Control Of Property When Thai Spouse Dies

[tutsiwarrior]

I have read on this forum that when the thai spouse dies in a thai/falang marriage the control (NOT ownership) of property purchased during the marriage passes to the surviving falang partner who must then dispose of the property within a one year period.

If this is true, what can we say about the following:

1. Attempts by the deceased thai spouse's family to 'grab' the property and evict the falang.

2. Inheritance by persons in a will left by the deceased spouse; would control pass to the inheritor after the one year period of control by the surviving falang spouse?

3. Ownership of funds received from the sale of the property should the falang choose to dispose of the property in this manner. Is selling the property an option for the surviving falang spouse if he/she only has temporary control but is not the owner?

I presently have an usufruct on our property so I'm legally covered whatever the eventuality. Item no. 1 seems to be a concern of many forum members. Legally, should they worry (horror stories, hired assassins, etc, notwithstanding)?

Edited February 28, 2008 by tutsiwarrior

[thaigene2]

Not a legal expert so will ask some additional questions for your consideration:

1. Did she leave the place in a Will (witnessed by someone OTHER than you) to you? If so, in any other country that would place you in good stead - i.e. sell the place in one year as per thai law - and pocket the cash.

2. Bring all your foreign friends over to stay with you as long as they can..strength in numbers.

3. Move your bank account statements etc to a safe place - especially all the joint stuff.

4. THINK about what the inlaws "may" already know (insurance policies etc about you) and your accounts.

There are other things - like get out of there - but that sounds like abandonign the place - and you already know how tenuous a farang's position here is. I assume you have no kids.

Finally, doesn't it just suck that we're having this conversation????? Anyone want to buy anything else in Ubon-or-Udon-something???

One other really important point - I learned this from security experts - NEVER telegraph your "prevention" or "self-protection" moves to the opposition (just think about that and you'll figure out their main ideas I think).

Edited February 28, 2008 by thaigene2

[haybilly]

I have read on this forum that when the thai spouse dies in a thai/falang marriage the control (NOT ownership) of property purchased during the marriage passes to the surviving falang partner who must then dispose of the property within a one year period.

If this is true, what can we say about the following:

1. Attempts by the deceased thai spouse's family to 'grab' the property and evict the falang.

2. Inheritance by persons in a will left by the deceased spouse; would control pass to the inheritor after the one year period of control by the surviving falang spouse?

3. Ownership of funds received from the sale of the property should the falang choose to dispose of the property in this manner. Is selling the property an option for the surviving falang spouse if he/she only has temporary control but is not the owner?

I presently have an usufruct on our property so I'm legally covered whatever the eventuality. Item no. 1 seems to be a concern of many forum members. Legally, should they worry (horror stories, hired assassins, etc, notwithstanding)?

I am in no way a legal expert but I was told recently by a lawyer, that your wife should make a will, in accordance with Thai law, witnessed by 2 other people and then legalised at local Ampur, naming you as her executor--in this way it's up to you to do whatever you see fit with whatever assets she stipulated, in the said will, that you were the 'executor' of--if you follow--this stops anyone from wife's family getting hands on 'her' property after her death--obviously not much use to you if your wife has already passed away--something you don't make clear. Also, I don't know how this affects you if you don't want to sell but want to stay resident in the place--not sure that I would if the missus had died and only locals were her embittered relatives.

Like I say--I don't know diddly about Thai law--but this is what I was told--contact a good lawyer to verify.

[sbk]

AFAIK Tutsi's wife is still alive, but well I hope???

I am also interested in this topic as well, not that I expect my husband to kick the bucket anytime soon, but it is nice to know one's options.

[tutsiwarrior]

AFAIK Tutsi's wife is still alive, but well I hope???

I am also interested in this topic as well, not that I expect my husband to kick the bucket anytime soon, but it is nice to know one's options.

not to worry...I'm sure that the missus will outlive me by a considerable margin . I raised the question as there have been many posters on other threads that have expressed apprehension with regard to the spouse's family doing nasty things if the thai spouse was to pre-disease the falang partner which begs the question: what are the falang spouse's legal rights with regard to property that was purchased while married under such unfortunate circumstances?

Mebbe if there was enough interest one of the forum's legal sponsors could jump in and enlighten us...

[Crossy]

I'm no expert, all I can do is relate why my wife and myself have arranged, we have 1.5 Rai which will have our retirement home on it sometime in the next couple of years:-

• I have an usufruct that gives me life usage.
  
• My wife has willed all the land and her share of the house to me (yes I got an independent translation of the will).
  

If my lady dies I should have 12 months in which to dispose of 'my' land assuming permission to own it is not forthcoming. So, I have a year to find a new wife

OR

I will transfer the land to my step-son (whom I trust) and live out my days knowing that he and his family will rush to move in once I'm out of the way.

To be honest, I don't see any further step that I could take to protect my investment in the event that the unthinkable happens.

Wifeys mum was 85 last week, still going strong, barring accidents her daughter will outlast me by a considerable margin (my dad died before he was 70 )

Edited February 29, 2008 by Crossy

[JohnC]

As in all things in LOS the answer to this is to consult a reputable Thai lawyer (dont laugh) and have a will made by both parties, never presume your spouse will outlive you! You only have to look at the road fatalities to realise that age is not the only deciding factor on life expectancy in LOS. In addition, in common with the rest of the world its amazing what comes out of the woodwork when a person dies!

[GuestHouse]

A close friend of mine lost his wife in a road accident. His wife had left 'their' house to their son who was a minor at the time of his mother's death.

His wife's family first made moved to evict him - sending a notification of eviction. He took that and the will to court. The judge ruled in favor of the child.

Some weeks later the family applied to the court to manage the child's estate (the child being a minor).

The father took that and the will to court - The will did not make a clear distinction on the point of estate management, but his will and his wife's will did include phrases along the lines 'in the event of my death my husband/wife shall care for our son'.

The court ruled in favor of the father.

But as he says, up and until the death of the daughter he had enjoyed a very good relationship with his inlaws.

Stating who shall be executor to the wills (you both should have these) and as suggested above, who should be the executor is essential.

[ray23]

Money can make bitter enemies out of the best of friends

[thaigene2]

A close friend of mine lost his wife in a road accident. His wife had left 'their' house to their son who was a minor at the time of his mother's death.

His wife's family first made moved to evict him - sending a notification of eviction. He took that and the will to court. The judge ruled in favor of the child.

Some weeks later the family applied to the court to manage the child's estate (the child being a minor).

The father took that and the will to court - The will did not make a clear distinction on the point of estate management, but his will and his wife's will did include phrases along the lines 'in the event of my death my husband/wife shall care for our son'.

The court ruled in favor of the father.

But as he says, up and until the death of the daughter he had enjoyed a very good relationship with his inlaws.

Stating who shall be executor to the wills (you both should have these) and as suggested above, who should be the executor is essential.

Very intersting (if not sad) post and thread. Two questions:

1. (regarding Gusesthouse' post) - can the Executor/trix be a 'non-thai' and 'non-resident'?

2. In other countries, the fact you have a registered a Will with the local authority (and have a translation as stated above) may not matter much if a 'new' Will - even not registered - is produced upon death that has different instructions. In a place like LOS that could easily be faked..So question is - are only pre-death "registered" Wills valid? Or can someone present 'another' one after death?

[GuestHouse]

Very interesting (if not sad) post and thread. Two questions:

1. (regarding Gusesthouse' post) - can the Executor/trix be a 'non-thai' and 'non-resident'?

An executor can be whomever you want, but I would warn that being an overseas executor is extremely difficult. I was the executor for a British friend's wills. He died in the UK and I was living in Thailand at the time. Dealing with his Thai will was pretty straight forward but dealing with his UK will from Thailand was extremely difficult.

I would therefore always advise you choose a local executor.

2. In other countries, the fact you have a registered a Will with the local authority (and have a translation as stated above) may not matter much if a 'new' Will - even not registered - is produced upon death that has different instructions. In a place like LOS that could easily be faked..So question is - are only pre-death "registered" Wills valid? Or can someone present 'another' one after death?

Wills need to be witnessed and preferably registered - It is always best to get people who are not named in the will as witnesses and also to place details in a will that cannot be guessed at - for example reference numbers to policies and accounts. All this aims to support the veracity of a will.

Also it is wise to frequently update wills, my wife and I keep our wills with the same two lawyers in the UK and Thailand - They also have each of the revisions on file, so trying to slip a bogus revision in is going to be pretty obvious as it would not fit the form or practice of past revisions.