Are We Getting Ripped Off For Aircon?

[lioness]

Ok, so the room is a bit bigger than first believed. a 12/13 BTU will do the job nicely.

Don't know where you live but in my area anything purchased is delivered and installed free of charge.

It seems you are stuck on this not wanting to pay more than 20,000 Baht, in reality if you had to pay say 25,000 Baht

what is the extra 5,000 in Sterling ( less than 100 pounds ).

Buying 2nd hand is a dicey, you may get a good one, then again you may be purchasing someone elses problem.

Now we will wait for the resident know it all Mr Naam to comment.

[PeaceBlondie]

What about lowering the ceiling and installing insulation in the crawl space? A height of 3 to 3.5 meters sounds awful high.

[Naam]

What about lowering the ceiling and installing insulation in the crawl space? A height of 3 to 3.5 meters sounds awful high.

that's the optimal solution for a flat roof! 10-15cm of insulation would do. problem is to get it in between the two gypsum ceiling boards.

[Naam]

>>43k must be a typo. most probably it's a 13k unit.

Negative on the typo there Naam

never heard of a 43k unit (36, 39, 42, 48, 60 is in my memory). but then the nowadays 13k are nothing but the old 12k measured under slightly different conditions. anyway, is your bedroom cooler than our larder?

[Naam]

Ok, so the room is a bit bigger than first believed. a 12/13 BTU will do the job nicely.

Don't know where you live but in my area anything purchased is delivered and installed free of charge.

It seems you are stuck on this not wanting to pay more than 20,000 Baht, in reality if you had to pay say 25,000 Baht

what is the extra 5,000 in Sterling ( less than 100 pounds ).

Buying 2nd hand is a dicey, you may get a good one, then again you may be purchasing someone elses problem.

Now we will wait for the resident know it all Mr Naam to comment.

nothing much to comment except that you are right on second hand purchase. but installation has become quite expensive and the cost depends on the lengths of the pipes (copper and refrigerant). i very much doubt that you can get in your area free installation for a split unit if the distance between inside and outside unit is (let's say) 15 or 20 meters. another cost factor is whether the piping at the inside unit is connected by hard soldering or with (expensive) valves.

[lioness]

In the last 12 months 4 different sized split system air conditioners installed. Delivered and installed free of charge.

Maximum length of piping 14m. Had I required extra piping than what is normally allowed for by the shop then Yes, I would have had to pay for the extra piping. That is the only additional charge I would have had to pay.

[Naam]

In the last 12 months 4 different sized split system air conditioners installed. Delivered and installed free of charge.

Maximum length of piping 14m. Had I required extra piping than what is normally allowed for by the shop then Yes, I would have had to pay for the extra piping. That is the only additional charge I would have had to pay.

i was told it's cheaper to live in the boonies than in Bangkok, Phuket or Pattaya

[elkangorito]

Having worked alongside refrigeration mechanics (I was a facilities manager) for about 6 years (mainly concerning large chillers & large DX units), I am of the opinion that there is (or should not be) any such thing as a "free installation".

On one occassion a few years ago, I purchased a small split unit (about 3 kW [about 12k BTU]...why do people insist upon using BTU when the rest of the world uses kW?) & asked one of my "fridgies" if he could install it. He told me that he would charge me AUD$100.00 (3000 Baht) if I supplied all the materials & a carton of his selected beer. Also, he would do a "proper" job by;

1. avoiding the use of flared joints & using soldered connections instead (the use of flared joints can't totally be avoided because of maintenance/redundancy requirements.)

2. doing a dry nitrogen purge of the piping (to get rid of all the solid crap & extraneous gases/liquids) & a minimum 2000kPA pressure test as either 410 or 407 gas was used (R22 is being phased out) upon completion of his work.

3. doing an evacuation , using a dual stage evacuation pump, of no more than 250 microns (500 microns is good enough usually) & leave it for at least 12 hours before checking again.

4. running dry Nitrogen through the pipework whilst soldering, to eliminate internal acid corrosion of the system. If this is not done, the system will most certainly be "acidic", which will shorten the life of the unit. It may take 3 or 4 years for damage to take its' toll but it will fail. If done correctly, any failures are usually due to poor quality components (Chinese made), otherwise the system will run indefinitely.

5. ensuring that oil traps are installed (as required - usually large systems).

An installation of high quality would cost bewteen AUD$500.00 & AUD$1000.00 in Australia, which can be up to double the price of the a/c unit depending upon the installation type ("head" between compressor/evaporator & length of pipework.) Copper pipe is expensive in Australia.

Notwithstanding "tradesmanship", these are the minimum requirements for a proper a/c install, which to my knowledge, are not carried out in Thailand.

Only yesterday, I witnessed Thai "fridgies" at work. Our staff room a/c failed & "fridgies" were called in to fix this. One of the guys found an obvious leak in some pipework (lots of oil) & then proceeded to connect his gauges to the system. I reckon there was about a 15 second period in which refrigerant escaped while he did this. Under high pressure, a significant amount of gas can escape, which can lead to system inefficiencies. No gas was replaced in the repair of this a/c unit. I did note later that day that this unit was not cycling as it normally would do so (the temperature setting was not changed & the occupancy of the room was much less than usual due to "semester break".) The compressor kept running continuously for most of the day.

BTW, I love using brackets (most of the time.)

[lioness]

Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket and the high tourist places are of course more costly, due to the number of Foreigners.

The retailers probably charge more because of this, also retailers rents and costs may be higher etc etc

I live in a Tourist area, but nothing like the above, shopping and cost of living is considerably cheaper.

[jaideeguy]

I just priced the units available around CM and found that the 'Haier' brand has a promotion going this month at about 35% less than the big name brands and thought about it, researched the Haier brand on google and was convinced that it is not a fly by night company.....it's Chineese made, but global presence. Then took a chance and bought one 9,000 btu and am quite happy with it. It is no frills, moving eye, nano, decorator colors etc.......but it does the job!! 9k btu@ 10kbaht and 13k btu@12kbaht.

I just wanted a basic cooling unit for a couple hours a night during the hot season and for that minimal use, i don't need all the bells and whistles that the name brand units offer.

[Naam]

I just priced the units available around CM and found that the 'Haier' brand has a promotion going this month at about 35% less than the big name brands and thought about it, researched the Haier brand on google and was convinced that it is not a fly by night company.....it's Chineese made, but global presence. Then took a chance and bought one 9,000 btu and am quite happy with it. It is no frills, moving eye, nano, decorator colors etc.......but it does the job!! 9k btu@ 10kbaht and 13k btu@12kbaht.

I just wanted a basic cooling unit for a couple hours a night during the hot season and for that minimal use, i don't need all the bells and whistles that the name brand units offer.

you did the right thing as there are no bells and whistles offered by "brand units"!

[jaideeguy]

the 'haier' promotion also included installation, 5 yr warantee on compressor, and 2 yrs service, cleaning free, and the energy rating was a '5'...same as the name brands.

[jaideeguy]

Hey Naam.....

somewhere on an earlier post, you did a breakdown on the actual baht per hour cost of running an air con unit. I searched, but couldn't find, so, could you please re-post how much THB/hr it cost to run a 9,000 BTU unit here in LOS???

Thanks in advance....

[Naam]

Hey Naam.....

somewhere on an earlier post, you did a breakdown on the actual baht per hour cost of running an air con unit. I searched, but couldn't find, so, could you please re-post how much THB/hr it cost to run a 9,000 BTU unit here in LOS???

Thanks in advance....

look at the total consumption in watts (given on a sticker outside unit). multiply with your unit price per kilowatt (which differs considerably based on your total monthly consumption). but mind you that applies for cooling mode only!

rule over thumb is: 9k btu = ~0.9-1kW/h (depends on manufacturer and especially on type of compressor). if amps are given on the sticker e.g. "4.5 amps" then calculate "amps x volts = watts" (4.5a x 230v = 1,035 watt x Baht).

[lopburi3]

That "5" label has become rather misleading (all 5's are not equal) as it has not been updated since it was created - energy efficiently has increased a great deal (and that label has undoubtedly helped here) and now most products sold here are at the 5 level. Believe any air conditioner over an EER of 11 gets the 5 sign. You can check further by top line of text where there should be a an xx.xx number - the higher number the better.

[Marvo]

1. avoiding the use of flared joints & using soldered connections instead (the use of flared joints can't totally be avoided because of maintenance/redundancy requirements.)

2. doing a dry nitrogen purge of the piping (to get rid of all the solid crap & extraneous gases/liquids) & a minimum 2000kPA pressure test as either 410 or 407 gas was used (R22 is being phased out) upon completion of his work.

3. doing an evacuation , using a dual stage evacuation pump, of no more than 250 microns (500 microns is good enough usually) & leave it for at least 12 hours before checking again.

4. running dry Nitrogen through the pipework whilst soldering, to eliminate internal acid corrosion of the system. If this is not done, the system will most certainly be "acidic", which will shorten the life of the unit. It may take 3 or 4 years for damage to take its' toll but it will fail. If done correctly, any failures are usually due to poor quality components (Chinese made), otherwise the system will run indefinitely.

5. ensuring that oil traps are installed (as required - usually large systems).

Notwithstanding "tradesmanship", these are the minimum requirements for a proper a/c install, which to my knowledge, are not carried out in Thailand.

Only yesterday, I witnessed Thai "fridgies" at work. Our staff room a/c failed & "fridgies" were called in to fix this. One of the guys found an obvious leak in some pipework (lots of oil) & then proceeded to connect his gauges to the system. I reckon there was about a 15 second period in which refrigerant escaped while he did this. Under high pressure, a significant amount of gas can escape, which can lead to system inefficiencies. No gas was replaced in the repair of this a/c unit. I did note later that day that this unit was not cycling as it normally would do so (the temperature setting was not changed & the occupancy of the room was much less than usual due to "semester break".) The compressor kept running continuously for most of the day.

BTW, I love using brackets (most of the time.)

You've got me worried now elkangorito. How can I sleep at night now without having bad dreams about the a/c?

[martynsnowman]

After reading many threads here on the subject of aircon I have advised my wife (in Thailand - I am in the UK at the moment) that she's probably best looking at either Mitsibushi (Electric) or Panasonic for good quality at a reasonable price.

All I want to know is roughly what size BTU the room needs and what the various models and prices are that fit the bill.

The problem we have is that we don't trust the 'professional' person who has come to look at the room. They say that we need 18,000 BTU (I don't know the dimensions of the room but believe it to be no more than 6m x 3m) and they are trying to push for Daiken which is the most expensive. After much hard work, they are now suggesting the Panasonic CS-PC18HKT which I believe to be one of the dearer options too.

I don't really want to spend more than 20k all in because although it is our bedroom, we are only there for a month a year at most. Not sure if this is realistic though.

Being in the UK and with my wife struggling with them I'd like to find out as much info here as possible to arm her with but all of web searches return Thai script pages that I can't understand. Are there any English language pages with any of the info that I'm after on?

Many many thanks for any advice at all here!

hi qpgwmh i,ve just had aircon fitted into my bedroom, house at udonthani yesterday i was talking too owner of local bar about aircon , he said he could get it at cost price i,d seen SAMSUNG in big C at 22,900 for 12,000 btu NOT fitted, he made a call, they came this morning fully fitted very clean job same model as big C only 18,800 i,m very pleased .....

martyn....