Honda Phantom Two Stroke

[Issangeorge]

I just saw an old Honda Phantom today that was water cooled, I'm guessing this was one of the old two strokes. I can't remember were they water cooled and if so how come the 4 stroke version isn't, anyone know/ Issangeorge

[madjbs]

are you sure it was a Phantom? I think there has been quite a few chopperish bikes sold in Thailand so maybe it was something else?

[PeaceBlondie]

I will see both my mates tomorrow and ask them. I think one of them sold a water cooled Honda Phantom 150 two-stroke to the other. But we do not know now.

[dave_boo]

IIRC, the 4 stroke Phantom has only been around some 3-4 years.

[chavy]

My old 150cc Honda Phantom 2 stroke was water cooled.

[higgy88]

The Honda Phantom was first built with the liquid cooled 150 cc 2 stroke engine, but they had a pretty short production run with that engine, I think only about a year. My neighbor had that bike, and after taking his for a test ride I decided to sell my Honda Dream. But I was a little late and, for whatever reason, Honda had already decided to replace that engine with the air cooled 200 cc 4 stroke engine. I got mine with the 4 stoke engine 6 years ago. Also, for whatever reason, Honda decided to design the 4 stroke as an air cooled engine, and I think Honda has done a pretty good job over the years designing engines so they must know what they are doing.

[apetley]

The 4 stroke Phantom engine is in a pretty low state of tune, ie it aint no racer, so no need for water cooling.

[PeaceBlondie]

In this climate, even an unfaired bike benefits from water cooling, and should have a longer life. But the cruiser-chopper crowd hates to have their engine look like a tractor motor, so the fins are mandatory. Japanese cruisers have hidden radiators and have had fake fins to pretend they were imitation Harleys. The irony is that you can now buy twin-cam and water-cooled Harleys and Buells.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

I believe the first Hinda Phantoms (the two-stroke ones) were actually a copy of an "Aprilia" two-stroke chopper that's been around in the 90's. A friend of mine had one, they were (in Germany) available as 125 and 50 cc (the latter being a joke) and the dealer said that "elsewhere" they are sold as 150 cc version - needless to say that almost every owner of the 125 soon got the 150cc "kit" for it That bike looked quite like the Phantom.

Air-cooled vs. water-cooled - the design of the two-stroke Phantom is that of an air-cooled machine (l.e. the cover around the cylinder making it look like an air-cooled one) and i guess that the "chopper-look" just demands such. When Honda went for the four-stroke they took an engine out of their stock and it happened to be an air-cooled one, voila - what you need water for?

Also the four-stroke runs at lower rpm's than the four-stroke, noty only is "temperature" a factor (the two-banger runs hotter also due to it igniting twice as often) but also "noise" - who ever had the pleasure to ride bot the air-cooled and water-cooled versions of the German "Zuendapp KS 50" knows that the air-cooled one sounds twice as loud just because of the vibrations in the cooling fins! The rest of the bike being identical right down to the power (6.25 HP for both) Zuendapp's only reason to go for the water-cooling was this "noise" issue. And for the Phantom, well a screaming two-banger doesn't really fit the "chopper" image, or does it? Me thinks "no" (which is why i say that 50cc version of that Aprilia was a joke - often illegally tuned to go 90+ km/h (legal limit 50) those "choppers" sounded like a chain saw short before collapse - "screaming eagle" comes to mind here).

Nevertheless an air-cooled machine can be just as reliable and long-lived as an air-cooled one - if not more, after all ONE source of possible failure - water cooling with all it's related systems - is already eliminated. I myself ride a RXZ (135 cc two-strike) here and in my soi is one identical RXZ (all stock) that last week "resetted it's odometer" - i've got photos to prove it, having taken the first one a couple of months ago with that bike showing over 95.000 km "done", well by now it's been "round" and standing short of 2.000. That's 100.000 kilometers for an air-cooled two-stroke.

Not bad, what?

I'm working on it - mine is short of 69.000 now, adding almost 400 a week now

Best regards......

Thanh

[dave_boo]

Hello

I believe the first Hinda Phantoms (the two-stroke ones) were actually a copy of an "Aprilia" two-stroke chopper that's been around in the 90's. A friend of mine had one, they were (in Germany) available as 125 and 50 cc (the latter being a joke) and the dealer said that "elsewhere" they are sold as 150 cc version - needless to say that almost every owner of the 125 soon got the 150cc "kit" for it That bike looked quite like the Phantom.

Air-cooled vs. water-cooled - the design of the two-stroke Phantom is that of an air-cooled machine (l.e. the cover around the cylinder making it look like an air-cooled one) and i guess that the "chopper-look" just demands such. When Honda went for the four-stroke they took an engine out of their stock and it happened to be an air-cooled one, voila - what you need water for?

Also the four-stroke runs at lower rpm's than the four-stroke, noty only is "temperature" a factor (the two-banger runs hotter also due to it igniting twice as often) but also "noise" - who ever had the pleasure to ride bot the air-cooled and water-cooled versions of the German "Zuendapp KS 50" knows that the air-cooled one sounds twice as loud just because of the vibrations in the cooling fins! The rest of the bike being identical right down to the power (6.25 HP for both) Zuendapp's only reason to go for the water-cooling was this "noise" issue. And for the Phantom, well a screaming two-banger doesn't really fit the "chopper" image, or does it? Me thinks "no" (which is why i say that 50cc version of that Aprilia was a joke - often illegally tuned to go 90+ km/h (legal limit 50) those "choppers" sounded like a chain saw short before collapse - "screaming eagle" comes to mind here).

Nevertheless an air-cooled machine can be just as reliable and long-lived as an air-cooled one - if not more, after all ONE source of possible failure - water cooling with all it's related systems - is already eliminated. I myself ride a RXZ (135 cc two-strike) here and in my soi is one identical RXZ (all stock) that last week "resetted it's odometer" - i've got photos to prove it, having taken the first one a couple of months ago with that bike showing over 95.000 km "done", well by now it's been "round" and standing short of 2.000. That's 100.000 kilometers for an air-cooled two-stroke.

Not bad, what?

I'm working on it - mine is short of 69.000 now, adding almost 400 a week now

Best regards......

Thanh

Well, if I recall correctly, didn't your bike come into your possesion with the odometer unhooked? So technically you could have already passed the 100k mark and not even now it!

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

Yup, that is correct, there was no cable attached so i have no idea how many kilometers are *actually* on it - may well be beyond 100k already. All i DO know is that under me it has done over 27.000 so far and is still going strong.

Best regards......

Thanh