Working With The Thais, Wandering Through Thai Culture

[mymonkeyhusb]

I am recently read two books, Working With The Thais and Wandering Through Thai Culture, which helped me understand the deep culture that Thais use to live their lives. I encourage anyone with frustrations and confusion about this culture to read these books. For myself, the books actually confirmed my suspicions about the culture and helped me be true to my thoughts, ideas and resulting attitudes towards this country. I don't claim these books will make you the authority on Thai culture, but they did help me personally to first; understand why Thais behave the way they do and second; come to terms with the actual way life is played out here (so I can decide what is and is not acceptable to my principles). I find reducing my naivety about how Thai people think allows me to have more control over my own life and successfully deal with the pitfalls, snares and potential danger in living here... and, on the positive side, to know how to adapt my expressions of love towards Thai people in a way they are used to and can understand.

[Samuian]

Well, some of these readings may help to understand certain situations, cultural behavior, there is hardly a remedy against plain and simple envy, jealousy, blackmail, backstabbing and competing through the "back door"... all the way up to belittling.

People in leading positions may find themselves one day in a complete isolated situation, all the staff knows, but NOT one will talk..trying to befriend with one of the group will cause them to be isolated as well...knowing that nobody is going to talk about a "problem", which hasn't been created by the concerning person him/herself but by (maybe) just one member of a group, who then managed to build a group, like a cordon around him/her, using it as to his/her convinience! Very, very difficult situation!

Any solution?

Edited April 21, 2008 by Samuian

[GuestHouse]

Well, some of these readings may help to understand certain situations, cultural behavior, there is hardly a remedy against plain and simple envy, jealousy, blackmail, backstabbing and competing through the "back door"... all the way up to belittling.

People in leading positions may find themselves one day in a complete isolated situation, all the staff knows, but NOT one will talk..trying to befriend with one of the group will cause them to be isolated as well...knowing that nobody is going to talk about a "problem", which hasn't been created by the concerning person him/herself but by (maybe) just one member of a group, who then managed to build a group, like a cordon around him/her, using it as to his/her convinience! Very, very difficult situation!

Any solution?

If you started off with a "leading position" - something that in Thai culture would automatically give you a leading edge on the respect front, and then you've managed to loose that position of respect, while maitaining the 'Post' - then I'm afraid its a certain bet that you are beyond help.

It's not a question of how do you regain authority and respect, but how not to loose it in the first place.

Managing People - Rule No 1.....

You remember being told 'People have to earn respect'

Well Rule No 1 of managing people - we none of us should need to earn respect - we start with respect... If you choose to then loose it, that's up to you.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Well, some of these readings may help to understand certain situations, cultural behavior, there is hardly a remedy against plain and simple envy, jealousy, blackmail, backstabbing and competing through the "back door"... all the way up to belittling.

People in leading positions may find themselves one day in a complete isolated situation, all the staff knows, but NOT one will talk..trying to befriend with one of the group will cause them to be isolated as well...knowing that nobody is going to talk about a "problem", which hasn't been created by the concerning person him/herself but by (maybe) just one member of a group, who then managed to build a group, like a cordon around him/her, using it as to his/her convinience! Very, very difficult situation!

Any solution?

If you started off with a "leading position" - something that in Thai culture would automatically give you a leading edge on the respect front, and then you've managed to loose that position of respect, while maitaining the 'Post' - then I'm afraid its a certain bet that you are beyond help.

It's not a question of how do you regain authority and respect, but how not to loose it in the first place.

Managing People - Rule No 1.....

You remember being told 'People have to earn respect'

Well Rule No 1 of managing people - we none of us should need to earn respect - we start with respect... If you choose to then loose it, that's up to you.

The world according to Guesthouse... Do you NEVER climb down from your moral high ground? I guess you don't, it must be so high up and the hill so steep it would not be worth it...

[GuestHouse]

The world according to Guesthouse... Do you NEVER climb down from your moral high ground? I guess you don't, it must be so high up and the hill so steep it would not be worth it...

And your contribution is?!

Zilch - Just a personal attack.

Edited April 21, 2008 by GuestHouse

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

The world according to Guesthouse... Do you NEVER climb down from your moral high ground? I guess you don't, it must be so high up and the hill so steep it would not be worth it...

And your contribution is?!

Zilch - Just a personal attack.

Yes true, it was meant as an observation, not contribution. To call it an attack is a bit over the top methinks.

[way2muchcoffee]

sounded like an attack to me....

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Well, some of these readings may help to understand certain situations, cultural behavior, there is hardly a remedy against plain and simple envy, jealousy, blackmail, backstabbing and competing through the "back door"... all the way up to belittling.

People in leading positions may find themselves one day in a complete isolated situation, all the staff knows, but NOT one will talk..trying to befriend with one of the group will cause them to be isolated as well...knowing that nobody is going to talk about a "problem", which hasn't been created by the concerning person him/herself but by (maybe) just one member of a group, who then managed to build a group, like a cordon around him/her, using it as to his/her convinience! Very, very difficult situation!

Any solution?

If you started off with a "leading position" - something that in Thai culture would automatically give you a leading edge on the respect front, and then you've managed to loose that position of respect, while maitaining the 'Post' - then I'm afraid its a certain bet that you are beyond help.

It's not a question of how do you regain authority and respect, but how not to loose it in the first place.

Managing People - Rule No 1.....

You remember being told 'People have to earn respect'

Well Rule No 1 of managing people - we none of us should need to earn respect - we start with respect... If you choose to then loose it, that's up to you.

GH

Nice theory on how the world SHOULD be. Unfortunately reality differs sometimes.

No one should be starving in the world. Not really wise to react to the fact no-one should be starving. Better to react that they are and deal with it.

BTW Would disagree with it being Rule # 1. Plenty of priorities above that in good management.

Samuian

Don't think OP is holding these books up to be a panacea for everything Thai. Would agree with OP that "Working with The Thais" is a useful book for understanding many issues. One minor criticism of the book was that it highlighted many issues, but was often a bit thin on how to resolve them or solutions though...

[solent01]

And me, I mostly find GH opinion on things to be pretty close, if not spot on, IMHO of course.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

And me, I mostly find GH opinion on things to be pretty close, if not spot on, IMHO of course.

And so do I.

I guess you are surprised by that statement, but it is true, mostly GH comes through as an intelligent and helpful poster, but quite often with a "holier-than-thou" image. However, even Mr. Perfect can disappoint, and he does sometimes. And what got me to "attack" was the way he stated that if you have ANY problems with your Thai staff, it is your own lack of earned respect (my rendering of his post, it is not accurately quoted, just to get the drift).

I can agree to a point, but then reason has to take over. You as a foreigner is NOT in full control of a staff of Thai (or any nationality for that matter). If you believe so, be my guest(house). Sorry, a bad pun.

[steveromagnino]

I can agree to a point, but then reason has to take over. You as a foreigner is NOT in full control of a staff of Thai (or any nationality for that matter). If you believe so, be my guest(house). Sorry, a bad pun.

It is virtually fact that even the most young inexperienced manager here as a foreigner (unless perhaps, if they are Indian or Philipino arguably) starts off in a position of respect by virtue of the 'title' the reality that they were appointed to the job by someone higher up in the organisation and as a result of earning more money.

Age is not the biggest thing for a foreigner based here.

But how quickly some manage to screw things up from there......

One of the companies I used to consult to had a 45 year old middle aged upper class bloke running things; within 1 year most staff had little respect for him, and he started it by having little respect for those staff. And the guy was actually very capable, he was great at his job, but just not a good manager or leader.

His replacement is nearly 1/2 his age, also foreign, but while the staff were initially a little skeptical (some being aged 45+ themselves) he got to his position thanks to a superior appointing him, and he has behaved in a manner befitting a senior executive.

Thus the staff love and respect him.

Being a manager anywhere is not exactly rocket science. But act like a moron and the consequences will come back and bite you.

Incidentally, at that same organisation, staff were aware that I was directly or indirectly responsible for 5 out of 7 senior managers being made redundant/fired; and a further 10-20 line staff losing their jobs for various infractions. It was a bit of a mess and friends of staff still there now had a tough time.

Handling things professionally and in a way that minimised lost face meant everyone could get on with things in a professional way.

Respect for teachers, managers, senority is a two edged sword, and can be used very effectively by the right foreigners; if anything foreign management has it far easier than Thai management in that regard (as a 1/2 I play it both ways).

All managers will, if managing long enough, have problems with staff. But how you handle things and the fall out thereafter; THAT'S what being a manager is all about.

*edited to correct terrible grammar*

Edited April 21, 2008 by steveromagnino