Two Tier / Double Pricing For Farang

[TheDon]

Just pay what is asked.

Problem solved

[KireB]

Whilst farang are often charged more than Thais, there are many things that work in our favour. I am let off by traffic police all the time, for example, especially with my little one in the car. I can get discount that Thais wouldn't have the nerve to ask for, and better service in shops. Bank workers go out of their way to help me. I don't lose face very easily, which enables me to get away with a lot more than my Thai brothers and sisters.

People remember me which used to be a bad thing when I was a 'naughty boy' Now it is an advantage. Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realise this.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Toxin's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

I know that if I want to become a Thai citizen I can, but when I weigh up all the pros and cons, I would rather keep my British passport.

Once you've seen one temple, you've seen them all anyway.

N N

Spot on. Just realize how many times we'll get a VIP treatment here. Over the last two years, I was probably stopped 10 times by the police, only had to pay once! Thais dont get away like that. Banks, hospitals, the second I walk in, I'm being served, line or no line. Being a foreigner here certainly has advantages!

Nevertheless, double pricing is shameful and is third-world behavior. We are poor and you are rich!

[TheDon]

Just deal with it, dont like it? dont go to the places that charge more for being a farang. Simple as that

[funfun]

Good post & good way of thinking Neeranam @ 2008, think also MengWan @ says

"But I have asuggestion : why not create a (public) database of places "to avoid", i.e. where double-pricing exists.

Such a data-base (on the Internet) could be checked by town, when one goes somewhere, take notice of the "places to avoid" since I beleive (publicized) boycott is the ONLY way "

not bad also, i would use it wherever poss!!!

chris

[BigSnake]

I know that two tier/double pricing topic has been discussed many times before on Thai Visa forums, but, I would like to know if any actions, such as a class action lawsuit could be brought upon establishments who are doing this. I feel that the two tier/double pricing policy is racist by those who are initiating it. This does not include having reduced prices for children or seniors. It is the policy of charging more just because you are not Thai.

Would it be possible for an Expats Club, for instance, to make a case of this on behalf of non-Thai resisidents of the Kingdom to make a point?

On a recent holiday I noticed a number of places charging much more for farang, than for Thais. Included are Chiang Mai Night Siffari--250 baht for a Thai, and 500 for the Farang partner. Tiffany's Cabaret (Pattaya) 250+baht for the Thai and 500+baht for the Farang. They even have the nerver to put the Thai price in Thai script so the Farang won't know. We all know the national parks more than double the prices for Farang. It even went as far as hotel reservations and a membership card at the Royal Twins Palace in Pattaya. A loyalty (discount) card for a Thai is 300 baht, and 350 if in the Farangs name. When my Thai partner called for a room rate with the loyalty card, the quote was 1290 baht. When I called with the loyalty card number, the quote for the same room type was 1790 baht.

My whole arguement is not just the money differential--it is the principle of the way Thai businesses and institutions discriminate and charge Farang more because we lack "colour".

If a class action suit is not a possibility against the establishments and institutions who do this, I was wondering if we could establish a list of every place in every City and Town that has this policy, and as residents, we could decide beforehand if we wish to patronize places that do have this practice of two tier double pricing.

I realize that many of us foreigners are alot wealthier than most Thais, but their are many Thais that are wealthy, too--and why are they not penalized as well with higher prices, so I would appreciate posts be left out stressing that we have more money than they do--so we should be expected to pay more--be more directed to the topic that it is "unfair" and "racist" to charge more to people of different colour.

I agree, however as I recall this issue has been raise many time in the past and mostly the response from the power that be and the general public at large, if you don't like it get out go home. Good luck anything is worthy of a try.

[bob4you]

Thankyou Guesthose, that sums it up well for me, as my daughter is half Thai, half English.We made a decision for a number of reasons to relocate back to Thailand, and in general I'm happy we did, but I find it disgusting that any price decision is based on colour, which whatever way you slant the argument it is. For me it is Racism, and nothing less. We try to integrate and be part of the community, pay our taxes and continue to spend money in the local economy, to then be treated differently based on colour is disgusting. I have still yet to find similar rel examples of this type of double pricing in the UK, but hey why not have a reciprocal agreement .

I think a lot of you are missing what is going on. It is not discrimination because of color, in a ticket line they do not have time to ask every Asian questions in Thai or for Thai ID so it is simple to assume they are Thai. White Farangs on the other-hand are easy to pick out. Many tourist areas around the world have double pricing, some post it as "resident or non-resident" pricing. They justify it by saying the residents support the community with taxes etc but in reality they support the venue by dragging or being dragged to the venue by their tourist friends.

I've lived in Orange county Calif, (Disneyland, Knotts Berry Farm etc) They have double pricing but not so blatantly posted. They give discounted passes at clubs, meetings etc for the residents. I lived 20 years in Hawaii and their a local drivers license gets you discounts and privileges they same way if often works here.

I'm sure neither of the expats clubs would entertain any class action lawsuits as it would make the group look like a bunch of whining Farangs, which they aren't. We all know having a Thai drivers license in hand a big smile and wai when paying local fare works 75% of the time. If it is one of the 25% you don't argue, just think "mai pen rai".

It would be much simplier if they made and posted signs with dual pricing "Residents XX Non-residents XXX. In fact the oriental non residents might even automatically pay the higher fare.

[SoCal]

It is often racist, as I have experienced my Singapore, Cambodian, and Vietnam partners often get quoted less, and they speak less thai than I do.

I usually go find a nearby place to have a beer and wait.

[onethailand]

I've lived in Orange county Calif, (Disneyland, Knotts Berry Farm etc) They have double pricing but not so blatantly posted. They give discounted passes at clubs, meetings etc for the residents. I lived 20 years in Hawaii and their a local drivers license gets you discounts and privileges they same way if often works here.

Nicely done and correct - Disneyland has special passes available only to Southern California residents. I bet this is quite common for any theme park.

Neeranam - good post.

[mrtoad]

Thankyou Guesthose, that sums it up well for me, as my daughter is half Thai, half English.We made a decision for a number of reasons to relocate back to Thailand, and in general I'm happy we did, but I find it disgusting that any price decision is based on colour, which whatever way you slant the argument it is. For me it is Racism, and nothing less. We try to integrate and be part of the community, pay our taxes and continue to spend money in the local economy, to then be treated differently based on colour is disgusting. I have still yet to find similar rel examples of this type of double pricing in the UK, but hey why not have a reciprocal agreement .

I think a lot of you are missing what is going on. It is not discrimination because of color, in a ticket line they do not have time to ask every Asian questions in Thai or for Thai ID so it is simple to assume they are Thai. White Farangs on the other-hand are easy to pick out. Many tourist areas around the world have double pricing, some post it as "resident or non-resident" pricing. They justify it by saying the residents support the community with taxes etc but in reality they support the venue by dragging or being dragged to the venue by their tourist friends.

I've lived in Orange county Calif, (Disneyland, Knotts Berry Farm etc) They have double pricing but not so blatantly posted. They give discounted passes at clubs, meetings etc for the residents. I lived 20 years in Hawaii and their a local drivers license gets you discounts and privileges they same way if often works here.

I'm sure neither of the expats clubs would entertain any class action lawsuits as it would make the group look like a bunch of whining Farangs, which they aren't. We all know having a Thai drivers license in hand a big smile and wai when paying local fare works 75% of the time. If it is one of the 25% you don't argue, just think "mai pen rai".

It would be much simplier if they made and posted signs with dual pricing "Residents XX Non-residents XXX. In fact the oriental non residents might even automatically pay the higher fare.

quote name='bob4you' post='1910015' date='2008-04-05 09:55:18']

Sorry, I think you are missing my point. You have also contradicted yourself. I am clealry not a tourist, my wife and daughter are Thai nationals and I am here on a WP. In certain places I am discrimanted against based on "colour" even though it is plain obvious that my fmaily is Thai as they pay the Thai price. As it it, I show my driving licence which seems to be of some benefit. I don't agree with it, but it doesn't keep me up at night. There are plenty of other places to go, see and spend money in, if it's one of the 25% places that you refer to, I choose not to go in, it's called freedom to choose.

Edited April 5, 2008 by mrtoad

[PadThaiGuy]

I support two tier pricing at venues supported by local tax money... National Museums etc.

The blatent ripoff tactics employed by many Thai business I don't appreciate.... like a special priced menu for the farang.. That' s BS.

Guy like Bendix just roll over and take it up the as*...not me.

[Crash999]

On a recent trip to Chiang Mai I was met with double pricing several times in a the two days I was there but was able to get out of it- on Doi Suthep, Phuping Palace (pronounced 'boo ping', not the way I was hoping), at the Chiang Mai zoo, at the zoo's Panda exhibit, and at Doi Ithanon.

The key was having a Thai driver's license (which is supposed to prove one lives in Thailand, although I don't) and speaking Thai helped.

Overall I think the intent is to charge foreign tourists, not foreigners, but the message doesn't always get transmitted down to the occasional boneheaded ticket vendor so one has to resort to other methods. My ex-boss, a mountain of a man, was stopped with his Thai family at the entrance to the cable car at Khao Wang in Phetchaburi as they wanted him to pay the foreigner cost. They wouldn't give him a ticket at the lower amount so he told them that it was ok- he'd wait there until his family got back. Right there. In front of the ticket booth, so no one else could buy a ticket. After a bit of deliberation they quietly sold him a ticket at the lower amount.

[number9999]

I agree with forangs paying more for things like national parks night safari hotels thats

just a matter of being able to bargain The argument that rich thais also get it cheaper

does not hold water most Thais are very poor how else could a poor lad take his girlfriend to a park if he had to pay 200 baht instead of 20 My solution would be to charge say $ 50 for entry visa

and for that include free entry to all national parks those on long term visas id charge an extra say $ 100

Its more than fair and also done in Indonesia for national moniments or how else could the poor

vitis such places

[kiakaha]

foreigner residents will usually not have a problem ie: work permit holders, permanent residents, naturalised citizens etc...

Don't agree with you. I am a PR holder and over the years I have experienced many problems gaining access to some National Parks, Historical Sites and in Pattaya to Nong Nooch.* It may be policy to allow non - tourists entry into such places at Thai prices, but the ticket sellers are not always properly briefed and treat all foreigners the same way. Often their superiors are not available to override their decision. And I won't even mention Pattaya's baht buses!

Whilst I will always argue the toss to get into such places at the Thai prices, especially having paid out a large sum to gain PR such "negotiations" cause considerable embarrassment to my wife and any Thai friends.

To some people/establishments a foreigner is always a foreigner, no matter what. * At Nong Nooch last year I was told "If you don't want to pay farang price - go home!" To appease my family, I did pay, but later spent half an hour with the "big boss", had my money refunded, received other benefits and was assured that the ticket seller would not be employed the following day.

you should quote my whole post when quoting.

you'll notice i state "generally speaking", because I know of exceptions, but in my experience they have been the minority of cases.

[kiakaha]

foreigner residents will usually not have a problem ie: work permit holders, permanent residents, naturalised citizens etc...

Don't agree with you. I am a PR holder and over the years I have experienced many problems gaining access to some National Parks, Historical Sites and in Pattaya to Nong Nooch.* It may be policy to allow non - tourists entry into such places at Thai prices, but the ticket sellers are not always properly briefed and treat all foreigners the same way. Often their superiors are not available to override their decision. And I won't even mention Pattaya's baht buses!

Whilst I will always argue the toss to get into such places at the Thai prices, especially having paid out a large sum to gain PR such "negotiations" cause considerable embarrassment to my wife and any Thai friends.

To some people/establishments a foreigner is always a foreigner, no matter what. * At Nong Nooch last year I was told "If you don't want to pay farang price - go home!" To appease my family, I did pay, but later spent half an hour with the "big boss", had my money refunded, received other benefits and was assured that the ticket seller would not be employed the following day.

the 2 times in my life i've been to nong nooch i got the thai price...once my wife just bought the tickets, the other time by showing my drivers license.

[number9999]

After making this decision and on entering a national park a conversation ensued with the staff of the park ticket office - His wife should pay the Bht 20 price because she was Thai, the father should pay Bht200 because he was a foreigner and the son should pay Bht100 because he was a half Thai and half foreign.

Its not racist its just assumed they have more money so can pay more I like the idea I have 2 children with my Thai wife so both are 25% USA 25% UK 25% Laos and 25% Thai since im half half and my sife is half half it would be great fun to argue that at national park but guess arithmatic would be far beyond most park keepers ability so lets see i pay 200 baht my wife 20 baht and our kids 155 baht seems good idea

As the father noted this is a treatment indicative of attitudes towards mixed race children in Thailand and one that speaks of exclusion.

Ive never experianced any form of racial badness against my 2 children in school in street in village or anywhere in fact quite reverse nearly all thais have shown great affection to our kids and look up to half half models pop stars and other half halfs I have experianced some racial prejudice against me but only in sticks not in any large town or city and not much probably far less than you will find in USA or UK against Asians and Blacks

It may not matter to a visitor spending two weeks, two months or two years in Thailand, it may not matter to a single guy who can afford to pay the extra charge and who may or may not care how he is personally treated. But it does have an impact on mixed race families in Thailand and many of them do care about the policy and exactly how it effects the integration of their family into Thai society.

As above ive been here over 10 years now its simply forang Paranoa and a lot to do with farangs

simply not understanding Thais or their ways

[way2muchcoffee]

Let me get this right. It's not racism to discriminate based on the color of skin or on nationality. It is just the Thai way. I am not surprised by all the apologists, but rather am disappointed in their inability to see something for what it really is.

No matter. I love Thailand anyway. I got hit with the two-tier pricing at Khao Sam Roi Yot last week. Wife in for free, me for 200 bt, despite showing work permit, Thai driver's license, tax ID, and politely speaking Thai to the guard. So I paid up, we stayed 2 hours, the cave was beautiful. I would highly recommend this to anyone visiting the Hua Hin area.

Sure there are things that annoy me, but I chose to live here, and on the whole I'm happier in Thailand than in my home country. I'm well established here and have no intention of leaving anytime soon. I will, however, retain the right to point out injustice wherever I see it, be it in Thailand, USA, UK, or wherever. The simple fact is that I live here, so I am more likely to see or feel the injustices here on a regular basis than any other country. TIT.

Edited April 5, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[ramirez]

Please join me in BOYCOTTING GOLF COURSES with 2-tier pricing "special rates for THAI only". Doesn't matter if you have a resident permit, driving license, work permit or swim in money. ### If you are not thai by birth, boycott these golf courses! ###

If you notice that they are you attempting to charge you strange fees, STOP! Turn around and leave for another course, even if you could afford the fee easily. Contact me for good, FARANG FRIENDLY golf courses for all budgets in your area.

[RusticCharm]

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It IS racist and unfair. And please, pray do tell what could the 'valid' reason be.

I find your staement amazingly ignorant.

Edited April 5, 2008 by RusticCharm

[Maigo6]

I always ask if they have a Farang price and a Thai price, and I always insist on paying the Farang price, I'm a Farang so that's the price, and I will pay it quite gladly if I want the product.

I don't see too many complaints from Farang sex tourists who pay Farang rates as opposed to Thai rates, then again, nobody wants to admit being here just cos they cannot get women in their own country or afford to pay for women in their own country.

And so many here bitch about corruption by the Police, yet when you're stopped for speeding or whatever and just hand over 100 baht and go on your way, you're quite happy, so it seems some corrruption is quite acceptable to Farangs as long as they benefit from it, if they see others benefit from it, it's wrong!

You moaners and whingers know exactly the score in Thailand and numerous other countries, yet you still arrive by the planeload to take advantage of the things you travel thousands of miles to take advantage of, then do nothing but bitch about the things that the local population do to take advantage of the people that are taking advantage of them and the things their country has to offer.

And people talking about double pricing being something that will stop Millions of Tourists arriving in Thailand each year, utter rubbish.

Tell them the price for a short time is the same price as it is in Geneva or Tokyo, then these so called Tourists will stay away in their milliions, as long as these people can take advantage of people with no social security system, poor education system and very little prospect of the good things in life, they will arrive by the plane load as they have done for years.

Take away the availability to exploit the financial situation of poor people, then that will see a mass exodus of ' Tourists ' to other developing nations to indulge in what they indulge in, in Thailand .

And let me tell you something folks, you will get ripped off by the locals there too, and you will bitch and moan about unfair it all is, just like you do here!

Thai people owe you nothing, you choose to come, so put up or ship out!!

Have a nice day folks.

Edited April 5, 2008 by Maigo6

[Old Man River]

A noble idea from the OP, but TIT not the US or UK.

USA has local vs. non local pricing as well. I know...encounter it every year when I go snowboarding.

Can't remember about the UK.

No legal reason for a class action suit; you can only speak with your feet.

Double pricing bothers me. In the US it is an issue of whether you are from the area or not, but not Americans vs. foreigners. While assuredly racism does exist in the US, it isn't as blatant as this.

I agree completely in that you can only speak with your feet.

[bendix]

I support two tier pricing at venues supported by local tax money... National Museums etc.

The blatent ripoff tactics employed by many Thai business I don't appreciate.... like a special priced menu for the farang.. That' s BS.

Guy like Bendix just roll over and take it up the as*...not me.

Excuse me?

I cant say I've experienced two tier pricing myself. The only time I went to a national park recently (Ancient City) I got the local rate after showing them my driving licence and work permit. As for special priced menus - I can't say. I only ever eat out with my wife and she's knows the ropes.

What do you do instead of rolling over, PTG? Bleat like a child? Get into a rage? Storm out in disgust?

Please enlighten me. I feel I have so much to learn from you. You have, after all, been here much longer than me and accordingly have had more time to feel miserable.

[GuestHouse]

Bendix .. are you seriously expecting us to believe that you have NEVER EXPERIENCED TWO TIER PRICING IN THAILAND ---- NEVER!?

Please do try to keep things within the realms of believability.

[Iambabababor]

I agree with forangs paying more for things like national parks night safari hotels

most Thais are very poor how else could a poor lad take his girlfriend to a park if he had to pay 200 baht instead of 20

Its more than fair or how else could the poor

vitis such places

You make a point. Most Thais are relatively poor, and those relatively poor souls generally do not visit the various entertainment amenities, and likely would not even if they were free. Most cannot scrape together the transportation cost, preferring to spend their money on lao Kao Thai whisky or the fortnightly underground lottery.

It's not just a case of why should foreigners be charged such excessive entrance fees, but where does this extra money go? Take the case of Ko Samet. Until a year or so ago, visitors entering from the ferry, were transported to their lodgings by a pick up taxi and stopped at the ticket office to pay the appropriate entrance fee. Now, the taxi sails straight through, and the driver collects the entrance fees (various amounts depending on age, colour nationality etc), and supposedly hands over this money to the park ticket office. But does he? The ticket collectors and the taxi drivers are all friends together and can be seen drinking and socialising after work. How much is kept by the taxi drivers? And how much is subsequently shared out between the collectors and the drivers? The extra money extorted from foreigners brings them no greater benefits. Just look at the beaches after a long holiday weekend when all the Thais have visited. They are filthy, and much manpower is needed to clean them up. Most foreigners show far more respect for cleanliness, using rubbish bins etc, yet their inflated entrance fees clearly go to cleaning up the Thai garbage!

Another poster has said he supports higher prices which are supported by Thai tax money. OK on face value. But the vast majority of Thais pay no income tax, the tax free allowance being greater than 12,000bt a month -way beyond what most Thais earn. So they pay VAT- an indirect tax, which probably amounts to just a few hundred a month. Foreigners spend on average 4000bt a day in Thailand and with 7% VAT thats 280bt a day going into the thai tax coffers, far more than the vast majority of Thais give, So once again why should foreigners pay more?

Foreigners are expolited. We are perceived to have money so we can pay more. Yes, generally we do have more money than the average Thai, but for us to visit Thailand we ned to work hard and save hard. Why should we subsidise the Thai people?

Foreigners are co-erced into coming to Thailand by the Tourist Association of Thailand with their Amazing Thailand advertisements. Nowhere are they told that they will be ripped off -have to pay more than the locals to see the advertised attractions, and yet receive no additional benefits for their inflated admissions.

The only thing Amazing is that the government permit this two-tier pricing!

Two -tier pricing is wrong and totally unjustified

[onzestan]

Please join me in BOYCOTTING GOLF COURSES with 2-tier pricing "special rates for THAI only". Doesn't matter if you have a resident permit, driving license, work permit or swim in money. ### If you are not thai by birth, boycott these golf courses! ###

If you notice that they are you attempting to charge you strange fees, STOP! Turn around and leave for another course, even if you could afford the fee easily. Contact me for good, FARANG FRIENDLY golf courses for all budgets in your area.

I'll join you, in fact I promise you to NEVER set foot on a golf course.

cheers

onzestan

[Maigo6]

Foreigners are co-erced into coming to Thailand by the Tourist Association of Thailand with their Amazing Thailand advertisements. Nowhere are they told that they will be ripped off -have to pay more than the locals to see the advertised attractions, and yet receive no additional benefits for their inflated admissions.

The only thing Amazing is that the government permit this two-tier pricing!

These tourists that have been co-erced into coming to Thailand won't be coming back ?

That's good, less farangs around to whine about everything.

[Iambabababor]

If the Thais whined more Thailand would not be a 3rd world country. Mustn't complain when things are wrong, greng jai; mai pen rai. What a load of <deleted>!

[GuestHouse]

If the Thais whined more Thailand would not be a 3rd world country. Mustn't complain when things are wrong, greng jai; mai pen rai. What a load of <deleted>!

There are worse things.... don't get caught disagreeing with Maigo6 and the 'Saffron Tinted Glasses Brigade' - Remember, you gave up your rights to have and express an opinion at immigration ..... or so they would have it.

[Maigo6]

If the Thais whined more Thailand would not be a 3rd world country. Mustn't complain when things are wrong, greng jai; mai pen rai. What a load of <deleted>!

Head off to Tokyo old chap, plenty of Asian women and plenty of fun to be had, and you won't get charged more than the Locals.

Interested ?

Edited April 5, 2008 by Maigo6

[Maigo6]

If the Thais whined more Thailand would not be a 3rd world country. Mustn't complain when things are wrong, greng jai; mai pen rai. What a load of <deleted>!

There are worse things.... don't get caught disagreeing with Maigo6 and the 'Saffron Tinted Glasses Brigade' - Remember, you gave up your rights to have and express an opinion at immigration ..... or so they would have it.

Am I not also expressing my opinion, but as it is not anti Thai like the vast majority of posts here, am I not permitted my feelings ?

Is this Forum only to be used by the Thai bashing brigade, can we not stand the opposite viewpoint ?

Is living in Saudi still as <deleted> as it always was ? lol

Don't worry GH, you'll be able to live in Thailand one day, then you can bitch and moan along with the rest of em that are forced to stay in Thailand at gunpoint.

Off Topic : I couldn't find the Bose comfort headphones, so I ended up with the Audio Technica ANC7's, very good cans.

[Iambabababor]

If the Thais whined more Thailand would not be a 3rd world country. Mustn't complain when things are wrong, greng jai; mai pen rai. What a load of <deleted>!

Head off to Tokyo old chap, plenty of Asian women and plenty of fun to be had, and you won't get charged more than the Locals.

Interested ?

My concern is for my fellow foreigners more than myself. I don't pay inflated prices. I negotiate a Thai price or generally walk away.

It is the principle of dual pricing that is unfair regardless of whom it is directed against.For a single visitor on a fortnights holiday, it is neither here nor there. But for those of us who live here permanently and have families, it is not only costly to have to continually pay more, but is humiliating to have a higher price demanded from us in front of our Thai families.

If all foreigners were to be banned from the country tomorrow, I doubt very much that entrance fees would increase. Indeed with the loss of foreign money, cheaper promotions for the locals could be expected.