I found music that I liked, learned a few songs, watched thai movies with english subtitles so I could hear them speak and see how it translated; and then i did it the other way round, watched english films and read the thai subtitles. I tried to speak with as many thai people as I could - and ONLY in thai. I would carry a dictionary and a notebook along with the book I was studying... hel_l, I even listened to the conversation tapes from the books in my sleep.

Sounds mental, but in less than a year thais wouldn't even realize I was a farang when I phoned them.

[a man with a plan]

Oh yeah, two other things. Make friends with a thai who speaks really good english and get a girlfriend who doesn't speak any english.

[sutnyod]

Oh yeah, two other things. Make friends with a thai who speaks really good english and get a girlfriend who doesn't speak any english.

But that doesn't work for women! Once you got to a level where you cease uttering cute stuff those guys are very upset and don't want you to learn the language!

So the native friends are the safer bet for us.

[garro]

I stopped using text books quite a while back.

They could only get me so far.

For me the important thing was focusing on subjects that I was interested in and using audio and written material from that area.

In my case that was Buddhism and there is tons of stuff available.

My wife has joked that this has meant that I can sometimes sound a bit monkish

I also like Thai music and watch a lot of Thai television.

I can sometimes be a bit of a loner, but I try and force myself to converse as much as possible with the local villagers.

The important for me has been active listening.

For me learning Thai has not been easy, and I still have way to go, but it has been rewarding.

[siamesekitty]

Reading helps a lot. For those of you who can read some Thai but are too ขี้เกียจ (kheekiad=lazy) to pick up a proper book, try some comics. There are just a few words in each little bubble, making it a bit easier to digest. Helps you with recognizing handwritten words too.

Dedication to learning, and exposure to lots of material is important! I'm having trouble learning my third language (Spanish) because of the lack of reading/listening materials in Thailand. I need easy reading material to learn, and haven't been able to find such books here

[Khon Baan Nok]

My advice here: any one method that you see advertised or recommended is only one method and no one method has ever, in my opinion, taught someone an entire language. I taught myself a lot before going to a school and studying their more advanced levels. What worked for me was basically buying every book, course and program I could get my hands on.

I have done all of the above, including Rosetta Stone which is ok, but no one method here is going to teach you Thai.

I am in complete agreement with Withnail on this, though my agreement is not worth much, since after two years of "self-instruction" my proficiency is a chaotic hodge-podge that includes the ability to read and write, knowledge of some very arcane and astounding--to Thai people--vocabulary, fairly precise pronunciation as long as I "stay in my groove", and an astonishing inability to participate in, for more than about 30 seconds, a standard Thai conversation. It's discouraging...

That said, one addition to Withnail's suggestion: start using the little black Moleskin notebooks and start writing down, in Thai, ever sign you see, every phrase you hear, every word you don't understand. I'm almost into my 4th notebook of this type, and find that even when I'm not able to remember every word, I can remember when I heard it, and can trace back through the books to the reference.

[mangkorn]

Ditto. Read everything, write everything. I learned to read almost entirely from street signs, commercial signs, bills for termite eradications, every kind of sign that's out there. And if you spend time out on the streets, always have a good portable dictionary with you. One sure sign of a good student is if his/her portable dictionary is in tatters. A dictionary in perfect condition is a tragic thing - unless it's been recently purchased to replace the one that fell apart...

[Sateev]

I would like some recommendations for self teaching methods/programs. I have considered getting Rosetta Stone but I'm not sure if this is the best for me or not. I am very much at the beginner level. I know a few basic phrases and have a vocabulary that is all over the map (airplane, hospital, traffic, walk, drink, eat, shower, brush teeth, bird, boy/girl, etc)

Self teaching is not my preferred method but it's what I am stuck with for the moment. I plan to supplement it with some short courses during my future visits to Thailand (which I will start a separate thread for).

I know everyone learns differently but if you have any input on Rosetta Stone or others, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks,

-k

In the early stage, before you can recognize/reproduce the tones, self-teaching is 100% useless. You will create problems it will take years to overcome. Feedback from a qualified teacher is required to get you over that initial phase.

Listening is key, and after you begin to hear the tones, which can be a LONG time for some, and relatively fast for others, Rosetta Stone is a good, if somewhat boring and tedious method. I have NEVER been able to get the microphone feedback system to work well, and my girlfriend, who is Thai, can not get it to 'approve' her speech, either.

It is really best for learning correct syntax, and building vocabulary. It is mainly an organized system for listening, and reading. If you can imitate the sounds, without anyone correcting you, you are indeed gifted, and the rest should be easy. We mortals need qualified, attentive Thai TEACHERS to get us over the hump.

Without immersion, Thai is a VERY difficult language to learn. Hearing it spoken day-after-day is one of the best methods of increasing your fluency, IF it is spoken correctly. Hanging around Bangkok, so much dialect and slang is in use, that you will have a hard time moving forward, unless you 'hang around' an educational institution or other more formal setting. Street Thai takes a long time to sink in...

Sateev

[ElZorro]

I need easy reading material to learn, and haven't been able to find such books here

But... there is always the internet!

- About Spanish is a good way to start.

- Check this for more easy short stories in Spanish that you can shake a stick at (the links are at the bottom of the page, in the section named "Enlaces externos").

- For listening and Speaking, there is nothing like a native speaker friend, but you can find quite a few podcasts for learners of almost any language, and there are hundreds of radio stations from around the world that have an internet stream. I would suggest you get this free Screamer Radio program that let's you save the streams to mp3 and comes with a huge database of stations from around the world.

I could go on and on, but I hope that's enough for a start.

[kolohe]

Lots of good suggestions and ideas. Thank you and keep them coming!

I used to be one of the people who wanted to learn to speak first. Speaking seemed to be the most important skill. The alphabet, with so many characters (some of them quite similar looking) and rules (classes, tones, etc) seemed insurmountable. I figured focusing on one thing would be easiest and the quickest way to be able to start communicating.

After reading a bunch of threads and the replies to my two threads, I have been convinced that my previous approach was lacking. I think that putting in the extra time in the beginning to learn the alphabet will help to accelerate my learning faster later on down the road than if I had not learned the alphabet. Still, I'm a little anxious about wrapping my head around the classes and rules.

I am currently doing the workbook method of learning the alphabet. I have some books and found some websites that help with the alphabet. One site has an e-book for sale that seems to have a pretty good method for learning the starting/ending sounds, class, etc. The only thing about this e-book method is it seems you don't learn the alphabet (gaw gai, kaw kai, etc). I have only used the limited trial version so I don't know if it deals with this later or not. I am considering adding this book to my studies a little later on.

I don't want to violate any forum policies so I wont post the link. If you have any feedback about this e-book, I'd like to hear it. If you want the link, PM me. I have no connection or interest in the product.

[garro]

I would like some recommendations for self teaching methods/programs. I have considered getting Rosetta Stone but I'm not sure if this is the best for me or not. I am very much at the beginner level. I know a few basic phrases and have a vocabulary that is all over the map (airplane, hospital, traffic, walk, drink, eat, shower, brush teeth, bird, boy/girl, etc)

Self teaching is not my preferred method but it's what I am stuck with for the moment. I plan to supplement it with some short courses during my future visits to Thailand (which I will start a separate thread for).

I know everyone learns differently but if you have any input on Rosetta Stone or others, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks,

-k

In the early stage, before you can recognize/reproduce the tones, self-teaching is 100% useless. You will create problems it will take years to overcome. Feedback from a qualified teacher is required to get you over that initial phase.

Listening is key, and after you begin to hear the tones, which can be a LONG time for some, and relatively fast for others, Rosetta Stone is a good, if somewhat boring and tedious method. I have NEVER been able to get the microphone feedback system to work well, and my girlfriend, who is Thai, can not get it to 'approve' her speech, either.

It is really best for learning correct syntax, and building vocabulary. It is mainly an organized system for listening, and reading. If you can imitate the sounds, without anyone correcting you, you are indeed gifted, and the rest should be easy. We mortals need qualified, attentive Thai TEACHERS to get us over the hump.

Without immersion, Thai is a VERY difficult language to learn. Hearing it spoken day-after-day is one of the best methods of increasing your fluency, IF it is spoken correctly. Hanging around Bangkok, so much dialect and slang is in use, that you will have a hard time moving forward, unless you 'hang around' an educational institution or other more formal setting. Street Thai takes a long time to sink in...

Sateev

Self-teaching, at any stage, is not 100% useless. I have managed to reach a fairly high standard of Thai without any lessons.

Calling methods, just because they don't work for you, useless is a bit narrow-minded in my view. I personally found the Rossetta Stone method to be a bit basic. when I tried it a few years back, but it may work for somebody else.

[raro]

if speaking is your main objective, try the Pimsleur method (google is your friend... )

I'm learning Japanese with it at the moment and advance faster than expected.

I agree with other posters that reading/writing Thai is the key to success because it opens the eyes for the subtle differences not only in the tones but also the vowels.

[meadish_sweetball]

In the early stage, before you can recognize/reproduce the tones, self-teaching is 100% useless. You will create problems it will take years to overcome. Feedback from a qualified teacher is required to get you over that initial phase.

Self-teaching, at any stage, is not 100% useless. I have managed to reach a fairly high standard of Thai without any lessons.

Calling methods, just because they don't work for you, useless is a bit narrow-minded in my view. I personally found the Rossetta Stone method to be a bit basic. when I tried it a few years back, but it may work for somebody else.

I don't deal in black and whites myself and wouldn't use as strong words as 100% useless - but I still think Sateev's general point is well worth taking on board for somebody who is starting out - that if one doesn't have a native Thai speaker around to listen and correct (preferable an experienced teacher too as it can be a bit much to expect one's partner or friend to act a teacher all the time), it's more likely that one ends up cementing pronunciation mistakes that could be worked away from the start with a systematic approach led by a good teacher.

That's not to say it's impossible to do it differently, or to correct such mistakes at a later time - but it takes more effort. Obviously some people are talented or aware enough to be able to hear and correct themselves from the start, but they will be in the minority.

The most effective approach when learning something is to get it right from the start, because it is more difficult to adjust already established brain patterns than to form completely new ones. There is ample research to support this.

My guitar practice has shown me very clearly that this is true as well.

Almost everyone wants to play everything they learn at the original speed, or faster. This encourages a sloppy and inexact technique and once one has played something sloppily 20-30 times, there is a firmly ingrained brain pattern for that passage, which makes it very hard to go back and relearn it at a slower speed with more attention to proper technique.

[kolohe]

In the early stage, before you can recognize/reproduce the tones, self-teaching is 100% useless. You will create problems it will take years to overcome. Feedback from a qualified teacher is required to get you over that initial phase.

Self-teaching, at any stage, is not 100% useless. I have managed to reach a fairly high standard of Thai without any lessons.

Calling methods, just because they don't work for you, useless is a bit narrow-minded in my view. I personally found the Rossetta Stone method to be a bit basic. when I tried it a few years back, but it may work for somebody else.

I don't deal in black and whites myself and wouldn't use as strong words as 100% useless - but I still think Sateev's general point is well worth taking on board for somebody who is starting out - that if one doesn't have a native Thai speaker around to listen and correct (preferable an experienced teacher too as it can be a bit much to expect one's partner or friend to act a teacher all the time), it's more likely that one ends up cementing pronunciation mistakes that could be worked away from the start with a systematic approach led by a good teacher.

That's not to say it's impossible to do it differently, or to correct such mistakes at a later time - but it takes more effort. Obviously some people are talented or aware enough to be able to hear and correct themselves from the start, but they will be in the minority.

The most effective approach when learning something is to get it right from the start, because it is more difficult to adjust already established brain patterns than to form completely new ones. There is ample research to support this.

My guitar practice has shown me very clearly that this is true as well.

Almost everyone wants to play everything they learn at the original speed, or faster. This encourages a sloppy and inexact technique and once one has played something sloppily 20-30 times, there is a firmly ingrained brain pattern for that passage, which makes it very hard to go back and relearn it at a slower speed with more attention to proper technique.

Agreed. What you are talking about is the Law of Primacy. A student remembers what they learned first longer than information that they have to relearn. Unlearning bad information is more difficult than learning correctly in the first place.

While its not 100% useless, if one is not careful they could be creating more work for themselves down the road.

Edited January 28, 2008 by kolohe

[garro]

In the early stage, before you can recognize/reproduce the tones, self-teaching is 100% useless. You will create problems it will take years to overcome. Feedback from a qualified teacher is required to get you over that initial phase.

Self-teaching, at any stage, is not 100% useless. I have managed to reach a fairly high standard of Thai without any lessons.

Calling methods, just because they don't work for you, useless is a bit narrow-minded in my view. I personally found the Rossetta Stone method to be a bit basic. when I tried it a few years back, but it may work for somebody else.

I don't deal in black and whites myself and wouldn't use as strong words as 100% useless - but I still think Sateev's general point is well worth taking on board for somebody who is starting out - that if one doesn't have a native Thai speaker around to listen and correct (preferable an experienced teacher too as it can be a bit much to expect one's partner or friend to act a teacher all the time), it's more likely that one ends up cementing pronunciation mistakes that could be worked away from the start with a systematic approach led by a good teacher.

That's not to say it's impossible to do it differently, or to correct such mistakes at a later time - but it takes more effort. Obviously some people are talented or aware enough to be able to hear and correct themselves from the start, but they will be in the minority.

The most effective approach when learning something is to get it right from the start, because it is more difficult to adjust already established brain patterns than to form completely new ones. There is ample research to support this.

My guitar practice has shown me very clearly that this is true as well.

Almost everyone wants to play everything they learn at the original speed, or faster. This encourages a sloppy and inexact technique and once one has played something sloppily 20-30 times, there is a firmly ingrained brain pattern for that passage, which makes it very hard to go back and relearn it at a slower speed with more attention to proper technique.

Agreed. What you are talking about is the Law of Primacy. A student remembers what they learned first longer than information that they have to relearn. Unlearning bad information is more difficult than learning correctly in the first place.

While its not 100% useless, if one is not careful they could be creating more work for themselves down the road.

I think that the operative word is 'could'.

In the same way that the wrong teacher could cause more work for the pupil down the road.

I am self-taught, and while I am always aware that there is room for improvement, I am satisfied with the progress made using this method.

I concentrated on learning the tones and reading from the beginning. I can now manage most written material in Thai, at least get the gist of what is being said, and can often intuitively recognize the tone of a new word without needing to think about the tone rules. While I would not claim to to speak like a native yet. I am able to have long conversations with people in my village on a range of issues and be understood. So to say that the self-teaching method is useless seems a bit much to me.

Edited January 28, 2008 by garro

[raro]

My guitar practice has shown me very clearly that this is true as well.

Almost everyone wants to play everything they learn at the original speed, or faster. This encourages a sloppy and inexact technique and once one has played something sloppily 20-30 times, there is a firmly ingrained brain pattern for that passage, which makes it very hard to go back and relearn it at a slower speed with more attention to proper technique.

...sounds like your way of playing guitar is pretty similar to mine...

[siamesekitty]

I need easy reading material to learn, and haven't been able to find such books here

But... there is always the internet!

- About Spanish is a good way to start.

- Check this for more easy short stories in Spanish that you can shake a stick at (the links are at the bottom of the page, in the section named "Enlaces externos").

- For listening and Speaking, there is nothing like a native speaker friend, but you can find quite a few podcasts for learners of almost any language, and there are hundreds of radio stations from around the world that have an internet stream. I would suggest you get this free Screamer Radio program that let's you save the streams to mp3 and comes with a huge database of stations from around the world.

I could go on and on, but I hope that's enough for a start.

Thank you ElZorro! That Screamer Radio thing is absolutely fantastic, I managed to find some Mexican radio stations to listen to, and the mp3 saving function is very very handy!

I've tried searching the Internet for online stories before, but it seems all my clicks end up at either dead ends, or expensive downloading sites (which I don't really trust). What I'd like is either a small elementary school storybook, or a downloadable pdf/word doc that I can print out and jot down stuff on.

Muchas gracias to all who have sent PMs as well, I really appreciate it and am touched by your readiness to help!

Edited January 30, 2008 by siamesekitty