Do You Think It Would Be Hard To Convince The Average Western Woman To Live In Los?

[submaniac]

just curious, how readily amenable you think most Western/American woman would think about leaving the their country and starting a new life in Thailand? I wonder about this because I am single, and have always been toying with the Idea of living in THailand permanently, which is actually easy cuz have a house and everything else. Of course I am also at this point in my life where I would like to meet the right girl and settle down. And I kind of would like to meet a woman who can speak English. But I am just curious what my prospects would be if I met someone in the states, if many women would be interested in giving up their lives in one country and move to another. Well ladies? What do you think. You are girls, so you are the ones that would know the best. Do you think most women would be willing to do it if they met the right guy, and everything else?

And also, this is just a hypothetical, general what people's feelings are kind of post. So nothing specific. Just wondering cause it seems that if it were me, I may not want to leave my home country.

[Momo8]

It's about mentality Sub and the ability to adapt and aclimatize (spelling) to a completely different environment to the one back 'home'.

Culture shock plays a signifcant part as well as getting used to many,many things and losing your comfort zone and network of friends/family/familiarity.Many girls here on TV are married and live great lives with their Thai husbands so it can be done.When I lived in Thailand I loved it but then again I did live a globetrotting lifestyle before so I was more 'accepting' of differences.It's very different to living somewhere as oppsed to being a mere tourist.

When I moved to Shanghai that was an eye opener even though it's very modernized and good gweilo support groups I felt overwhelmed by the amount of people cluttering the People's Square subway station,the language differences,the Chinese way of 'doing things',the bad habits of Chinese people (spitting bones on the table,holding a conversation and mid-way spitting between your feet and continue talking) the crazy traffic,the restaurants where you can't order without being misunderstood and all the frustrations arising as a result of this.Same as in Thailand.

I quickly adapted though and learnt early on,quickly picked up Mandarin,got my driver's license.If you take refuge in your foreign friends and comfort zones,you're NEVER going to adapt,you're just a visitor.I think it is in a person's ability to adapt.I think my husband played a big part in this process,now he says I'm more Chinese than he is hahaha and I tease him and say he's a Chinese in a foreign mind oh well.

My biggest hurdle was with children and adapting to a Chinese family but again the key here is acceptance and forgetting your background.Meaning when in Rome (or China,or wherever,do as they do.)

Since moving to HK I miss China and the little idiosyncracies that make it special to me.....and I always escape to Thailand to visit my good friends.

I think also Sub money talks here.I've always managed to have fabulous jobs and was financially independent this is important.Many expat wives here in HK have just one life.Play tennis,swim,go to the yacht club,shop,expect the husband to support this lifestyle and then complain about him never being home and go off and have affairs.A very plastic life they can have back home.These type of women blah,they never make an effort to do anything.

If you ever consider marrying and bringing someone to Thailand Sub,consider all of the above,because love just won't last unless it really is a girl who can adapt.Maybe a Thai-US girl would suit you more,and be very supportive and sensitive to her needs as I'm sure you would be since you sound adorable.(Forget the backcomb too)

[submaniac]

Sound adorable?!?!?! Nah, hun, AM ADORABLE! Thanks for the insights, you do seem to have led an interesting life. And the backcomb, IT STAYS!

[Momo8]

Happy convincing though I'm sure many members here will have stories more pertaining to Thailand.

[girlx]

I did it and I am an American, but I admit I am an exception. I have never really settled in any place before. I don't have really strong family ties in the US. I also like to devour other cultures. SBK is American too. I get really frustrated with Thai culture sometimes as it seems diametrically opposite to mine, but then I like challenges too. Every time I think I know where I stand with these people, something happens that gets me upside down. It has been especially hard doing it solo!

I can't get most of my friends in America to come out here though- it is a 27 hour trip from NY.

P.S. Plenty of girls already in Thailand.

Edited March 2, 2008 by girlx

[Momo8]

Also helps Sub that you have the best of both worlds at your disposal.Thailand and the US.

Cross cultural relationships aside do you consider yourself more Thai or more farang ?For a western woman having a guy who has experienced/lived in and understands western culture makes a big difference to adjusting to another country.Just my take.

[RueFang]

Are you trying to pick up Sub? And only American women? You might be missing out there! I think Momo's got it when she says about adaptability is the key. From my experience of living here for over 3 years the farang women I meet with Thai partners or even if they are single but living in Thailand long term and not dating beach boys, they all have a commonality.. they are down to earth, practical, adaptable and highly accepting of different situations and people. As you know it's not so common to see farang chics with Thai guys but vice versa is seen everywhere. Maybe it's because men are more able to leave family and friends behind to come live here. I'm not saying at all that men don't have deep friendships but I think the bond between girl friends is pretty deep and perhaps being away from family is too hard for a lot of women. I'm not particularly close with my family, I love them dearly but we've been spread to different corners of the globe for well over a decade, but living without friends is definitely the hardest thing. Women need to talk!

I have wondered reading your posts if you've had a bit of culture shock coming back here too, even though you are Thai, but because you are so 'westernised'? I don't feel like I had culture shock living here but will say the longer you live here the more you see how very, very different western culture is from Thai culture!

[Momo8]

Are you trying to pick up Sub?

Nah he'sjust a sweetie wih a combover.

And only American women? You might be missing out there! I think Momo's got it when she says about adaptability is the key.

Well he did say he lives in the US too so makes sense geography and all that.adaptability and acceptance are the key things in any culture.Things pee you off but if bullets bounce off you culture wise and your Asian hubby/bf wise AND you understand the nuance of eveyday life then............you've got it made!

I'm not particularly close with my family, I love them dearly but we've been spread to different corners of the globe for well over a decade, but living without friends is definitely the hardest thing. Women need to talk!

Yes my mother is Swiss my dad an Aussie family everywhere but we all communicate and catch up.

I have wondered reading your posts if you've had a bit of culture shock coming back here too, even though you are Thai, but because you are so 'westernised'? I don't feel like I had culture shock living here but will say the longer you live here the more you see how very, very different western culture is from Thai culture!

That's got to be the understatement of the millenium!AND we all need friends to bounce back from if you are isolated you go crazy and really lose it in the 'What the heck am I here' syndrome.That's why being stong and financially independent has a lot going for it.

You've got to take the hard knocks with the good being a foreign woman in a different culture but about the individual ed nauseum.

[kat]

In order to answer this question, you would first have to be the right guy, who asked the right woman. There is no other way to answer it generally, because so much depends on the people and the situation, and how much they can arrange or compromise for each other. If fulfilling the scenario is less dependent on particular people rather than a particular situation, then it should be very easy to find someone or anyone to step into a scenario. But, arranging one between two people is an entirely different story.

[Momo8]

In order to answer this question, you would first have to be the right guy, who asked the right woman. There is no other way to answer it generally, because so much depends on the people and the situation, and how much they can arrange or compromise for each other. If fulfilling the scenario is less dependent on particular people rather than a particular situation, then it should be very easy to find someone or anyone to step into a scenario. But, arranging one between two people is an entirely different story.

The right woman are the key words here Kat.Many western women are too spoilt and spit the dummy at any adverse situation in a foreign country.You have to make compromises and don't think you're still in the US,Oz,wherever.You are a different persona or you die in the place mentally.

What gets me is the amount of western women who DO go to a different place and still believe they are 'back home'.This is when relationships die.Mentality man is the key.So my advice Sub is as Kat said you need to find the right woman.

Since Sub is asking this question maybe he's being coy and has someone picked out already.Own up Sub.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Momo8

[swain]

Very hard.... every woman I have brought out from the west... could not adapt.. they were used to being the center of their world in the USA as many women are. Women lose that power coming here... its an eye opening experience for most and they may gain insight into themselves... but everyone has gone home and said ... Thailand, nice place to visit... but....

And to be honest only 2 of 6 said it was a nice place fo visit.

[Patsycat]

Can you send my ticket via DHL?

[isabelle17]

When I came back from Thailand to America, many of my friends were amazed that I stayed there so long, let alone just WENT there. I think western women (and men too) have many misconceptions about Asia in general. A lot of them think its diry, over populated, the guys are too short, dangerous, etc. Plus, some don't like the idea of living in another country that has a different language....which I think is not a very good reason in my opinion.

But needless to say, they havent experienced living in Asia so...how would they know? Maybe if you are able to find a woman who has been to Asia before, she might be more willing to live there because she knows what its like. There are a lot of open minded, adventerous (sp?) women out there who would be willing to go to another country. You might just have to look harder for them.

Also, I tend to agree...women can be very close to their friends and family, I know I am. Thats probably the hardest thing about living in Thailand for me....if all of my friends and family would only just move to Thailand!!! I have been trying to convince them.... but hasn't worked...yet!

[lioness]

I do think it would be hard to convince the average woman to come to Thailand.

I came for a 3 week holiday and my friends said " your not going on your own are you ", yes I said, that was a few years ago, I am still here, but I haven;t been successful in getting my friends to come.

I guess each person is different, I was lucky to have travelled the world on my own and it doesn't really matter where I am, I always manage. It isn't easy on your own, but with the support of a partner it would be better.

If the woman in question hadn't travelled, hadn't been away from family and friends for any length of time, hadn't been outside her comfort zone then potentially it could be a recipe for homesickness.

I have been trying to get my favorite sister in law to visit from the UK, no way am I coming to Thailand she says, why not I ask? it's not safe says she. Doesn;t matter how I try and reasure her, even offered to pay for the ticket and that didn't work either.

[kat]

In order to answer this question, you would first have to be the right guy, who asked the right woman. There is no other way to answer it generally, because so much depends on the people and the situation, and how much they can arrange or compromise for each other. If fulfilling the scenario is less dependent on particular people rather than a particular situation, then it should be very easy to find someone or anyone to step into a scenario. But, arranging one between two people is an entirely different story.

The right woman are the key words here Kat.Many western women are too spoilt and spit the dummy at any adverse situation in a foreign country.You have to make compromises and don't think you're still in the US,Oz,wherever.You are a different persona or you die in the place mentally.

What gets me is the amount of western women who DO go to a different place and still believe they are 'back home'.This is when relationships die.Mentality man is the key.So my advice Sub is as Kat said you need to find the right woman.

Since Sub is asking this question maybe he's being coy and has someone picked out already.Own up Sub.

I think when you are very young, the question can be more easily broken down along very simple lines of being "too spoiled" or not. In cases where people have a life or firm ideas of what to do with their lives, such as a career, it can be much less simple. I lived in LOS for 4 years, and it was never an issue of being "spoiled".There are a lot of compromises to be made moving from west to east, and especially from west to Thailand. Depending on where a woman or even a person is in their life, those compromises can be too big. But, again under the right circumstances and with the right people, some lives can be arranged so that they are also fulfilling in a career or other sense in LOS, outside of the relationship as well. It would take arranging though, and is not automatic. You can gain a lot by the move, but to some you also lose a lot as well. Those are the compromised that would need to be negotiated, and of course it depends on the trust and commitment of the relationship.

Very hard.... every woman I have brought out from the west... could not adapt.. they were used to being the center of their world in the USA as many women are. Women lose that power coming here... its an eye opening experience for most and they may gain insight into themselves... but everyone has gone home and said ... Thailand, nice place to visit... but....

And to be honest only 2 of 6 said it was a nice place fo visit.

It is much different when you are in your own relationship, and have your own form of livelihood or interests that are not dependent on the given status quo and power structure of LOS. Then it is just a matter of cultural respect, without the dependence.

[britmaveric]

I did it and I am an American, but I admit I am an exception. I have never really settled in any place before. I don't have really strong family ties in the US. I also like to devour other cultures. SBK is American too. I get really frustrated with Thai culture sometimes as it seems diametrically opposite to mine, but then I like challenges too. Every time I think I know where I stand with these people, something happens that gets me upside down. It has been especially hard doing it solo!

I can't get most of my friends in America to come out here though- it is a 27 hour trip from NY.

P.S. Plenty of girls already in Thailand.

actually 17.5 hrs from JFK on TG

[submaniac]

Are you trying to pick up Sub?

Since Sub is asking this question maybe he's being coy and has someone picked out already.Own up Sub.

Ladies, ladies, ladies. Ahem, I will once again point to what I said in the original post which was

And also, this is just a hypothetical, general what people's feelings are kind of post. So nothing specific. Just wondering cause it seems that if it were me, I may not want to leave my home country.

So no, RueFang, not trying to 'pick up' (well actually costantly trying to pick up, but not the original motivation behind post )and as for you Momo8, nope, has nothing to do with any one particular person, or anything to that effect, just a general thought. Owning up? I do not know the meaning of the words!!! However, I will make you a deal..if you will 'own up' to what kinky thing you wanted hubby to do, I will certainly do the same.

The reality of the situation was just me thinking what I wanted to do with my life, and coming to the conclusion that I probably would be happier in LOS than in the states, which I think alot of people here could understand--since well, they're expats. Then I am thinking, well what if I want to settle down and have a family and everything else...would I want to even raise kids in Thailand (with the education system and all) and would my (future) wife even want to live in LOS.

With me, the real issue is that I am alot more comfortable in English than in Thai. I have done the dating in Thailand thing, but the big hangup for me is whether I want to resort to pantomime and what not the rest of my life. For me, what I would really like is for my (future) wife to also be my best friend (I am strange, eh?). And understanding what I am saying, or thinking, or going through is sort of tied in with that. And for you ladies with Thai (or Chinese husbands) I think you can sort of understanding what I am saying.

Of course I really do not know what the future holds, but I was just curious what everyone's thoughts are. And Kat, you are right, as always...It is up tot he particular people, not the particular circumstances. But there are some people who would be willing to travel to anywhere in the world at the drop of the hat, and others who would never consider moving to another country, even for the right person. I just happen to think there or more of the latter than the former.

And thank you for the replies, and the insights. It is sort of what I thought to. If it were me, I would find it a hard sell to want to move to a totally different country with no support network of friends. If someone asked me to move to Zimbabwe, my first thought would be "why would I want to move to Zimbabwe"? And I am male. Being a woman, I can imagine it being much harder, and it would need to be a very adventurous/brave woman.

Lioness, I can completely understand the situation of trying to get your friends to visit you. Since 1999 I was trying to convince my brother to finally come over. He wanted to come (or so he claims) but the spouse didn't. She is Laotian (which is pretty much Thai) speaks Thai (better than either one of us) but didn't want to go because she thought it was dirty dangerous, polluted, and like going to the jungle. So she finally came in January, and now they want to buy a house in LOS. Funny how things work....

[seonai]

Hey Sub my Mum lives in Zimbabwe and unless you want to visit her you definately DON'T want to go there!!! I am trying to get her out!!!

BTW you sound like a genuinely good bloke

[DirkGently]

No!

It can just be tricky to get them to ignore certain elements of living here.

[donna]

i lived in thailand from 1999 until january this year. for the most part, i loved it. i did find it difficult to make friends here, but i did manage in that time to make some. i had a lot of western women who i worked with who are still great mates, and also some western men.

having said that, i think that it can be a very lonely and isolating place if you dont have friends there. to put it very harshly, and in a very general way, its hard to make friends with western men as they often dont give us the time of day. its hard to meet other western women - but there are organisations such as BNOW which seems pretty good. its difficult to make friends with thai people in general (but i do have a lot of thai friends - more so acquaintances i guess) and i dont know the real reason for this.

things are different in thailand than they are in the west and one of the big reasons is that in the west, work and social time do combine to a certain degree. i used to go out for drinks with people from work, as well as, sometimes, weekends away camping etc. in thailand i found that that didnt really happen. it was just go to work, have lunch, go home and that was that. no social aspect at all.

if you were to take a woman out of her own country and bring her here to live, it would want to be a very strong relationship to start with. having said that, submaniac, you sound like an educated man who actually cares about a woman and who wont be 'struck' by the thai girlies, so i think if you were the man, then it may just be ok.

she will have to have something to do here. lunching and playing tennis (or whatever women who dont work do) would be pretty boring and she will have to have some mental stimulation, so thats a big thing. finding a job isnt that easy for western women, but that would depend on her profession.

i guess im trying to say it isnt easy. if she has the strength to hang in there and the willingness to exlpore other cultures, she will learn to love thailand and its slightly odd ways. if not, she will have a miserable time and run home before too long.

[kat]

Excellent post, Donna. I really regret not meeting you when we were both in LOS. I look forward to meeting up with you when I'm in Asia next. I loved Bali!

[sbk]

Well, have to say kat and donna have said it all. It depends on the person and your relationship with that person. Also how things panned out when you got here. Leave her home alone and you'll find yourself alone pretty soon. Get her involved in the Thai life around her, get her enrolled in Thai lessons so she can communicate, and help her to understand the differences and, assuming you have a woman who is willing to move her life, things should work out.

My husband is Thai, not westernised at all when I met him but he comes from a family that values hard work over image. Weird but true. So, add that to the fact that his father is a very blunt honest man (even by western standards) and I do fine. He appreciates the fact (as do his parents) that I have a mind of my own, am perfectly capable of getting things done and have my own opinions. If you can support your wife in the time it takes for her to build relationships of her own, help her get through the difficulties of adjusting to life here and give her the freedom and opportunity to do for herself (but help her when she needs it), then things should work out.

Of course, this is dependent on finding a woman who will come in the first place. If you love each other enough and are committed enough, and both willing to make the move, then I don't know why that can't happen.

[HomeisThai]

Well, have to say kat and donna have said it all. It depends on the person and your relationship with that person. Also how things panned out when you got here. Leave her home alone and you'll find yourself alone pretty soon. Get her involved in the Thai life around her, get her enrolled in Thai lessons so she can communicate, and help her to understand the differences and, assuming you have a woman who is willing to move her life, things should work out.

Agree with this.

Also I think alot of women enjoy being able to work so I think her being able to come to Thailand and work would account for a big part of whether it would work or not in the long term.

Personally I would love to live in Thailand, and not being able to get decent paid work there is the only reason I am not living there now. However, like someone else said, some people find it weird I travelled alone or went on a 2 week holiday alone, so you can imagine they proberly wouldnt want to do it but they would maybe do a months holiday in a couple.

Different for everyone.

[lioness]

Sorry folks, slightly off the thread, but Donna's post finished by saying, run home before too long.

It is how one views home, is it where for you were raised, or where you last lived, or where your friends or work are? etc etc

For me it has always been wherever I am sleeping at the time. A couple of times in my life, I have lived in a tent for extended periods, that was home. I lived out of my car for some months in Australia once, that was home, lived in a hotel in Scotland for 5 months, that was home, for me home is where my bed is now, not where it used to be.

What about others thoughts of home, maybe this is another subject.

[0Mix1up]

its hard to make friends with western men as they often dont give us the time of day

yes funny how that works in reverse in the west

[Sheryl]

Chosing to live in Thailand is one thing, agreeing to live in a country you may never have even thought of visiting for the sake of a partner is quite another, and may put a strain on the relationship unless the woman's profession and interests are such that it's a good fit for her work-wise and otherwise.

I'd say, come here first and, if you like being here, look for a woman already here who feels the same (no, not me, I'm probably old enough to be your Mom!). Could be a Western woman -- there are more single western women living here than you might think -- or a Thai woman who has spent a lot of time in the west and is, like yourself, bi-cultural....there are many of those, and they often find it hard to relate well to the average Thai man as a result of having adopted western gender roles etc.

[girlx]

actually 17.5 hrs from JFK on TG

yeah if you can afford it!

[bina]

funny timing, this thread.. just got off the phone with a good friend who's husband has just received long awaited his visa to canada (they had once made plans to move to canada which is a safe, modern, western, relaxed country compared to here), which was her dream also (shes rich american style reformed to poor ex kibbutnik style now)... but now the kids are in army, school blablabla so she is agoniizing over if she could actually move to another country again at her age, start over, and leave the (older) kids behind in our crazy screwed up country. this same friend, two years ago was telling me that if anon didnt get his visa, i should get up and go to thailand, leaving my kids and life behind....

a difficult call every time... where is home? who is home?

if u leave home, are u burning your bridges and its a 'never go back' situation or is there fall backs, etc

i think that if a woman is a self contained person i.e. she is her own best friend self reliant, curious and adaptable or flexible, moving to anywhere new can be done. i did it. i moved to a middle eastern war based country because of a husband, and have since made this place my home for good or bad. now i have to constantly think of my future with my country thai husband, whom i feel would like to go back home, since for him, home is deeply rooted in his village. he remains here with me, for my sake, but if i were to say to him, tomorrow we go back to korat, we would be on the next plane, penniless but he would be happy. and i would probably make do...

i've done the lonely new wife in new country deal and survived and developed skills for survival. it wasnt fun. i did the pregnancies in a foreign language and hospital deal , i learned the language, cooking parents' in law routine too. too bad i dint know then what i know now... u just have to find the right person, no rosey glasses, practical, down to earth, adaptable as someone mentioned above. a 'princess' type will fade away real quick....

i think the relationship has to be based on the two people involved w/o lifestyles being used as a criterion, so thta the relationship would survive no matter where u were living or under what circumstances (suddenly dirt poor, or whatever). if u marry eachother because of lifestyle then someone gets surprised later down the line. (as probably happens to many thai women marrying farang men, or vice versa.)

u should be able to deal with each other in a tent, a car, a house, naked and sick, or draped in jewels. in which case it wont matter where u will live. younger women also seem to need their close friends physically close to them (during childrearing etc); i see that as i get older, and of course with email and cell phones, physical proximity is less important then the connection itself.

my long two bits worth

bina

israel

[submaniac]

Very nice post, Bina. Very insightful.

[Jorinda]

When I came back from Thailand to America, many of my friends were amazed that I stayed there so long, let alone just WENT there. I think western women (and men too) have many misconceptions about Asia in general. A lot of them think its diry, over populated, the guys are too short, dangerous, etc. Plus, some don't like the idea of living in another country that has a different language....which I think is not a very good reason in my opinion.

I'm going to have to agree with that. I'm doing the transition process to live in Bkk for 6 months this coming year and all of my friends say things like "Well you have bigger balls than me" "wow, I've only ever been to Canada" "I wouldn't want to travel alone". I'm looking at doing some sort of international career (US Foreign Service, international business, anything) and right now it's nearly impossible to find a boyfriend that will stick with me past college because they all want to stay in America and aren't about to pick up and leave for anyone. You'd have to find a woman who already wants to travel, who likes the new cultures, doesn't have a lot of really, really close friends, and doesn't have anything like a family farm that they're obligated to keep up. Same goes for anyone with rigidly set future plans for their life. There has to be western women out there that fit this criteria, but they're either hiding or already out traveling

So far I've asked every guy I've dated whether they'd join the peace corps with me, and it's always been a resounding NO.