How Dangerous Is Thailand?

[stevehaigh]

There have been several stories about murders and such in Thailand recently and I just read a post on the Samui board by some guy asking if Ko Tao was safe!

So it got me thinking, what are the relative safety metrics for each country (excluding such obviously screwed up places like Iraq and Afghanistan)? I’m particularly interested in how Thailand compares to the USA. I’ll look it up on google but maybe someone has some info on this.

[Vit77]

There have been several stories about murders and such in Thailand recently and I just read a post on the Samui board by some guy asking if Ko Tao was safe!

So it got me thinking, what are the relative safety metrics for each country (excluding such obviously screwed up places like Iraq and Afghanistan)? I’m particularly interested in how Thailand compares to the USA. I’ll look it up on google but maybe someone has some info on this.

Try walk in the dark thru black districts in USA cities (Detroit, Chicago, NYC or others (I don't know others.. hehe)). What is reletive safety metrics for each country then? Your questions depend on many things and I don't think anybody can estimate average note of that.

[PvtDick]

"Black districts"? Sheesh, I wouldn't walk through ANY district of most US cities alone at night.

[Khun Larry]

Try walk in the dark thru black districts in USA cities (Detroit, Chicago, NYC or others (I don't know others.. hehe)).

These places are not covering up the fact that they are dangerous. Nor are they promoting themselves as family vacation spots.

The danger is in misleading people into thinking they are safer than they really are. TIT.

[britmaveric]

Use common sense/street smarts where ever you travel and 99.9% sure you'll be ok.

[andyadam]

I feel safer here in BKK than I would in New York or London!

As with any metropolis caution is key!

[GuestHouse]

There are two important factors when considering Safety.

Perceived Risk/Safety

and

Actual Risk/Safety

The first is to a great extent emotional and being so it more often than not overrides the facts relating to the second.

Perceptions of danger in the west are to a great extent determined by the politica/media relationship to violence. Public safety is a political issue and therefore receives a great deal of media coverage - and we all know there is no news in good news. So the media reasserts the image of a dangerous world.

Foreigners living in Thailand are not subected to this message about Thailand to anywhere near the same level. This for two reasons; Public safety/violent crime is not a political/media issue in Thailand, and what coverage it does receive goes largely un noticed foreigners who do not speak Thai. The death of a foreigner gets noticed but the obviously greater deaths among Thais go un noticed.

There is a third factor and that is to do with immigrants viewing their chosen home through rose tinted glasses, while at the same time being only too willing to view their former home as being something they escaped from.

My personal view is that violent crime alone is extremely high in Thailand, mostly Thais attacking other Thais but that a significant number of foreigners are attacked.

It would be interesting to know what the murder rate per capita is in the west compared with the murder rate per capita for westerners living in Thailand, I''d wager it is higher in Thailand but I have no figures to prove it.

Safety rates for other ways of getting yourself killed in Thailand, road accidents, fires and industrial accidents etc are appauling.

Thailand's roads alone kill in excess of 25000 people per year!

[Totster]

Use common sense/street smarts where ever you travel and 99.9% sure you'll be ok.

yep... but also.. it's as dangerous as you make it...!!

totster

[andyadam]

Safety rates for other ways of getting yourself killed in Thailand, road accidents, fires and industrial accidents etc are appauling.

Ok, granted but look at the sasety records of western countries when they were developing, probably as bad if not worse.

How many bar fights do you see here, in Thai bars I have never seen any, in sukhumvit, I have seen a couple. My home town in England has quite a few bars, most of them will have at least 1 incident a night at a weekend!

Thai culture is far more respectful toward people than western culture.

[Totster]

How many bar fights do you see here, in Thai bars I have never seen any, in sukhumvit, I have seen a couple. My home town in England has quite a few bars, most of them will have at least 1 incident a night at a weekend!

Thai culture is far more respectful toward people than western culture.

I don't know..... fighting between Thais, especially when they've been drinking is rife...!!

The main difference between Thailand and UK for instance, is that the Thais are likely to get the knives and guns out..

[stevehaigh]

just for the record, i feel infinitely safer in thailand than any major city in the US. i'm acutally trying to find murder and violent crime rates for the different countries but i havn't found a good, recent source yet.

[Spee]

It would be interesting to know what the murder rate per capita is in the west compared with the murder rate per capita for westerners living in Thailand,

This may help ...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap

[siam]

Thnaks Spee great interesting sites,Had some fun looking at them even though they are only upto year 2000,

Frightening to know over 4% of prisoners in the UK are Jamaican.

[Totster]

Spee.... excellent links... surprising where some countries are on the lists eh..!

totster

[Spee]

Thnaks Spee great interesting sites,Had some fun looking at them even though they are only upto year 2000,

Yeah interesting for sure ... but like I've said here before, look not only at what the statistics say, but also what they don't say.

For example, like other people have hinted at, murder rates in places like the New Orleans or Detroit inner cities are going to be significantly higher than in middle class surburbia america. The numbers are an average, with huge spikes in a few areas and huge lulls in most others.

I'm sure Thailand is no different. There are probably a huge number of places that are as safe as the day is long. Then again, going wandering in the jungle up near the golden triangle could be a one way trip. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think when violence occurs to westerners in Thailand, it seems like in many cases they put themselves into the situation rather than the situation being some random occurence.

It's like other people have said, one just has to be careful. When I used to live in some pretty rough areas in the states (e.g., one pistol hidden by the front door and another next to my pillow), my "trouble-sensing-radar" was very well tuned and on high alert most of the time. I could usually see trouble coming before it got there, and hence avoid it (whether I was sh*t-faced drunk or dead sober).

On the other hand, now that I've been in much "quieter" areas for the past several years, I find myself not turning up my "radar" when I should. This has happened to me in Thailand (and other areas as well). I sometimes have to consciously remind myself to be careful and be aware of my surroundings.

I think sometimes when people are on holiday, or inebriated, or feeling arrogant relative to the native peoples, they lose sight of these things. When this happens, wrong place, wrong time, things can obviously go bad.

I don't think it's as random as people are maybe led to believe. With that poor couple who were murdered recently, they certainly didn't deserve to die. And not to speak ill of the dead, but from the published reports, it seems like they put themselves into a bad situation that turned into a worst case scenario.

Sorry ... it's late and I'm rambling on a bit.

[stroll]

I'd say as a family vacation destination Thailand is extremely safe.

For foreigners getting involved in love triangles and shady business deals with locals it is extremely unsafe.

As a resident with pleasant enough manners I feel much safer in Bangkok than any other places I stayed in the past.

[stroll]

The main difference between Thailand and UK for instance, is that the Thais are likely to get the knives and guns out..

...which is one of the reasons they don't get into fights so easily as the brainless yobs back home.

[Totster]

The main difference between Thailand and UK for instance, is that the Thais are likely to get the knives and guns out.. 

...which is one of the reasons they don't get into fights so easily as the brainless yobs back home.

Like I said before... it's as dangerous as you make it... don't get yourself into situations that have the possibility of turning nasty...

Now sometimes things can happen out of your control... but then this applies everywhere.... but using good common sense and communication skills can go along way to improving the situation and providing a positive outcome, without violence and bloodshed.

totster

[Spee]

Spee.... excellent links... surprising where some countries are on the lists eh..!

Interesting topic ... did a bit of surfing and found a few more:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/th/Crime

http://www.ds-osac.org/view.cfm?key=774455...=3D13151D011112

http://www.econ.worldbank.org/files/15756_...CrimeCauses.PDF

http://www.uncjin.org/Statistics/WCTS/trc000927.pdf

And yeah Totster ... I am surprised to see some countries where they are as well!

[GuestHouse]

The statistics on the website posted here indicate a murder rate in Thailand of 7 times more than that of the UK!

Having lived in Thailand for over twelve years that comes as no surprise at all.

But I would still like to know the figures for foreigners murdered in Thailand measured against the numbers of foreigners in Thailand.

My guess is that that figure will be even higher, but it is only a guess.

As for the 'Feeling of being safer in Thailand', with a seven fold difference in the murder rate between Thailand and the UK it is quite clear how wrong that 'feeling' can be.

Exactly the point I made earlier, perception and actuality are seldom aligned - perception too often convinces us that the actuallity is better or worse than it is.

[Spee]

But I would still like to know the figures for foreigners murdered in Thailand measured against the numbers of foreigners in Thailand.

Probably a tough one to nail down IMHO.

Could probably get reasonably close by analyzing it. First it would seem reasonable to split up the foreigners into permanent residents and tourists.

I don't know that there have been many (if any) murders involving anyone who was foreign by birth but was a permanent resident of Thailand at the time of their demise. This could be further subdivided into falangs, NE asian, SE asian, etc. Aren't these usually well publicized and traceable?

If these numbers can be obtained, along with the number of foreign permanent residents, a division could be done to compute a reasonably accurate per capita number.

With respect to the risk of getting clipped on a tourist trip, that should be pretty straightforward (at least on pure averages). The country maintains fairly accurate records of the number of tourists who visit every year (and possibly also the average length of stay). The homicides definitely make the press, so they should be countable. From there it's just basic division.

Anyone up for pairing up to do a little independent web-based thai-visa research? If so, PM me. Pick either the permanent residents or tourists to research, and I'd be willing to take the other. A bit of a morbid topic, I would agree, but still an interesting one.

[Indo-Siam]

I'll add in a comment that applies in most places in the world.

In any given location, the likelihood of a given passer-through experiencing problems with crime or violence increases by a relative factor of 10 to 50x, comparing "normal waking hours" to the hours between midnight and 5:00 am.

All around the world, most pickpocketing, bar fights, drunken driver collisions - and all related activities happen late at night, when drunks predominate, and people get careless.

Bangkok is VERY much like that. As resident here, by simply being in bed by midnight most nights (and certainly off the streets), I figure I avoid >95% of what danger does exist here.

Many tourists come here with their body clocks set on distant time zones - and many unsavory bottom-feeder types (and predator types) make their rounds late at night - and the resulting mix can make for some lurid statistics. But - if you lead a normal business-person's life here, you avoid the vast majority of exposure to such characters.

One other globally universal consideration, applying to cities of 5,000,000+ souls: If you are staggering drunk, and wearing lots of flashy gold chains, fancy rolex watch, etc - and you go staggering down dark alleys - even close to heavy traffic areas - some sharp-eyed predator is likely to help lighten your load. Picture the limping, weakened wildabeast trying to catch up to the migrating herd approaching the Zambezi river - no such specimins ever tend to die of old age - and neither will a drunken idiot in Bangkok escape unscathed - if he wanders into dark corners late at night.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[stroll]

- and neither will a drunken idiot in Bangkok escape unscathed - if he wanders into dark corners late at night.

I've been very lucky then.

I don't believe going to bed before midnight is the answer to potential dangers in the streets. Maybe ThaiVisa has saved my life by keeping me in front of the screen at odd hours lately...

[Vit77]

"Black districts"? Sheesh, I wouldn't walk through ANY district of most US cities alone at night.

Hahahahaha, it's not so dangerous I often walked thru Mexican districts at night But this is the answer how we can compare 2 countries

[Vit77]

Try walk in the dark thru black districts in USA cities (Detroit, Chicago, NYC or others (I don't know others.. hehe)).

These places are not covering up the fact that they are dangerous. Nor are they promoting themselves as family vacation spots.

The danger is in misleading people into thinking they are safer than they really are. TIT.

Yes, I agree

[phormio]

I'd say as a family vacation destination Thailand is extremely safe.

...

Except when the family crosses a street

[Spee]

In any given location, the likelihood of a given passer-through experiencing problems with crime or violence increases by a relative factor of 10 to 50x, comparing "normal waking hours" to the hours between midnight and 5:00 am.

I'll buy that. I like to walk around and explore.

When I was in Bkk a few weeks ago, I spent several hours just walking through the neighborhoods between Siam Square and the touristy areas up on the northern edge along the Chao Phraya river. This was all during the mid-afternoon hours (e.g., broad daylight).

Although I got some strange looks in some of the areas, being this big odd looking falang that I am, I never felt unsafe or threatened. In a couple of the areas, I think this could have possibly been a different case in the night-time hours.

[DrBooze]

I worry about falling down a random hole more than violent crime in BKK!

[Coffee Dude]

Perceived safety is usually much lower than actual safety.

The press looks for sensationalism and for some reason seems to try to affect tourism.

The SARS media blitz for example.

Koh Samui was a ghost island for several months becasue of this media hype. When the fact was that you were more likely to get an intestnal bacteria and die of diahrea than to even contract the SARS virus (of which there were no reported case of someone contracting SARS in Thailand).

I think the same type of exagerated perception is likely from the unfortunate and regretable murders of a few people.

Same thing happened in Florida a few years ago. A few Tourists were murdered and robbed and the media would have you believe that if you went to Florida you were probably going to die a horrible and violent death.

I feel safer in Thailand than ANY other country I have visited or lived in during my 50 year life.

Coffee!!!

[Nam Kao]

German tourist attacked with bottle by jealous boyfriend

Police vow to arrest assailant

Boonlua Chatree

A dispute over a bargirl led a jealous Thai man to assault a German tourist, smashing a bottle in the foreigner’s face, and breaking his nose. Still not satisfied, the assailant threatened the bar owner and vowed to attack all foreigners who came into the bar.

Werner Schmidt was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Pornprom Soum, 37, who runs the Sweet Raymond beer bar on Soi Regent Marina Village called the police. At the scene, police found Werner Schmidt, 59, sitting on the floor with his face and clothes covered with blood. Pornprom told officers that a Thai man who works as a security guard at a beer bar next door attacked the tourist with a large Chang beer bottle, which broke his nose, and other witness confirmed her story. Werner was taken to Pattaya Memorial Hospital for treatment of his injuries.

Service worker Wilawan Yopho, 23, told police that the attacker was a man called Kai who worked as a guard at the neighboring X-Ray A-go-go Bar. She said two days before, Kai had paid her for providing sexual services, and that he came back to the bar the next day wanting her services again but she refused because she was sick. Kai said, “If you don’t want to come with me that’s okay, but I will hit any foreigners who set foot in this bar.” Wilawan said just then Werner, who had recently arrived in Pattaya, entered the bar and Kai attacked him.

Police went to Pattaya Memorial Hospital and found that Werner had a broken noise, which needed a brace, and he received 9 stitches. Werner told officers was a salesman in Germany and had just retired. He said, “I love Thailand and have come to visit every year for the past 28 years. I’ve never had trouble or been harmed before. I still think Pattaya has good people and I definitely come back to Thailand again.”

Police Lieutenant Colonel Sumet Harnwisai, investigator on duty at the Pattaya police station, said he could not believe the severity of what happened to this tourist through no fault of his own. Sumet stressed he would not let the perpetrator get away and will order an immediate arrest