Full Time Teach. Job In Chiang Mai 20k Per Month! How Stupid Do They Think We Are?

[yllorco]

BP, I was offered the same amount 2 years ago, and I turned it down. I bet an average experienced Filipino teacher wouldn't accept such demeaning salary, which is bloody aweful. How on earth could the hiring officer of that school come to think offering a foreign teacher that low a salary? He must have been out of his mind.

[Loaded]

A lot of the Farang teachers we have are lazy and arrogant. They treat the school and the students like it was a learning factory. They will not go one inch over what is demanded of them and for which they will receive some type of punishment. This is certainly not all of them by any stretch, but enough to make me feel ashamed to be associated with them.

I think this statement fits a lot of schools in Thailand. A few months back it was arranged that I would meet the 5 foreign teachers teaching in a CM school. 2 were 'sick' - Monday morning. What about the children? No teacher and no education. I heard from someone else that at lunch times they would pop out for a beer! They hated the school and all the Thais working there, constantly complained about everything and always wanted more money. wanke_rS.

I see the other side of working here. I have a lot of sympathy for the average Thai person and school.

Apart from a few rich individuals, the majority of Chiang Mai people just get by. The parents of students at 'rich' private schools are often tuktuk drivers, street vendors, farmers and bus drivers who work very hard to try and give their children a better start in life than they had. Schools pay significantly more (300% ++) to foreigners teaching here than their own Thai teachers. I feel Thailand makes the effort considering the poverty of the country. Salaries average 24-30 K per month here. Enough for a Thai to support a whole extended family.

[PeaceBlondie]

Loaded, I almost always agree with you. And we must admit there are some real losers out there in Thai TEFL land.

But I must disagree about salaries. I worked in northern Thailand government schools for years. The Thai teachers were middle-aged or near retirement, almost without exception, and they were making between 18K and 32K (three years ago). Your estimate of 300++ percent more than the 24-30K of foreign teachers, reduces back down to about 6,500 per month for the Thai teachers. I never met anybody making less than 18K except new trainees straight out of rajabat, who are few and not tenured.

You're right, of course, that the parents of many students have modest jobs, or jobs that pay a total of maybe 15K or 20K per month. I think that usually, the best school they can send their kid to (if they are tuk-tuk drivers, such as my partner's brother-in-law) is a bilingual school such as Wichai Wittaya (which pays its foreign staff on the high end for Chiang Mai). By contrast, the international schools pay far better, and the few Thais who attend Prem or CMIS are from the wealthier families.

Pardon me, but I always have to rail against the common myth that the average (decent) TEFLer makes several times the pay of the average Thai teacher. The entire comparison is absurd, for countless reasons, such as pension, status, cheap loans, social networking, families from old money, no need to make visa runs or transcontinental trips to see family, etc. My last trip to see my family cost about 350,000 baht.

[Loaded]

But I must disagree about salaries. I worked in northern Thailand government schools for years. The Thai teachers were middle-aged or near retirement, almost without exception, and they were making between 18K and 32K (three years ago). Your estimate of 300++ percent more than the 24-30K of foreign teachers, reduces back down to about 6,500 per month for the Thai teachers. I never met anybody making less than 18K except new trainees straight out of rajabat, who are few and not tenured.

I'm sure that's your experience PB. However, many of the schools I work with in CM pay new Thai teachers around the 8K THB per month. They may receive allowances to boost their overall income. I've been told entrance-level salary for a graduate in a bank in CM is around the same. Probably there are yearly increments so by retirement age the salary is significantly higher.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Loaded

[PeaceBlondie]

But I must disagree about salaries. I worked in northern Thailand government schools for years. The Thai teachers were middle-aged or near retirement, almost without exception, and they were making between 18K and 32K (three years ago). Your estimate of 300++ percent more than the 24-30K of foreign teachers, reduces back down to about 6,500 per month for the Thai teachers. I never met anybody making less than 18K except new trainees straight out of rajabat, who are few and not tenured.

I'm sure that's your experience PB. However, many of the schools I work with in CM pay new Thai teachers around the 8K THB per month. They may receive allowances to boost their overall income. I've been told entrance-level salary for a graduate in a bank in CM is around the same. Probably there are yearly increments so by retirement age the salary is significantly higher.

I still think all such comparisons, while inevitable, are ludicrous. How many new Thai teachers, straight out of uni or rajabat, even teach, compared to the old ajarns - 11%? How many of them can teach English in English, or can teach science, math or other subjects in English? Virtually none. If you were hiring native speakers of Latvian to teach economics in Tibet (in Latvian), the salary of a Tibetan teacher would be meaningless.

Thai teachers have extremely little in common with TEFLers and EP teachers, other than breathing the same air on the same campus, teaching students. The one Thai trainee teacher I knew was still living at home with Mama or Uncle.

A friend of mine pays each of his mia noi more than 8K per month in Chiang Mai.

[Loaded]

A friend of mine pays each of his mia noi more than 8K per month in Chiang Mai.

Entrance level mia noi is only 8K as well!

Mia noi is one of the few jobs where experience usually means less money, and no experience earns you a bonus.

[ralphlsasser]

Good going PB for telling them where to stick the job offer. I am sure you were nice in telling them. I can assure you, I wouldn't be so nice. I can't imagine anyone in Thailand working for those wages. Experienced or not. The only exception would be Filipinos. Now, before the rest of you start, I am not putting down the Filipinos. In fact, I think they are the hardest working teachers I know. But, as one told me, "the low salary beats no salary." That was surely an insult and should have been dealt with. I guess they think we (Westerners) are hard up for a teaching job.

[ralphlsasser]

realising on these forums just how desperate some people are, I would imagine that quite a few would be interested. You stated that you yourself do not need to work but many people do require the income

If they are that desperate, I truly feel sorry for them.

[hanibal7]

Just a question for the poster.

Is this wage the same as a thai teacher or lower.If it is the same then you have to accept thai wages and not european wages.

Will this wage structure vary with experience too as it seems that every tom dick and harry wants to take a tefl course to get income for retirement here but doesnt want the thai wage structure.

This is not intended to be inflammatry but am genuinely interested in the plight of teachers,with the right degrees.

[Ijustwannateach]

In the interests of a fair and balanced discussion, though, both Scott and Loaded have management/hiring responsibilities, right? So they would naturally see things from a slightly different perspective than, say, a worker. Not to say there aren't bad workers or that they wouldn't spot one (I have a great deal of respect for the judgment of both of them), but in my experience in Thailand there are plenty of reasons to complain about the salaries.

Saying that we're making multiples of Thai salaries or that Filipinos will walk over broken glass for half the money isn't a defense; we're not in the same market (as I've pointed out frequently). With the low salaries (by our scale) on offer now, the most surprising thing is that there are any decent native-English-speaking teachers outside of true international schools in the whole country; with lower salaries there would be next to none. Perhaps the Thais will decide that Thais and Filipinos are enough in most of the country for education; but it won't really be an English programme- no, not really.

"S"

[PeaceBlondie]

Just a question for the poster.

Is this wage the same as a thai teacher or lower.If it is the same then you have to accept thai wages and not european wages.

Will this wage structure vary with experience too as it seems that every tom dick and harry wants to take a tefl course to get income for retirement here but doesnt want the thai wage structure.

This is not intended to be inflammatry but am genuinely interested in the plight of teachers,with the right degrees.

The wages of Thai teachers of English or woodwork are irrelevant. However, to answer the question, I only met Thai matayom teachers who earned between 18K and 32K per month (all of them younger than me, and 85% of them nearly illiterate in spoken English).

I will not accept Thai wages (although 32K would be nice, plus pension, flights home to see my family, low cost loans, the list goes on), because I am not Thai and I do not speak or teach English with a poor Thai accent or poor Filipino accent.

No, this wage structure varies only slightly with experience. If I take a job at 30K, I would be lucky to get annual raises of 2K/month. The advancement is minimal; the system of Thai EFL has few senior positions for farang.

[mrpate]

I offer 33,000 for teachers to come and work at the schools that we rep. for.

still a little low but not to bad because you are in the air all day. plus the school gives you free breakfast and lunch....well if you like Thai school food.