Fa Cup Devalued

[R123]

Happy to congratulate unreservedly the likes of Barnsley and Portsmouth but surely the "big 4" have again revealed that their priority is a top 4 finish Premier League finish and/or significant progress in the Champions League.

Either is better it seems in their view than even winning one or even both of the domestic cups.

Do you agree or not?

Edited March 9, 2008 by R123

[mrbojangles]

Do you agree or not?

I thought both Chelsea and Man U tried their hardest to win the games and they where both gutted that they lost. The beauty of the FA cup is about small teams knocking big one's out.

[redrus]

Do you agree or not?

I thought both Chelsea and Man U tried their hardest to win the games and they where both gutted that they lost. The beauty of the FA cup is about small teams knocking big one's out.

Cock on, as per guvner....!

redrus

[mrtoad]

No way did Man Utd or Chelsea show any l;ack of desire to win, or lack of respect to the cup. Fergies reaction to the result was terstamant to that. What we are getting this year are a few fairy tale cup runs, which will only continue to add to the magic of the FA Cup.

Well done to Barnsley and Pompey, and it looks like Cardiff are gong to make a good go of it to, 2-0 up at present!

[Pattaya_Fox]

What magnificent defending in the latter stages from Barnsley.

It is a performance like this which enhances the spirit of the FA Cup and is what the competition is all about.

Try as hard as they could Chelsea had no answer to the brave tenacity of these Yorkshire lads.

[delboy]

Try as hard as they could Chelsea had no answer to the brave tenacity of these Yorkshire lads.

Not one of the Barnsley team was a Yorkshireman, they were born in places like Rotterdam, Sao Paulo, Jamaica, Nigeria, and Hungary.

I'm not knocking their performance, the better team won, but I don't think I'll be looking forward to a Cardiff v West Brom final.

The big clubs are only interested in the competition for the money it generates. The English players do realise what it still means to the supporters, but to the foreign players, it's a nothing competition.

[howtoescape]

The big clubs are only interested in the competition for the money it generates.

You mean franchises such as Man U and Liverpool, i thought it was great when there respective new directors referred to their new clubs in this way.

[suegha]

It all went wrong when West Brom beat Bristol then???

[mysterytrevor]

My opinion is that the gap between what was a monopoly by the likes of Arsenal and Man U was broken by Chelsea and now a lot of the smaller clubs are making significant progress. A lot of money has gone into Portsmouth Man City etc and the quality in the Championship is improving. Hopefully soon the days of the same teams winning everything will be over.

[mr_hippo]

R123, why do you think that the FA Cup is devalued and is now a Mickey Mouse competition? It is, in my opinion, possibly, the hardest domestic competition to win. With a league competition, you are playing with your peers, you know their style of play/speed, you know that state of the pitch, you are familiar with the opposition and almost 40 chances to get to the top. With the FA cup, you have one chance to get it right or else you are eliminated (Yes, I do know that there are replays in case of a draw). Let's pretend that my local club, Prescot Cables - currently 12th in the Unibond league - do extremely well next season, qualify for the FA Cup 1st round and win, also win in round 2 and then face Arsenal in round 3. What hope do Cables have of winning? Possibly 2 - no hope and Bob Hope and he's dead! Arsenal - put a reserve team , won't have to try too hard, 'it's a training session. Cables - Wow! Chance to be seen on TV, possibly only time I'll play on a 'proper' ground We've got nothing to lose so go for it! This is the FA Cup, dreams and nightmares happen!

So, the 'big four' are out - this enhances the competition and not devalues it. By the way, Cables have competed in the FA cup 1st round proper - losing to Hartlepool in 57/58 and Darlington in 59/60.

Edited March 10, 2008 by mr_hippo

[R123]

Some interesting postings here, so well done to all - and mr-hippo good luck to the Cables team. To answer your question it seemed to me that Arsenal, for example, had there minds on on other matters when they played in the game which knocked them out of the Cup, and they did not have their strongest side out; also Liverpool may have had their attentions on other games when they went down to Barnsley. I did not see the Chelsea match and accept that Man U tried very hard to win against Portsmouth and were unlucky in some ways by going out. All that said I do get the impression that despite what these teams may say otherwise, finance dictates that the priority for the big 4 is the Premiership and the Champions League.

Whether you are right about the Big 4 going out enhancing the FA Cup competition, well, we shall see!

[howtoescape]

It was devalued by Man U dropping out to play in some world tournament a few year ago, and with foreign managers not caring about it most notably Wenger and Benitez and playing weakened sides.

But <deleted> them few franchise teams, every fan from every other team would love to win it.

The only tournament not worth bothering about in 2008 is the European Championships.

[kopite]

It was devalued by Man U dropping out to play in some world tournament a few year ago, and with foreign managers not caring about it most notably Wenger and Benitez and playing weakened sides.

But <deleted> them few franchise teams, every fan from every other team would love to win it.

The only tournament not worth bothering about in 2008 is the European Championships.

would this be the same rafa benitez that won the F.A cup two years ago? and what is a franchise team exactly?

Edited March 10, 2008 by kopite

[mr_hippo]

The only tournament not worth bothering about in 2008 is the European Championships.

Why not?

United caused considerable controversy in 1999-2000 when they failed to enter the FA Cup, instead electing to take part in the inaugural FIFA Club World Championship, played in Brazil. United became the first FA Cup holders not to defend their title.

United claim to have been pressured by the Labour Government of the day, along with The FA, who felt that having English representation in the FIFA competition might assist an English attempt to host the 2006 FIFA World Cup. Whether this decision boosted the English Bid's chances is uncertain, but either way, the plan failed, and Germany was nominated as the World Cup Host Nation, beating South Africa into second place.

Unfortunately the quote is from Wikipedia The FA Cup since 1999

Do all managers play their 'strongest' team all the time? - No. Do all players always give it 100%? Anyone remember Calamity James and Lara Croft?

If you want to read a fictional account of the FA Cup, try "How Steeple Sinderby Wanderers Won the F.A. Cup" by JL Carr - still in print.

[johniescfc]

the big 4 wanted to win the fa cup and i am glad they got knocked out.wdst brom didnt field their strongest team and won.60 million quid for promotion and west brom won against bristol rovers.about time the big boys werecut down and congrats to cardiff,west brom and barnsley from a stokie fan.

ps

hope you are all knackered for the run in lol.

[MSingh]

I disagree, with the team Chelsea out out on Saturday, they wanted to win that, same with United, Aresenal got knocked out by United, Liverpool are the only ones i'm not convinced about wanting to win it, i don't think Rafa would have the competition on his list of priorites personally especuially as he has won it before also..

I think it has been fantastic this year & that's coming from someone who's team got knocked out inthe 3rd round, it has to b e the season with the most shocks, surely ??

[mr_hippo]

howtoescape: As a United supporter, I agree that Sir Alice did not field his strongest team against Pompey. What was he thinking by putting those 'B' team players - Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez - in the starting line up? Whatever you are smoking or drinking, can I have some?

[nev]

has a united fan too i was gutted united tried everything 2 of the line hit the post any other day could have gone in,so how did united devalue the cup.

also i am with kopite what is a franchise teams ? over 100 years of history for united arsenal and liverpool to be called a franchise.

[mrtoad]

has a united fan too i was gutted united tried everything 2 of the line hit the post any other day could have gone in,so how did united devalue the cup.

also i am with kopite what is a franchise teams ? over 100 years of history for united arsenal and liverpool to be called a franchise.

I think it was a Newrcirus fan who was suggesting the Franchise thing. Pretty ridiculous, considering what a Franchise team actually is.

As for United pulling out in 99/00 that was entirely due to pressure from the FA and the governemnt, and had very little to do with United's respect towards the cup. Afterall, they certainly would have wanted to defend it as Champions.

[oldgit]

One things for certain,the bookmakers have absolutely coined it on this years competition.

[howtoescape]

Here is a quote from George Gillett calling Liverpool a franchise, Man Us owner said the same thing but im to lazy to look for the quote.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverp...64375-20442087/

Mr Hippo, I know Man U put a strong team out at the weekend, but if they had a Champions League game mid week it would have been a weakened team, Man U v Arsenal in the cup a few weeks ago is proof of this, when both teams rested their stars.

Lets face it for the owners, managers and players football is just a gravy train they care about what pays the most and that is the Premier League and the Champions League.

Man U pulling out of the Cup was down to money, and Blatters idea to make FIFA more money directly, though the fans did protest against it.

NUFC have devalued all tournaments by playing a weakened team in every competition.

[kopite]

Here is a quote from George Gillett calling Liverpool a franchise, Man Us owner said the same thing but im to lazy to look for the quote.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverp...64375-20442087/

Mr Hippo, I know Man U put a strong team out at the weekend, but if they had a Champions League game mid week it would have been a weakened team, Man U v Arsenal in the cup a few weeks ago is proof of this, when both teams rested their stars.

Lets face it for the owners, managers and players football is just a gravy train they care about what pays the most and that is the Premier League and the Champions League.

Man U pulling out of the Cup was down to money, and Blatters idea to make FIFA more money directly, though the fans did protest against it.

NUFC have devalued all tournaments by playing a weakened team in every competition.

so when DIC buy liverpool does that mean we are no longer a franchise?

george gillett did call liverpool a franchise, but straight away apoligised and said "i meant club".

very strange reason to have a dig at the top of league when your working your way down to the bottom. i remember newcastle trying to make themselves into a "franchise" the last time the messiah was manager.

and as far as united go, they had every right to pull out the cup that year. the FA were putting pressure on them and at the end of the day they really didnt have any choice.

however your last sentence has just made me spit beer all over the screen. howtoescape how do you think the season wil finish for you lot?

[howtoescape]

I think we'll be just about ok, we've got 3 of the bottom teams to come to St James's and only have to play Brum away, which is a must not lose game.

But i am still of the opinion that the FA cup has been devalued from what it was lets say 15 years ago, because the best teams do play weakened teams in it and prioritise the Champions League above it. Whereas before the European Cup and the FA Cup would have been on a par.

[Spit the Dog]

I think it was a Newrcirus fan who was suggesting the Franchise thing. Pretty ridiculous, considering what a Franchise team actually is.

A Newcirus fan? What's this? A fan of thick wispy clouds? I always prefer cumulonimbus clouds myself.

In all seriousness, I think that the FA Cup has been great this year. To see Barnsley beat Liverpool and then Chelsea was fantastic. Even though Liverpool weren't at full strength, every one of the Liverpool players with exception of the keeper, would walk straight into Barnsley's first team. After these two great achievements, they'll probably go a lose to Cardiff in the semis now.

After watching the Man Utd v Pompey game, you get the feeling that Pompey's name are on the cup. The combination of luck and terrific defending got them past a Man utd team that wanted to win. You could see from Fergie's face at the end of the game how much defeat hurt him. I think most football fans wouldn't begrudge Harry Redknapp finally winning a major trophy.

[Prakanong]

Do you agree or not?

I thought both Chelsea and Man U tried their hardest to win the games and they where both gutted that they lost. The beauty of the FA cup is about small teams knocking big one's out.

I agree with you and if you heard the comments of the management and fans afterwards they certainly wanted to win it.

I think its good that some unfancied teams are through

The 606 phone in had some statistic about there being only one final since XXXX that did not have a London, Liverpool or Manchester team was 1973 Sunderland vs Leeds until this one

[Prakanong]

It was devalued by Man U dropping out to play in some world tournament a few year ago, and with foreign managers not caring about it most notably Wenger and Benitez and playing weakened sides.

But <deleted> them few franchise teams, every fan from every other team would love to win it.

The only tournament not worth bothering about in 2008 is the European Championships.

To be fair to Man U it was the English FA and other pressures that made them go to the Brazil tournament in the hope of votes for an England World Cup - it was sports politics.

Same as we paid for Peter Withes salary as manager of Thaliand in exchange for their vote (which we did not get but it did not matter by then)

[nev]

has a united fan too i was gutted united tried everything 2 of the line hit the post any other day could have gone in,so how did united devalue the cup.

also i am with kopite what is a franchise teams ? over 100 years of history for united arsenal and liverpool to be called a franchise.

I think it was a Newrcirus fan who was suggesting the Franchise thing. Pretty ridiculous, considering what a Franchise team actually is.

As for United pulling out in 99/00 that was entirely due to pressure from the FA and the governemnt, and had very little to do with United's respect towards the cup. Afterall, they certainly would have wanted to defend it as Champions.

mr toad and united ask for a bye to the next round but the fa would not allow this,united could have played a reserve side while over there which would have devauled the cup but chose not too.

[mrbojangles]

so when DIC buy liverpool does that mean we are no longer a franchise?

Looks like that is off the table now. Must be frustrating for Liverpool fans, as you know he wants to sell it and get out.

[chavy]

DIC are still interested to do business MrBJ !! according to the net that is.

[mrbojangles]

DIC are still interested to do business MrBJ !! according to the net that is.

Are they? It said on the Beeb this morning that Hicks has ended negotiation's. Could be a ploy to get them on the defensive.

Then he will spring........................... and nic their hub caps