Thai Guys And "taking Care...."

[ChrisP]

How many times have you heard your Thai bf, or even just a Thai friend say "I take care you...", or "You take care me..."

But just exactly WHAT does that mean, what does that encompass...??

I find myself becoming more and more fascinated with the Thai way of "Taking Care..." and I think it's a beautiful ideal.

What I'm trying to say is, I think there's a difference between what we in the West mean by "taking care..." of someone, and what Thai's mean...

We Westerners generally mean it mainly in a "material/monetary" sense.. The Thai interpretation is MUCH wider than that. It extends all the way from carrying your bags for you when you go shopping, to calling you on the phone because they're thinking about you.. or by buying you a small but meaningful gift like a goldfish...!

I know the Thai's are VERY keen on "taking care" within the family unit, or even within the village community... and I know that money and (to a much lesser extent) material things come into "taking care" for Thai's too, but ...

I still think it has a much more "global" reach for them than it does for us..

What do you think...??

ChrisP

Edited October 6, 2004 by ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

I think it's a general pattern with "husbands" and "wives" here, ideally- and that's what they often pattern their romantic relationships after... I've heard M.5 and M.6 boys refer to their girlfriends as "wives..."

I had a very "take-care-of-you" friend for awhile and he would express to me that he "wai-jai"ed me- which I took in very rough translation to mean "trust and respect with expectations of me returning the trust." Isn't the end of the King's Song something like "we trust him and show him our respect" using the same words? [sorry if this is heading over to the Thai language topic, but seems apropos]

Seems like people here expect their relationships to be in a state of mutual dependency higher than some of us "Westerners" are used to. It's cool by me, and I also enjoy doing little things for a Thai partner- backrubs, nail-cutting, clothes-washing, etc., etc.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

I agree that this "taking care of you" phrase is much more meaningful in Thailand than it is in the West. This week, more than once, my boyfriend said that when I become too old to work or take care of myself - maybe in a wheel chair, for example - he intends for us to still live together, and he'll attend to my needs.

He carries bags without being asked, although that bothers me a little and I try to carry at least one bag. He buys the groceries, pays the utility bills, translates between Thai and english, cleans house. He cooked when we thought it was a good idea. He does countless things for me.

I have always suspected, though, that he does this partly because he wishes me to be dependent upon him. I can do almost all those things for myself, but he does those tasks to appear indispensable.

I love it. It works for us. But that also means I have to take care of him, have to help him when he's feeling bad, remember to get him things, etc.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Yup- there is obligation, but maybe that's no so bad.

My "candidate" from the other thread was very sweet a few weeks ago when I had a bad fever... he came over with the plan to go out dancing, but when he saw how I felt he gave that up and spent the evening quietly watching TV with me while rubbing my face with a cool cloth. I'd happily do the same for him!

"Steven"

[Ice Treasure]

I love it when we are nice here.

My partner worked out that he will need to retire the same year I turn 95 because he will have reached the end of his working life. Then he said we will take care each other all the time, not just outside work/study.

Now I have something to look forward to in my dotage which has made me look forward to it even more.

[coolestuk]

Here's a few more details about how my relationship began and how my boyfriend won my heart...

The night after I first met him I was attacked by an over-zealous thai guy - this man introduced himself to me both nights by grabbing my balls in a bar, when I pushed him away on the second night he cracked my head open with a bottle, leaving me with 6 stitches, a night in the hospital and the police station, 3 months of concussion and bills for MRI scans and X-rays...

The next day the man who was to become my boyfriend phoned, but I was in no mood to see anyone and just wanted to cut my holiday short (I couldn't go home because every time I stood up or moved I either collapsed or vomited). I couldn't explain to him on the phone what had happened, so I arranged for him to come to my hotel so I could get rid of him and plan how to get home. Well, he was so shocked by what had happened to me, he stayed with me for 1 week and took amazing care of me until I could go home. For example, every time I would wake up in the night to go to the bathroom he was out of the other bed in 2 seconds and by my side... I assumed he was an insomniac, but it was still nice of him to make sure I didn't fall over. I was quite young and fit (in my 30s) and have never relied on anyone for anything, but it was nice in a time of need to have someone there.

I didn't believe that he could really be so caring.. I thought it was a front. But I had to be sure.. if this man was really so lovely, I couldn't give up this chance. So I returned to Thailand a few months later and spent a few more weeks with him.... And I found out that he is the opposite of an insomniac and can sleep anywhere, and long and deep, so it was even more amazing to me that he had basically gone without sleep for that week that he took care of me.

And even now, 3 years later he is still caring to a degree I have almost never witnessed before in my life (except for one old straight couple who have doted on each other for the last 50 years)...

I wish everyone could have someone like him to take care of them.

[ChrisP]

^^ See what I mean...!

[That's amazing. And you are SO lucky...]

I swear it's "built-in" to some Thai guys...!!

ChrisP

[ProThaiExpat]

What an incredibly beautiful thread, thank you ChrisP for starting it.

As a former Alpha male, dominant and in an intimidation profession, I did have some difficulty "giving in" to the wonderful Thai quality described in this thread.

When I described to my daughter the incredible lengths my Thai went to inorder to "take care of me" and my difficulty in accepting it (and I am nearing my dottage) she said let it happen. She said it may be the only way he can return your generosity to him and a means of expressing his love. Mutual care giving is a wonderful basis for a love relationship and I endorse it fully now.

It can go too far, I think, as care giving can result in "control", I am not sure at this point, three years, if it is my last vestage of surrender to it raising its head, or a legitimate issue, let me hear it.

"You are a naughty boy" is one comment when I do something that it not deemed in my best interest. Example, when I climb onto the roof of our house using a tall but safe ladder. When I work in the very small planting area when not supervised (I did impale myself on the secruity perimeter once) etc. "When I am away doing sport, DON'T do any work, just relax in your chair". I understand "concern" and the feeling of "taking care" not being possible when one is not in direct presence. Thus "call me on my cell phone if you need something" "you no answer cell phone, I come quick, quick".

I am at the point of intending to err in the direction of too much "taking care" even if there is a danger of "control" as it is a cultural thing that I still don't fully understand, but know it can be only good for me.

The "taking care" is given without expectation of return, as well. Whenever I reciprocate, "you are so kind" "I am so lucky" etc. I make most noon meals, western style, and they are indeed eaten by my Thai "dutifully". Fortunately, he doesn't really enjoy cooking, I think "lazy boy", so if he doesn't feel like cooking, he readily "accepts" my prepared meal. I try to "spice up" his portion. He worked in a five star hotel with good friends in the kitchen so I understand why he doesn't cook much, although his eveing meal is an elaborate retual done way too late for me when he returns from tennis and eaten in front of Thai T.V. at 10pm "My food smell too much", etc.

In a word, I am letting him take the lead in the love department, I have a lot to learn in this regard, especially when it comes to family matters, and while not expected, "sin sot" to his mom seemed to have worked wonders with everyone in his family, but more especially with him. Kindness shown to his family seems to generate so much more positive feelings than kindness shown to him.

[ChrisP]

PTEexPat

Well, I can understand fully why he says "you not answer cell-phone, I come quick, quick!".. if he found you, his partner (a "more mature" gentleman) impaled on your railings one day, and had to take you to the emergency room!!

Love the way he calls you "...a naughty boy...!" LOL

I, too, have had my share of "control issues" in my life.. (I like to be in control...) but I agree with you..

I am at the point of intending to err in the direction of too much "taking care" even if there is a danger of "control" as it is a cultural thing that I still don't fully understand, but know it can be only good for me.

After so many years of taking care of others in my life... I'm MORE than happy now to have someone "take care" of me, in any way they want!!

Why not.

ChrisP

[ProThaiExpat]

Chris P: Are we actually almost instant messaging. The sofware indicates you are present in the thread. Now I can see why there is so much drivel in many threads.

[ProThaiExpat]

I go now. My Thai has made my breakfast and is waiting to have his coffee and my "fruit" with me.

[PeaceBlondie]

Apparently we've touched on one aspect of why the Thai partner tends to be more caring. If the farang is paying 80% of the expenses (even if the Thai works full time outside the home, for a salary), then all of these caring services are a method of payment in kind. That's not unlike the way our grandparents probably lived - Mom staying at home performing services, while Dad worked at a shop or office. And, we will always be the farang in the strange land, needing the expertise of "local people" like our boyfriends.

My boyfriend often tells me to take care of myself (such as getting enough sleep when I have a full day of work the next day) by saying, "You have to love yourself." Just by telling me that, he's loving me and taking care of me, and then I have to take care of myself and him, too.

[ProThaiExpat]

PeaceBlondie: Your so right on!! My experience exactly.

I do know that there are some posters in this forum who are looking for "equals" among Thai men to have a love affair with, or ultimately, a LTR.

It was not that long ago when I was dating in the U.S. and most of those speaking on this issue were saying "No car, no job, no apartment, no way" Perhaps important for some, but for me, I look to the issues you speak of as my primary requirements.

Having been an alpha male and large wage earner in the past, I would have been companionless had I used financial equality as a criterion as a measure for those I courted. Contributions to a relationship take on many forms. I feel, my Thai, offers as much or more to our happy relationship than I do by paying the bills and keeping him from going to work.

Many posters in this forum, regardless of sexual orientation, come on strong and proud of how little money they give to their Thais, as if penurary is a virtue!. I guess I just don't care that much about money. I was a lot richer when I came to Thailand than I am now, (stock market reverses) but it has not made a bit of difference in my happiness. I learned a concept from my Thai (ENOUGH) that is are your needs being satisfied? not your wants. Mine are and I am content with enough. I am experiencing a love affair that is entering its fourth year and it is getting stronger everyday. I consider myself to be very lucky at this point in my life and a great deal of my happiness is directly attributable to my Thai, who is so much wiser on relationships that I am, that I take his lead in this area.

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, for many of us, to avoid having our bfs/sos becoming financially dependent on us is important for a number of reasons other than "pride in our penury!" For example:

1. Our partners must continue to have a life- involving a job which they must rely on someday when we are gone, for whatever reason.

2. Our partners demonstrate that money is not the only/primary reason for their involvement- now, no doubt Thailand is one of those Victorian era nations where there will always be some entanglement of love and money in any cross-class relationship- but many of us find it helpful to minimize this entanglement. That doesn't mean that we don't give our partners as much as they NEED- it's just that we don't go down the slippery slope of providing a salary that they should be earning somewhere at a job- and our partners focus on us for romantic satisfaction rather than another kind.

PB has a good point- on the flip side of that, if our partners are NOT financially dependent on us, we'd better be ready to do some of the housework, too!

3. Potentially, with luck and hard work, our partners will be able to bring some financial contribution of their own to the relationship eventually!

I have heard of at least one case where a long-term Thai boyfriend threatened his farang partner when the farang indicated he wanted to break up- 'cause it was too late for the Thai to have a career and support himself! He wouldn't even settle for something like 100K baht, 'cause it wasn't enough for him to live on for the rest of his life!

I don't have anything against those who don't expect this kind of relationship- there are some perfectly good reasons for having a full-time stay-at-home partner, too. For many people the concerns I have listed are not the primary ones. Different strokes for different folks.

"Steven"

[Johpa]

<And now a word from an unrepentant hetero who is not homophobic and who has had very close Thai gay friends for over 20 years, including me brother-in-law.>

Sorry to deflate you gentlemen, but when a Thai guy (or a Thai gal) tells a Farang, "T take care of you" the meaning, nine times out of ten, is quite clear. It means that in exchange for financial security (AKA money) I will figure out what it is that (1) gives you physical pleasure, (2) figure out what strokes your inner ego to inflate your self-esteem, and (3) pretend I am doing/giving the above with utmost conviction. It also means that once the funds dry out I will depart without warning to find another person to take good care of.

[Ijustwannateach]

^I think what you say is true among a certain crowd (i.e., the undesirable crowd). What is under discussion in this thread is more viable relationships, I think, for the most part. And it is in keeping with my point of view that not letting partners become financially dependent on one *avoids* those kinds of people altogether.

Don't think I hear the sound of any bubbles bursting, quite yet.... most of us are not as naive as you think.

"Steven"

[Guest endure]

<And now a word from an unrepentant hetero who is not homophobic and who has had very close Thai gay friends for over 20 years, including me brother-in-law.>

Sorry to deflate you gentlemen, but when a Thai guy (or a Thai gal)  tells a Farang, "T take care of you" the meaning, nine times out of ten, is quite clear.  It means that in exchange for financial security (AKA money) I will figure out what it is that (1) gives you physical pleasure, (2) figure out what strokes your inner ego to inflate your self-esteem, and (3) pretend I am doing/giving the above with utmost conviction.  It also means that once the funds dry out I will depart without warning to find another person to take good care of.

Unless the Farang happens to be you, eh Johpa! One day you must tell us how you're the only Farang who's found a true relationship with a Thai whereas all the rest of us are mugs.

[ProThaiExpat]

I suspect there may be some truth in what Jopha says, but I don't think the syndrome is unique to Thailand. Pay as you go, nothing wrong with that.

Love ends in most relationships long before the coffin arrives. We know statistically that 50% of marriages end, the reasons are varied, I am sure lack of money is one.

Relationships in my view, are based on mutual need, if the needs are satisfied, the relationship continues. Satisfying one's partners needs (and occasionally wants) should keep them around and loving. This need satisfaction includes romantic needs for those that are so inclined.

Stop satisfying the need, whether it be physical, financial, emotional, or any other department and the adhesion rate is next to nil, regardless of gender identification.

[ChrisP]

I agree with the comments above.. ^^

My last relationship with an asian guy (In the USA) ended because I just wasn't getting my needs met any more.. and I don't just mean sexually. What started really well, had got to the point that I felt my bf/partner/husband had slowly become my Room-Mate. We had talked about it, and I waited.. but nothing changed.. so eventually I ended it. I probably waited too long, too.

I felt sad, but realized that I have a right to have my needs met if I'm meeting the needs of my partner... Relationships are not a 1-way street.

And yes, people's needs are VERY varied. Sometimes money is "need" for one.. sometimes not.

ChrisP

[Johpa]

<And now a word from an unrepentant hetero who is not homophobic and who has had very close Thai gay friends for over 20 years, including me brother-in-law.>

Sorry to deflate you gentlemen, but when a Thai guy (or a Thai gal)  tells a Farang, "T take care of you" the meaning, nine times out of ten, is quite clear.  It means that in exchange for financial security (AKA money) I will figure out what it is that (1) gives you physical pleasure, (2) figure out what strokes your inner ego to inflate your self-esteem, and (3) pretend I am doing/giving the above with utmost conviction.  It also means that once the funds dry out I will depart without warning to find another person to take good care of.

Unless the Farang happens to be you, eh Johpa! One day you must tell us how you're the only Farang who's found a true relationship with a Thai whereas all the rest of us are mugs.

Pardon me, but your sentiment is simply not true. I have never claimed to have found some perfect, trouble free relationship with my wife. I have, for the past 15 years online, noted that a cross cultural relationship with a Thai is a significant challenge. Although I do not, for privacy' sake, go into details of my own relationship, I do acknowledge that maintaining my relationship remains challenging nearly 20 years later. The metaphor I have long used is roller skating on an ice rink.

My skepticism comes from my own personal relationship and my vast experience observing other couples relationships. I can’t even begin to count the number of western men entering into relationships with Thai men or women whom I have encountered over the decades. I have had friendships with both the Western men and the Thai men and women on the other side of those relationships, including a sister-in-law and her friends who worked at a Karaoke place catering to Japanese male tourists and a brother-in-law and his friends who lived in a fast gay lane in Chiang Mai picking up Western men. The vast majority of these relationships boil down to nothing more than a long term sex for hire on the part of the Thai while the Western partner always seems to assume the “love” is real. I have learned not to laugh out loud when the Thai partner is sweet talking the westerner with the utmost sincerity and then turns around and tells me in Thai what an arse the guy is. And at the same time the Western partner is telling me how much the Thai cares about him. It is not easy to keep a straight face when someone is talking about love in English and then a moment later turns around and tells me, another westerner, in Thai how much they loathe the person. And one of the standard idiomatic lines in English all the Thai hookers use, male or female, is “I take care of you.” As difficult as it is to maintain a any marriage with a Thai, that line is simply not part of the conversation unless there remains an element of sex for hire in the relationship.

The fact remains that the vast majority of Western men who enter into relationships with Thais are indeed what you refer to as “mugs” and what the Thais refer to as seubeu, which translates as akin to naïve but with a bit more bite. Your mileage may vary, but my skepticism, especially towards all the newbies on thaivisa, is well founded and remains intact. At the same time I do not put myself on a pedestal as you imply.

[ChrisP]

^^ Hard to know how to respond to such a sweeping statement as

"9 out of 10".. and "the vast majority" of Westerner/Thai relationships are false.

I suspect that it's your circle of friends, who sound like they're mainly in the tourist/pick-up business...

...including a sister-in-law and her friends who worked at a Karaoke place catering to Japanese male tourists and a brother-in-law and his friends who lived in a fast gay lane in Chiang Mai picking up Western men.

who would certainly subscribe to the ideas you put forward.

All I can say is that in my case, my bf (who was not in the tourist pick-up biz) turned down a relationship with a VERY rich westerner who was his "type" (and who apparently was also great with sex)... to be with me.

ChrisP

[ProThaiExpat]

I am sure jopha, since he seems reasonable, will acknowledge that not all Thais who use the expression " I will take care of you" in fact. are of the "tourist service" genre. Some Thais, when learning English, may pick up the expression, meaning what it says, without a hidden ajenda. Thais, who disparage their western mates, to other Thais or Thai speaking westerners, are to be reviled as all who do so anywhere in the world should be.

While I am sure there are "love stories" in the west where, when the bread winner goes bust, the other partner picks up the slack, just as I am sure there are such in Thailand.

Likewise, many women take off from their mates, when things get rough, especially when the previously wealthy husband, goes bust.

In my view, it is the responsibility of the bread-winner to make sure he doesn't go bust, so we who act accordingly will never know the truth of jopha's thesis, since we will probably not ever be in a position where our "money is gone" and thereby, experience if our mate is of jodpha's variety or of ChrisP's variety.

[Ijustwannateach]

Jodpha, once again- the relationships discussed on this thread are mostly NOT with the dodgy kinds of Thais you're talking about. And perhaps you should look carefully at these "relations" of yours and whether they are laughing at YOU behind YOUR back. I wouldn't date anyone who had relatives working in tourist bars, where, as you say, they're only in it for the money.

"Steven"

[Guest endure]

What Johpa's conveniently forgotten to mention is that he used to take pleasure in helping bargirls to write 'I love you - Granny needs some money for an operation' letters to the westerners he derides.