Unscrupulous Developer Near Airport

[alohaelek]

1. We lived in a housing project near the airport in miserable conditions. We bought this project on the promise of beautiful living conditions which never came true. The brochures were wonderful. We paid premium prices for buying a plot of land next to a garden which the developer never built. Along came the 1997 crisis. Most of the houses in this project became half built and uncompleted. Many of the plots owned by the developer became overgrown by tall grass and all kinds of weeds and trees. The roads were unkempt. The sewers overflow and nobody took care of the drainage. We do not have many neighbours and the road that lead to our house is poorly lit. Everything is badly maintained or not maintained at all. They only do little cutting of the grass and they use fire to burn anything. They only have one security guard for the project of around 100 rais. Some of the houses were broken in and owners' robbed. Many drug takers came and use the uninhabited houses to take drugs. The unfortunate owners lived in fear and some employ their own security guards which is very costly and some used their own lighting on their fences to brighten up the roads. Many had to rear dogs as protection and as a first warning . Because of the bad enviroment, we are unable to sell off our property. During the crisis the developer were sued for bankruptcy. But after 10 years somehow they came back and claimed that the court award them the right to reorganise and then they are now trying to sell the rest of this project again. The developer started to insist that all living in this miserable project must pay maintenance fees. They now require that every house in this project must pay up and they will be given a sticker or else they will not allow the owner's car to enter his own home. Those house owners who do not want to pay up have continuous arguments. The amount they are asking for will make them rich very fast without any auditing. The developer does not want to give us any report on the maintenace expenses and who are contributors .
   

Those who do not pay the money will first be blocked by the guards. Secondly, the owners of the projects have many men who threaten the house owners and will bully them by all means like setting fires to the grass and weeds next to your house.

Anybody can help us to let us and our neighbours know where we legally stand ?

What is the right way of paying of these maintenance fees of this housing project ? We want to resolve this problem so that we can live in better conditions.

Can the guards block us from entering the road leading to our own home ?

We believe that some of the uninhabited houses were taken over by the financial institutions. Do these financial institutions have to pay too?

Can the developer let their men behave like mafia towards the house owners?

Can we call the police or sue them in the court ? If they start to burn the grass and trees at the vacant blocks just next to our house in a dangerous way when there is a strong wind and they claimed they have the right to do so and we are afraid that our house and our neighbour houses will catch fire; what can we do ? Can we report them to the police?

We bought the house in the early 1990s. It has been 18 years already. Can the developer still claim the right to the roads in the project and it belongs to them or it should belong to everybody in the project since this is a housing project ( Baan Chadsaan ) ?

Even if the developer owns the majority of the land, can we be part of the management committee to oversee how the money is collected and spent ?

Who can we complain our problem to? We know that this is Thailand but we are feeling very miserable living in such an environment.

Anybody facing such problems and what actions they have taken to protect themselves and their ies?

[dave111223]

Clearly extortion, surely the police should be called.

[sunreader]

God what a nightmare!...sorry to read that story and hope you can maybe get some expert legal advice?

[Cuban]

It has been 18 years already. Can the developer still claim the right to the roads in the project and it belongs to them or it should belong to everybody in the project since this is a housing project ( Baan Chadsaan ) ?

Sorry to hear of your situation, my understanding is that during such projects the developer pays for the access road to be build then hands over owership to the local government council who then adopt it as a public road and provide lighting and road cleaning services etc. The developer does not retain any claim to the road. However, I also understand that the council are slow to adopt roads that do not provide income to them in the form of having many residents etc.

[jonniebkk]

Sounds like a real nitemare...this is what can happen when buying off plan and then throw in a nationwide financial panic and collapse. Not a pretty sight for sure. I am somewhat familiar with the laws regarding developers and their moobaans because I have lived in a couple. My knowledge is limited to what the law is currently...but don't know if your development would be governed by current law or the laws in effect at the time it was built.

Anyway, currently, at least, basically the developer retains ownership and responsibility for the common areas of the development until the majority/most of the units are sold. At that point, there are 2 options: 1) The developer can continue to own/manage the common areas and collect fees for this or 2) They can basically turn over these areas to the resident's association, which then becomes a self-governing legal entity which manages the common areas for the residents. This change in ownership of the development's common areas is registered at the relevant land office.

As this change was newer effected at your moobaan, I would hazard a guess that the developer is within his rights to resume collection of fees to maintain the common areas. Also, currently, if common areas shown on sales brochures (pools, gardens, gyms, etc.) are not in fact built, it is sometimes possible to sue the developer for fraud and obtain an order that they be in fact built or some form of monetary compensation for their absence.

Of course, taking any action to actually enforce your rights will only inflame the developer and his mafia goons so you have to weight your actions accordingly. TIT

[Irene]

You need to have a committee set up with a few active leaders. First, go and find out on the owners' legal standing from the Law Society of Thailand. It is an association of Thailand lawyers and it has a division comprising of voluntary helper to advise citizens of their rights. The office is near the Democratic Monument on the Rajadomnoen Road. Second, go to consumers protection division at the Prime Minister Office for their second opinion. (You need to google to find out the address).

I would love to know the name of the developer so that I could avoid them in term of business and acquaintance. However, it is still very good of you to let us know how bad this can be. Although, under new laws, there are better protection but still not enough.

[alohaelek]

Thanks for the various replies. The project is along the Bangnatrad Road. It is a very big estate owned by one developer. Our project is one of the few within this estate. I believe when they started the project they had good intentions. We were impressed by their brochures and the mock ups and the expanse of the projects. During the 1997 crisis, many big developers failed. We sympathise with them. Before we signed on the dotted line in the 1990s, they call us "VALUABLE CUSTOMERS ". But now they treat us like dirt. What we are most angry is that they left us in the big shit they created. The value of their property have dropped so much that their only hope is to try to sell off their rubbish to the AOT. For so many years we have been left alone and we have to fight by ourselves with the drug takers, robbers, cut grass ourselves, throwing away rubbish by ourselves. They have never say thank you when they came back and and now they demand money from us. We do not mind paying if they had come, approach all the neighbours, sit down and hold a meeting and lay the cards on the table and make a fair deal for everybody. They never even ask us or speak to us on how we had coped in the many years. The developer must declare who are the owners of the various unbuilt houses, vacant lands etc etc. I believe that they are ashamed in their hearts that they did not pay for their own share. But then this is Thailand.

The last 6 months or so, they have done up the front fascade. They have grown trees and scrubs to hide the bad and the ugly. Drive further and deeper into the project and the problem will unfold.

Yes, I think some of the neighbours can sue for fraud. But as one of the readers mentioned, we will have to contend with the goons that they employ. Thanks again for the various recommendations.

[Thaipwriter]

Its normal to pay a maintainance fee to the developer every month for the upkeep of the streets and to pay for street lighting. It looks like things are finally going to improve for you.

I would pay up and hope that things happen, if they dont happen, stop paying. Simple really.

This is your only shot at getting a house that is resellable and is too good an opportunity to pass up.

[quiksilva]

Anybody can help us to let us and our neighbours know where we legally stand ? You need to seek legal advice

What is the right way of paying of these maintenance fees of this housing project ? We want to resolve this problem so that we can live in better conditions.

Can the guards block us from entering the road leading to our own home ?No, if they try this call the police.

We believe that some of the uninhabited houses were taken over by the financial institutions. Do these financial institutions have to pay too?Yes

Can the developer let their men behave like mafia towards the house owners?They shouldn't but they can

Can we call the police or sue them in the court ? Just as in any case you can only seek legal action once they have committed a crimeIf they start to burn the grass and trees at the vacant blocks just next to our house in a dangerous way when there is a strong wind and they claimed they have the right to do so and we are afraid that our house and our neighbour houses will catch fire; what can we do ? Can we report them to the police?Not a lot, I'm afraid, you can call the police but I doubt they can do much to help, they will probably want to know about it if the developer has the right to do so, the police (fire dept) may want to be present to supervise

We bought the house in the early 1990s. It has been 18 years already. Can the developer still claim the right to the roads in the project and it belongs to them or it should belong to everybody in the project since this is a housing project ( Baan Chadsaan ) ?That depends on whether a Juristic Entity has been established, nonetheless they can NOT use this reason to prohibit entry to your house as your rights of access

Even if the developer owns the majority of the land, can we be part of the management committee to oversee how the money is collected and spent ?I think you need 50% of all house owners to sign up to establish a juristic moo baan, once this is established the house owners of the estate have much more legal protection, but also a responsibility to manage, however, you can not kick the developer out, but as a Juristic Entity you have a much better legal standing on which to negotiate better terms for all residents

Who can we complain our problem to? We know that this is Thailand but we are feeling very miserable living in such an environment. Start off by getting to know your neighbours, find out how many houses were sold and to whom (the land dept may help you here) and get in touch with them hold a meeting and discuss your problems and get the Moo Baan started. You might even find that one has already been established, if so get involved attend AGM's and EGM's and stand for election to the committee

[alohaelek]

Thank you Quick Silva for your advice. I dont like to go into legal wrangles with the listed property developer but if we need to, we will have to do so. Still thinking. Compared to the business that we are doing in Thailand, the fees are only a pittance but I think we need to have certain principles that we need to live by. We have spoken to their manager and everything ended on a heated note. He told us. " We are the developers and we can do whatever we want to do ".

This developer only recently have managed to escape the clutches of the Asset Management Company. Some of these land are already auctioned off and we believe that Bangkok Bank also owned large areas in this particular project. Note that this is one project within their various projects in this big huge estate. When we bought our property there, we had to pay a premium on the land, a 5% premium because the land is sited next to a supposedly garden which was supposed to be built. The extras that we had to pay was at least over Baht 500k on the conservative. We had always asked them to go and do the garden but they never did so and it is now a modern urban jungle with weeds, tall grass and trees. We signed our contact with them in the 1990s. But now since they are claiming rights to everything, can we reclaim the rights to the contract for performance that we paid extra for being sited to the garden and that they must performed their contract if they are intending to claim rights to the ownerships of the roads etc etc. I think we should write to them claiming my 5% extra with interest over all these years for non performance.

All this will not have happened if they just come and talk to the neighbours and ourselves that they want to take over and run the project professionally with all books of accounts instead of writing letters that we owe them so much in outstandings and that they want to charge us rates which we have never agreed upon in the first place. Some neighbours were also threatened into submission while others have their street lamps disconnected.

Planes fly directly overhead when landing from the Bangna Trad Road side. We are already driven crazy by the noise factor and had to spend extra on sound proofing. I do not think that the developer will be able to sell many houses here because of the noise factor altho they have taken out heavy advertisements from the front fascade of the estate facing the main road. Thanks again.

[quiksilva]

As I mentioned before, get the residents together and see if you can form a Juristic Moo Baan. This is very important. If for some reason you cant (perhaps insufficient homes were sold?) try to form an informal residents community / civic association (call it what you will), more voices the better.

But no matter how angry you are, I suggest that you please try to be the bigger man and keep the discussions civil and polite. Otherwise you will never get anything solved!

I have acted as the middle man between co-owners and the developer before, and we always got more progress when negotiations were held on neutral ground in a friendly atmosphere. (Even when they did despicable things.) Keep a cool head, and it will work wonders.

Look at it this way, the developer is looking for management fees to pay for repairs and maintenace (which sound like they are sorely needed), legally you owe them. Of course the developer failed to perform, but sooner or later you will have to pay for these.

Consider it this way, the developer's goals are your own. Now bear with me, I appreciate this may be difficult to hear. They want to sell the estate and make as much money as possible (they are in business after all) but then again you need lots of other resident homeowners to form a community who are paying estate management fees and keeping the village safe, secure, and well managed. A populated, well managed estate is in everyone's interest.

As the developers, they do own the land so they do have rights, but those rights also mean responsibilities and by law they are required to take care of the common infrastructure etc. But how to get them to actually do it?

Well I suggest that you only ever speak to the most senior person possible. Present items from their point of view, "show them the money" (so to speak)

Eg. tackling the garden issue, may be more effective if you come at it from their point of view, a beautiful well tended garden and common areas will help to improve the marketability of the entire estate, the achievable prices, and the general living environment there.

Not much can be done about the airport noise, but that has not stopped many estates from selling well in that area.

Food for thought I hope.

Good luck with it.

[kanderson]

1. We lived in a housing project near the airport in miserable conditions. We bought this project on the promise of beautiful living conditions which never came true. The brochures were wonderful. We paid premium prices for buying a plot of land next to a garden which the developer never built. Along came the 1997 crisis. Most of the houses in this project became half built and uncompleted. Many of the plots owned by the developer became overgrown by tall grass and all kinds of weeds and trees. The roads were unkempt. The sewers overflow and nobody took care of the drainage. We do not have many neighbours and the road that lead to our house is poorly lit. Everything is badly maintained or not maintained at all. They only do little cutting of the grass and they use fire to burn anything. They only have one security guard for the project of around 100 rais. Some of the houses were broken in and owners' robbed. Many drug takers came and use the uninhabited houses to take drugs. The unfortunate owners lived in fear and some employ their own security guards which is very costly and some used their own lighting on their fences to brighten up the roads. Many had to rear dogs as protection and as a first warning . Because of the bad enviroment, we are unable to sell off our property. During the crisis the developer were sued for bankruptcy. But after 10 years somehow they came back and claimed that the court award them the right to reorganise and then they are now trying to sell the rest of this project again. The developer started to insist that all living in this miserable project must pay maintenance fees. They now require that every house in this project must pay up and they will be given a sticker or else they will not allow the owner's car to enter his own home. Those house owners who do not want to pay up have continuous arguments. The amount they are asking for will make them rich very fast without any auditing. The developer does not want to give us any report on the maintenace expenses and who are contributors .
   

Those who do not pay the money will first be blocked by the guards. Secondly, the owners of the projects have many men who threaten the house owners and will bully them by all means like setting fires to the grass and weeds next to your house.

Anybody can help us to let us and our neighbours know where we legally stand ?

What is the right way of paying of these maintenance fees of this housing project ? We want to resolve this problem so that we can live in better conditions.

Can the guards block us from entering the road leading to our own home ?

We believe that some of the uninhabited houses were taken over by the financial institutions. Do these financial institutions have to pay too?

Can the developer let their men behave like mafia towards the house owners?

Can we call the police or sue them in the court ? If they start to burn the grass and trees at the vacant blocks just next to our house in a dangerous way when there is a strong wind and they claimed they have the right to do so and we are afraid that our house and our neighbour houses will catch fire; what can we do ? Can we report them to the police?

We bought the house in the early 1990s. It has been 18 years already. Can the developer still claim the right to the roads in the project and it belongs to them or it should belong to everybody in the project since this is a housing project ( Baan Chadsaan ) ?

Even if the developer owns the majority of the land, can we be part of the management committee to oversee how the money is collected and spent ?

Who can we complain our problem to? We know that this is Thailand but we are feeling very miserable living in such an environment.

Anybody facing such problems and what actions they have taken to protect themselves and their ies?

I used to live near there - off Srinakarin Road - not far from Bang Na Trat Road ( Bang Na) - Not a bad area back then - but almost got bitten by a snake one night. I was making 500 Baht per day teaching English to a Million airs son - before I got the job at a good school.

Those were the days.

hey - just move. it won't get any better - most likely.

[steveromagnino]

Consider it this way, the developer's goals are your own. Now bear with me, I appreciate this may be difficult to hear. They want to sell the estate and make as much money as possible (they are in business after all) but then again you need lots of other resident homeowners to form a community who are paying estate management fees and keeping the village safe, secure, and well managed. A populated, well managed estate is in everyone's interest.

Excellent post.

You have to appreciate while you are looking at perhaps losing 1/2 the value of your home which you may eventually get back, it is quite likely that the developer lost almost everything they had and are now grasping at scraps to get back some crumbs.

If they did not sell out to TAMC, then it is clear that they were not politically connected enough to have the government (via the TRT TAMC) bail them out, so they have been doing it hard until now.

They may be extremely cash strapped and so taking an angressive approach will be biting your nose to spite your face, or whatever that bizarre expression is.

Fact - you do have to pay the maintenance fee even though they did nothing.

I'd suggest you contact your neighbours, agree that you will pay under certain grounds, and then try to arrange a joint friendly meeting to discuss how best to proceed with the developer.

Regarding the park/garden, is it in your sale and purchase agreement? If so...then may be enforcable; depends a bit on the legal entity doing the development, it may not be the same company.

The proximity to the airport was a potential issue when you bought, and not relevant here, that is just the nature of the location.

[alohaelek]

I wanted to upload some pictures taken of this project. But failed as only one photo can be uploaded. Can anyone advise? The project had several stages. The first stage is more occupied but then again we are talking of only a handful of owners. One security guard can never protect the place. Ourselves we had robbers entering our premises several times. But thanks to our warning systems, they ran away. We had to rear dogs, some of which were poisoned. We had to get some of our workers to stay over to give protection. Several houses including ours have to employ guards.You have to take care of the security yourself because nobody can help you. Until you look at the photos then, you will understand that the place needs a platoon of guards and everything needs to be cut and trimmed. Think of houses spread apart and in varous parts of this estate.

In order to resolve the problem, I think collection of maintenance fees may never do. Its just impossible. What they need is a major capital injection. To fix everything! There are so many uncompleted and dapilated buildings, abandoned, stripped of fittings, in various stages of collapse. There are so many plots of lands to be entered into and services rendered for grass cutting and then what?? It will be overgrown with weeds and trees again. Who does this houses belongs to.? ... God Knows. Vacant lots too overgrown and some of the houses are so overgrown with vegetation that it can be termed a modern ruins to be discovered in the future. Then some owners have bought the houses and moved out due to living problems. They advertise and try to sell. They give the house a spruce up and within a few months, everything is again run down. U need continued maintenance. Poorly built. Sinking ground as they were built on former rice fields with insufficient piling. Some of the houses built were so unsupervised that the car park area is too small to park a saloon car. The distance between the gate and the car park is too short. I think they need to demolish many of these houses which were supervised by unqualified engineers. These houses are all abandoned. So in the first place, there was no proper construction of the houses for sale, etc etc.

Some of the neighbours had spoken to the developer. They had paid up. The only person they can speak to is the Chief Goon. But they got no service at all. For weeks one of the neighbours never had his dustbin emptied or the grass cut outside his house. He screamed to no avail. When it rains heavily the drainage choked and we have ourselves to locate the choke area and provide maintenance. So he also discontinued the services. Every meeting, the arguments will be heated.

We did not ask to live in such an environment. Did the developer lose any money? They are a big big listed public company. The public would have lost money when the shares prices dropped. And so they are heavily geared. Property can be bought back from the banks at a huge discount.We believed that they had already made a lot of money prior to the crisis .

We will take the various advice and we will try to approach the developer higher ups and see what plans they have in mind. Now they are getting more vicious and they set fires to burn the vacant lots etc etc and many times the fire gets out of control and the fire brigade at have to be called. I think one of these days something nasty will happened and the neighbours and ourselves may lose our houses. Perhaps, we should complain and lodge a report anytime this uncontrolled burning takes place. But they will never admit they are the ones who set fire to the grass and scrubs. Who will admit that they are the ones who set the fires and be prosecuted for public burning of the land.?

I think their only savior is the AOT. I understand that they are making a concerted attempt to get them buy over everything but then again, they must spruce up some of the projects in the estate. Yes, the noise is an added nuisance but not a relevant issue here.

We got the park/garden in the sales purchase agreement. I understand your point of view. Sometimes, (this is Thailandmake ) and you can unsuspecting make contract with different companies.

Snakes. we get loads of them. Pythons. Up to 3 metres or more and cobras. Part of living with nature. We try not to kill them and let them go their own way.

I am already resigned to the fact that I will not be able to sell my property.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Have you thought about getting a decent lawyer ?

[wineaux]

Has this village been named? I guess there is a relucantance to name as one doesn't want to destroy whatever interest there may be left in their village?? People are being screwed left right and centre when buying property in Thailand. Some of us can count ourselves as lucky when we read these stories. Today's Nation highlights the plight of some more foreigners who got f**ked over in Hua Hin.

I've been lucky (comparitively) so far with my two houses I've purchased with one project really coming up with the goods. Perhaps we should be more vocal towards the developments that deliver their promises? One way or another we need to start doing something to stop these monkeys taking advantage.

Ideas anyone?

[Irene]

Has this village been named? I guess there is a relucantance to name as one doesn't want to destroy whatever interest there may be left in their village?? People are being screwed left right and centre when buying property in Thailand. Some of us can count ourselves as lucky when we read these stories. Today's Nation highlights the plight of some more foreigners who got f**ked over in Hua Hin. Per the article, the developer was a foreigner.

I've been lucky (comparitively) so far with my two houses I've purchased with one project really coming up with the goods. Perhaps we should be more vocal towards the developments that deliver their promises? One way or another we need to start doing something to stop these monkeys taking advantage. That is spot on.

Ideas anyone?

[Tony Clifton]

Isn't there a tv show where this could get exposure?

[Thaising]

Isn't there a tv show where this could get exposure?

TITV used to host such daily program for a people that face all sorts of grievances. Not sure whether this program still on air after TITV rename it to Thai Public Broadcasting Services. It may help if the station still hosts such program for general public to lodge their complaints. OP may try and contact this TV station to lodge their grievances.