Thai Girlfriend - Illegal Immigrant

[jimbobted]

I am really looking for some advice regarding what seems to be a very difficult situation. Basically my Thai girlfriend is an illegal immigrant in Thailand. She ended up in her current situation through no choice of her own and the problem is really ruining her life! Here is a brief synopsis of her situation: Her father was Thai (now deceased), her mother is Vietnamese. She was born in Vietnam where she lived for 10 years with her parents and siblings. Due to a family crisis back in Thailand, her father sneaked her back into Thailand with the rest of her family. Her father died some two years later. They have been living in Thailand as Thais, although illegal immigrants I guess, with her father's extended family for ten years now. They have pretty much denounced their Vietnamese background e.g. my girlfriend speaks fluent Thai but would now struggle to string a single sentence together in Vietnamese. She suffers from a lack of official papers - let's just say it appears her parents weren't incredibly forward thinking! Her parents met in Vietnam - I'm not sure if there are any official marriage papers at all - if they exist they are Vietnamese. I am not even sure if her birth was officially registered in Vietnam, and if it was, I'm not sure if her mother has a copy of her birth certificate.

I met her on a four-month stay in Thailand and have been seeing her for another 2 years through extended holidays to Thailand. She is incredibly loving and sweet and I would really love to give it a go at settling down with her. Her dream is to have a loving husband, a house and babies - not too different from a lot of girls! I'm certain that she wants this with me but I've been keeping her in limbo for two years now and the situation is becoming critical now. I have British and Australian citizenship. I am not rich but I am a well qualified professional and can easily find well paid work in either of these countries. The simple advice appears for me to go live in Thailand. The problem is that I couldn't really pursue my career to any significant level in Thailand and I feel I am too young to effectively give up my career for a relationship, unless I really have to! I would really love for my girlfriend to stay with me in Australia or England (preferably Oz). We don't know how to go about this and she is becoming incredibly upset and sad. Does anyone know of any potential options that we could pursue? I would happily consider a Thai or Australian marriage if this helped. If I could get her out of the country she would also need the freedom to go back to Thailand to see her family. Any plan would also mean not dropping the rest of her family in the sh*t with the authorities! Her mother trusts me but she is still a little cagey when discussing the situation. Her mother's English is also not fantastic and my Thai extremely basic - which doesn't help, but I believe she wants her daughter to be happy and will try, without risking the rest of her family, to support our plans. I would love to find a 100% legitimate solution to the problem and am willing to jump through hoops and throw money at the problem if necessary. I feel strongly that my girlfriend should have the civil rights to some freedom of travel and should have the right to some form of legitimate citizenship on this earth! However, if this cannot be achieved, I would consider higher risk, less legitimate methods of obtaining papers – I'm not sure such practices can be discussed in detail on this forum. I would appreciate any suggestions on how to proceed or who I could talk to for advice. I would also be extremely grateful to hear from anybody who has managed to overcome this type of problem before.

[Forkinhades]

seems like she dosnt exsist anywhere, so I think you are totally screwed, I would suggest that she smuggled back to Vietnam, and try to get official papers there.

Interesting to see replies though, good luck

[MART]

a touching story... Why don't you just ask a Thai lawyer for advice first? It is a weird situation but I sense that it's not that seldom and there might well be some precedent.

[LaoPo]

...so....

her mother is Vietnamese...

your gf left for Thailand when she was 10...

but she doesn't speak Vietnamese (anymore)....

but is fluent in Thai...

so....what do Mom and daughter speak with each other ?

Vietthai or Thaiviet...?

Hmmmm...

And, she went to a Thai school at 10 without any papers ?

Hmmmm...

LaoPo

[jimbobted]

...so....

her mother is Vietnamese...

your gf left for Thailand when she was 10...

but she doesn't speak Vietnamese (anymore)....

but is fluent in Thai...

so....what do Mom and daughter speak with each other ?

Vietthai or Thaiviet...?

Hmmmm...

And, she went to a Thai school at 10 without any papers ?

Hmmmm...

LaoPo

Her mother had a Thai husband for at least 15 years. I believe the family spoke Thai to each other when in Vietnam. They have also been in Thailand for over 10 years. All her direct family including her siblings speak fluent Thai. Her extended family on her father's side are all Thai. Regarding schooling, I believe I could go to a Thai school without papers if I paid the required fees! I don't think you actually need papers to go to a Thai school anyway. I have seen her younger siblings come home from school in their school uniforms - I don't think they have papers. Anyway, I am not sure of the relevancy of this. I can't see what advantage she could gain from fabricating an extremely elaborate lie, involving all her family members, involving not doing lots of things she wants to do, veining fear of certain situations and some other Oscar winning performances - for absolutely no personal gain whatsoever. If you are implying she simply doesn't want to leave her country to stay with me, then trust me, she would tell me if this is the case. Even if she didn't want to settle down with me, it is quite an elaborate lie to concoct to get out of going on an all expenses paid holiday for a month if she did have a passport! I understand there are hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants in Thailand from the bordering countries. I was hoping someone else may have had experience of meeting a girl in a similar situation and had successfully found a solution to the problem. Any constuctive advice or recommendations for emigration consultants or solicitors in Bangkok would all be appreciated. Thanks.

[the scouser]

If her father was Thai, then your girlfriend will be Thai, too. You need to get her birth certificate from Vietnam showing her father's name and nationality, and the father's death certificate, then apply for a Thai passport for her. That's it in a nutshell.

Scouse.

[Briggsy]

I hope for your sake the dead Thai father is not the long-used cover story for an absent Vietnamese father. If so, you can probably forget Thai nationality in her lifetime. If not, your difficulty will lie with the amphoe/khet (local district office) issuing an ID card for her. Get this and everything will follow.

This wouldn't be Sakon Nakhorn or Nakhorn Phanom, would it? If so, there is a sizeable ethnic Vietnamese population there, some of whom have successfully gained Thai citizenship under the patronage of Chavalit Yongchaiyudh. They may be able to help your girlfriend.

[Mahout Angrit]

If not, your difficulty will lie with the amphoe/khet (local district office) issuing an ID card for her. Get this and everything will follow.

If she is over 16 has she got a Thai ID card because it's almost impossible for Thai to function in Thailand without

Do any of her sisters have a Thai ID card or a Thai birth certificate?

If the mother is Vietnamese then she will still speak the language so take her to the Vietnamese embassy to explain her situation and apply for a Vietnamese passport with their help. Once she has the passport she will be able to travel to Vietnam, if necessary, to sort out copies of the birth certificates for her child/children. Once she has the birth certificate for her children she can apply for Vietnamese passports for them.

If her Thai father is named on the certificate (and you must prepare yourself that he may not be as if he was in Vietnam he could have been in there illegally) then she can also get a Thai passport.

One thing is sure if you put this to the mother and she doesn't want to get involved then it could be that the facts don't match the story as the previous poster suggests.

You should also understand if she gets a Vietnamese passport and no Thai passport, no Thai ID card then if she leaves the country she will re-enter on return as a tourist and be subject to immigration control.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Mahout Angrit

[MyFriend You]

Mahout You are not screwed - go tp this link - http://visa-vietnam.org/infomation/apply-v....html?Itemid=39 Your gf is considered a Viet Kieu under the new law basically the Vietnamese Govt has granted Identity Reclamation rights and a five year multiple and entry visa's for Vietnam - she will have to leave country, the Viet consulate in Bangkok will issue her a Vietnamese passport and issue her an ASEAN exit paper, go to the Thai embassy in HCMC and get a Thai visa ............... everone has a "friend" and mine works in the oil business, he did the same thing for his Viet GF............good luck

[MyFriend You]

I am really looking for some advice regarding what seems to be a very difficult situation. Basically my Thai girlfriend is an illegal immigrant in Thailand. She ended up in her current situation through no choice of her own and the problem is really ruining her life! Here is a brief synopsis of her situation: Her father was Thai (now deceased), her mother is Vietnamese. She was born in Vietnam where she lived for 10 years with her parents and siblings. Due to a family crisis back in Thailand, her father sneaked her back into Thailand with the rest of her family. Her father died some two years later. They have been living in Thailand as Thais, although illegal immigrants I guess, with her father's extended family for ten years now. They have pretty much denounced their Vietnamese background e.g. my girlfriend speaks fluent Thai but would now struggle to string a single sentence together in Vietnamese. She suffers from a lack of official papers - let's just say it appears her parents weren't incredibly forward thinking! Her parents met in Vietnam - I'm not sure if there are any official marriage papers at all - if they exist they are Vietnamese. I am not even sure if her birth was officially registered in Vietnam, and if it was, I'm not sure if her mother has a copy of her birth certificate.

I met her on a four-month stay in Thailand and have been seeing her for another 2 years through extended holidays to Thailand. She is incredibly loving and sweet and I would really love to give it a go at settling down with her. Her dream is to have a loving husband, a house and babies - not too different from a lot of girls! I'm certain that she wants this with me but I've been keeping her in limbo for two years now and the situation is becoming critical now. I have British and Australian citizenship. I am not rich but I am a well qualified professional and can easily find well paid work in either of these countries. The simple advice appears for me to go live in Thailand. The problem is that I couldn't really pursue my career to any significant level in Thailand and I feel I am too young to effectively give up my career for a relationship, unless I really have to! I would really love for my girlfriend to stay with me in Australia or England (preferably Oz). We don't know how to go about this and she is becoming incredibly upset and sad. Does anyone know of any potential options that we could pursue? I would happily consider a Thai or Australian marriage if this helped. If I could get her out of the country she would also need the freedom to go back to Thailand to see her family. Any plan would also mean not dropping the rest of her family in the sh*t with the authorities! Her mother trusts me but she is still a little cagey when discussing the situation. Her mother's English is also not fantastic and my Thai extremely basic - which doesn't help, but I believe she wants her daughter to be happy and will try, without risking the rest of her family, to support our plans. I would love to find a 100% legitimate solution to the problem and am willing to jump through hoops and throw money at the problem if necessary. I feel strongly that my girlfriend should have the civil rights to some freedom of travel and should have the right to some form of legitimate citizenship on this earth! However, if this cannot be achieved, I would consider higher risk, less legitimate methods of obtaining papers – I'm not sure such practices can be discussed in detail on this forum. I would appreciate any suggestions on how to proceed or who I could talk to for advice. I would also be extremely grateful to hear from anybody who has managed to overcome this type of problem before.

Hmmmmmmm reading your second paragraph, it sounds like the family is giving her direction - The test my friend is, is she willing to go to the Vietnamese embassy in Bangkok and reclaim her Viet citizenship

not at all a hard thing to do, it would be easier to be Viet now than a Thai and as another poster said, how did they enter Thailand???, boat people of the eighties got Thai citizenship after a few years residency in a refugee camp - have her gather all her family papers (beleive me, Vietnamese keep everything, unless there were none to begin with, my wifes birth certificate was a piece of scrap paper with her mom & dad's name, her new name and a date) that was enough to satisfy the Vietnamese consulate in Phnom Penh to issue her a passport. Denounced their Vietnamese citizenship??? to do that, they would have had to go to the Viet Embassy and officially denounce their citizenship in writing, thn what?? They would have had to become Thai in some way shape or form.........you could also hire a Thai Private Investigator to check it out...............good luck

[Keithangel]

I am really looking for some advice regarding what seems to be a very difficult situation. Basically my Thai girlfriend is an illegal immigrant in Thailand. She ended up in her current situation through no choice of her own and the problem is really ruining her life! Here is a brief synopsis of her situation: Her father was Thai (now deceased), her mother is Vietnamese. She was born in Vietnam where she lived for 10 years with her parents and siblings. Due to a family crisis back in Thailand, her father sneaked her back into Thailand with the rest of her family. Her father died some two years later. They have been living in Thailand as Thais, although illegal immigrants I guess, with her father's extended family for ten years now. They have pretty much denounced their Vietnamese background e.g. my girlfriend speaks fluent Thai but would now struggle to string a single sentence together in Vietnamese. She suffers from a lack of official papers - let's just say it appears her parents weren't incredibly forward thinking! Her parents met in Vietnam - I'm not sure if there are any official marriage papers at all - if they exist they are Vietnamese. I am not even sure if her birth was officially registered in Vietnam, and if it was, I'm not sure if her mother has a copy of her birth certificate.

I met her on a four-month stay in Thailand and have been seeing her for another 2 years through extended holidays to Thailand. She is incredibly loving and sweet and I would really love to give it a go at settling down with her. Her dream is to have a loving husband, a house and babies - not too different from a lot of girls! I'm certain that she wants this with me but I've been keeping her in limbo for two years now and the situation is becoming critical now. I have British and Australian citizenship. I am not rich but I am a well qualified professional and can easily find well paid work in either of these countries. The simple advice appears for me to go live in Thailand. The problem is that I couldn't really pursue my career to any significant level in Thailand and I feel I am too young to effectively give up my career for a relationship, unless I really have to! I would really love for my girlfriend to stay with me in Australia or England (preferably Oz). We don't know how to go about this and she is becoming incredibly upset and sad. Does anyone know of any potential options that we could pursue? I would happily consider a Thai or Australian marriage if this helped. If I could get her out of the country she would also need the freedom to go back to Thailand to see her family. Any plan would also mean not dropping the rest of her family in the sh*t with the authorities! Her mother trusts me but she is still a little cagey when discussing the situation. Her mother's English is also not fantastic and my Thai extremely basic - which doesn't help, but I believe she wants her daughter to be happy and will try, without risking the rest of her family, to support our plans. I would love to find a 100% legitimate solution to the problem and am willing to jump through hoops and throw money at the problem if necessary. I feel strongly that my girlfriend should have the civil rights to some freedom of travel and should have the right to some form of legitimate citizenship on this earth! However, if this cannot be achieved, I would consider higher risk, less legitimate methods of obtaining papers – I'm not sure such practices can be discussed in detail on this forum. I would appreciate any suggestions on how to proceed or who I could talk to for advice. I would also be extremely grateful to hear from anybody who has managed to overcome this type of problem before.

I think the practical answers can be extracted fairly easily from the combined responses but there is one other possibility, knowing a bit about Thai culture which is that she may be willing to have the partnership family etc with you but only in Thailand and that this is then clearly a face saver when you must have said you want to be with her and pursue your career outside the kingdom, You say you have left her in limbo land for two years but don't say how? It may be that you are being presented with a make or break "situation" because of her and her families unstated conditions

[jimbobted]

Thanks for all the constructive comments. I think there are definitely a few possibilities to consider. My girlfriend's father was definitely Thai. I've met his brothers and sisters, cousins, nieces etc. - it's a big family! I understand he was a fairly skilled tradesman - he went to Vietnam legitimately to work I believe. He was quite a bit older than my girlfriend's mother and I guess the rest of his family just followed his lead. I understand he had to come back to Thailand in a hurry and brought the family back "quietly" over the border. I'm not even sure if there were particularly good diplomatic relations between Thailand and Vietnam at the time so doing it legitimately might have taken some time. I think part of the problem for his widow and children is the way they have dealt with the issue. They have dealt with it the best they can - they have fit in perfectly well in Thailand and are totally accepted as part of the family - but they have brushed the issue of citizenship well under the carpet. This has also meant that they aren't really aware of their rights. Some good news though - I've asked my girlfriend about her Vietnamese papers and she has said that she and her sisters all have official Vietnamese birth certificates with their fathers name on. I think this is a really good start for getting a Thai passport. I will certainly be really interested to have a look at this on my next visit and will hopefully be able to have a definite plan. I think her mother's rights are much less clear-cut and I'll have to manage this situation carefully. I think part of the cloudiness over the situation from my perspective is the issue of trust and I'll have to do my best to manage this. There is always the Vietnamese citizenship option for my girlfriend but I think that is fraught with risks and is a last resort. Anyway, it looks like there might be a way forward, and if I tread carefully we will hopefully get a positive outcome. Thanks for the assistance.

[madjbs]

Sounds like a very positive start, if the Thai father is named on the papers then you shouldn't have a problem.

[Mahout Angrit]

With a Thai father named on her Vietnamese birth certificate (translate the certificate officially to Thai) and documents to prove her father was Thai then it should be straightforward to get her a Thai passport. She inherits her Thai citizenship from her father, her mother's status becomes immaterial. She will more than likely need to get the ID card first from the local Amphur and get her name on a House registration certificate somewhere.

[solodennis]

I think number one is to get either Thai or Viet citizenship papers.... gotta start somewhere. I am married to a Chinese-Filipina. She was brought to the US as a Filipino citizen on a tourist visa but in reality she was a domestic, nanny. Six months later she was an illegal. How we met was accidental and fate but she had her birth certificate and her expired visa/passport. As a US citizen we were married legally in Florida and all they wanted was her birth certificate and mine. Once married we filed paperwork for her residency (Green Card)... it was long and expensive but as long as we were willing to jump throught the hoop and write the checks, it all came to fruition.

Once she has her citizenship all the rest will fall into place then you can apply for the appropriate visa for Britain or Austrailia. She may have to make some hard choices in regards to her family, however that may the only solution.

Good luck

[dr_Pat_Pong]

With a Thai father named on her Vietnamese birth certificate (translate the certificate officially to Thai) and documents to prove her father was Thai then it should be straightforward to get her a Thai passport. She inherits her Thai citizenship from her father, her mother's status becomes immaterial. She will more than likely need to get the ID card first from the local Amphur and get her name on a House registration certificate somewhere.

Well put. I reckon that is the way to go.

[Arkady]

Certainly she is entitled to Thai citizenship, if she can prove that her father really was Thai. I think the Thai authorities will be skeptical in addition to their natural prejudice against Vietnamese living here. She will need more than a translation of the Vietnamese birth certificate to prove her entitlement. They are likely to want copies of her father's birth cert, ID card, house registration papers, passports (to prove he was in Vietnam at the time) and death cert. If she doesn't have these, which sounds likely to be the case, she will have to try get copies of from the issuing authorities, or at least confirmation that they were ever issued. They may also ask for testimony from his relatives that he was in Vietnam. If the story is true, he probably had a parallel family in Thailand at the time, which might make the relatives less than helpful. Basically think what questions you would ask, if you were in the shoes of the government official receiving an application that you thought was suspicious.

I think you should also prepare yourself for the possibility that her father was not Thai at all. I don't know how old your gf is but, if she is much under 38, it is hard to imagine a skilled Thai tradesman going to work (most likely illegally) in Vietnam around the time she was born. There was a small contingent of Thai military in VN up until about 1970 or 1972 who must have employed a tiny number of civilian Thais. But in the 70s and 80s economic conditions in Vietnam were absolutely dire. Things have only really picked up there in the last few years but even today wages are much less than in Thailand. Anyway Vietnam has plenty of skilled tradesmen of its own which it exports to Cambodia and Laos. I think it is much more likely that the Thai father is a mythical figure who has been created to convince snooping neighbours that they are all Thai citizens and perhaps the children actually believe it. If I am right, Vietnamese citizenship would be the only way to go but it would not provide any permanent right to stay in Thailand, although Viets can now come for two weeks without a visa, and the whole family might be deported if the Thai authorities found out.

When you talk about under the counter options I think these are limited. Illegal immigrants have certainly been issued ID cards for a couple of hundred thousand baht by corrupt district office officials but, as they become more computerized, I think the owners of these documents are at risk when they apply for passports, ID renewals and other documents. The Interior Ministry, the ultimate gate keeper of Thai nationality, guards it jealously and is not open to bribery on this issue, as you can see from other TV threads on the subject of applying for Thai nationality. There are avenues for Indochinese refugees to apply for nationality but it is tough. Hilltribe people who were actually born in Thailand and have no other nationality have a hard enough time getting it.

BTW Thai government schools accept refugee and hilltribe children without Thai nationality up to Por 6 only. They don't accept them at the mathayom level (aged 11-12 and up). There are many sad cases of such children having to end their education at this age. They also cannot work in Thailand unless they register as temporary aliens and then they are restricted to manual jobs, or domestic service, but they need foreign ID cards to do this. They can go to private secondary schools however. If you gf and her siblings have attended state secondary schools, they must have fake ID cards.

Apologies if this sounds harsh but it doesn't sound like an easy case and I think you still need to do a lot of digging to get to the bottom of it.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Arkady

[backflip]

Just because it's important to YOU, it doesn't mean that it's important to HER. If it's important to her to resolve this situation, she can. Get out of the way.

[Nicko]

Whatever you do mate... where there is a will there is a way!!!

I would listen to the scouse... find the right peolpe to get the good advice.

I wish you luck.

[picaro]

I am really looking for some advice regarding what seems to be a very difficult situation. Basically my Thai girlfriend is an illegal immigrant in Thailand. She ended up in her current situation through no choice of her own and the problem is really ruining her life! Here is a brief synopsis of her situation: Her father was Thai (now deceased), her mother is Vietnamese. She was born in Vietnam where she lived for 10 years with her parents and siblings. Due to a family crisis back in Thailand, her father sneaked her back into Thailand with the rest of her family. Her father died some two years later. They have been living in Thailand as Thais, although illegal immigrants I guess, with her father's extended family for ten years now. They have pretty much denounced their Vietnamese background e.g. my girlfriend speaks fluent Thai but would now struggle to string a single sentence together in Vietnamese. She suffers from a lack of official papers - let's just say it appears her parents weren't incredibly forward thinking! Her parents met in Vietnam - I'm not sure if there are any official marriage papers at all - if they exist they are Vietnamese. I am not even sure if her birth was officially registered in Vietnam, and if it was, I'm not sure if her mother has a copy of her birth certificate.

I met her on a four-month stay in Thailand and have been seeing her for another 2 years through extended holidays to Thailand. She is incredibly loving and sweet and I would really love to give it a go at settling down with her. Her dream is to have a loving husband, a house and babies - not too different from a lot of girls! I'm certain that she wants this with me but I've been keeping her in limbo for two years now and the situation is becoming critical now. I have British and Australian citizenship. I am not rich but I am a well qualified professional and can easily find well paid work in either of these countries. The simple advice appears for me to go live in Thailand. The problem is that I couldn't really pursue my career to any significant level in Thailand and I feel I am too young to effectively give up my career for a relationship, unless I really have to! I would really love for my girlfriend to stay with me in Australia or England (preferably Oz). We don't know how to go about this and she is becoming incredibly upset and sad. Does anyone know of any potential options that we could pursue? I would happily consider a Thai or Australian marriage if this helped. If I could get her out of the country she would also need the freedom to go back to Thailand to see her family. Any plan would also mean not dropping the rest of her family in the sh*t with the authorities! Her mother trusts me but she is still a little cagey when discussing the situation. Her mother's English is also not fantastic and my Thai extremely basic - which doesn't help, but I believe she wants her daughter to be happy and will try, without risking the rest of her family, to support our plans. I would love to find a 100% legitimate solution to the problem and am willing to jump through hoops and throw money at the problem if necessary. I feel strongly that my girlfriend should have the civil rights to some freedom of travel and should have the right to some form of legitimate citizenship on this earth! However, if this cannot be achieved, I would consider higher risk, less legitimate methods of obtaining papers – I'm not sure such practices can be discussed in detail on this forum. I would appreciate any suggestions on how to proceed or who I could talk to for advice. I would also be extremely grateful to hear from anybody who has managed to overcome this type of problem before.

My girlfriend was given away at the hospital in bkk the day she was born. Her mother did not register the birth and neither did anyone else. She was raised by several families and was able to get the six year education in satahip without an identity card. Her last guardian died when she was fifteen and made her way alone till I met her at twenty. I was amaised that she could get away twenty years with no card. She told me that all her life when the police came this way she went that way. She was offered a card many times for about three hundred thousand but I told her getting caught with a counterfit card would be worse than having no card. I got the name of an honest thai lawyer from a board member and went to see him. He was totaly amaised by her story but said that we could get the ball rolling. We had to find her mother and father who were never married only to find out she has a sister, next was to convince them to come to bkk for blood samples at the police laboratory. I'm sure you all know how you must get a thai to do something for you, the father and sister were not much of a problem but the mother had $$ for eyes, never pass up an opportunity to fleece a falang. I paid for everybody's transportation accomodation and food to and while in bkk except the mother, she required a cash donation and a new cell phone but we did get the job done. The job took a year and a half and thirty eight thousand to the lawyer who was worth every baht. I don't remember how much the rest was but she did get the card. It's now six years later and still in love with the same girl and couldn't be happier. The best advice I could give you is to find an honest lawyer and take his advice. Maybe getting her registered in vietnam and from there to australia might be the answer. I wish you the best of luck but I think that a phony card will come back to bite you.

regards p.