mango Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Back in the good old United Kingdom it's all about how much you have. How much your house is worth. What kind of car you drive. What clothes you wear. How much money you earn. Where and how often you go on holliday. The list could be endless. Now when i first took the plunge and moved to Thailand i was pretty much of the same ilk (im sad to say) i was one of those people, who so wrongly judged people before i realy knew them but instead simply on the sway of some of the above list, and even worse than that i was quite smug when i knew i was doing better than they were in the race for material possesions. Now one thing i can say is that my experience here in this wonderful country, with these beautiful people has made me something of a humble person and for the better i can tell you. One day i was in the appartment that i was renting in a very nice part of town, the rent for this place was extremely expensive and i used to have a maid come over do the cleaning etc. This day my girlfriend said she was giving the maid (a lovely old lady named Nok) a lift home as she had shopping etc to take with here and did not want her to have to catch the bus with all her bags, ok i said i will go with you. when we got to her house i got out and gave Nok help to take the shopping inside her home and i felt so embarassed that she, an old lady lived in a little dump like this and there i was 'the rich farang' living (to her) like a king. The next month i terminated my contract with the building and moved to a far more conservative place and have been happier ever since, Nok still comes there to clean for me. Another time i was drinking with some Thai friends when one of them noticed the watch i was wearing, this watch had been given to me when someone in my family died and it was a very expensive watch. My friend asked me how much it cost and i imedietly said "B600 from pat pong" without even thinking about it. Now if that had been in the UK i would have b4 my move to the LOS been only to happy to tell people the real value of the watch, but i had changed and would have felt very embarased telling him that it was worth more than he makes in 2 years. I have since gave this watch to my brother. So this post is getting to long and boring for anyone to read so i will get to the point. Have you found you have became more of a humble person since you have been living in the LOS? and in what ways? i know i have and i could list many ways of how, but i wont bore you that much. Cheers Mango PS first and last long post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nam Kao Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Living large could be hazardous to your health in LOS, possibly ending in suicide Keep a low profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spee Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Back in the good old United Kingdom it's all about how much you have.Have you found you have became more of a humble person since you have been living in the LOS? Mango, good topic and though I don't yet live in Thailand .... On the first point I have to agree with you. Sad as it is to say, for my parents in their old age, it seems like their whole life revolves around food and money. My mother's days are numbered so I have to bite my lip when she says offensive things like how my fiancee' and her family are lucky to have me for the financial help I can provide to help them raise their standard of living. Then she indavertently pours gas on the fire by making cracks about how my fiancee would be better off living in America than in Thailand. Truth is, I'm lucky to have my fiancee' for her love and companionship, neither of which money can buy. And like I say in my post signature, "Where one lives is not so important as how and with whom." My parents don't seem to grasp this point. On the second point, I think I started becoming more humble when I went through about 18 months of suffering through leukemia diagnosis and subsequent chemotherapy. Now I'm several years past it and doing just fine. But I was pretty sick for a long time. Even with being sick, I saw so many people both my age and much younger and much oder, who were so much worse off that I was. Some of them probably weren't going to make it much longer. It's like the saying by the Hyman Roth character in Godfather II, "Good health is the most important thing." Again on the second point, I think I started becoming more humble, when during the same period, I first read Andrew Carnegie's "How To Win Friends and Influence People." Application of his strategies impacted the whole way I looked at life, treated people, and as a result, had them treat me. The teachings in his book apply just as well to how to approach the Thai people, in my humble opinion (no pun intended). In many cases, especially out in the country, we are the falang and we are almost always going to have more money, resources, etc. Everybody knows this without saying, so what is to be gained by flaunting it, shoving it in peoples' faces, and so on? Nothing! A big fat zero! So why do it? I just try to treat people as I would like to be treated, and that seems to work pretty well. Some people are always going to be pissed off that you are a falang, or that you are a wealthy falang, or that you may have had a better life. That is something that you can do nothing about. People like that have to decide to change or continue to go through life being pissed at people. I've been fortunate in that most of the people I've met so far in LoS, have treated me just fine. In fact, they go out of their way to make sure I'm well treated. What's not to like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsukhumvit Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 I knew about the Thai obsession with image before I ever came, so I don't really have any issues. It helps in business, especially with Thais to have a huge, larger than life image, at least in my field, so I play to it. That said, it can definitely wear on the pocket, so you end up buying memberships to cut costs, re: clubs anyway, and avoid going out if you don't have to or when you are on the wrong side of payment receipts that are late. On the other hand, it just honestly greases the wheels when it comes to opening doors. After that, you still have to deliver anyway. It also gets you invited to the best parties, etc..., if you're into that sort of thing, which I confess I am, but I claim no moral virutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango Posted October 10, 2004 Author Share Posted October 10, 2004 Spee very good post, thanks for taking the time. Im pleased to hear you are over your illness now and by the sounds of things (from other posts) doing just fine. It is strange that alot of people can only measure things in material form and i think these people in the majority of cases miss the real point of actually living. Dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with making alot of money and enjoying it but one has to realise that this is not the most important thing in the grand scheme of things, as you rightly point out in your comments about your fiance/family. I notice from one of your other posts that your getting married here soon, i would just like to take this oppertunity to wish you all the best with that and with what good things i'm sure the future holds for you. Enjoy it all... Cheers Mango. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphie Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Mango truly a noble thread. Why couldnt you just give her a big raise, move her in, and continue to wallow in comfort you only live once. I live in the usa and am coming to a town near you soon, I live well within my means here, enjoying what tickles me. The guilt of birthright is one I wont carry. You as I were fortunate to be born in places with higher standard of living. For me I have busted my hump starting at the end of a wrench professionally and now wear the suit and get the big check. No guilt, against my peers I worked harder in school, and at the work of work. Put me in a rice field and I would have proven my worth there. The clock is ticking and my rapidly approach "older age life" is about to begin. Dont need the bling but clean soft sheets, fresh tasty food, and safe satisfing personal relationships will float my older boat on the sea of guilt. That being said the consumerism gripping American is a terminal cancer of character. Not all are smitten and most here quiet and hardworking family people will moderate group behavior driven by the economic nessesity of the time. cheerio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Have you found you have became more of a humble person since you have been living in the LOS? and in what ways? Out in the country, for sure. Sometimes in the city as well. -don't take any of the pricier automobiles when travelling outside of Bangkok or Chonburi... usually instead renting a common minivan for the trip. -no one wears any jewelry... myself I wear my most modest model in my watch collection -when talking about one's achievements (with western friends, or on the net... I'll say outright that the end results come from hard work, higher standards of quality control, discipline, etc.).... here in Thailand though, much more humble about it... just attribute it to "luck," opportunities deriving from economic conditions, things like that. Partially for practical reasons (such as safety) and also because sometimes the differences in income are rather dramatic (particularly in the country). It's hard to connect with these folks if you're wearing 7 years of their salary on your wrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango Posted October 10, 2004 Author Share Posted October 10, 2004 Mango trulyre a noble thad. Why couldnt you just give her a big raise, move her in, and continue to wallow in comfort you only live once. Ralphie that is a very valid point, but i'm not on a crusade to save anyone, this example was just one of many things here that made me think about how a more simple exsistence may be more satisfying (to me) than the one i was living at that point in time. I still own my business here and i am, at the moment trying to get another one off the ground. So as you can see i am still making the same money as i was b4 but im simply living a more conserved way and i find it very refreshing. I still want to make money as i know some day i will have other things to pay for such as good schooling for kids (dont have any yet) etc. I just think it's nice to know you got it but dont need to show everyone else you have. Cheers Mango. P.S. Im not preaching, and everyone has the right to live the life style they choose aslong as they dont intentionaly hurt anyone living it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spee Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 .. thanks for taking the time.... i would just like to take this oppertunity to wish you all the best with that and with what good things i'm sure the future holds for you. Enjoy it all... Thanks for your kind words ... Though I normally keep a lot of things to myself these days, I feel a little differently when it comes to this forum. In some ways, I almost feel obligated to myself and to the other members, to not only post but post honestly and openly like others. I found out about the forum within a month after deciding that I may want to try to have a permanent relationship with my then GF now fiancee. Between what I saw with my own eyes, and heard via word of mouth, and not really knowing any Thai people before then. In other words, I had no basis for how to judge whether or not I could be getting into the real deal, or just another rip-off scheme, or something else. The advice and input from others' real life stories helped me to get started in forming my own judgement and feel for different situations. The whole other side with learning more about Thai culture and language is another huge boost. That touches on another thing that helps to keep me humble, which is one of my favorite quotes from Albert Einstein. He was fond of saying "The more I learn, the less I know." That's got to be about the biggest "humble pill" that anyone could learn to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siam Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 When before my Thai days,I lived in a posh suburb ran my own business,Kept up and beat living with the Jones's,But boy was i unhappy,Used to work every hour god made,was hardly ever at home to put the kids to bed but sometimes got home to have breakfast with them,To be honest they hardly knew me, Cut a long story short, So after a lot of asking from my friends (Boy they were persistant)I agreed to go to LOS, That's when it all started to sink in,for me. I went to stay in a little village near to Sii Kao,Lived with some Cambodian monks for a few days,I refused to stay in the local 20kms away motel, So i lived like a Thai for 3 days and 2 nights, I was even blessed by a Buddhist monk,at 7am in the morning sitting on the edge of a cliff,He said it was to remove the bad things in my body,as i had been previously divorced,I actually felt so fresh after this,Maybe it was the cold water he spat over me at the endor the cold showers,But that will remain with me for the rest of my life, I know have a total new outlook on life, When i go to Los,I always choose Issan to stay,as i have friends there,I don't drink with the locals,I hire a minivan and load it up,Then adventure out with the kids to a Temple,Buy them lunch and some goodies,then take them home at dusk,It makes me feel good to see the kids laughing and joking with big broad smiles,Better than getting drunk with the Local Men, Now i have met the most amazing lady in the world,Who asks for nothing,But gives everything,My life now has done a complete 180 degrees,But i am more happier than i have ever been,I live a humble life here in London,Saving up for our big move,That's if the B/F will let us,Bird Flu i mean haha! I know i will always have to come back to the UK.But i always lok forward more to going back to Los and seeing the Paddy fields as we decline coming into Don Muang. But i am with the OP 100% i completely understand. PS Most of the guys in Pataya/Nana on a 2 week session don't even know Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelope Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 In the real world, I like to be covert,where possible and practical, about my personal situation, financial situation, career,place of abode,skills/talents etc.... ie: it can increase your/your family's security if people don't know you have x amount of dollars, you may find out more about new thai acquaitances if they dont know you understand the thai langauge very well etc.. etc.... On the flipside I have quite a voyeuristic hobby of seeing how much personal information a person will freely give up to me without me parting of any of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warriors Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nice post Mango. All the replies were great, I am going thru the stage of guilt. Re money earned over many years of hard work, selling Life Insurance 23 years. So now in my life I am ok regarding money. This will be my 5th trip to LOS in 14 months. Stayed in Hotels, flash appartments with hot and cold running every thing. Now I have met a few Thais that I trust and I have decided to move out to Victory Monument area for my next 3 months visit. at a cheaper one bedroom appartment with my son who came over with me on my last trip ( 3 months me ) he was with me one month. He will have his own one bed room appartment, same appartment block. He now knows why his Dad will retire here in the next 2 years. He loves it here in LOS. so much so that he's staying 2 months this trip. I suppose what I am trying to say here is, that we can stay up market easy if we wanted to. Yet I now do not feel comfortable doing this any more. I am thinking that my Thai friends may think I am showing off if I stay upmarket as before. I know they would not think this of me, but that's the guilty bit, hard to explain but I do feel that they would be uncomfortable comming to visit me upmarket. Yet I don't feel bad with a cheaper accommadation and it gives me more of a chance to rub shoulders with Thai people in there own inviroment. Which is what should be done well before one moves here full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francois Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 hi' back in europe after years in LOS ... I'm, still myself, nothing to show off in particular, people think what they want, I help them out with my computer skills and that's what they need to know and what they ask for, although they ask me often how was life in LOS, I always reply "not easier than here" ... thinking ... H#ll, when can I come back home ? I never had the will that people have any other opinion about me else than "normal guy" living a "normal life". I have to say that I had more Thai friends than farang ones, going to play snooker with Thai friends, and welcome more Thai friends at home than farang ones ... may be it's due to my wife life style ... and I thank her for this here (in France), life is going on, nothing special, except that life is a lot colder and more expensive, but our way of life did not change this much, we have less visit ... this ok, we don't have much to say or share, we live a very different life style ... we still are in a Thai life style, and we talk more with our Lao shop owner than with anyone else (except for my family may be..) people may think what they want, it's not really our problem cheers francois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Back in the good old United Kingdom it's all about how much you have.How much your house is worth. What kind of car you drive. What clothes you wear. How much money you earn. Where and how often you go on holliday. The list could be endless. It all depends who you mix with. I didn't find this to be a problem in the UK, and I don't miss being friends with money/status oriented folks here, neither. But I do get teased by my Thai friends for allegedly being rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK1972 Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Stinking Rich Or Humble Old You?, what do you like people to think?I dont think one should care very much about what others think....so long as you know yourself and are happy with yourself. If one always worries or obsesses about what others are thinking, they will never be happy.QUOTE (mango @ Mon 2004-10-11, 02:26:52) Back in the good old United Kingdom it's all about how much you have. How much your house is worth. What kind of car you drive. What clothes you wear. How much money you earn. Where and how often you go on holliday. The list could be endless. I dont find that at all when I lived in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NedKelly Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Image can be everything in Thailand - persoannly I dont go in for it, but I find I am conscious of my own self as where I live is a normal soi with few farang and a mix of small apartments, big housesa condo block and even a small shanty town where the local builders/mechanics/carpenters and electricians live......they do most of the work around the neighbourhood. Attached to this shanty area is a pool hall where all the motorcycle taxi guys hang out....and they all know me. So when I walk around I make sure I dont flaunt anything resembling wealth. I treat all the people the same as my neighbours who are all wealthy. In return they treat me with respect also and we all get on really well. I do find however that the more wealthy neighbours tend to be less friendly than the guys in the slum. I agree that coming to Thailand can change your outlook on life. Indeed, any travel tends to open our eyes. This is why I would always encourage people to travel to places where there are less tourists and to get in contact with locals as best you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Image can be everything in Thailand - persoannly I dont go in for it, but I find I am conscious of my own self as where I live is a normal soi with few farang and a mix of small apartments, big housesa condo block and even a small shanty town where the local builders/mechanics/carpenters and electricians live......they do most of the work around the neighbourhood. Attached to this shanty area is a pool hall where all the motorcycle taxi guys hang out....and they all know me. Sounds like the soi I live in! Are you the balding, spotted faced farang wearing shorts, socks and sandals roaming the streets talking to himself? Sorry, just pulling your leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop3 Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 A high profile in Pattaya is a very dangerous thing, envy and jealousy are two of mankind's most destructive emotion's . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quadricorrelator Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I think that you can surround yourself with people who have similar values in most countries. If status is important to you, then you can find people who like to show off status symbols. If a simpler life is more important than you can find people who enjoy the simple things. I don't believe that an entire country limits the kind of people you have to be with. It just doesn't make sense to me. I think you have a chance to make the kind of life you want. At least it is worth trying. What else are you going to do? Some countries or locations may not be the best places to look for some things. I admit that. For example, I used to live in Silicon Valley. That is a bad place to find a mate (if you are male) because of the severe gender ratio imbalance. -q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleir Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I see two sides about this on myself : I usually travel around spending as small an amount of money as possible, well amost. I take great pride, if i may say so, in this humble lifestyle and almost feel a bit superior to people who spend a lot more or aren't afraid of showing off with their money and buying power. It's part of my game i guess, silly youngster that i am. So at daytime i am one of these travellers that everyone assumes of living off their last baths, somehow cheating himself thru a 3 month stay in Los without spending anything than a 20 baht soup per day, smelling horribly because of their lack of showers... which is not quite true of course but one might think so At night tho, especially in bigger cities with fancy lifestyle i like to get out my nice pair of shoes, the good pair of trousers and an elegant shirt to show that i'm at least en par with all the posh people of the best lifeclubs there are... Not only would i be happy then to have rejoined the ranks of the rich, beautiful and more-equals, no i would even despise them in their futile attempt of showing off, and would punish them, with the little exeption of the most beautiful ones, with complete ignorance of their puny presence. ok, ok, i exagerate, granted. but still i tend towards this funny behaviour, in both extremes because i dislike being either seen as a rich imperialist without a bit of modesty and self-perseverence or a guy that can barely buy his beer when it comes to going out... so in the end it goes to wanting to be seen as a person and not as as a financial power. sry for the irony, but it's hard to describe such delicate matters seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 My folks used to own a hotel, with the people who stayed we found that some of the most down to earth people were the ones with an extreme amount of money, they had nothing to prove to anyone...those that pretended to be rich, or thought that they were but were not really are the worst snobs and arrogant people on earth. The most amusing sights at the bar was some arrogant <deleted> trying to impress another guest whos net worth was in the several millions range but didnt show it due to their down to earth conversation and dress sense, while the snob who was boasting tried all he could to impress because he owned a couple of small business's and paying off a Merc or BMW. Then you can make him look a total fool later on by mentioning he was boasting to someone 50 times richer than himself Bring that Ego crashing back to earth quick time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelope Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 My folks used to own a hotel, with the people who stayed we found that some of the most down to earth people were the ones with an extreme amount of money, they had nothing to prove to anyone...those that pretended to be rich, or thought that they were but were not really are the worst snobs and arrogant people on earth. The most amusing sights at the bar was some arrogant <deleted> trying to impress another guest whos net worth was in the several millions range but didnt show it due to their down to earth conversation and dress sense, while the snob who was boasting tried all he could to impress because he owned a couple of small business's and paying off a Merc or BMW. Then you can make him look a total fool later on by mentioning he was boasting to someone 50 times richer than himself Bring that Ego crashing back to earth quick time. Reminds me of the story (legend ?) of kerry packer(billionaire aussie bloke) at a casino in USA.A young brash texan guy,not knowing who Packer is, was boasting about how much $ he had...Packer simply turned to him, pulled out a quarter and said,".. heads or tails... I'll flip you for your net worth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spee Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Reminds me of the story (legend ?) of kerry packer(billionaire aussie bloke) at a casino in USA.A young brash texan guy,not knowing who Packer is, was boasting about how much $ he had...Packer simply turned to him, pulled out a quarter and said,".. heads or tails... I'll flip you for your net worth." Off topic but ... That is documented as a true story in a great book on gambling entitled "The Man With the $100,000 Breasts ... And Other Gambling Stories." And yes, the title story is true, verified with pictures and all the gory details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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