Keeping Ciminals Out Of Thailand

[Deesurin]

After reading all the five pages of post reguarding the arrest of pedophile Steven Prowler and the ensuing debate about ciminals ( teachers or not) being allowed to enter Thaland I was dismayed to find the post closed when I wanted to post my 2 cents.

The idea of keeping all convicted person out of Thailand effects me. I "screwed up" big time 30 years ago,"served time" and have "a record" (fenony). One time,long ago,I am not the "same" person. I came to Thailand to leave the USA because of the bullsh*t I precieve here,meet and married a wonderful Thai lady and after a year came back here ( USA) to get my passport renewed ( which I did)and earn money for a return ( which will take a lot longer,due to this ressesion) Construction in a 14 year low.

Now I have to worry about how and if I can get back because of "my past". Visa blues.

Well just so you all have something to chew on...this country locks up more of it's citizens than ANY country in the world..1 in 100 are "inside right now...how many have already been in ( like me) and out with a "record" I can't say, but my guess is 5 in 100.

What is it I'm supposed to do? Not come back to Thailand and live a happy life with my wife. I don't think so! I'll find a way back.

Any suggestions?

Record-high ratio of Americans in prison

By DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer 22 minutes ago

For the first time in history, more than one in every 100 American adults is in jail or prison, according to a new report tracking the surge in inmate population and urging states to rein in corrections costs with alternative sentencing programs.

The report, released Thursday by the Pew Center on the States, said the 50 states spent more than $49 billion on corrections last year, up from less than $11 billion 20 years earlier. The rate of increase for prison costs was six times greater than for higher education spending, the report said.

Using updated state-by-state data, the report said 2,319,258 adults were held in U.S. prisons or jails at the start of 2008 — one out of every 99.1 adults, and more than any other country in the world.

The steadily growing inmate population "is saddling cash-strapped states with soaring costs they can ill afford and failing to have a clear impact either on recidivism or overall crime," said the report.

Susan Urahn, managing director of the Pew Center on the States, said budget woes are prompting officials in many states to consider new, cost-saving corrections policies that might have been shunned in the recent past for fear of appearing soft in crime.

"We're seeing more and more states being creative because of tight budgets," she said in an interview. "They want to be tough on crime, they want to be a law-and-order state — but they also want to save money, and they want to be effective."

The report cited Kansas and Texas as states which have acted decisively to slow the growth of their inmate population. Their actions include greater use of community supervision for low-risk offenders and employing sanctions other than reimprisonment for ex-offenders who commit technical violations of parole and probation rules.

"The new approach, born of bipartisan leadership, is allowing the two states to ensure they have enough prison beds for violent offenders while helping less dangerous lawbreakers become productive, taxpaying citizens," the report said.

While many state governments have shown bipartisan interest in curbing prison growth, there also are persistent calls to proceed cautiously.

"We need to be smarter," said David Muhlhausen, a criminal justice expert with the conservative Heritage Foundation. "We're not incarcerating all the people who commit serious crimes — but we're also probably incarcerating people who don't need to be."

According to the report, the inmate population increased last year in 36 states and the federal prison system.

The largest percentage increase — 12 percent — was in Kentucky, where Gov. Steve Beshear highlighted the cost of corrections in his budget speech last month. He noted that the state's crime rate had increased only about 3 percent in the past 30 years, while the state's inmate population has increased by 600 percent.

The Pew report was compiled by the Center on the State's Public Safety Performance Project, which is working directly with 13 states on developing programs to divert offenders from prison without jeopardizing public safety.

"For all the money spent on corrections today, there hasn't been a clear and convincing return for public safety," said the project's director, Adam Gelb. "More and more states are beginning to rethink their reliance on prisons for lower-level offenders and finding strategies that are tough on crime without being so tough on taxpayers."

The report said prison growth and higher incarceration rates do not reflect a parallel increase in crime or in the nation's overall population. Instead, it said, more people are behind bars mainly because of tough sentencing measures, such as "three-strikes" laws, that result in longer prison stays.

"For some groups, the incarceration numbers are especially startling," the report said. "While one in 30 men between the ages of 20 and 34 is behind bars, for black males in that age group the figure is one in nine."

The nationwide figures, as of Jan. 1, include 1,596,127 people in state and federal prisons and 723,131 in local jails — a total 2,319,258 out of almost 230 million American adults.

The report said the United States is the world's incarceration leader, far ahead of more populous China with 1.5 million people behind bars. It said the U.S. also is the leader in inmates per capita (750 per 100,000 people), ahead of Russia (628 per 100,000) and other former Soviet bloc nations which make up the rest of the Top 10.

___

On the Net:

http://www.pewcenteronthestates

[Neeranam]

Are you totally rehabilitated?

I ask because there are illegal ways around your predicament.

[Deesurin]

Are you totally rehabilitated?

I ask because there are illegal ways around your predicament.

Well I haven't robbed anyone in 30 years...but you never know?? I have tryed to get "it" sealed ..but to no end.

[GuestHouse]

As you yourself point out, Thailand is a magnet for criminals, anyone who has lived in Thailand these past ten or more years will testify that the numbers of foreign criminals moving to Thailand is on the increase.

There will inevitably be a reaction to this. Changes and or increased enforcement of laws relating to visas and criminal history being an obvious example.

Another change that is already being seen is the image of foreigners as criminals or being involved in criminality - hence the general support among foreigners in Thailand to raise the immigration bar with respect to criminal records.

A point to note is that while Thailand is increasingly attracting criminals, most people who move to Thailand have worked hard, saved hard and never been convicted of much more than a parking offense.

As an aside the US is at the forefront of countries restricting visas to people with past criminal records - It's all part of the way the world is going.

It is also worth noting that in actuality there are very few rights for people to move to live where they wish. These rights were they do exists (for example within the EU) are in themselves restricted to controlled groups of people.

And then let's not forget that while being born in the US and then being convicted of a criminal offense does, for very many people, yourself included, lead to being sent to gaol. The flip side is being born in the US is also, for very many people, yourself included a door way to opportunity of the kind that allowed you to come to Thailand in the first place.

Being born in the vast majority of the rest of world is to be condemned to no options in life - criminal conviction or not.

So while I have some sympathy for your predicament, it is like all such cases, a human story with a human impact.

Just like each case refused entry to the US (have they ever had your thoughts?) and just like with the recession of which you speak the reaction rises against illegal immigrants and foreign workers.

[Robski]

^Good post.

[sriracha john]

After reading all the five pages of post reguarding the arrest of pedophile Steven Prowler and the ensuing debate about ciminals ( teachers or not) being allowed to enter Thaland I was dismayed to find the post closed when I wanted to post my 2 cents.

The idea of keeping all convicted person out of Thailand effects me. I "screwed up" big time 30 years ago,"served time" and have "a record" (fenony). One time,long ago,I am not the "same" person. I came to Thailand to leave the USA because of the bullsh*t I precieve here,meet and married a wonderful Thai lady and after a year came back here ( USA) to get my passport renewed ( which I did)and earn money for a return ( which will take a lot longer,due to this ressesion) Construction in a 14 year low.

Now I have to worry about how and if I can get back because of "my past". Visa blues.

Having a record didn't stop this wanted fugitive (never mind a 3 decade-old ex-con) from criss-crossing all over Southeast Asia, with most of his time in Thailand, for 4 years on a valid passport, visa, and and even a work permit that allowed him to legally work... to make money... to stay in Thailand.

How do they do it? What mechanisms are in place that allows it to occur?

Thaivisa threads:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169632

Requesting Information On Earl Bonds In Phuket

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169360

Suspected American Pedophile Arrested In Phuket

Edited March 5, 2008 by sriracha john

[TheWalkingMan]

I think that eventually it will get to the point where many, many countries will be connected via some type of database containing those who have a conviction. Upon crossing a border your passport is swiped and if you have no convictions then you will be allowed to pass. If you have a conviction you will be turned around.

I read about this guy who was maybe about 50~60 years old or so and had a conviction for vandalism when he was about 18. His punishment was to sweep the parking lot of the local cop shop for a few weekends. Anyway, the guy was crossing the border into Canada and immigration told him to go back to the States. He inquired why has he had been there several times in the past. The agent informed him that the computer had him as an undesirable because of a past conviction, or something like that.

Apparently, many Americans had a rude awakening to that.

Once more and more countries become connected, people with any type of criminal conviction have the potential to be denied entry into another country. Maybe there will be some type of appeal process where if something happened 30 years ago it can be waved or each country will allow people to state their case as to why the should not be banned from entry.

TheWalkingMan

[Ulysses G.]

It is quite easy to enter most countries with a criminal record as long as you don't admit to having one. There is no way for Australia (for example) to gain access to criminal records in America and there likely never will be.

Some places ask if you have a felony conviction on your entry card because they hope to trick you into giving yourself away, but they have no way of finding out otherwise (unless you have done something wrong recently and someone has a warrant out for you, or you make an Official suspicious enough to go through a bunch of trouble to find out).

I have good friends who work in an Australian Embassy and I have heard them discussing this more than once.

It is only economically worthwhile for Governments to refuse people with criminal records a long term visa, but in a country like Thailand they will just get a bunch of short-term visas instead, so it isn't worth bothering.

I would guess that the guy who was barred from Canada did something there, rather than in the U.S., but it is possible that they share more information than other countries since Canadians are just frozen Americans anyway.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[howtoescape]

I think that eventually it will get to the point where many, many countries will be connected via some type of database containing those who have a conviction. Upon crossing a border your passport is swiped and if you have no convictions then you will be allowed to pass. If you have a conviction you will be turned around.

I read about this guy who was maybe about 50~60 years old or so and had a conviction for vandalism when he was about 18. His punishment was to sweep the parking lot of the local cop shop for a few weekends. Anyway, the guy was crossing the border into Canada and immigration told him to go back to the States. He inquired why has he had been there several times in the past. The agent informed him that the computer had him as an undesirable because of a past conviction, or something like that.

Apparently, many Americans had a rude awakening to that.

Once more and more countries become connected, people with any type of criminal conviction have the potential to be denied entry into another country. Maybe there will be some type of appeal process where if something happened 30 years ago it can be waved or each country will allow people to state their case as to why the should not be banned from entry.

TheWalkingMan

That could have come from a George Orwell novel, but your probably on the right lines

[submaniac]

I think that the OP's best bet would be to try and "hide" this from the Thai government. I mean when you arrive to Thailand on the U.S. passport, they do not check, and automatically give you the 30 day visa on arrival. If the issue is trying to obtain an extended stay visa, I really doubt that they would go through the effort of checking. Let's put it like this, I have had to do criminal background searches, and they are not cheap, and I do not think the Thai government will spend the $$ or the effort. If you are really that concerned about it, you could try legally changing your name and on the passport, that would alo lesson the likelihood of anyone catching the previous criminal records. It probaby will cost about $100 if you do the work yourself. Go to the clerk's office of the Superior Court and ask the clerk for the forms. It is a petition that you can fill in yourself. You have to publish it in a newspaper, but that is not hard either. After it is changed, it is unlikely to pull up in a database. Also keep in mind that, yes there are databases, but they are not very airtight, and things slip through fairly easy. Take the Virginia Tech shooter...there were supposed to be databases for anyone declared mentally incompetent, but he managed to buy several guns.

As for expunging or sealing the felony, I do not think that will be easy. A misdemeanor you can expunge fairly simply. For a felony, you are not supposed to be able to do that period. You would first need to have it changed to a misdemeanor, and then try and expunge it after that. But that needs a real lawyer, and it is not a 'for sure' thing a judge will allow you to do it. Even if you do do it, it is not really 'expunged' and is not that hard to find if someone is looking. Try to attempt to purchase a gun after it is expunged and you will find out that it is still there.

I should also say that I am a forgiving type of guy, and I can understand mistakes 30 some years ago. I have never made such mistakes, but I can forgive them. I also think that the American legal system is very screwed up as well, and the likelihood of conviction is not based upon whether you are guilty but whether you are wealthy enough to fight it. The Thai legal system gets knocked about because of its reputation for being able to 'buy' justice, but IMHO, the American legal system is the same, but the only difference is that in the Thai system they don't try to sweep under the rug that a wealthy person is treated differently from a poor person.

[stickman]

Strictly speaking, if you have any conviction that is considered a serious crime in Thailand and / or you spent time in prison in another country, you're not allowed to enter Thailand - but as we all know, there are many, many foreign nationals here with previous convictions.

I think the best thing to do is to play it down and don't mention it to anyone! If Immigration are informed of it then they are bound to act on the information. Loose links sink ships so keep any errors of a wayward past to yourself and with a bit of luck you'll be ok.

[peter991]

Australia started a system in 1990. The aim of the scheme is to prevent discrimination on the basis of certain previous convictions.

Called the Spent Conviction Scheme it allows 'reformed criminals' to put NO on any document asking is they have a criminal past so long as it has been 10 years from the date of the conviction (or 5 years for child offenders).

Does the USA have something similar?

Peter

[Prakanong]

It is quite easy to enter most countries with a criminal record as long as you don't admit to having one. There is no way for Australia (for example) to gain access to criminal records in America and there likely never will be.

Some places ask if you have a felony conviction on your entry card because they hope to trick you into giving yourself away, but they have no way of finding out otherwise (unless you have done something wrong recently and someone has a warrant out for you, or you make an Official suspicious enough to go through a bunch of trouble to find out).

I have good friends who work in an Australian Embassy and I have heard them discussing this more than once.

It is only economically worthwhile for Governments to refuse people with criminal records a long term visa, but in a country like Thailand they will just get a bunch of short-term visas instead, so it isn't worth bothering.

I would guess that the guy who was barred from Canada did something there, rather than in the U.S., but it is possible that they share more information than other countries since Canadians are just frozen Americans anyway.

My best pal from Uni is now a British Deputy Ambassador and this issue came up on conversation also when I visited him in New York when he was posted to the U.N. and we were having a laugh at the questions on the USa entry card.

I asked him out of interest who the UK shared info with and he said "Freindly contries" but would not be more specific. I said I had seen people in newspapers complaining they had been refused entry to the USa for holidays for convictions many years ago but knew for certain someone from my hometown with jail timer for assault and even cannabis convictions had been let in no problem.

My pal just shrugged and said not everything might be passed around - its an awful lot of data.

[Prakanong]

Australia started a system in 1990. The aim of the scheme is to prevent discrimination on the basis of certain previous convictions.

Called the Spent Conviction Scheme it allows 'reformed criminals' to put NO on any document asking is they have a criminal past so long as it has been 10 years from the date of the conviction (or 5 years for child offenders).

Does the USA have something similar?

Peter

In the UK we have something similar - the Rehabilitation of Offenders act (even Singapore has one for non-violent non-drug crimes I think).

It only applies to your own country though as its a domestic law ie applying for visa's and jobs elsewhere that is not covered by dometic la means you have to declare.

[TheWalkingMan]

...

I would guess that the guy who was barred from Canada did something there, rather than in the U.S., but it is possible that they share more information than other countries since Canadians are just frozen Americans anyway.

Cool nick by the way. Frozen Americans... naw... Junior Americans Just kidding Canadians, love those maple syrup cookies.

The guy barred from entering Canada had his conviction in the states... And after a bit of a search, I found a related article. This is not the article I read before.

As the below shows, countries are beginning to share data and are able to determine if someone has a criminal conviction. You can bet that over time the US will connect with more and more countries.

I remember when I first read the article and I thought... Start with Canada, move on to England, Australia and so on. Once those are done, keep marching around the globe until as many countries as possible are connected. Just wait until Thailand gets connected and people start getting pushed back at immigration. That should be good for about 10,000 posts here.

The data is there and the governments just need to do the data mining to make sure everything is nice, neat and easy to view.

Note: The guy with the Jack in the Box was the guy who had to sweep the police parking lot I mentioned in my earlier post.

Here is the link: Convicted in the States and cannot enter Canada

March 05, 2007

Border Crossings A Bust For Busted Boomers

Oh Oh, Canada

By J.D. O'Connor

The barred Yankees, some of whom are already lawyering up over this, are calling themselves "the Inadmissibles" - Canada's term for those with criminal convictions on their record attempting to enter the country.

"What's wrong, though," says one San Francisco resident en route for Whistler/Blackcomb who was recently stopped at the border. "Is that the 'offenses' can be as petty as stealing the clown head from the Jack n' The Box when you were in high school."

For many Americans trying to make it north for their favorite winter ski destinations, the first indication that something may be wrong comes when they are pulled out of a customs line and directed to a secondary "screening area," where pointed questions are asked about past transgressions - many of them long since forgotten.

Lake Tahoe resident Greg Felsch realized something was wrong when he joined a line of other Americans waiting to be questioned by Customs officials.

"There must have been 75 people in line," he told the San Francisco Chronicle. "We were there for three hours. One woman was in tears. A guy was sent back for having a medical marijuana card. I felt like a felon with an ankle bracelet.''

A couple flying to British Columbia for an eight-day ski vacation at the famed Whistler Chateau were surprised when they were approached by Canadian customs officer and the husband told he would have to report to "secondary'' immigration.

There, in a room he estimates was filled with 60 other concerned travelers, he was told he was "a person who was inadmissible to Canada.'' The problem? A 30-year-old conviction for marijuana possession.

The official line from both U.S. and Canadian Customs officials is that the stops are nothing new, but that enhanced intelligence sharing between the two countries post 9/11 and a recently tweaked computer database has caused an "upward trending" in the number of inadmissibles identified and stopped at the border.

None of this is lost on Northern ski destinations like Whistler, which has been enjoying a banner year of snowfall and visitation, but which is 'privately' concerned that well-heeled American boomers may stop coming once they find out Canada frowns on misdeeds committed in their youth.

"The news is just starting to spread," said one British Columbia ski resort manager. "We're only just now beginning to feel the impact this will have but some fear it can result in a 50 percent drop in visits from American guests."

Whether or not dope-smoking, clown-head-stealing Yanks get to ski on his country's slopes or not is of no apparent concern to Derek Mellon, spokesman for the Canadian Border Services Agency.

"I think it is important to understand that you are entering another country,'' Mellon says. "You are not crossing the street.''

Gulp. Sorry, officer. Any way around the law?

Attorneys say ski visitors with blemished records should apply for "a Minister's Approval of Rehabilitation" to wipe their record clear before coming. That applies to DUI convictions, shoplifting, reckless driving, assault - even if they occurred half a lifetime ago. If they're on your record, you won't get in. Period. And if you want to, be prepared to spend some time and money to make it happen.

Written by J.D. O'Connor on March 5, 2007 01:00 AM

TheWalkingMan

[BigSnake]

Who will we keep out next??

[Ulysses G.]

I should also say that I am a forgiving type of guy, and I can understand mistakes 30 some years ago. I have never made such mistakes, but I can forgive them. I also think that the American legal system is very screwed up as well, and the likelihood of conviction is not based upon whether you are guilty but whether you are wealthy enough to fight it. The Thai legal system gets knocked about because of its reputation for being able to 'buy' justice, but IMHO, the American legal system is the same, but the only difference is that in the Thai system they don't try to sweep under the rug that a wealthy person is treated differently from a poor person.

All true, and imagine having to suffer all of your life for smoking a joint or cashing a bad check in your younger days. Who wouldn't feel angry about that? The Australian system makes much more sense and no America doesn't have anything simular.

peter991 Posted Today, 2008-03-05 11:15:55

Australia started a system in 1990. The aim of the scheme is to prevent discrimination on the basis of certain previous convictions.

Called the Spent Conviction Scheme it allows 'reformed criminals' to put NO on any document asking is they have a criminal past so long as it has been 10 years from the date of the conviction (or 5 years for child offenders).

Does the USA have something similar?

Peter

[Smithson]

Australia started a system in 1990. The aim of the scheme is to prevent discrimination on the basis of certain previous convictions.

Called the Spent Conviction Scheme it allows 'reformed criminals' to put NO on any document asking is they have a criminal past so long as it has been 10 years from the date of the conviction (or 5 years for child offenders).

Does the USA have something similar?

Peter

Interesting scheme, however it seems anyone can (and would) put 'No' on a form if they new there was never to be a check, which in most cases there won't be.

Under the Australian system, what if someone has past the 10 yr period, puts 'No' and then a check is done? Will it come back clear? Does is depend on the severity of the crime?

[Prakanong]

Australia started a system in 1990. The aim of the scheme is to prevent discrimination on the basis of certain previous convictions.

Called the Spent Conviction Scheme it allows 'reformed criminals' to put NO on any document asking is they have a criminal past so long as it has been 10 years from the date of the conviction (or 5 years for child offenders).

Does the USA have something similar?

Peter

Interesting scheme, however it seems anyone can (and would) put 'No' on a form if they new there was never to be a check, which in most cases there won't be.

Under the Australian system, what if someone has past the 10 yr period, puts 'No' and then a check is done? Will it come back clear? Does is depend on the severity of the crime?

In the UK it does depend on the severity of the crime but there are jobs ie working with children, where all convictions will be divulged during any check.

If you were going for an ordinary job say in a factory warehouse and you were fined for say shoplifting 10+ years ago I do not think it would show up on the lowest level of criminal records check.

Someone will know better than I about this though - I only know what I pick up from media etc.

[Smithson]

In the UK it does depend on the severity of the crime but there are jobs ie working with children, where all convictions will be divulged during any check.

If you were going for an ordinary job say in a factory warehouse and you were fined for say shoplifting 10+ years ago I do not think it would show up on the lowest level of criminal records check.

Someone will know better than I about this though - I only know what I pick up from media etc.

I was wondering in the context of the OP, what about if somebody would need a police clearance for a teaching job over here?

Also, in an earlier post you mention that Thailand that foreign criminals are coming to Thailand in increasing numbers. I doubt there's been any studies, but I would tend to disagree. In the 15 years I've been here they've been catching all sorts of wnated ppl on a regular basis. But as far as career criminals coming here and doing their business, I'd say it's dropped. Thailand is much less tolerant of this type of thing.

International databases have improved a lot since 9/11, along with Thai immigration databases, which would explain why many more wanted ppl are getting caught.

[t.s]

After reading all the five pages of post reguarding the arrest of pedophile Steven Prowler and the ensuing debate about ciminals ( teachers or not) being allowed to enter Thaland I was dismayed to find the post closed when I wanted to post my 2 cents.

The idea of keeping all convicted person out of Thailand effects me. I "screwed up" big time 30 years ago,"served time" and have "a record" (fenony). One time,long ago,I am not the "same" person. I came to Thailand to leave the USA because of the bullsh*t I precieve here,meet and married a wonderful Thai lady and after a year came back here ( USA) to get my passport renewed ( which I did)and earn money for a return ( which will take a lot longer,due to this ressesion) Construction in a 14 year low.

Now I have to worry about how and if I can get back because of "my past". Visa blues.

Having a record didn't stop this wanted fugitive (never mind a 3 decade-old ex-con) from criss-crossing all over Southeast Asia, with most of his time in Thailand, for 4 years on a valid passport, visa, and and even a work permit that allowed him to legally work... to make money... to stay in Thailand.

How do they do it? What mechanisms are in place that allows it to occur?

Thaivisa threads:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169632

Requesting Information On Earl Bonds In Phuket

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169360

Suspected American Pedophile Arrested In Phuket

wherte does it say he was either "wanted" or a "fugitive". it clearly says he did his time. there is nothing fugitive about his travels

[Prakanong]

Hi Smithson

I am not sure but on a personal level I think you are only able to apply and get the police clearence at the lowest level and it has to be an institution or employer that applies for the higher level one that goes into everything.

(Then again there is something you can apply for emigration purposes though but I am unsure what that is)

It was not me that said foreign criminlas were coming to Thailand in greater numbers above.

I think they actually are though as the visiter numbers have risen and the UK guys would go to Spain in the past but no thailand is seen as more likely. - doubt they are all practicing their trade though but just visiting or keeping a low profile.

I agree with you regarding databases ar getting better - memory and computing power has dropped by a factor to make this more possible plus as you say 9/11. Would this be more for fugitives though or for those with a past history - unless applying for PR or Citizenship i do not think Thailand bothers unless asked?

Edited March 5, 2008 by Prakanong

[peter991]

International databases have improved a lot since 9/11, along with Thai immigration databases, which would explain why many more wanted ppl are getting caught.

Interesting point you have raised there. Last trip into Thailand, joined the queue at Passport Control, Suvarnabhumi Airport. I filled out my Arrivals Card on the plane, has my passport and boarding card ready. A very officious Immigration Officer was checking Arrivals Cards before people stepped up to the Passport Control counters.

He insisted the 'Where Are You Staying' lines were filled in. Too bad if you had just flown into Bangkok and intended to pick a hotel when you cleared Passport Control! A few from my plane just put in 'Bangkok Hotel,' Sukhumwit as their intended address.

Theoretically, within 12 or 24 hours of a foreigner checking into any accommodation in Thailand, isn't the Manager supposed to notify the police or Immigration Department of the name, nationality and passport numbers of all guests?

How many cross-checks are done?

Peter

[Smithson]

It was not me that said foreign criminlas were coming to Thailand in greater numbers above.

I think they actually are though as the visiter numbers have risen and the UK guys would go to Spain in the past but no thailand is seen as more likely. - doubt they are all practicing their trade though but just visiting or keeping a low profile.

You are probably right, I suppose it depends on definitions, do we mean people doing criminal activity here, criminals taking a 'break from work' or those on the run. I was referring to the first example.

[ClaytonSeymour]

In the UK it does depend on the severity of the crime but there are jobs ie working with children, where all convictions will be divulged during any check.

If you were going for an ordinary job say in a factory warehouse and you were fined for say shoplifting 10+ years ago I do not think it would show up on the lowest level of criminal records check.

Someone will know better than I about this though - I only know what I pick up from media etc.

I was wondering in the context of the OP, what about if somebody would need a police clearance for a teaching job over here?

Also, in an earlier post you mention that Thailand that foreign criminals are coming to Thailand in increasing numbers. I doubt there's been any studies, but I would tend to disagree. In the 15 years I've been here they've been catching all sorts of wnated ppl on a regular basis. Perhaps the reason they are catching so many, is a result of the large numbers that are actually coming. I suspect the percentage being caught is much lower than those evading detection. But as far as career criminals coming here and doing their business, I'd say it's dropped. Thailand is much less tolerant of this type of thing.

International databases have improved a lot since 9/11, along with Thai immigration databases, which would explain why many more wanted ppl are getting caught.

I know this has been asked before but, at what point do the authorities of a country i.e. UK, deny or revoke an individuals entitlement to a passport? I've always got the impression that despite having the authority to do this, it's very seldom put into practice.

[madjbs]

In the UK there is 3 ways to check your record. The first is the 10 quid method where you have to send a form off to your local police station, in the U.K it is not legal for anyone to request this check as it shows up spent convictions, it is meant for your own use only. The second is only open to registered U.K companies and does not show spent convictions. The third is the same as the second except it can be requested by individuals, the name is Scotland Disclosure. This is the best method and is what should be used when providing a record to Thai Immigration or what have you. If immigration start to request the police station check it will be very unfortunate for a lot of people.

[ZZZ]

Most of the foreign criminals cough here in Thailand seem to come from Euroland or US and travel here on their original passport, some of them are even on a wanted list in their home country.

Why do they still have their passport???

Why is there no check in Euroland and US when you leave the country, anyone can leave without any problems as there is no check on exit. I have no idea how, if ever, they catch anyone overstaying a visa there??

[Prakanong]

In the UK it does depend on the severity of the crime but there are jobs ie working with children, where all convictions will be divulged during any check.

If you were going for an ordinary job say in a factory warehouse and you were fined for say shoplifting 10+ years ago I do not think it would show up on the lowest level of criminal records check.

Someone will know better than I about this though - I only know what I pick up from media etc.

I was wondering in the context of the OP, what about if somebody would need a police clearance for a teaching job over here?

Also, in an earlier post you mention that Thailand that foreign criminals are coming to Thailand in increasing numbers. I doubt there's been any studies, but I would tend to disagree. In the 15 years I've been here they've been catching all sorts of wnated ppl on a regular basis. Perhaps the reason they are catching so many, is a result of the large numbers that are actually coming. I suspect the percentage being caught is much lower than those evading detection. But as far as career criminals coming here and doing their business, I'd say it's dropped. Thailand is much less tolerant of this type of thing.

International databases have improved a lot since 9/11, along with Thai immigration databases, which would explain why many more wanted ppl are getting caught.

I know this has been asked before but, at what point do the authorities of a country i.e. UK, deny or revoke an individuals entitlement to a passport? I've always got the impression that despite having the authority to do this, it's very seldom put into practice.

I think its only done for football hooligans - I do not know of any other cases

I do know that people who are on life licences ie they have been given a life sentence and parroled are meant to get their Probation Officers permission to go oversea's or get a passport but I do not know if there is any contact with passport issuing authorities.

[sriracha john]

After reading all the five pages of post reguarding the arrest of pedophile Steven Prowler and the ensuing debate about ciminals ( teachers or not) being allowed to enter Thaland I was dismayed to find the post closed when I wanted to post my 2 cents.

The idea of keeping all convicted person out of Thailand effects me. I "screwed up" big time 30 years ago,"served time" and have "a record" (fenony). One time,long ago,I am not the "same" person. I came to Thailand to leave the USA because of the bullsh*t I precieve here,meet and married a wonderful Thai lady and after a year came back here ( USA) to get my passport renewed ( which I did)and earn money for a return ( which will take a lot longer,due to this ressesion) Construction in a 14 year low.

Now I have to worry about how and if I can get back because of "my past". Visa blues.

Having a record didn't stop this wanted fugitive (never mind a 3 decade-old ex-con) from criss-crossing all over Southeast Asia, with most of his time in Thailand, for 4 years on a valid passport, visa, and and even a work permit that allowed him to legally work... to make money... to stay in Thailand.

How do they do it? What mechanisms are in place that allows it to occur?

Thaivisa threads:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169632

Requesting Information On Earl Bonds In Phuket

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169360

Suspected American Pedophile Arrested In Phuket

wherte does it say he was either "wanted" or a "fugitive". it clearly says he did his time. there is nothing fugitive about his travels

He didn't do any time... He's not even been to trial...

Post #4 of the 2nd link:

He was charged in St Louis in Oct 2004 with 4 counts of sodomy on a juvenile under 14 years old. A month after posting $10,000 bail and while awaiting trial, he fled the area.

He's been bebopping around Asia, mainly Thailand, in all the interim since fleeing the charges in 2004, working variously as a teacher and writer and working with a hotel-reservation company.

*edit.

I suspect now that you might have been referring to the OP... which I didn't mean to associate with this post other than to point out that his 30-year old conviction shouldn't impede his travel, considering this example of someone with current charges seemingly able to travel so freely.

Edited March 5, 2008 by sriracha john

[mikethevigoman]

It is quite easy to enter most countries with a criminal record as long as you don't admit to having one. There is no way for Australia (for example) to gain access to criminal records in America and there likely never will be.

Some places ask if you have a felony conviction on your entry card because they hope to trick you into giving yourself away, but they have no way of finding out otherwise (unless you have done something wrong recently and someone has a warrant out for you, or you make an Official suspicious enough to go through a bunch of trouble to find out).

I have good friends who work in an Australian Embassy and I have heard them discussing this more than once.

It is only economically worthwhile for Governments to refuse people with criminal records a long term visa, but in a country like Thailand they will just get a bunch of short-term visas instead, so it isn't worth bothering.

I would guess that the guy who was barred from Canada did something there, rather than in the U.S., but it is possible that they share more information than other countries since Canadians are just frozen Americans anyway.

My best pal from Uni is now a British Deputy Ambassador and this issue came up on conversation also when I visited him in New York when he was posted to the U.N. and we were having a laugh at the questions on the USa entry card.

I asked him out of interest who the UK shared info with and he said "Freindly contries" but would not be more specific. I said I had seen people in newspapers complaining they had been refused entry to the USa for holidays for convictions many years ago but knew for certain someone from my hometown with jail timer for assault and even cannabis convictions had been let in no problem.

My pal just shrugged and said not everything might be passed around - its an awful lot of data.

I flew to florida in 92 with a girlfriend for a 2 week holiday, on the plane i filled out the visa waiver form, it asked have you been convicted of a crime, answered yes in 1972 for driving whilst disqualified,when the form was handed in at immigration i was refused entry and i was sent back to gatwick on the same plane,. we then bought tickets for toronto and got into canada no problem, i will never reveal that info on a form again,