Why The Wai

[huggybear]

Well, it happened again..........

I was entering Central and the falang guy entering before me, as the doorman was saluting him, gives the guard a wai. I guess it's better to have polite tourists than the drunken Bangla nightmare tourist but I still wanted to say to the guy "why the wai"?

So I will open a discussion here on what I do regarding the wai, and you guys can pipe in with, "yeah, you are just as ludicrous as the falang at Central" or, "no I wouldn't do that","this is what I do", etc.

First, while working: when one of my staff wais me (as I am the boss) I just nod, do not wai back and reply with a sawatdee khrap. When it is all of the staff waiing me or a bunch anyway, I make my wai at about chest level, slight nod and a sawatdee khrap to all.

My customers:when a Thai and older than I, and a prominant business person, I initiate the wai and it's closer to my nose, my head definitely bowing a little. When the customer is professionally not at my level I do not initiate but definitely return the wai if they initiate.

Not working: Thai people I know, if they wai, I wai back, for sure. If I happen to meet a girl who I like and she introduces her parents, yes, there I would wai the parents.

Monks? Do you wai a monk if they are waiing you? I'm not Buddhist although I like a lot of the tenets. Does it matter? Mandatory or reincarnation is out for sure?

Anyway, I know I could probably use the search mechanism, but after the Ping/ZPete saga I thought I'd throw something out there that might end up being useful to somebody. Maybe the guy who did the wai to the saluting doorman will see it.

[thaiclan]

My Thai friend is 60, very rich and very powerful. Employs at least 300 people and I have seen him wai everyone whoever wais to him - cleaners to GM's.....

[jdinasia]

done to death a million times.

I rarely Wai and suggest that people that do not understand it never do or only do when dealing with Monks and very senior Thais (status not age nec) that they are having direct dealings with. I have had monks accept a wai (like you describe doing with staff) but never wai me that I can remember. (and I am around monks often).

The foriegner equivalent, using a nod, suffices in almost every situation.

This week my "tourist making a tit out of himself" spotting was of a guy wai'ing incorrectly at the shrine in Siam Sq next to the starbucks. It actually made a couple of the Chula students sitting with me giggle

[barky]

Well, it happened again..........

I was entering Central and the falang guy entering before me, as the doorman was saluting him, gives the guard a wai. I guess it's better to have polite tourists than the drunken Bangla nightmare tourist but I still wanted to say to the guy "why the wai"?

So I will open a discussion here on what I do regarding the wai, and you guys can pipe in with, "yeah, you are just as ludicrous as the falang at Central" or, "no I wouldn't do that","this is what I do", etc.

First, while working: when one of my staff wais me (as I am the boss) I just nod, do not wai back and reply with a sawatdee khrap. When it is all of the staff waiing me or a bunch anyway, I make my wai at about chest level, slight nod and a sawatdee khrap to all.

My customers:when a Thai and older than I, and a prominant business person, I initiate the wai and it's closer to my nose, my head definitely bowing a little. When the customer is professionally not at my level I do not initiate but definitely return the wai if they initiate.

Not working: Thai people I know, if they wai, I wai back, for sure. If I happen to meet a girl who I like and she introduces her parents, yes, there I would wai the parents.

Monks? Do you wai a monk if they are waiing you? I'm not Buddhist although I like a lot of the tenets. Does it matter? Mandatory or reincarnation is out for sure?

Anyway, I know I could probably use the search mechanism, but after the Ping/ZPete saga I thought I'd throw something out there that might end up being useful to somebody. Maybe the guy who did the wai to the saluting doorman will see it.

As it's not my culture, I don't feel I have to Wai anyboby. That being said, I always acknowledge anyone who happens to Wai me, usually by simply nodding my head and sometimes adding a sawat di krap. I am not obliged to Wai anyone younger than me, so I don't. I rarely Wai my inlaws, but I always bow my head to them with a sawat di krap out of respect. Under no cicumstance would I Wai anybody with my hands higher than my chin level.

[azzamacman]

I didn't think monks wai , but I would wai a monk ( high wai big bow ) But hey, I'm just another Farang what would I know.

Edited March 11, 2008 by azzamacman

[amanda76]

I was told that the Wai orignated from India. It is like a way of being humble.

I Wai everybody. Why is this even a topic?

Would you not wave to me if I waved to you, regardless of who makes more?

I wai my maid. If you don't want to, don't, but we are not Thai, so who cares

if we look appropriate? We are guests, and regardless how long someone has been here

we are all Falang Tourists. I love to Wai people.

Thanks for bringing up such a redundant topic.

What about the American Retiree looking for friends?

Most of the topics here are silly.

~a~

[eek]

I realise this topic has been done to the death, but at the same turn, its still a topic that interests many of us and a difficult one to understand, so of course it crops up in different ways. Personally i find it useful to read different perspectives on things. You can always choose not to read the topic.

If non-thais to have a "do whatever you want" attitude, and im not knocking that, but at the same time i wouldnt say the topic is silly. Personally in other parts of the world, I dont go around shaking hands with everyone..is the Wai not somewhat equivalent to a handshake rather than a wave hello? I do not enjoy embarresing myself or others by making social faux pas, so yes, i try to be as informed as possible, and yes, i would rather not wai (if i am not clear how to respond) than cause embarressment to myself or others. But, I always nod, and I think I have a reasonable grasp of the 3 hand placements and when I most definately should use them, as a kind Thai friend taught me early on. Im sure i will make mistakes but hopefully will be forgiven. Truthfully I think if a person were to go around wai-ing everyone and at the same height level for all, i think it would cause quite a bit of embarresment to the Thai friend(s) or partner he/she was with. I would also hate to be the butt of jokes because of my "stupid farang" behaviour. But then again, im a fairly self-concious person..

Well, this was just in response to the notion that these topics are silly and not worth reading, personally I and im sure many others find them useful. If you dont like them, dont read them

Edited March 11, 2008 by eek

[huggybear]

I was told that the Wai orignated from India. It is like a way of being humble.

I Wai everybody. Why is this even a topic?

Would you not wave to me if I waved to you, regardless of who makes more?

I wai my maid. If you don't want to, don't, but we are not Thai, so who cares

if we look appropriate? We are guests, and regardless how long someone has been here

we are all Falang Tourists. I love to Wai people.

Thanks for bringing up such a redundant topic.

What about the American Retiree looking for friends?

Most of the topics here are silly.

~a~

Here ya go, don't go waiing everybody.......

http://www.track-of-the-tiger.com/html/the_thai_wai.html

[seonai]

Don't forget the southerners. Amogst the Thai Muslims it is not at all appropriate to wai, touching the other persons hands between your hands then touching the chest (yours) with an open palm will suffice

Edited March 11, 2008 by seonai

[WOOHOO]

I would say my understanding of the wai is exactly the same as the OP's. I can't say that I find it as bad as others though, when the tourist steps of the plane and wais every man and his dog. People who come on a 2 week beach holiday can't be expected to understand the culture fully. If anything, you could say they are guilty of being over polite, which is undoubtedly preferable to the way some tourists behave. I don't think the Thais are offended in the slightest either, they just accept that tourists are tourists and don't know any better. What I do find slightly curious is the poster who appears to have been here for a very long time but says he 'rarely wais anybody'. surely that's just plain ignorance.

P.S Very confused as to why so many people who think threads are 'silly' or 'been done to death a million times' yet still spend time reading them and then replying to them as well!!! Surely your time could be spent more productively elsewhere.

[BigSnake]

Wai is a great tradition, it shows Respect for this Host country. Beside there are lots of Germs on the Hands.

[LivinginKata]

Even after 12 years living & working here full time in Thailand I find the Wai subject most tricky. I would not normally Wai staff or service people on a regular basis. If a Thai Wai's me then I will reciprocate, at a suitable level of the hands. I only Wai a Thai if I've been really impressed by that peron's manners and my Wai's are usually spontaneous and meaningfull. I doubt if I'll ever get it right, but I do try.

[fiddlehead]

Wai is a great tradition, it shows Respect for this Host country. Beside there are lots of Germs on the Hands.

I agree! Respect is something that is missing in the western world and i enjoy this method of showing or receiving respect.

I have learned from my wife that sometimes i do not wai the right people. Like never wai someone younger than you unless they are your kids school teacher, or doctor, or a monk. And wai back when they do it first. (maybe not young kids)

I love when my 2 year old wais people and am looking forward to the day when i take him to meet his relatives in America and he will most likely shock them my doing it everytime he says thank you besides the greetings.

We could all learn something from it.

For the person who thinks its a silly, useless subject, well perhaps his/her mind is closed already and if so, that's sad.

Learning other peoples customs and cultures is one of the most important parts about traveling. IMO of course.

[ade100]

When Thai people see a Caucasian, they see a strange life form from a far away galaxy. Even if you speak Thai perfectly and Wai correctly, they will still see “a being from outer space who seems to have learnt our customs”.

The point is, in any culture, just to make an effort to be polite. A smile and a nod are universals. They are happy if you just make an effort.

[wolf5370]

Well I do it on automatic - I can't help it.

I Don't Wai

========

I would never wai the doorman (from the OP) or anyone waiting on me - though I am polite, smile and sometimes nod - I do say thank you though (usually in Thai).

I don't wai kids - if they wai me, I smile and nod (and maybe chat to them or say something cute).

I do not initiate wais to anyone who is younger than me (other than as below in Do Wai), but I will return if they are say 16 up.

I do not wai farangs as it seems just so wierd

I Do Wai

======

I always wai my Thai in-laws (including my brother in law - who is younger, but not significantly so)

I always return a wai from any one above, say, 16 years old unless they are waiting on me

I wai important people (doctors/high cops/military/etc) if I feel like being 'in the know' but don't if I want to come across as a 'kmow nuffin - lost' foreigner.

I always wai monks, whatever age.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I alter the level of my wai depending on the person (again I do thison autopilot). Monks and parents/grandparents get a top-lip-toucher (head bowed) - as does anyone important (high police/military or business leaders).

Friends (Thai) and lower family members get chin-ticklers (slight bowed head).

Returned to others (teens etc) get a solar-plexus-level wai (maybe slight nod, maybe not)

I don't do this conciously, it seems to come naturally - this is the best way I think, that way we have absorbed it from the Thais and not over analysed it (and got it wrong or look difficult).

I think its very strange when you see two farang meet up with a wai, but hey that down to them - I offer my hand.

Edited March 11, 2008 by wolf5370

[Gimbo]

I almost never do it. That is, if somebody who is not a service person wai me, I respond with a chest high wai if same age or lower age. Higher aged people, like my MIL if I have not seen her in a long while, I wai first, but since I don't have a clue how far to take it, it's again chest high, but bow my head and smile...

Else I wai, when my wife elbows me, to remind me. I'd say a wai for me is something that maybe happens every 2 weeks or so. Most og the time, if it's a relative of the wife, or friend of the family that I see often, a heart, smiling hello, how are you, or a Sawat-dee khrap is more than enough. And most of the time if its someone of that cathegory I am being introduced to. They are so flabbergasted that a farang can smile and say hello to them in Thai, that the giggles and the luagher is almost always there...so all this politeness is not needed really...well for me that is.

In short, most of the time I just parrot what my wife does. And if it makes someone luagh...good for them. I get a kick out of that as well, and it helps break the ice when someone is a bit shy over this big, blue eyed smiling dude who looks so very very different...

[AnotherATM]

I adopt an attitude of respect, sincerity and compromise. As with most things, I don't adopt a fixed view on it. I live in a small farming community where most people are quite poor and generally put me on a pedestal, which doesn't sit well with me. Also, I have spent extended periods in Buddhist monasteries over a number of years before coming to Thailand, so I guess it comes more naturally to me than most new arrivals.

I usually high-wai (fingertips to the nose) anybody I feel is worthy of respect whom I come into personal contact with; old people, mother & father in-laws and senior monks (certainly not just anybody in robes as I feel that many are in it for the free ride). I low-wai (thumbs to the chest) sister & brother in-laws, teachers, doctors and friends or personal acquaintances I meet socially, as well as when I leave, and I return a wai to anyone who wais me first. It tends to come naturally, from the heart. Often, I follow the Wai with a hand-shake, as Thais know that this is the Farrang way, and in the case of family, a hug; though physical contact isn't the norm amongst Thais in such circumstances outside the genetic family, it has a wonderful effect in putting people at ease.

I think it's a learning experience all round and, like the Thai smile, it's a reassurance that all is well and we are friends. When I get the too rare opportunity to spend some time talking to a worthy senior Ajahn monk, I even do three prostrations before departing and they are often moved by a Farrang showing such humility. Also, I like people to feel comfortable with me and I try to show them that I am not superior to them.

There can be no fixed rule in a free thinking mind. There is no book on it, unless you want to go looking for one. If it's not in your heart it will be clear for all to see. Also, I think pride can be an obstacle to the heart's progress. Observation and enquiry, in my view, is the best way to start and it sounds like you know plenty of Thai people to learn from.

Regarding being a guest in their country, or remaining a tourist no matter how long I'm here, I completely disagree. This is my home and will remain so. I am part of this community more than any I have lived in before.

I hope this helps.

Edited March 11, 2008 by AnotherATM

[SurferBob]

I adopt an attitude of respect, sincerity and compromise. As with most things, I don't adopt a fixed view on it. I live in a small farming community where most people are quite poor and generally put me on a pedestal, which doesn't sit well with me. Also, I have spent extended periods in Buddhist monasteries over a number of years before coming to Thailand, so I guess it comes more naturally to me than most new arrivals.

I usually high-wai (fingertips to the nose) anybody I feel is worthy of respect whom I come into personal contact with; old people, mother & father in-laws and senior monks (certainly not just anybody in robes as I feel that many are in it for the free ride). I low-wai (thumbs to the chest) sister & brother in-laws, teachers, doctors and friends or personal acquaintances I meet socially, as well as when I leave, and I return a wai to anyone who wais me first. It tends to come naturally, from the heart. Often, I follow the Wai with a hand-shake, as Thais know that this is the Farrang way, and in the case of family, a hug; though physical contact isn't the norm amongst Thais in such circumstances outside the genetic family, it has a wonderful effect in putting people at ease.

I think it's a learning experience all round and, like the Thai smile, it's a reassurance that all is well and we are friends. When I get the too rare opportunity to spend some time talking to a worthy senior Ajahn monk, I even do three prostrations before departing and they are often moved by a Farrang showing such humility. Also, I like people to feel comfortable with me and I try to show them that I am not superior to them.

There can be no fixed rule in a free thinking mind. There is no book on it, unless you want to go looking for one. If it's not in your heart it will be clear for all to see. Also, I think pride can be an obstacle to the heart's progress. Observation and enquiry, in my view, is the best way to start and it sounds like you know plenty of Thai people to learn from.

Regarding being a guest in their country, or remaining a tourist no matter how long I'm here, I completely disagree. This is my home and will remain so. I am part of this community more than any I have lived in before.

I hope this helps.

Good post, I agree on most of your points.

It's down to the individual at the end of the day... if your uncomfortable doing it then don't, if you do it in the wrong situation don't worry. In time in becomes apparent if/when it's appropriate, for you. Also, please don't judge other people doing it in situations that YOU deem as incorrect or wrong. There is no point score system on whose the better Farang!

Cheers,

//Bob

*Edit* - Typos Again!

Edited March 12, 2008 by SurferBob

[SurferBob]

I was told that the Wai orignated from India. It is like a way of being humble.

I Wai everybody. Why is this even a topic?

Would you not wave to me if I waved to you, regardless of who makes more?

I wai my maid. If you don't want to, don't, but we are not Thai, so who cares

if we look appropriate? We are guests, and regardless how long someone has been here

we are all Falang Tourists. I love to Wai people.

Thanks for bringing up such a redundant topic.

What about the American Retiree looking for friends?

Most of the topics here are silly.

~a~

She's got a point... IMO.

Cheers,

//Bob

[Verdana]

I don't think any of us will ever understand the wai.

Check out www.whywai.com, which attempts to explain it.

[huggybear]

I hope this helps.

It does man, thanks for the great post.