Unqualified Teachers Up Five-fold

[Loaded]

Thailand has a lot of catching up to do:

The number of unqualified teachers taking classes in state schools has risen five-fold since Labour came to power, figures show.

Two-thirds of these teachers were hired from overseas amid fears that schools were forced to look abroad to recruit staff, according to Government figures.

The details, which ministers released to the Conservatives, showed there were 16,710 staff teaching in England's state schools without qualified teacher status in 2007. This was up from 2,940 in 1997.

In that year, there were 2,480 overseas trained teachers in English state schools without qualified teacher status.

But 10 years later the figure had risen to 10,970.

Shadow Children's Secretary Michael Gove said schools have been forced to recruit teachers from overseas as growing numbers of British staff quit the profession.

Mr Gove said: "The Government's advice is that everyone should have the official qualification before teaching as a qualified teacher in a state school.

"It is very surprising that the number without qualified teacher status has risen five-fold since 1997.

"The huge increase in the number of teachers from abroad is partly due to the fact that so many British teachers are leaving the profession.

"Increasing problems in many schools with discipline and bureaucracy simply put many people off."

Press Assoc. - Tuesday, April 15 04:54 pm

[Niloc]

I was not aware that Labour had come to power in Thailand, I didn't know the country even had a Conservative party either, maybe the OP should read the rules about topics being Thai related??

[Loaded]

I was not aware that Labour had come to power in Thailand, I didn't know the country even had a Conservative party either, maybe the OP should read the rules about topics being Thai related??

Unqualified foreign teachers has been a subject of many threads. Foreign teachers heading home to countries such as the UK has been discussed extensively. If you feel the OP is unrelated, fine - don't read.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Loaded

[Ijustwannateach]

If Niloc cares to read the Teaching Subforum guidelines, he will see that discussion of teaching in general (and comparison of teaching here to other countries) is a perfectly acceptable topic. Thanks, Niloc, but leave the modding to us.

[PeaceBlondie]

At the risk of going even further afield, the percentage of medical doctors practicing in the USA, who are of foreign birth, has now reached record numbers, something like 25%. When I lived in Houston, one of the nation's largest school districts, there were many foreigners and less-qualified teachers on "emergency certificates," who had never completed the undergraduate requirements for teaching.

Getting back to Thailand, I have a choice to work here and maybe earn 30K baht/month, exactly $952. However, as a substitute (supply) teaching with a degree but without a B.Ed. or equivalent, I would earn about $90 per day, less than $1,600 per month. After taxes, you cannot live on that, in the city. So, I will not go home to teach.

Loaded, I do not see a percentage. How many teachers are there in the British state system? Do those foreigners now comprise a sizable minority?

Relative again to Thailand: I wonder how the ratio breaks down for teachers of English here: true native speakers, Filipinos, and Thais.

[PhilHarries]

It is easy to join the tub thumpers and blame the Labour government but the problem with teachers, and many other public sector employees, has been building for a long time. The truth is that state run schools have been consistently underfunded since way back in the 70's and probably before. The status of teachers and their pay has been steadily eroded to the point that many of them have lost the drive needed. The lack of classroom discipline and the mounting bureaucracy is just the final straw for many of them. Is it any wonder that many of them come to places like Thailand where they also get crap pay and no respect but at least they can live in a warm climate and don't face the dangers encountered in some, but by no means all, UK classrooms.

The fact that the UK authorities will employ unqualified teachers just shows how near breaking point the system has got with respect to class sizes.

[PeaceBlondie]

It is easy to join the tub thumpers and blame the Labour government but the problem with teachers, and many other public sector employees, has been building for a long time. The truth is that state run schools have been consistently underfunded since way back in the 70's and probably before. The status of teachers and their pay has been steadily eroded to the point that many of them have lost the drive needed. The lack of classroom discipline and the mounting bureaucracy is just the final straw for many of them. Is it any wonder that many of them come to places like Thailand where they also get crap pay and no respect but at least they can live in a warm climate and don't face the dangers encountered in some, but by no means all, UK classrooms.

The fact that the UK authorities will employ unqualified teachers just shows how near breaking point the system has got with respect to class sizes.

Thanks, Phil, and that relates to Thailand, as well. State run schools have been consistently underfunded and mismanaged. Morale among Thai teachers is low, and they are overworked, although not underpaid (most make well over 20K plus pension). There are no final straws that make Thai teachers quit (they are prisoners of the system and the ajarn culture). However, well-qualified native-speaking teachers leave in droves each year, to be replaced by fresh meat that is not as well qualified.

This lovely culture does not wish to pay the price for most Thais to be well educated in any language.

[garro]

I think that teachers in the UK are suffering under the same pressures as those working for the NHS - which I previously experienced. There is no respect for teachers in the UK and the kids know that they can get away with murder. Teachers go to school worried that they will suffer from bullying while they also need to worry about meeting ever changing targets imposed on them by politicians who see education as a political football. No wonder they are leaving in droves.

Edited April 16, 2008 by garro

[Ijustwannateach]

If they make the job intolerable and underpaid, they won't keep qualified staff- same as here.

A qualified teacher from England recently told me he was retiring early because of new requirements that he had to write a lengthy evaluation of each student he taught (and he could be teaching hundreds) EVERY week.

They just don't think about the workload.

[culicine]

Back to the OP. They say the imported teachers don't have QTS (which is a British thing), though many teachers coming from Australia / US are qualified to teach in their home countries. And these teachers have to jump through more hoops to teach there? The same happens with British teachers going to Australia/NZ. They also need their qualifications assessed. It would seem (based on my experience with mathematics syllabi from the UK and Australia), that they are at much the same level of rigour - so why all the fuss about assessing qualifications? Anyway I'm happy to teach in LoS - students are generally respectful and you are much less likely to be insulted or assulted by students. Pity the salary sucks though!

[Thaiboxer]

A British guy I once worked with told me how teachers are "leaving in droves" from the schools in England. My British coworkers have told me how the system had done a complete 180 from when they went to school. Back in the day, English teachers could dish out all sorts of punishments to bad kids, but nowadays the teachers have NO power and the kids have all the power they want to abuse teachers.

A similar situation exists in my country (USA). Kids can get away with nearly everything while teachers have to put up with it or lose their jobs; perhaps even go to jail. I've taught in a couple Thai schools, private and public, and the kids can be a real handful. I never had any fear of being jumped by a gang of them or knifed as they would in the States, but burying the little buggers alive certainly crossed my mind!

I work with Thai adult students now who are MUCH better, but if I had to teach kids again, I'd stay well clear of the high schoolers.

[mrtoad]

I was not aware that Labour had come to power in Thailand, I didn't know the country even had a Conservative party either, maybe the OP should read the rules about topics being Thai related??

Lot's of relevence to what is happening here in Thailand regarding teaching, thank you.

[paully]

Thailand has a lot of catching up to do:

The number of unqualified teachers taking classes in state schools has risen five-fold since Labour came to power, figures show.

Two-thirds of these teachers were hired from overseas amid fears that schools were forced to look abroad to recruit staff, according to Government figures.

"Increasing problems in many schools with discipline and bureaucracy simply put many people off."

The 'unqualified teacher' headline is not quite as dramatic as it sounds, and the comparison with Thailand is misleading, with respect, Loaded. Overseas teachers teaching in UK schools are (normally) qualified and experienced teachers in their own countries: Australia, NZ, Canada, the EU, etc - they just don't have a piece of paper with 'Qualified Teacher Status' (or QTS) on it. They have been permitted to work for up to 4 years in the UK without having QTS, although the government is now tightening up on this. Believe me (I got it 2 years ago), QTS is really not such a big deal - purely a paper exercise of providing evidence of meeting a list of teaching standards (usually through lesson observations) plus 3 tests for numeracy, literacy and ICT that even most Thais would pass. It's no great evidence of quality.

The real 'scandal' in the UK is the rise in the number of Teaching Assistants. These really aren't qualified teachers and are employed because they're cheap labour. Problems with discipline and bureaucracy in UK schools are real enough, though.

[mrtoad]

The real 'scandal' in the UK is the rise in the number of Teaching Assistants. These really aren't qualified teachers and are employed because they're cheap labour. Problems with discipline and bureaucracy in UK schools are real enough, though.

Yes, and a very good point and the same in Nursing in the UK, although off topic.

[elkangorito]

I am one of those "unqualfied" teachers in Thailand.

Since the Thai system of "teaching qualification" simply means having any degree, I would suggest that there are many unqualified "qualified" teachers in Thailand. The only teaching qualification, in my opinion, is a B.Ed or a Dip.Ed. TESOL or TEFL may have their values but I think fail to assess "aptitude" appropriately.

Nonetheless, I like (not love) my job & everyday it gives me a reason to smile, even though I'm an anti "State religion/State culture" kind of person.

I know of some people teaching in Thailand who can purely do so because they have a degree in something (e.g. Civil Engineering), which they acquired more than 30 years ago. Not only this, they've only worked for a short time within the qualification of that degree (2 to 4 years) & then moved to a totally unrelated field. How does this relate to being "qualified"?

In Australia, I was "hounded" by the Education Department for about 2 years, to try to get me to become a teacher. The reason was quite simple...many teachers were leaving the profession due to a lack of support. Even though I could've acquired a B.Ed in 18 months (based on serving a 4 year apprenticeship), I declined primarily because I am a single male. In Australia, single male teachers appear to be a prime target for bigots i.e. many people assume that older single males are gay & therefore paedophiles. A male teacher can't say "boo" to a student in Australia without fear of reprisal. A female teacher stands a much better chance of survival.

The other reason why the Ed Dept was hounding me was because, quite simply, they had discovered that Mathematics teachers (& other academics) who did a 6 month course in Woodwork teaching etc, were hopeless at teaching Woodwork etc. The Ed Dept realised that they actually needed people with "real life" experience in order to teach the subject adequately. BTW, Industrial Arts (Woodwork, Metalwork & other "trade" &/or engineering subjects) are now on the ED Depts' "most wanted list" for people with actual experience, in Australia. Unfortunately, nobody is wishing to do this due to the biased legal system.

My only wish is that Thailand takes the time to see what is happening in the rest of the world & not make the same old mistakes.

[PeaceBlondie]

Good points, el kangorito. "Qualified" is a very ambiguous term. I would not think of going back into the church ministry with my 35-year-old degree in religion after being out of the field for 30 years. But it was in religious education, and I taught Bible for 30 years, and before that, I taught technical aspects of respiratory physiology for four years, and after that taught income tax law and procedures, and taught ESL part time.

I think if a resume shows a fairly large amount of experience as a teacher or instructor, and the interview shows a good grasp of spoken English, and the demo class shows good classroom management skills, it doesn't matter if the applicant flunked out of 9th grade like my kids did. But, only one of those three flunkees could bluff his way through a demo class.

[mbkudu]

I taught Bible for 30 years.

How are you coping with this emotionally and psychologically? Have you been able to reverse the damage satisfactorily?

[PeaceBlondie]

Bible teaching taught me to teach for results, for behavior changes in the students that could be observed and measured. It taught me the critical method of literal interpretation of texts, which the US Supreme Court uses to interpret the Internal Revenue Code. If you ever teach evangelicals, such as missionaries or Koreans, it helps immensely.

Every teacher is the sum of all our teachers, good and bad; added to what we learned from life experiences.

As for requiring a BA or BSc. degree in any subject, the Thais think a baccalaureate degree is the minimal standard for a khru or ajarn in a Thai school. If you can argue against that in pasa Thai, tell it to them. Anyway, the mere possession of a BA or of a TEFL cert will not be enough to pass the interview and keep the job here. I would hate to even try to do it without those minimal qualifications, though.