Has Living In Thailand Made You More Or Less Nationalistic?

[madjbs]

I think the UK and many of the other countries in Europe made enough mess of things in the Middle East and Africa before the US ever got involved.

[garro]

To those that would say the US is a war monger... The British and Australians were also in Iraq, the EU is also in Afghanistan. The French were in Vietnam before the US. The rest of the UN was in Korea. The UK and the rest of Europe, except maybe the French , fought in Europe during WWII.

I don't remember reading about any European countries complaining that the US was a war monger during WWII. Sure it is good that the US is a war monger when it saves you asses, but otherwise it is a negative thing.

I think the UK and many of the other countries in Europe made enough mess of things in the Middle East and Africa before the US ever got involved.

Do you get your opinions from Fox News?

Thanks for making me laugh.

[jstumbo]

I think the US bashing is partly just jealousy. The US is seen by many as the superpower of the world. People from other countries then want to say, why is it the superpower? Look how bad it is, my country is better. They think their country should be the leader of the world.

This excuse always makes me laugh, from my experience it could not be further from the truth. Most countries are not interested in trying to rule the world, the fact that the U.S wants to is what people find so annoying, the rest of the world is quite happy minding their own buisiness.

Unfortunately the world is not a small place. Things that happen halfway around the world do affect other countries.

When I say leader of the world I do not mean in a literal sense. I mean that the US and its "culture" is what most of the world goes after. People watch American TV, American Movies, American Music all over the world. Not much demand for German movies or music in Thailand or anywhere outside of a few countries in Europe. More people want to immigrate to the US then other countries. Go anywhere in the world and you could probably find English language movies, magazines, but that would not be the case with German or French or Spanish.

[Naam]

The EU now has a central government, has a common foreign policy, has courts, has everything that a national government has.

WRONG!

[jstumbo]

To those that would say the US is a war monger... The British and Australians were also in Iraq, the EU is also in Afghanistan. The French were in Vietnam before the US. The rest of the UN was in Korea. The UK and the rest of Europe, except maybe the French , fought in Europe during WWII.

I don't remember reading about any European countries complaining that the US was a war monger during WWII. Sure it is good that the US is a war monger when it saves you asses, but otherwise it is a negative thing.

I think the UK and many of the other countries in Europe made enough mess of things in the Middle East and Africa before the US ever got involved.

Do you get your opinions from Fox News?

Thanks for making me laugh.

Glad to help You may laugh but it is true.

Is it not true that the UK is, and Australia was in Iraq? Is it not true that EU/NATO has forces in Afghanistan? Is it not true that the French were in Vietnam fighting right before the US? Is it not true that all these countries were fighting in Korea? Is it not true that several colonial European countries were in the Middle East, and Africa and left things a mess there? If all of these other countries were involved in these wars, why is it the US that is the only war monger?

I have not heard anyone complain that the US was a war monger when it came to WWII. I guess we should have stayed on our side of the ocean and let the Germans have Europe. I guess we should have minded our own business.

I do not like that the US is in Iraq, big mistake. And our president is a boob.

[madjbs]

Unfortunately the world is not a small place. Things that happen halfway around the world do affect other countries.

When I say leader of the world I do not mean in a literal sense. I mean that the US and its "culture" is what most of the world goes after. People watch American TV, American Movies, American Music all over the world. Not much demand for German movies or music in Thailand or anywhere outside of a few countries in Europe. More people want to immigrate to the US then other countries. Go anywhere in the world and you could probably find English language movies, magazines, but that would not be the case with German or French or Spanish.

I don't think many people really aspire to American culture. Do Americans aspire to be Chinese because most of the products they use everyday are made there? It just so happens you guys produce a lot of music and movies, if it was another country then people would get their movies and music there instead, people don't buy them because they are American .

Edited April 20, 2008 by madjbs

[jstumbo]

The EU now has a central government, has a common foreign policy, has courts, has everything that a national government has.

WRONG!

I am sorry. I was mistaken when I read about an EU President and Parliament (US President and Congress).

I am sorry. I was mistaken when I read about the EU representatives that were sent to China to talk about business with the EU. (US Trade Representatives)

I am sorry, I was mistaken when I read about being able to get a single visa that allowed a person to visit many "countries" in Europe.

I am sorry, I was mistaken when I read about EU Court of Justice (US Supreme court).

I am sorry, I was mistaken when I read about the EU Central Bank (US Central Bank).

I am sorry, I was mistaken when I used Euros to pay my hotel bill in 4 different "countries". (US Dollar, only better )

I am sorry, when I drove around Europe and somehow missed the immigration border checkpoints that made it seem like driving from one state to another state in the US instead of driving from one country to another.

I am sorry, I was mistaken when I thought that EU countries cannot make laws that are in opposition to the EU laws and court rulings.

OK, maybe it is not a single country yet, but it is not very far from it and it is only a matter of time.

Edited April 20, 2008 by jstumbo

[madjbs]

Is it not true that the UK is, and Australia was in Iraq?

Yes, but who initiated the whole thing? Other countries would never have invaded if the U.S wasn't such an Important allie to them. U.S troops far outweigh any other troops there.

Is it not true that EU/NATO has forces in Afghanistan?

Yes, I think Afghanistan was justified

Is it not true that the French were in Vietnam fighting right before the US?

Thats a strange one, who was it that carpet bombed vast areas of Vietnam AND it's neighbours, killing thousands of innocent people.

Is it not true that all these countries were fighting in Korea?

Dont Know

Is it not true that several colonial European countries were in the Middle East, and Africa and left things a mess there?

Can't see how this has any relevance

If all of these other countries were involved in these wars, why is it the US that is the only war monger?

See above

Also, who is now threatening to invade Iran? (thank god Bush doesn't have enough time to see that through)

I have not heard anyone complain that the US was a war monger when it came to WWII. I guess we should have stayed on our side of the ocean and let the Germans have Europe. I guess we should have minded our own business.

The U.S was attacked first and they hardly entered the war purely out of good will did they?

I do not like that the US is in Iraq, big mistake. And our president is a boob.

Agree with that!

[GuestHouse]

I wouldn’t class myself as a nationalist, not by a long way – BUT…..

I am very aware that I won life’s lottery by being born in my own country – With inalienable rights of citizenship and residence, access to a great education, the civilized provision of health and welfare and, importantly, at time when I and my family have enjoyed peace and prosperity, free for fear or want.

Born on the same day almost anywhere else on the planet (with a few exceptions) would have denied me the opportunities and good fortune I have enjoyed and continue to enjoy.

[YoungFarang13]

yes, its funny how much the farang in Thailand think their own country is superior, yet choose to stay in Thailand.

[Naam]

OK, maybe it is not a single country yet, but it is not very far from it and it is only a matter of time.

sorry, but you are wrong again.

[madjbs]

it is only a matter of time

No way, It would never be accepted by the public. There is already a backlash now and most countries have very little interference from the EU anyway.

[PeaceBlondie]

As a more-or-less, blindly patriotic American for my first 30-some years, despite a liberal education at universities, it never dawned on me that nationalism was a SIN. An upper-case, Protestant, Christian SIN. When the words of the New Testament convinced me to become pacifist rather than patriotic, the blinders fell off and I realized what the enemy is. The enemy is not so much a person, as national people killing in the name of God-Country. I now see that nationalism and Nazism are related. With the Quakers, we protested the first Gulf war, and one of the posters said, "Sadaam Hussein is not Satan, and the USA is not God." My shirt read, "Jesus is a Pacifist. Why Aren't All Christians Pacifists?"

So, to answer garro's question, living abroad did not make me more or less nationalistic, but becoming anti-nationalistic at home helped me be willing to live abroad.

[jstumbo]

Is it not true that the UK is, and Australia was in Iraq?

Yes, but who initiated the whole thing? Other countries would never have invaded if the U.S wasn't such an Important allie to them. U.S troops far outweigh any other troops there.

So I guess Europe is just a bunch of followers that cannot make up their own mind. Why would the US be in Important allie to have if they are such a bad country?

Is it not true that EU/NATO has forces in Afghanistan?

Yes, I think Afghanistan was justified

So it is OK if they are war mongers, but only on causes that you feel are justified. I will let the white house know to check with you next time.

[jstumbo]

Is it not true that the French were in Vietnam fighting right before the US?

Thats a strange one, who was it that carpet bombed vast areas of Vietnam AND it's neighbours, killing thousands of innocent people.

And who was it that was responsible for the Blitz and the V2 rockets on London during WWII? Who was it that was responsible for the firebombing of Germany during WWII?

Is it not true that all these countries were fighting in Korea?

Dont Know

Yes, here is a list of the countries:

Australia

Belgium

Canada

China

Colombia

Denmark

Ethiopia

France

Greece

India

Italy

Luxembourg

Netherlands

New Zealand

North Korea

Norway

Philippines

South Africa

South Korea

Soviet Union

Sweden

Thailand

Turkey

United Kingdom

United States

Is it not true that several colonial European countries were in the Middle East, and Africa and left things a mess there?

Can't see how this has any relevance

You seem to think the US is running around telling other people what to do. Wanting to control the world. Why should we not think about the European nations that did that and left much of the world in a mess?

[jstumbo]

If all of these other countries were involved in these wars, why is it the US that is the only war monger?

See above

Also, who is now threatening to invade Iran? (thank god Bush doesn't have enough time to see that through)

It is called tough talk, and I do not believe he has actually said that we are going to invade. It would never happen. I guess you think we should just ask them really nicely and tell them that if they don't that we will jump up and down and cry? If they did not feel that they have something to lose, they would never change their path.

I have not heard anyone complain that the US was a war monger when it came to WWII. I guess we should have stayed on our side of the ocean and let the Germans have Europe. I guess we should have minded our own business.

The U.S was attacked first and they hardly entered the war purely out of good will did they?

The US was not attacked by Germany. It was attacked by Japan. We had no need to go to war with Germany. There was actually a big movement in the US at the time to keep the US out of Europe. Too bad they were not strong enough to overcome the war mongers in the government.

I do not like that the US is in Iraq, big mistake. And our president is a boob.

Agree with that!

At least we can agree on one thing.

I do not like that the US is in this role. I think it is a mistake and I believe the US should practice some isolationism. Pull back for a while. But to say that the US is any more of a waring state than many other countries is just plain wrong.

[lannarebirth]

it is only a matter of time

No way, It would never be accepted by the public. There is already a backlash now and most countries have very little interference from the EU anyway.

As ever, it's all about the monry:

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Anyhow, living in Thailand has made me neither more or less nationalistic. I've lived almost half my life outside the country of my birth. I've lived in 5 foreign countries, hold 3 passports (2 because I could, and have since expired), PR in another country and a retirement visa here. With the passage of time I've been able to gain perspective on what is good and bad about my birth country. Over time these beliefs have changed from what they once were and I expect they will change more in the future.

I think many non Americans believe Americans are nationalistic. It has been my experience that they are one of the least nationalistic nations on earth, and certainly one of the most welcoming to those persons of other nations.

[Naam]

And who was it that was responsible for the Blitz and the V2 rockets on London during WWII? Who was it that was responsible for the firebombing of Germany during WWII?

if i'm not mistaken the descendants of the Bounty mutineers were responsible. they built a sailboat with the remnants of the Bounty, sailed all the way from the south pacific and caused havoc in Europe. they were called Vikings (i think)

[madjbs]

The difference is that Europeans stopped doing that many years ago whereas the U.S has carried on.

It's obvious why you need to be an allie to the U.S isn't it? If you oppose the U.S and have any kind of power they implement all kind of trade restrictions etc... on you. If you have atomic weapons you become terrorists and Bush puts you on his axis of evil list.

[pampal]

I was more nationalistic when I was younger, but now I don't really differentiate anymore

[madjbs]

I think many non Americans believe Americans are nationalistic. It has been my experience that they are one of the least nationalistic nations on earth, and certainly one of the most welcoming to those persons of other nations.

I would agree, I have some very good American friends and they are able to criticize their government and country as good as the next person. They also happen to be some of the kindest, fun friends to be around. It seems that there is quite a large group of people in America though that will argue until they are blue in the face to defend their country, rightly or wrongly (generally right wingers by the looks of things). Unfortunately the current administration seems to be made up mostly of people of this type.

Edited April 20, 2008 by madjbs

[Naam]

The US was not attacked by Germany. It was attacked by Japan. We had no need to go to war with Germany. There was actually a big movement in the US at the time to keep the US out of Europe.

that is correct. unfortunately us bloody Tchermanns declared war on the United States stipulated in/by the "Berlin-Tokyo Axis Agreement". the same bullshit happened when World War I started. Austria declared war on Serbia because some dummy austrian crown prince was murdered. Russia's agreement with Serbia forced it to declare war on Austria. Germany honoured the so-called "Nibelungen Agreement" and declared war on Russia. then the avalanche of bullshit could not be stopped

<deleted> all wars and killings!

[plachon]

Woohooo! This thread is turning into the old TV, pre-bearpit days!

Careful now boys and girls to not step over that fuzzy line in the sand.

FWIW, like some others, I have not become more or less nationalistic by living half my adult life overseas, but the experience has made me see my own country in a more critical light. Hence, the warts stand out more and the beauty spots become more beautiful!

[jstumbo]

The difference is that Europeans stopped doing that many years ago whereas the U.S has carried on.

It's obvious why you need to be an allie to the U.S isn't it? If you oppose the U.S and have any kind of power they implement all kind of trade restrictions etc... on you. If you have atomic weapons you become terrorists and Bush puts you on his axis of evil list.

Switzerland has not been fighting anywhere and I do not remember any trade restrictions against them.

Since WWII, the Europeans were not in Korea, they were not in SE Asia, they were not in Iraq either time, they were not in Afghanistan?

So I guess you do not believe that Iran supports terrorist groups? That if they had atomic weapons that they might not find there way into some radical terrorist groups hands? Your probably not too worried if that happened because you know that the US is a bigger target and they would use them there first.

[garro]

If people weren't so nationalistic there would be no wars. People who see themselves as members of the human population, instead of a countries population, are far less likely to invade, rape, torture, humiliate, and murder. That is my view. Nationalism only really serves the interest of a small elite.

[madjbs]

So I guess you do not believe that Iran supports terrorist groups? That if they had atomic weapons that they might not find there way into some radical terrorist groups hands? Your probably not too worried if that happened because you know that the US is a bigger target and they would use them there first.

Does Iran support terrorist groups? Or do they support groups that are beneficial to their own interests, much like the U.S does. The U.S has supported groups that many others would call terrorists as well you know, only that because you are American you can't possibly see it in that way.

Edited April 20, 2008 by madjbs

[jstumbo]

The US was not attacked by Germany. It was attacked by Japan. We had no need to go to war with Germany. There was actually a big movement in the US at the time to keep the US out of Europe.

that is correct. unfortunately us bloody Tchermanns declared war on the United States stipulated in/by the "Berlin-Tokyo Axis Agreement". the same bullshit happened when World War I started. Austria declared war on Serbia because some dummy austrian crown prince was murdered. Russia's agreement with Serbia forced it to declare war on Austria. Germany honoured the so-called "Nibelungen Agreement" and declared war on Russia. then the avalanche of bullshit could not be stopped

<deleted> all wars and killings!

I agree. I hate wars. Everything should be done to prevent them. But sometimes there are just differences that cannot be handled without it. If one party does not want to talk and nothing you can say will make them change their mind. Then sometimes you do not have a choice.

Kind of like with Korean War. North Korea invades the south. We could have talked to them all we wanted and told them how bad it was that they did that and that they should go back over the border. But in the end the only way to make them do it was to force them at the end of a gun.

Kind of like if a bully beats up your child every day. You talk with the parents and they don't care. You talk with the kid and he does not care. You talk with the police and they do not care. You talk with the school and they do not care. What do you do if you cannot move? Does your child just have to be beaten up every day, or does something eventually have to be done about it?

[rixalex]

This thread was supposed to be about your feelings towards your home nation, and yet the discussion seems to have quickly become about how you feel towards other nations.

Loving your own country too much is dangerous, as is hating another. We all bleed when cut, have two legs, two arms. What's all the fuss about where you happen to have been born. It's not like we have any say in the matter.

[madjbs]

Pakistan has atomic weapons and an abundant Al Quaeda population in the north (real terrorists, even according to Muslim people) mountainous regions. There is already a high likelihood that those weapons could fall into their hands due to the support from certain divisions of the Pakistani army and very poor security.

If the U.S wants to invade Iran to stop any risk of terrorists gaining weapons and not because Iran opposes the U.S in most ways, then why isn't the U.S in Pakistan as well, helping the Pakistani army and insuring no dirty work takes place?

Luckily, I think once Bush leaves this whole Iran thing will disappear.

Edited April 20, 2008 by madjbs

[Jingthing]

Pakistan has atomic weapons and an abundant Al Quaeda population in the north (real terrorists, even according to Muslim people) mountainous regions. There is already a high likelihood that weapons could fall into their hands due to the support from certain divisions of the Pakistani army and very poor security.

If the U.S wants to invade Iran to stop any risk of terrorist gaining weapons and not because Iran opposes the U.S in most ways, then why isn't the U.S in Pakistan as well, helping the Pakistani army and insuring no dirty work takes place?

It is false to say the US wants to invade Iran or wants a war with Iran. The US couldn't even handle Iraq, so the ultimate winner in Iraq has been Iran, which is now very strong. The US can and will defend Israel against the threats of Iran if Israel needs help with that. Iran has threatened to destroy Israel; if you doubt that is their goal, you are very naive. That is what allies do, defend their friends. Nobody wants war, but you have to wonder if Iran does. The pie in the sky cheek turning peaceniks here are not awake to what kind of world we live in. Note well the mainstream left in the US of course knows the Iraq war was a tragic error, but that does not mean they do not fully support the justifiable retaliation in Afghanistan and would not also fully support a defensive war against Iran aggression. The reason the US could not get involved in Pakistan is because it is politically impossible, not because we didn't want to. Call it nationalism or call it fighting for the survival of the west, up to you.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Jingthing