Us Embassy Is Enough To Make A Grown Man Cry!

[Nordlys]

A friend recently tried for a tourist visa for 15 days. The application was presented in a professional way, docoumented, tabulated with tabel of contents, etc etc. The interview took 2 minutes. They asked her why she is a university student at age 28. That was it. Application denied. Did not even glance at the documents or supporting information.

amerika-what a country!

I've just returned from 12 days trip in the U.S. taking my Thai wife to America for the first time in her life. It was quite a painstaking process to say the least compared to Schengen and Japanese tourist visa application, and I did find the 400+ Baht appointment fee + US$131 application fee (non-refundable regardless of the result) to be outrageous, but I didn't find anything else unpleasant about the whole process except for the long queue and wait at the embassy and my wife's 10 years tourist visa was granted without any diffuclty. And I'm not even American (but a passport holder of a country eligible for visa-waiver program). My wife's interviewer also didn't speak very good Thai (albeit my wife marked "Thai" for the desired language of the interview) but as an accompaying spouse to the U.S. I asked if I could answer questions on her behalf in English which she allowed, so I did most of the talking, although the only questions we were asked were what brings us to the U.S. and how long we're staying, + if we're returning to Thailand (to which of course I answered yes). Our young, female, white caucasian interviewer was friendly, polite and a very pleasant person (smiling!) and she was quick to grant my wife a visa. But I saw while we were waiting that the other interviewer aren't quite like her, speaking to applicant in rather high-handed manner sometimes raising his voice (and a Thai applicant pleading in tears not to close the application yet, telling she'll go home to pick up whatever the supporting document she missed to bring). For the record, my wife has 50K Baht monthly income, reasonable amount of saving in Thailand (which we produced the evidence) and had one Schengen, two Japanese, one Indian and one Chinese visa on the same passport she applied U.S. visa, if that made any difference. We had a wonderful time in California.

BTW the security guards first didn't even let me in the embassy compound when they learned that I had no visa to apply (and therefore no business at the embassy) until I told them that I'm the one taking my Thai wife to the U.S. on my business and insisted that I be with her during the interview.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Nordlys

[cali4995]

10-year tourist visa for $131 ? That's the bargain of the century. You can go through that in a few months

of visa runs here. The few times I've been to embassy for services there is always a massive throng of Thais

trying to get visas to the states. That small acs unit almost seems like an afterthought to the whole mission.

[Nordlys]

bargain if you were granted a visa...

For most other countries she paid when the visa was granted.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Nordlys

[adjan jb]

In this age of free market and globalization, only money and products are free to travel from one country to another

It's about time to start a revolution

[TokyoT]

I believe governments should not be in the business of separating families. All countries should grant immigration and Visa rights in either country to any legally married couple. There should be some kind of litmus test to prove that the marriage is legitimate, but once passed the right of entry, securing income, purchasing land, and remaining in either country should be automatic. Anything less is immoral.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but in my view by not granting a visa they are not separating families. The government is not saying a couple cannot be together all they are saying is the non-citizen has to pass a vetting process to prove that they will not be a burden on society. Not an unreasonable requirement.

If a spouse if not granted a visa they can still potentially be together just not in the US. Up to them if they want to live apart with one of them in the US, or together in another country.

I discussed this with my wife before we got married. That if we decided we wanted to live in the US and she was denied a visa we would simply live in Thailand or possibly somewhere else. Not that I would be happy about not having the option to live in the US, but I do not begrudge the country of my birth for vetting who they allow to gain citizenship.

Also quite a few comments on this thread about how easy it is to cross over from Mexico or Canada. The lack of proper boarder security in these areas does not mean they should make it just as easy to gain access thru every other avenue.

[TokyoT]

The area where they actually apply for various visas sometimes looks like Sukhumvit Road near Nana with HUGE disparity of ages between the men and their significant others. Many girls wear spaghetti string tops, they make little or no effort to cover or hide tattoos, some of them wearing full 'war paint'. Their husbands sometimes dress little better in their 75baht Singha Beer muscle t-shirts, and their dirty cargo shorts. They often paint a less than appealing picture of a couple.

Are you saying that poor, less educated people should not be allowed to get married?

"Land of the free", what horse-sh*t!

They can get married they just cannot come to live in the US if they cannot support themselves.

[TokyoT]

Sob stories? Involving what? Are you talking about drunken gutter bums who have lost their passport for the third time and have no money for another? Perhaps you are referring to guys who have spent their last baht and are looking for a free ride back home.

They have not given me the courtesy or opportunity to present a sob story. No one has bothered to talk to me. I paid my $20 for the phone call and still NOT talked to anyone who had any answers.

It's simply all bullsh!t paperwork that absolves them of having to use any common sense. Overworked? Have you seen their holiday schedule? We used to make fun of banker's hours but banks are quite stingy as compared to the US embassy.

GaryA

I had a hard time swallowing the no direct personal contact issue at first as well. But when I went thru this process last year with my wife once we got access with the PIN I sent several e-mails in regard to various things. The initial reply e-mail was always a standard form letter type deal outlining standard FAQ and such. But all of my follow-up e-mails were responded to and generally within 24hrs.

Based upon what you have posted already on this thread I don’t know why you don’t just apply for a standard 10-year tourist visa. Assuming she is granted the visa she would be free to travel to the US any time over the following 10 years.

BTW - You don’t get to give them your “sob story” until you get to the interview bit. Which at the end of last year we got an interview within 7 days of getting the pin number – for a tourist visa.

[Naam]

The area where they actually apply for various visas sometimes looks like Sukhumvit Road near Nana with HUGE disparity of ages between the men and their significant others. Many girls wear spaghetti string tops, they make little or no effort to cover or hide tattoos, some of them wearing full 'war paint'. Their husbands sometimes dress little better in their 75baht Singha Beer muscle t-shirts, and their dirty cargo shorts. They often paint a less than appealing picture of a couple.

Are you saying that poor, less educated people should not be allowed to get married?

"Land of the free", what horse-sh*t!

They can get married they just cannot come to live in the US if they cannot support themselves.

that's why the Greatest Nation on Earth™ is called "Land of the Brave"

[dingdongrb]

The fiance visa was a real pain to put together, but I had done a lot of research and had more than enough evidence to provide. I made sure everything was neatly filed and in the proper order (there is a proper order).

I was still very nervous....and then read about the requirement that ECCO certified paper clips (no kidding) must be used.....no staples. I had no idea what a ECCO certified paper clip was.

I decided to get a lawyer.

I paid 3000 dollars for them to make copies of the work I had already done, and attach an official looking cover letter with the firms name boldly displayed.

We got the visa first try.

I try to tell myself that the cover letter helped (so I don't think about blowing 3 grand on 3 dollars worth of copies)

The lawyer never heard of an ECCO certified paper clip either.....then I noticed the box on the secretary's desk.....ECCO BRAND PAPER CLIPS!!

It truly is a requirement. Whether or not it is enforced, I don't know....

But it could drive anyone to tears

Getting a lawyer is a waste of $$$$. That is unless you have less than a HS education and are stupid. I did the K-1 Fiance visa for my Thai wife and had no problems getting the visa issued the first time submitted. Grant you, it took many hours of filling out and organizing the proper paperwork. The directions are pretty straight-forward and it is no more difficult then doing your yearly taxes times 4 (Long form that is.)... But then again that is why H&R Block is so successful, too many morans that can't read and write...

Here's what I think of lawyers:

A guy walks into a bar and yells out, "All laywers are a$$-holes."... A man at the end of the bar yells back to the first guy, "I resent that!"... The original guy asks, "Why are you a lawyer?" The man at the bar says, 'No, I'm an a$$-hole!"

[TokyoT]

Are you saying that poor, less educated people should not be allowed to get married?

"Land of the free", what horse-sh*t!

They can get married they just cannot come to live in the US if they cannot support themselves.

that's why the Greatest Nation on Earth™ is called "Land of the Brave"

Land of the Brave? I thought that was Nambia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namibia,_Land_of_the_Brave

The US is the Home of the Brave - key word being "Home" like ya got to have enough cash to put a farkn' roof over yer head or else bugger off and go migrate somewheres else.

Also known as indicated by Mr. G as the "Land of the free" - as in - your "free" to see yourself to the door if ya ain't got the coin.

I think some of that Obama "elitist" talk is starting to rub off on me.

Edited April 16, 2008 by TokyoT

[jstumbo]

The government is not saying a couple cannot be together all they are saying is the non-citizen has to pass a vetting process to prove that they will not be a burden on society. Not an unreasonable requirement.

Problem is that once you get into the US, and adjust status, they do not require financial support any more. So you could just have a job for a few months, and then lose your job, and not have anymoney at all, and you would be allowed to remain.

They should really just do away with the financial requirement for family memebers, just make them ineligable for government assistance.

[maccaroni man]

Spot on! and the last i read the US with all it's rules, still allows more immigrants than any other country in the world. Hmm go figure......

from the chart it looks like they are doing some screening but still lead the world in letting people in, with the EU falling far behind so it seems the facts do not support an attitude that immigration to America is an unfair process.

[PeaceBlondie]

The area where they actually apply for various visas sometimes looks like Sukhumvit Road near Nana with HUGE disparity of ages between the men and their significant others. Many girls wear spaghetti string tops, they make little or no effort to cover or hide tattoos, some of them wearing full 'war paint'. Their husbands sometimes dress little better in their 75baht Singha Beer muscle t-shirts, and their dirty cargo shorts. They often paint a less than appealing picture of a couple.

Are you saying that poor, less educated people should not be allowed to get married?

"Land of the free", what horse-sh*t!

tod can answer for himself, but I thought that was an excellent post. Of course he said nothing about the poor or the less educated in that part of the post. He said they came to an official interview very inappropriately dressed. C'mon, Ulysses, you and I are not always the best dressed gentlemen at Tha Pae Gate, but we know better than to walk into an embassy looking like that. Long trousers, full shirt or blouse, high neckline, not too much makeup...Mama taught us better than that, even when she dressed us.

[way2muchcoffee]

Spot on! and the last i read the US with all it's rules, still allows more immigrants than any other country in the world. Hmm go figure......

from the chart it looks like they are doing some screening but still lead the world in letting people in, with the EU falling far behind so it seems the facts do not support an attitude that immigration to America is an unfair process.

Your assertion is flawed. Simple numbers of immigrants has little bearing on the fairness of the immigration process. A more accurate way of determining immigration fairness would be done in either one of two ways.

1) Number of Immigrants divided by the the population of the country. This would account for the fact that larger more populous countries can 'carry' more immigrants.

2) Number of Visa Applications accepted divided by number of Visa Applications denied. This would point directly to the fairness question.

Edited April 17, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[Ulysses G.]

The area where they actually apply for various visas sometimes looks like Sukhumvit Road near Nana with HUGE disparity of ages between the men and their significant others. Many girls wear spaghetti string tops, they make little or no effort to cover or hide tattoos, some of them wearing full 'war paint'. Their husbands sometimes dress little better in their 75baht Singha Beer muscle t-shirts, and their dirty cargo shorts. They often paint a less than appealing picture of a couple.

Are you saying that poor, less educated people should not be allowed to get married?

"Land of the free", what horse-sh*t!

tod can answer for himself, but I thought that was an excellent post. Of course he said nothing about the poor or the less educated in that part of the post. He said they came to an official interview very inappropriately dressed. C'mon, Ulysses, you and I are not always the best dressed gentlemen at Tha Pae Gate, but we know better than to walk into an embassy looking like that. Long trousers, full shirt or blouse, high neckline, not too much makeup...Mama taught us better than that, even when she dressed us.

What has me pissed off is that married men are not allowed to bring their wives home. To me, that is inexcuseable, no matter how they dress at the embassy.

[PeaceBlondie]

What has me pissed off is that married men are not allowed to bring their wives home. To me, that is inexcusable, no matter how they dress at the embassy.

Agreed. A married citizen should be allowed a tourist visa for the spouse, or even a visa that allows the spouse to stay a long time. No matter how funny his Mama dressed him.

(for our non-American readers, an old taunt is to say to your opponent, "You're ugly, and your Mama dresses you funny.")

[mellow1]

I don't know, but maybe the US Embassy feels that a guy in his 60's with a Thai women in her 30's, will result in the woman dumping him in order to find a younger guy, or to just get her foot in the door, to do as she wishes in the US. This would be a first of course, seeing how many Thai women fall so completely in love with westerners twice their age, if not more. Maybe they are just trying to protect him, from a possible economic disaster in his elderly age. US Embassy has always been helpful to me, whenever I needed to attend to some business there.

[jasreeve17]

It's not the embassy that makes these folks cry. IMO the folks at ACS are rather professional and courteous considering the kind of monotonous crapola that they have to hear everyday. It's like a central meeting place for folks who don't understand what "planning ahead" is. "How will I live!?" "But I don't have enough money to stay another 2 weeks!" "I can't afford to go back to the US to get the documents you require!" "No one is over there to Fedex it to me!" etc. Oi, and the mia falang widows trying to collect on life insurance policies... that's the signal to go get a Starbucks and cheesecake and come back after lunch.

I'm just glad I only have to go 2-3 times between now and 2016 when my passport expires (depending on how many CRBA's I need to do).

Compassionate as ever, mate. Indicates a personality flaw to me...

I can understand it from both sides. My thoughts align with the citizens rights over the governmental concerns in so much as the governments are (sorry - were) fundamentally set up to provide support for each and every citizen. They don't seem to work that way anymore. Shame. Poor guy.

[Jefferson]

Perhaps the US Embassy would pass out VISAs more easily if tens of thousands of Thais did not lie on previous applications and then stay illegally in the States.

That reeks of racism. Or extreme prejudice at the very least, if that were true. Surely the USA doesn't aspire to racism and bigotry? Can't find those goals in the Declaration of Independence or Constitution anyway.

[jasreeve17]

Perhaps the US Embassy would pass out VISAs more easily if tens of thousands of Thais did not lie on previous applications and then stay illegally in the States.

That reeks of racism. Or extreme prejudice at the very least, if that were true. Surely the USA doesn't aspire to racism and bigotry? Can't find those goals in the Declaration of Independence or Constitution anyway.

I agree that we have to be very careful to avoid prejudices although the government also has a responsibility to protect the citizens rights / homeland. It's a balancing act.

With regard to the OP's commented situation it's a different matter. A US citizen is being poorly treated by his own country. Sad.

Does a poor (financially speaking) citizen deserve less rights then a wealthy citizen - seemingly. This is not the way that America was set up to be; as per the declaration and constitution mentioned above.

[atomluck]

Hello All,

I'm new on this forum and this will be my first post. My name is Adam and I've been in Thailand for just under two years. I have a wife and child in Bangkok. I tried to take my wife to the states to "meet the family" on a non-imm visa. You know pretty standard stuff in the Western world before you marry someone.

Anyway, she was excited of course picked the perfect dress, all the documents filled out, property and land certs for "burden of proof". Both her and I assumed an "interview" meant just that. Showed up and the woman behind the counter said "Sorry, I'm afraid you might get lost." I asked if she was going to review any of the documents that my wife had brought in. No sorry, there is nothing I can do.

A guy on the golf course told me to go through a lawyer next time.

Anyway that's my lament, I don't know what kind of documents the gentlemen reffered to on this post had/did not have but I'd love to find a copy of the "Idiot's Guide to the US Embassy".

[siamamerican]

America has changed since the Declaration was written, when we needed and welcomed immigrants. It is a tough balancing act, but America still has more people emigrating from other countries than any other nation. It is sad for the sincere citizens that want to obtain visas for their loved ones and are denied, but the abuses in the past has caused the current restrictions.

I haven't met anyone that is above the US poverty level that has been denied a visa. I'm sure it happens, but I think most are denied for other issues. Incomplete docs submitted, criminal record,... For those that are poor, why not work for a year in the US so you have the means to support your wife. It isn't a fun place to be poor. I would rather stay in Thailand and eat at the road side restaurants than wait in a line at a soup kitchen in the US.

[TokyoT]

The government is not saying a couple cannot be together all they are saying is the non-citizen has to pass a vetting process to prove that they will not be a burden on society. Not an unreasonable requirement.

Problem is that once you get into the US, and adjust status, they do not require financial support any more. So you could just have a job for a few months, and then lose your job, and not have anymoney at all, and you would be allowed to remain.

They should really just do away with the financial requirement for family memebers, just make them ineligable for government assistance.

Sure once one obtains citizenship then they are entitled to the same dole benefits as the rest of the citizens. But I have no problem with setting certain financial requirements to try and minimize the number of cases in which this eventually happens. Based upon the number that I have seen I think the financial requirements are far too low. The 2008 guidelines would require someone to be making $17,500 USD to bring a wife to the US - think that is too high?

[TokyoT]

Spot on! and the last i read the US with all it's rules, still allows more immigrants than any other country in the world. Hmm go figure......

from the chart it looks like they are doing some screening but still lead the world in letting people in, with the EU falling far behind so it seems the facts do not support an attitude that immigration to America is an unfair process.

Your assertion is flawed. Simple numbers of immigrants has little bearing on the fairness of the immigration process. A more accurate way of determining immigration fairness would be done in either one of two ways.

1) Number of Immigrants divided by the the population of the country. This would account for the fact that larger more populous countries can 'carry' more immigrants.

2) Number of Visa Applications accepted divided by number of Visa Applications denied. This would point directly to the fairness question.

IMHO your assertions are pretty flawed also.

1) Number of Immigrants divided by the the population of the country. This would account for the fact that larger more populous countries can 'carry' more immigrants.

By this reasoning China and India should lead the world?

The idea that a countries immigration should be based upon the number of current citizens due to their ability to “carry” more immigrants also implies that immigrants will be a net drain on society which is in fact why governments have immigration laws in the first place. Immigration does not consist solely of refugees.

2) Number of Visa Applications accepted divided by number of Visa Applications denied. This would point directly to the fairness question.

The average number of declined applications would not be a measure of fairness - easy access and fairness are not one and the same. There are a number of reasons that a country could have a higher percentage of denied applications that in and of itself does not make their process unfair. Some countries have more open or easier immigration procedures these do not make their systems any more or less fair than other countries.

And then the question would still remain – Fair to whom?

Fair to those applying?

Fair to the current citizens?

[jstumbo]

Hello All,

I'm new on this forum and this will be my first post. My name is Adam and I've been in Thailand for just under two years. I have a wife and child in Bangkok. I tried to take my wife to the states to "meet the family" on a non-imm visa. You know pretty standard stuff in the Western world before you marry someone.

Anyway, she was excited of course picked the perfect dress, all the documents filled out, property and land certs for "burden of proof". Both her and I assumed an "interview" meant just that. Showed up and the woman behind the counter said "Sorry, I'm afraid you might get lost." I asked if she was going to review any of the documents that my wife had brought in. No sorry, there is nothing I can do.

A guy on the golf course told me to go through a lawyer next time.

Anyway that's my lament, I don't know what kind of documents the gentlemen reffered to on this post had/did not have but I'd love to find a copy of the "Idiot's Guide to the US Embassy".

I am confused to whether you are married or not. First you say you have a wife, and then you say that your wife was going to meet your family, the kind of thing that is done before you get married?

Are you on a non-Imm visa in Thailand? Job in Thailand? Letter from boss/company?

[TokyoT]

The area where they actually apply for various visas sometimes looks like Sukhumvit Road near Nana with HUGE disparity of ages between the men and their significant others. Many girls wear spaghetti string tops, they make little or no effort to cover or hide tattoos, some of them wearing full 'war paint'. Their husbands sometimes dress little better in their 75baht Singha Beer muscle t-shirts, and their dirty cargo shorts. They often paint a less than appealing picture of a couple.

Are you saying that poor, less educated people should not be allowed to get married?

"Land of the free", what horse-sh*t!

tod can answer for himself, but I thought that was an excellent post. Of course he said nothing about the poor or the less educated in that part of the post. He said they came to an official interview very inappropriately dressed. C'mon, Ulysses, you and I are not always the best dressed gentlemen at Tha Pae Gate, but we know better than to walk into an embassy looking like that. Long trousers, full shirt or blouse, high neckline, not too much makeup...Mama taught us better than that, even when she dressed us.

What has me pissed off is that married men are not allowed to bring their wives home. To me, that is inexcuseable, no matter how they dress at the embassy.

They are allowed to bring them to the US – if they can support them. Why is it unreasonable to ask that I (as a tax payer) don’t have to support someone else's wife?

If I have to help support the poor sods wife I should get something out of the deal - she does the wash every so often, cooks dinner now and again, or maybe shares me bed a few times?

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

The easy solution is for her to join the 1,000's of illegal immigrants that cross the border from Mexico every day. Then she can join them in line for all the benefits like free education free medical etc.etc. A quick spanish course would help.

I feel for the guy and feel he is being screwed by the goverment. Wish him the best of luck.

[jstumbo]

Here is a story from today that shows why they do not just give free entry to a spouse of military people.

CNN Story

This is what makes it harder for everyone.

[toptuan]

While I was single and teaching English to SE Asian immigrants in the USA, I had dozens of offers (many with high cash offers--upwards to $80K) to marry a friend, daughter, cousin, or sister in the old country, just so the family could bring her over to the states. The implied or overt offer to allow her to divorce once she was settled with a job was always part of the bargain. (Wasn't that handsome or rich).

Marriage fraud is still high on the list of illegal immigration. My hats off to US Immigration authorities who have to sort through this mess and hold the line.

Incidentally, to those bashing the USA for catering only to the rich and denying "entry rights" to the poor: Most of my SE Asian student immigrants (over 100) were all recipients of a multi-faceted package of USA-taxpayer provided welfare services: dental and medical care, food coupons, subsidized housing, job assistance, etc. Also, most of them were hiding significant income figures from the welfare agencies, as most of them worked 2 and 3 jobs. Further, most of them milked the system long enough to pay for their first home in full, IN CASH--something the average American-born citizen cannot do.

[koheesti]

Your assertion is flawed. Simple numbers of immigrants has little bearing on the fairness of the immigration process. A more accurate way of determining immigration fairness would be done in either one of two ways.

1) Number of Immigrants divided by the the population of the country. This would account for the fact that larger more populous countries can 'carry' more immigrants.

Sounds good but that would be saying that if Estonia with a population of 1.4 million took in 1000 immigrants (0.071%) they would be more "immigrant friendly" than the US if the US with a population of 300 million took in 200,000 immigrants (0.067%). It's a nice statistic but rates don't always tell the story.

2) Number of Visa Applications accepted divided by number of Visa Applications denied. This would point directly to the fairness question.

Not necessarily. Some countries with more benefits etc are more attractive to "less desirable" immigrants than others. It has nothing to do with how fair the procedure is.

Edited April 18, 2008 by koheesti