Eucalyptus Best Thing Since Sliced Bread!

[fruity]

Have a look at www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews

The PM 'backs' Eucalyptus plantations

Throws everything I've ever read on the subject right out the window!

[scotbeve]

Have a look at www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews

The PM 'backs' Eucalyptus plantations

Throws everything I've ever read on the subject right out the window!

Fruity,

Oh joy!!! Now we can have eucalyptus gum-flavored rice!!! AND turn Thailand into a desert... Imagine us folk in Chiang Mai could now be sitting on future beach front property though someone would have to sell / rent dune buggies to get to the water...

[johnh101]

I was always under the impression that Eucalyptus was not welcomed as it sucks dry ground water and over time makes otherwise arable land useless. Please correct me if I am wrong.

But it grows quick, so somebody makes a fast buck.

[chownah]

I've heard these rumors about problems being caused from the trees depleting the groundwater....but....I've not seen anything that really documents the problem....I even went out and searched the internet and it was difficult to find any conclusive data on this.

If the actual effect of growing Eucalyptus was as bad as the rumors make it out to be I would think that there would be lots of information available.....but as far as I can tell there isn't....so.....what is the deal?.....why aren't there lots of information about actual problems available.

I'm open to learning more about this rumor and even accepting it as fact if I could actually find some facts that support it.....until I see some facts and have a chance to think about them and what they mean I'll remain sceptical I guess.

Chownah

[ozzydom]

Eucalypts grow into very large trees and just like the 20 pot a day beer drinker they have a big thirst, commensurate with their size.BUT do they have a bigger thirst than any other large tree/plant like say a teak,I doubt it.

A forestry scientist I once worked with tried to explain to me the workings of a large tree and if I recall correctly, it was along the lines that = a large tree is like a super efficient pump (like with a suction head of maybe 100 feet and a delivery head of 300 feet)

The tree sucks up water during the day to its foliage where it is used in an evaporative process for cooling, then at night it reverses flow and the moisture goes downward and in the process draws in air through its foliage,along with the pollutants within,the pollutants and carbon are stored in the soil and next day the tree pumps out pure water vapor.

So clean out, dirty in ,and that is why forests and grass lands are so important for our environment.

A couple of examples of this action at work could be related to rubber sap ,it runs downwards mainly at night.

If you have lived in a cool climate and cut off a tree root during a cool day ,water will pour out of the cut root,try it on a hot day ,nothing! the tree is still sucking moisture upwards.

ozzy

[Beardog]

Doesn't eucalyptus have a problem with the root system?

In Hawaii they were falling over in high rains & the news was saying they had a shallow root system & they started cutting them down in Maui shortly after finding the bad news out as it was tearing down power lines. The trees were huge so I guess even as quick as they grow they must have been pretty old.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Beardog

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Had 6 acres in Australia and had over 100 mature Coastal Grey Eucalyptus on the property. We also had a dam or as some would call it a large pond about 1 acre. The trees were over 30 years old and they said that they would suck up over 100 gallons each per day. May have but our dam_n never went dry and we pumped out of it to irrigate the property. Might add that this was during a very serious drought.

My point is I think it would take a heck of a dense planting of large trees to really cause serious water problems. Although I'm not sure what they are good for unless it is eucalyptus oil and that takes a special tree.

Gum trees are also bad about dropping limbs unexpectedly. It does not have to be windy either a large change in humidity will cause them to split and drop off when there is no wind at all. On the bright side they are easy to care for. With the exception of cleaning up the limbs that have dropped they don't require any care. Never had one fall over.

I should think teak would be more practical. Eucalyptus is not very good for the soil.

[ozzydom]

Doesn't eucalyptus have a problem with the root system?

In Hawaii they were falling over in high rains & the news was saying they had a shallow root system & they started cutting them down in Maui shortly after finding the bad news out as it was tearing down power lines. The trees were huge so I guess even as quick as they grow they must have been pretty old.

I suppose it depends on the soil type they were located in,waterlogged soil is not the most stable of platforms for any tree.The usual problem is getting them to come down,in their native country (OZ) there are many eucalyptus forests in the cyclone areas and you see many downers but few of them are euca,s.

I have seen them more than a metre diameter at the butt twisted off like a match stick in tornado,s but the butt and roots are still firmly in place.

I think there might be more to the story than what you say ,because eucalypts grow into forest giants so nobody in their right mind would plant them near power lines, if you did that in Oz the Electric Utility would snuff them out as soon as they saw them.

Perhaps they learnt the folly of their ways and were just getting rid of a problem they created in the first place.

The local councils on the Gold Coast did a similar thing, they planted thousands of Leopard trees which are only a smallish tree that has a really pretty flower in the Spring ,but they grow roots that go on forever ,it wasnt long before said roots were cracking the kerbs and lifting drive-ways, so they had to remove them.

Willows were another problem,planted anywhere near sewage or stormwater pipes turned into an expensive catastrophe.

[ozzydom]

There are over 700 species of eucalyptus that have evolved over millions of years , most of the species are area or climate specific .

From the little desert mallee through the alpine ghost gums ,the river red gums to the stringy bark and the giant mountain ash and all the species in between have evolved characteristics to survive the conditions they are found in and to put the wrong species in the wrong place is asking for problems.

There is a place for everything and everything in its place.

[Crushdepth]

I was always under the impression that Eucalyptus was not welcomed as it sucks dry ground water and over time makes otherwise arable land useless. Please correct me if I am wrong.

This is a myth. Many species of Eucalypts are adapted to dry climates and can survive with very little water and grow well in poor quality soils (but as someone said, there are a lot of different species).

[fruity]

The Bkk Post article sure contradicted everything I've ever read on the subject, especially so when it states that Euc actually improves the soil???? The new PM & his experts must surely know:)

[plachon]

I've heard these rumors about problems being caused from the trees depleting the groundwater....but....I've not seen anything that really documents the problem....I even went out and searched the internet and it was difficult to find any conclusive data on this.

If the actual effect of growing Eucalyptus was as bad as the rumors make it out to be I would think that there would be lots of information available.....but as far as I can tell there isn't....so.....what is the deal?.....why aren't there lots of information about actual problems available.

I'm open to learning more about this rumor and even accepting it as fact if I could actually find some facts that support it.....until I see some facts and have a chance to think about them and what they mean I'll remain sceptical I guess.

Chownah

Most "scientific" research has been conducted by the very people who are promoting eucalyptus plantations. Thus they are not interested in doing research into environmental impacts and what they do conduct is likely to be biased or bad news suppressed. That's the way it works round here. You should not be surprised Chownah, although I predict you will be true to form.

However, there is a wealth of empirical data and observations from around the region by NGO's and individuals (including myself) of eucalyptus plantations playing havoc with the environment and villager's livelihoods. I suggest you start by Googling "World Rainforest Movement and Eucalyptus" or downloading past copies of Watershed, a publication from the Thai-based NGO TERRA, which has expressly covered pulpwood plantations destructive spread in the Mekong region. Better still, get your ass over to Isaan or Eastern Seaboard and engage your senses around a eucalyptus plantation and note the telltale signs around of ecological malaise. e.g. low plant and animal biodiversity; lack of fungi; increased erosion; few birds; dry streams and lakes nearby; low crop productivity in adjacent fields; etc. It doesn't take Einstein to work out what is going on.

The fact that there seem to be few "scientific" studies, documenting this process reflects more on the priorities of the Thai scientific establishment than it does on the lack of empirical evidence out there. God knows I've tried to encourage enough people to study eucalyptus ecological impacts over the years to little success. They like doing safe and sound, non-controversial studies where possible and eucalyptus seems to scare Thai "scientists" away, because of its "hot" reputation.

Anyway try these for starters:

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/7813/euca_1.htm

http://www.cifor.cgiar.org/Publications/Detail?pid=605

http://www.fern.org/pubs/media/plantarpr.htm

http://www.sinkswatch.org/plants.html

You also could do worse than getting hold of a copy of Larry Lohmann's "Pulping the South".

By the way, nearly all the eucalyptus planted in Thailand is of a single species - E.camaludensis - and much of that is likely to be from very narrow number of strains. GM eucalyptus is currently being promoted by the pulp companies who profit from the ecological and social destruction wrought across the region.

Edited February 22, 2008 by plachon

[Beardog]

Doesn't eucalyptus have a problem with the root system?

In Hawaii they were falling over in high rains & the news was saying they had a shallow root system & they started cutting them down in Maui shortly after finding the bad news out as it was tearing down power lines. The trees were huge so I guess even as quick as they grow they must have been pretty old.

I suppose it depends on the soil type they were located in,waterlogged soil is not the most stable of platforms for any tree.The usual problem is getting them to come down,in their native country (OZ) there are many eucalyptus forests in the cyclone areas and you see many downers but few of them are euca,s.

I have seen them more than a metre diameter at the butt twisted off like a match stick in tornado,s but the butt and roots are still firmly in place.

I think there might be more to the story than what you say ,because eucalypts grow into forest giants so nobody in their right mind would plant them near power lines, if you did that in Oz the Electric Utility would snuff them out as soon as they saw them.

Perhaps they learnt the folly of their ways and were just getting rid of a problem they created in the first place.

The local councils on the Gold Coast did a similar thing, they planted thousands of Leopard trees which are only a smallish tree that has a really pretty flower in the Spring ,but they grow roots that go on forever ,it wasnt long before said roots were cracking the kerbs and lifting drive-ways, so they had to remove them.

Willows were another problem,planted anywhere near sewage or stormwater pipes turned into an expensive catastrophe.

Ozzy thanks that must be the reason why they were removing them. It happened in 1996 in Sonoma Ca. & Napa county as well, both were under a heavy heavy water year, as well in Maui. And they both were close to the edge of the road & all had issues with the electric company. They probably had some topple & removed the rest as a precaution.Now that I remember it

in California there were all types of trees falling over from the flooding.Guerneville river went over the rim & flooded the city that year. Thanks for the info.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Beardog

[ozzydom]

plachon, I would not describe any of the sites you mention as containing much in the way of scientifically proven fact,most of it is rhetoric put out by anti logging,anti nuclear, anti establishment, save the forests,save the wetlands etc etc type organisations and individuals.

Now I dont have a problem with them or their philosophies as they provide a balance in our society and have done memorable deeds in the past ,eg the greens and the save the Franklin campaign. The problem I do have is their one-eyed nature of only looking at one side of the coin.

There are factual studies carried out by many eminent scientists which show that the introduction of eucalyptus has benefited indigenous populations around the world and has improved the environment,by assisting to reclaim barren lands. China and Ethiopia spring to mind.

It is a very emotive issue with a pro for every con in a debate that will probably go on forever .In a world of diminishing resources and increasing population ,changes to agricultural practices must occur .

In my view soil degradation is not about what you grow or remove but what you put back in.

Our lands are like a bank account, keep withdrawing without depositing and you end up broke.

[ozzydom]

For people contemplating planting eucalyptus on marginal or already degraded land deemed unsuitable for food crops (which is where I feel euca,s should be planted).

To maximise returns ,why not intercrop with two crops of cassava followed by a legume crop to be ploughed in to improve structure and fertility.

After year three I feel the shade factor would make inter-cropping a bit iffy,but in a say five year tree cycle, the addition of the cassava crops to the bottom line in a period of all cost no income would be attractive.

The addition of the fertilizer for the cassava as well as the tilling would also be beneficial to the euca,s,along with the legume crop and quite possibly lead to soil improvement from its original state.

[budmak]

My Wife and I live in the Sa keo region and we grow Eycha on quite a large scale the land we use is not arable land we have paid for the ex scrub land to be cleared and leveled plowed and irigated the trees we use reach maturaty in 4 years and are harvested we give employment to thai folks who plant and look after the trees we feed the trees natral fertilizer and prune them to get a good return PLUS the ammount of carbon they take out of the air is documented such is the fact that people in Europe and The Us pay us to offset their carbon foot print and when the trees that they purchased after taking out the cost for buying mantanence etc most donate there profit to Charity WWF etc we allow to land to remain fallow for one year after harvesting so as not to over use it

[ozzydom]

Budmak, I drive through your area about six times a year going and coming to Hat Lek and often stop and look at the euca plantations around there.

They are a credit to their growers,well planned and maintained,even the more remote ones that have no sign of available water are doing well.

ozzy

[Dave the Dude]

But whats the best thing BEFORE there was sliced bread, thats what I want to know ?

Dave

Edited February 22, 2008 by Dave the Dude

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Trees that do well in wet soil are malalucca tree or tea tree. Also know is paperbark. Genus Leptosperma.They have tea tree plantations in Australia, mostly southern queensland and northern NSW.

Tea tree oil is extracted from the leaves and is considered a very valuable oil for medical and cosmetic purposes. They would grow them close together and then essentially chop them off at the ground and press the leaves for the oil. They would grow back the next year and they would chop them down and get the oil.

They thrive on soil that floods or is swampy part of the time. Might do well in Thailand. Google tea tree oil for a bit of info on the end results.