How Would You Change Immigration Laws?

[ThNiner]

Get ma?

Jayhech, what is "Get ma?" Or you meant "get mai?" You hardly wrote a single Thai word in that post and yet the only one you did managed to be a typo. Wow, I'm impressed with your Thai, Jayhech.

[aerosboy]

The OP's question is;

If you were a Thai and were able to be instrumental in changing immigration laws, how would you do it for the good of Thailand.

If I was Thai, I'd probably be a programmed, nationalistic xenophobe, which means that all foreigners are banned. Therefore, I wouldn't change a thing. As a matter of fact, I'd make it more difficult for foreigners to stay here.

On a different note, as far as many Thai people I know, the "good of Thailand" means "unity". Against what, I'm unsure but this word "unity" is being passed around to many an educational institution as we speak. Associated with this "unity" is an undercurrent of "fear of cultural change". In other words, the effects the "outside world" are having on Thailand.

Fear is such an inhibitive & destructive thing. I thought that the world was one place? Obviously, I am wrong.

I BAN ALL ASIANS FR0M ENTERING USA

PAY BIG MONEY $20,000 TO ENTER TO COUNTER THAI CRAP FOR OVER STAY

THAI PAY TRIPLE

[therealworld]

[/size]

If you were a Thai and were able to be instrumental in changing immigration laws, how would you do it for the good of Thailand.

To keep this simple I am only going to list a few of the most used visas. Feel free to add one if you wish. You can respond to one, all or none at all - your choice.

• Illegal immigrant or visa overstay. What should punishment be if any?
  
• Tourist visa
  
• Work visa
  
• Married to Thai visa
  
• Retirement visa
  
• Other
  

It is assumed that you understand the existing laws or you would not know what you are changing. DO REMEMBER you are looking at this is a Thai not a farang, so do what you think is best for Thailand not your farang self.

Tell us what you would change and how it would help Thailand. Thailand is counting on you.

In general I think that the Thai's are going along the correct path, it is only a pity about being 'able to use a brown envelope' in certain cases and as with other countries embassy officials some interpret the laws differently. I should also add that I operate (legally a visa business for overseas visas but not allowed to mention it)

So

Illegal and overstays as they are but rigoursly enforced, overstay and you must pay a fine or imprisonment for gross breaches and stamped accordingly in passport with the latter refusing entry for the latter

Tourist visa, 30 day on arrival or apply as per now at your local consulate for a 90 day. This covers all legitmate tourists. No extension within three months - no more visa runs!!

Work permit (obviously biased). Apply for a non immigrant visa in your home country as at present. Obtain a job and complete an application for a permit, again the supportive job should be substantiated and will allow you to do that job concurrently with your visa. At the end apply for a renewal. None of the 1/2m baht companies and number of Thai's employed. WHY? there is already a list of prohibited occupations, it will make the whole thing more transparent (hate that word) and bring out of the woodwork all those hiding behind their wives and make then pay tax. What tax, well that is another topic in its own right

If you have a contract to do one off jobs then again apply for the non immigrant which with a multple re-entry will overcome the point mentioned under tourist.

Still think that 90 day signing on is a good idea

Married to a Thai and not working, leave basically as it is. Proof of income is the thorny point (brown envelopes). Perhaps show as we do at the moment your financail status in your home country and the amount you have brought into Thailand over the last three/five years legitimatley plus ATM transfers. Many have brought in sums to buy property and hence require day to day expenses only

Retirement and marriage would be the same, but consider lowering the age limit. In other words if you want to live here, you have a job or are retired and can prove your financial posiiton

Would suggest they amend the property laws to say owning 2 rai with property that has been purchased correctly, would ease those that have invested in Thailand for their future

This is only my immediate response and no doubt many flaws so it really is something that should be taken seriouolsy and thought through properly!!

PS wish I could get Ispell to work so apologies for spelling

[astral]

Malaysia has a silver haired policy, whereby retirees from other countries can purchase and own homes (including the land).

Yeah but who wants to live with Shariah Law?

Only in two northern states.

The rest is civilised.

[jstumbo]

PS wish I could get Ispell to work so apologies for spelling

Try using Firefox for a browser. It has a built-in spell checker.

[CaptainNemo]

[/size]

If you were a Thai and were able to be instrumental in changing immigration laws, how would you do it for the good of Thailand.

To keep this simple I am only going to list a few of the most used visas. Feel free to add one if you wish. You can respond to one, all or none at all - your choice.

• Illegal immigrant or visa overstay. What should punishment be if any?
  
• Tourist visa
  
• Work visa
  
• Married to Thai visa
  
• Retirement visa
  
• Other
  

It is assumed that you understand the existing laws or you would not know what you are changing. DO REMEMBER you are looking at this is a Thai not a farang, so do what you think is best for Thailand not your farang self.

Tell us what you would change and how it would help Thailand. Thailand is counting on you.

Are we talking from ethnic Thai point of view or ethnic Chinese point of view?!

For an ethnic Thai, you would want to not be priced out of the market when it comes to buying land and essential goods and services, so you don't want rich foreigners coming in and buying it all up.

Seeing as though so many village girls go hunting anything with "Western" passport, and then come back to their village to flaunt their nouveau riche-ness creating potential tensions in the village, it's a tricky one.

You could argue that a foriegner and his money might bring benefits to their community, but in reality they just become a focus of resentment as they inevitably decline various advances for support.

It's therefore best for all concerned that "farang" spouses are restricted or discouraged from having any land rights simpy through marriage.

As an ethnic Thai, I'm quite happy for rich farang to come in and use the sex industry, as it's a great chance for girls without much education to get some money to look after their elderly parents.

Having said that, as an ethnic Thai (or other non-Chinese but indigenous ethnic group) in Thailand, you definetely want to see Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) encourage: especially from "Western" companies who are more likely to be receptive to offering good pay and conditions than "non-Western" foreign interests. Thailand's population is growing too fast, and increased employment and education (along the lines of Victorian businesses like Cadbury and Rowntree) would be very beneficial to the ethnic Thais.

So I would suggest that you make VERY favourable conditions for FDI: long land leases; low taxes (or no taxes for an initial period); and vigourous copyright protection - perhaps a special "business police" to support foreign investors.

If I were an ethnic Chinese, I would naturally want to consolidate my interests by making it much easier for me to get visas for my Chinese relations; and for any contacts I have guanxi with. I certainly would not want a big influx of Westerners with all their disruptive ideas such as "democracy", "transparency" and "anti-corruption" legislation. I need to keep the wages of the ethnic Thais low, so that I can use my guanxi to get cheap products to the mainland Chinese and Singaporean markets. I (as an ethnic Chinese) also only want respectable tourists, and want the sex industry pushed underground, so that it doesn't embarrass me, but I can still benefit financially from human trafficking.

So:

Visa overstay... a fine for EU and a select list of wealthy countries: because we want them to come back; summary arrest, detention, and deportation for refugees from poor countries, because we don't want them back.

Tourist Visa... long stay for EU and a select list of wealthy countries, maybe push up the price a bit, because it's so cheap for them when they're here, and we want them to respect the visa as a privilege not a right.

Work Visa... only for highly/properly qualified academics and international experts to help us train our people and develop infrastructure, with minimum hassles such as having to turn up at the cop shop every so often - these are respectable people, and we should not degrade them with such things as visa runs. No work visas for simply being married to a Thai: if you're not an expert in something, then you are a tourist, whatever your marital status.

Spouse Visa... the longer your marriage, the longer your visa... we break it up into stages... so that the more genuine your marriage... proven through duration and good behaviour... the more rights you earn (like indefinite multi-visa leave to remain). If you get a qualification in Thai language and culture, then we give you even more rights, because you've effectively become an expert in inter-cultural relations.

Children should be regarded as foreign citizens, and have to apply to be Thai citizens... how many Louk Kreung have you met who you would regard as anything other than "westerners"?

Retirement Visa... treat it like a sort of FDI visa... you bring in lots of money, you prove lots of income... and again, you earn rights through long stay and integration activities through education as described above.

Other?

Refugees? I suppose it would be best if they had established camps on the borders next to where they've been expelled: Karen (Gariang) for instance.

Khmers... however much they are tret like gypos by the Thais, it's in the Thais long-term interests to become more economically connected with them and help development there.

Rather than simply increasing the military presence along the border to try and keep them in, I'd expand the cross border markets like Rong Kleua in AP to lay the groundwork for a future expansion of the Eastern Seaboard SEZ.

Lao... again, Thailand ought to get more economically involved with the Lao as a further extension of the ES SEZ, as part of an Isaan economic development programme, to pull them away from the Viets, especially given the obvious ethno-linguo-cultural link. Perhaps one day there'll be reunification and the resurrection of Siam!

[koheesti]

Here's another suggestion from an EU country where I used to live: Show that you have enough money to live off of from an out of the country source (nothing outrageous, maybe 70,000 baht/month) and get a 2 year living permit (non-working). No 90-day anything. Come and go like you would back home as often as you like.

[CaptainNemo]

Here's another suggestion from an EU country where I used to live: Show that you have enough money to live off of from an out of the country source (nothing outrageous, maybe 70,000 baht/month) and get a 2 year living permit (non-working). No 90-day anything. Come and go like you would back home as often as you like.

That'd suit a lot of people who've got their money by nefarious means...

Surely it should be earnt? The first one a 90-day; the second one 6-month; the third a 1-yr, and so on...

It shouldn't be JUST about money; there should be a certain reward for good behaviour and commitment to adapting to the country... from a Thai perspective it would give them some flexibility and control over visas to keep people in line... there a surprising number of people who muck about with visas... it'd be better for the Thais to have a good behaviour aspect to midly punish overstayers (without blacklisting them), whilst giving them a chance to "redeem themselves" and earn longer stays. It might help incentivise foreigners to engage in more positive activities whilst in the country, so as to earn "brownie points".

[jstumbo]

.. it'd be better for the Thais to have a good behaviour aspect to midly punish overstayers (without blacklisting them),

Maybe blacklist overstayers for one year.

If you were just a tourist you would probably not come back for a year anyway. But if you are living here, you would want to do it right or you would have to take a "time out"

Edited April 20, 2008 by jstumbo

[bkk_mike]

Personally, if I were Thai, I think I would consider making the following announcement.

In 24 months time, we are introducing a new reciprocal visa arrangement for tourist visas which will replace all current visa on arrivals, existing tourist visas, and the 30 day exemptions.

In their place, persons from each country will have to pay the same as a Thai would pay for the equivalent visa to their country. They will also be required to provide the same documentation as required for the equivalent tourist visa for their country.

While this will dramatically increase the amount of paperwork that most countries nationals will be required to show, they will benefit from the ability to get longer tourist visas if their own country issues the equivalent to Thai nationals.

i.e. Americans will be able to receive 10 year tourist visas valid for multiple trips over that period, and allowing you to visit Thailand, but not work, for up to 6 months in any 12 month period. There would, unfortunately, be the small issue of having to attend the Thai embassy in Washington DC, in person, so that you can be fingerprinted. (You have to arrive before 9am, and cannot pay the fee at the embassy, but must pay it in advance, at any US Post Office.)

You may be called back for an interview, which would also require you to go to the embassy in DC.

Similarly, Britons would be required to apply, not at the embassy, but at the special visa processing centre (charges apply). They need to be willing to submit sufficient documentation to give identity thieves wet dreams, and watch it pass through the hands of people who are noticeably NOT employed by the embassy, and haven't been vetted to the same standards as normal embassy staff.

However, again, there would be the advantage of tourist visas that would last for several years and give you the right to stay for up to 6 months at a time. (Again restricted to 6 months in any 12 month period).

Australians would have the same system as the British, but would get few, if any, of the gains. Visas will only be issued for a maximum of 3 months, and regardless of the number of times that you travel to Thailand, all the same paperwork will be required every time. Also, the fee will make Thailand one of the most expensive places in the world for Australians to visit.

After an initial trial of these new procedures for tourist visas, we will roll out subsequent changes to business, spouse and other visas.

For instance, the UK intentionally charges a punitive amount for work visas to attempt to discourage companies from employing non-EU nationals (and, for some reason, applies the same punitive rates to spouse visas). We believe Thailand should have the same right to monopoly profits from British people employed here, or who live here as the spouse of a Thai national.

Seriously, if I was Thai, I really would consider announcing this.

(Whether I would ever actually put it into practice is another matter - as it probably would kill a lot of tourism jobs.)

[Mossfinn]

[*]Married to Thai visa

Crikey, I never knew that being addicted to this Forum would give you a route to staying?

I know I should get out more.

Moss

[PeaceBlondie]

If I were Thai, how would I change immigration law? That is an unimaginable fantasy or nightmare. If I were Thai, I might be teaching Thai to Tai Yai immigrants in far western MaeHongSon. I might be a prostitute or pimp, prison inmate, som tam vendor, etc., but it is extremely unlikely that I would be in a position to be changing immigration law or policy.

Ask me if I were President of the USA, or Pope, or a time share salesman in Goa. It was not made as a nonsense question, but I cannot imagine being Thai, or even speaking the language fluently, or eating all the food willingly. Have a nice time in Thailand.

[LPCustom69]

If I were Thai, I would agree with this post.

If you were a Thai and were able to be instrumental in changing immigration laws, how would you do it for the good of Thailand.

To keep this simple I am only going to list a few of the most used visas. Feel free to add one if you wish. You can respond to one, all or none at all - your choice.

• Illegal immigrant or visa overstay. What should punishment be if any?
  
• Tourist visa
  
• Work visa
  
• Married to Thai visa
  
• Retirement visa
  
• Other
  

It is assumed that you understand the existing laws or you would not know what you are changing. DO REMEMBER you are looking at this is a Thai not a farang, so do what you think is best for Thailand not your farang self.

Tell us what you would change and how it would help Thailand. Thailand is counting on you. [/font]

Illegal immigrant or visa overstay. What should punishment be if any?

200000 baht fine for each month up to 12 months of overstay, include part year over 12 months as one year and immediate deportation at their expense. Indefinite stay in jail until can raise funds for fine and deportation

Tourist visa

6 months maximum stay in Thailand per year over any time or in split periods within 12 months. Overstayers, 200000 baht fine for each month up to 12 months of overstay, include part year over 12 months as one year and immediate deportation at their expense. Indefinite stay in jail until can raise funds for fine and deportation

Work visa

One year maximum. Change or lose job before 12 months without informing Immigration: 200000 baht fine for each month up to 12 months of overstay, include part year over 12 months as one year and immediate deportation at their expense. Indefinite stay in jail until can raise funds for fine and deportation. Penalty for claiming work permit by deception, 200000 baht fine and a mandatory 5-year jail sentence.

Married to Thai visa

Non (O) visa for a maximum of 12 months. Increase visa stake to 1 million baht, present rules pertaining to property ownership etc to apply. This method makes it easier to eliminate marriages of convenience. Overstayers: 200000 baht fine for each month up to 12 months of overstay, include part year over 12 months as one year and immediate deportation at their expense. Indefinite stay in jail until can raise funds for fine and deportation

Retirement visa

Non (O) for a maximum of 12 months. Increase visa stake investment to 2 million baht, including for those retirees who are still residing here for the ridiculous low amount of only 200000 baht per year visa stake. Present rules pertaining to property ownership etc to apply. Overstayers 200000 baht fine for each month up to 12 months of overstay, include part year over 12 months as one year and immediate deportation at their expense. Indefinite stay in jail until can raise funds for fine and deportation

Other

All foreign visa applicants to acquire documents from their home country police departments confirming what is, or what is not on criminal file about them.

Terminate the visa runs and impose all foreign visa applicants to use the system as I quoted above.