Benzene May Hit 45 Baht Per Liter & Diesel Could Hit 38 Baht Per Liter In The Next Few Days

[Plus]

The public will choose the most comfortable way of getting around, and that is indeed driving. It will no longer be the most comfortable way of getting around once they can no longer afford it.

It's not only just more comfortable, it's the cheapest way around, too.

What you are trying to propose is suburbs without cars, or metropolis without suburbs. This the opposite how Bangkok, or any other major city in the world has been growing since WWII when cars became a general commodity.

Yeah, and bucking the trend is what non-comformists have always done.

Basically you are proposing a pie in the sky solution that doesn't exist but will work in Bangkok. The magic of an executive decision, I guess.

Entry level of what? The price of cars? Or the price of houses?

Actually both. If cars become too expensive to buy, no one will buy houses in suburbs, too.

At the moment it makes more sense to buy a car and a big house on the outskirts than a small condo downtown, let alone a house close to city center. If cars become unaffordable, demand and prices for real estate close to public transport routes will increase, too. Double whammy - you get a smaller place in a noisy, crowded area, and a bus.

I'm not saying there will be buses or trains built into your neighborhood, just nearby on a main artery. You'll find your own way to get to it. Might be a little sweaty, but you'll be cooled down just fine in the aircon on board. If you don't want to have that option, you could always just work harder and avoid the whole thing.

Then we will be in for another round of tax increase. Thais already pay 20-30% more for their cars than westerners, they already have to work for two three years to pay for them, yet it's still not hard enough by your estimate, they still do not deserve their cars.

It looks like you are hel_l bent on keeping millions of your compatriots in third world squalor so that they don't encroach on superrich class creature comforts.

[jumnien]

There are two trends happening worldwide that are unstoppable. People are buying more cars and their asses are getting bigger. Raising the price of fuel or cars or rice or other food commodities will do nothing to stop this trend. It is immutable.

[Plus]

There are ways of dealing with long commutes. Home office is what I personally like. For many tasks you don't actually need a body present, they can be done remotely. Face to face meetings could be replaced with video-conferencing and so on.

I've read that Bank of Thailand is trying something like that already. Not everyday and not for all employees - about once a week, and they have it on rotation.

[Heng]

It's not only just more comfortable, it's the cheapest way around, too.

Not for society as a whole, not for the individual now or especially under a price/tax increase program.

Basically you are proposing a pie in the sky solution that doesn't exist but will work in Bangkok. The magic of an executive decision, I guess.

I happen to love pie AND magic. ...I guess.

Actually both. If cars become too expensive to buy, no one will buy houses in suburbs, too.

At the moment it makes more sense to buy a car and a big house on the outskirts than a small condo downtown, let alone a house close to city center. If cars become unaffordable, demand and prices for real estate close to public transport routes will increase, too. Double whammy - you get a smaller place in a noisy, crowded area, and a bus.

Maybe for you. But that's the way the market is. As to your conclusion as to whether that would create noisy, crowded areas... (in a city? who would have guessed?), people can choose to live where and how they want, depending on whether they can afford it or not. They can continue to choose to drive or not drive depending on whether they prefer it (plenty do not) and of course if they can afford it or not.

Then we will be in for another round of tax increase. Thais already pay 20-30% more for their cars than westerners, they already have to work for two three years to pay for them, yet it's still not hard enough by your estimate, they still do not deserve their cars.

It looks like you are hel_l bent on keeping millions of your compatriots in third world squalor so that they don't encroach on superrich class creature comforts.

Comparing how much they pay with others isn't the point. The point is getting traffic under control. It's not a question of deserving a car or not. I'm saying they deserve better driving/riding conditions. All people.

LOLZ. There you go again. Keeping folks from using cars is not the same as keeping them in third world squalor. You're a drama queen. This is a move to improve the quality of life for all classes.

[usatrader]

In my own small EU country I paid € 1,54/liter or Baht 77,3/liter, last Saturday; that's with an unmanned station.

The 'normal price is € 1,63/liter which is Baht 81,8/liter (That's 309,6 Baht/Gallon or US $ 9,66/Gallon)

This morning the newspapers warned that the time we have to pay € 2/liter or Baht 100/liter isn't far....time to start walking again

-Minimum wage in France (net, for 151 hours per month) 1 030 euros = 6,82 euro per hour = 54 euros per day = 2 700 THB

-Minimum wage in Bangkok per day = 190 THB

I wasn't comparing EU gas prices with Thailand but merely with the US.

Why the EU has to suffer -more than 50%+ - for gas prices is a mystery to many.

$ 3.75/gallon in the USA OR Baht 120,1/gallon = Baht 31,7/liter

or

$ 9,66/gallon in my EU country is a huge difference. (Baht 81,7/liter)

or

$ 5,31/gallon in Thailand (Baht 170,3/Gallon or 45 Baht/liter)

The -complaining- Americans AND the Presidency candidates, now using gas prices as a BIG ISSUE in the President's Race in their country should feel ashamed....even more ashamed, realizing that POOR Thai have to pay a lot more for the same gas as their RICH US counterpart car driver

LaoPo

Ay, yes the smell of napalm politics in the morning, it has the stench of Spleen oops, equanimity?

[cclub75]

Are they big enough failures to conclude that the expressways, BTS, and MRT should not have been built or that the bus system be scrapped altogether though? Or that any improvement should not be attempted? That sounds like Plus' reasoning here.

Well... 2 facts :

-it's not enough (1 line BTS, 1 line of underground train... for a city of 10 millions people ? ! Therefore it's not a solution, , not even the beginning of a solution, if you look at the scale of the problem we face)

-I try to go further than the "look". BTS looks nice. But it's a financial mess with a debt of more than 40 billions THB.

Who is going to pay ? The passengers ? The thai state wants to buy the company. With what ? And to do what exactly ?

SRT, BMTA.... again easy to see that those "companies" (ah ah ah ah) are not even a mess, but total disaster. You can't deny it.

It would make sense to boost the development of train lines for instance, for passengers and fret... But again look at the state of SRT ! It's unbelievable.

Do you realize the amount of money required to put SRT back on track if I may say ? Basically they need to double the tracks ALL OVER THE COUNTRY and to replace ALL THE COACHES and ALL THE LOCOMOTIVES and to fire at least HALF of the "employees"...

My point : we are way beyond the point of "improvement". This is what you refuse to see.

This is reality principle.

It's already difficult to have alternative transport and energy policies in Europe and in the US. So, it makes no sense to say that everything will be fine in Thailand, to be optimistic for the sake of being optimistic, to say with a condescending smile to our thai friends "it's a good beginning... continue your efforts"...

It's going actually to be much worse, much more difficult. So difficult that it could be simply... impossible.

[133 USD for oil right now... Everything is under control. It's just speculation. And Samak is going to save us with the... referendum he wants to organize... about the new new constitution This is why i'm totally pessimistic... ]

Edited May 21, 2008 by cclub75

[Heng]

Are they big enough failures to conclude that the expressways, BTS, and MRT should not have been built or that the bus system be scrapped altogether though? Or that any improvement should not be attempted? That sounds like Plus' reasoning here.

Well... 2 facts :

-it's not enough (1 line BTS, 1 line of underground train... for a city of 10 millions people ? ! Therefore it's not a solution, , not even the beginning of a solution, if you look at the scale of the problem we face)

-I try to go further than the "look". BTS looks nice. But it's a financial mess with a debt of more than 40 billions THB.

Who is going to pay ? The passengers ? The thai state wants to buy the company. With what ? And to do what exactly ?

SRT, BMTA.... again easy to see that those "companies" (ah ah ah ah) are not even a mess, but total disaster. You can't deny it.

It would make sense to boost the development of train lines for instance, for passengers and fret... But again look at the state of SRT ! It's unbelievable.

Do you realize the amount of money required to put SRT back on track if I may say ? Basically they need to double the tracks ALL OVER THE COUNTRY and to replace ALL THE COACHES and ALL THE LOCOMOTIVES and to fire at least HALF of the "employees"...

My point : we are way beyond the point of "improvement". This is what you refuse to see.

This is reality principle.

It's already difficult to have alternative transport and energy policies in Europe and in the US. So, it makes no sense to say that everything will be fine in Thailand, to be optimistic for the sake of being optimistic, to say with a condescending smile to our thai friends "it's a good beginning... continue your efforts"...

It's going actually to be much worse, much more difficult. So difficult that it could be simply... impossible.

[133 USD for oil right now... Everything is under control. It's just speculation. And Samak is going to save us with the... referendum he wants to organize... about the new new constitution This is why i'm totally pessimistic... ]

Does that mean you think abandonment of said projects for scrap would be the more intelligent decision? Not refusing to see anything, by the way.

[scotbeve]

Are they big enough failures to conclude that the expressways, BTS, and MRT should not have been built or that the bus system be scrapped altogether though? Or that any improvement should not be attempted? That sounds like Plus' reasoning here.

Well... 2 facts :

-it's not enough (1 line BTS, 1 line of underground train... for a city of 10 millions people ? ! Therefore it's not a solution, , not even the beginning of a solution, if you look at the scale of the problem we face)

-I try to go further than the "look". BTS looks nice. But it's a financial mess with a debt of more than 40 billions THB.

Who is going to pay ? The passengers ? The thai state wants to buy the company. With what ? And to do what exactly ?

SRT, BMTA.... again easy to see that those "companies" (ah ah ah ah) are not even a mess, but total disaster. You can't deny it.

It would make sense to boost the development of train lines for instance, for passengers and fret... But again look at the state of SRT ! It's unbelievable.

Do you realize the amount of money required to put SRT back on track if I may say ? Basically they need to double the tracks ALL OVER THE COUNTRY and to replace ALL THE COACHES and ALL THE LOCOMOTIVES and to fire at least HALF of the "employees"...

My point : we are way beyond the point of "improvement". This is what you refuse to see.

This is reality principle.

It's already difficult to have alternative transport and energy policies in Europe and in the US. So, it makes no sense to say that everything will be fine in Thailand, to be optimistic for the sake of being optimistic, to say with a condescending smile to our thai friends "it's a good beginning... continue your efforts"...

It's going actually to be much worse, much more difficult. So difficult that it could be simply... impossible.

[133 USD for oil right now... Everything is under control. It's just speculation. And Samak is going to save us with the... referendum he wants to organize... about the new new constitution This is why i'm totally pessimistic... ]

Does that mean you think abandonment of said projects for scrap would be the more intelligent decision? Not refusing to see anything, by the way.

Those and the previous ones ("mega projects") that went the way of the NPL's during the Thaitanic 1997 and added into the abandoned condo projects would make for a great sci-fi movie background / backdrop. Any film makers out there???

[A_Traveller]

Though this may be apocryphal, I remember reading years ago about an American production which filmed in Bangkok using it as the backdrop of another planet, on the basis that the scenery {including the Thai script} would be suitably opaque to the accidence.

Regards

[bdenner]

Well it took just on a month since the threat started. Diesel just went over 38 Baht here in the North of Isaan this morning. 91 ULP is at 41 Baht

Edited May 22, 2008 by bdenner

[Plus]

...that's the way the market is...people can choose to live where and how they want, depending on whether they can afford it or not.

How can you talk about "market" and "afford" while proposing raising taxes to artificially limit car ownership?

..Keeping folks from using cars is not the same as keeping them in third world squalor.

Hanging for your life at the back of fully packed sontaew IS a third world squalor. Sweating out for hours in 40 degree heat IS a third world squalor.

This conditions will only worsen if you force millions of people to abandon their cars and join the bus commuter crowd.

>>>>

Actually discussing your proposal of raising taxes is a total waste of time. Thailand has a national economic and social development plan and BMA master plan that covers Bangkok traffic among other things. It mandates building mass transit system, replacing the old diesel bus fleet with natural gas buses, building more roads, moving commercial traffic from roads to railways and so on.

What it does not include is raising taxes on cars, in fact it envisions directly opposite - selling masive quantities of small, clean, fuel efficient cars with taxes as low as 15% - the "eco-car" project. Thailand has been working on it for five years to secure investments from major car makers. You claim to know market well enough to understand what would happen if it all suddenly goes down the drain due to your tax proposals.

It's a non-starter.

Yesterday I read that BMA wants to consider "congestion charge" for cars entering Silom, Sathorn and Sukhumwit areas. They are collecting opinions at the moment.

Discussing how that might work is a far more productive exercise. Any ideas?

[Heng]

How can you talk about "market" and "afford" while proposing raising taxes to artificially limit car ownership?

There's nothing artificial about it. Taxes, fees, and their relation to end price are an inherent part of the market. Just because they are raised from a certain point doesn't make them artificial. By your argument, any tax, even the current levels are an artificial barrier.

Hanging for your life at the back of fully packed sontaew IS a third world squalor. Sweating out for hours in 40 degree heat IS a third world squalor.

This conditions will only worsen if you force millions of people to abandon their cars and join the bus commuter crowd.

Again, squalor perhaps for you, but for plenty of folks, it's just a normal commute. It's all relative. I'm sure plenty of folks would look at your lifestyle or mine and consider it third world or at least substandard. If anything, you're just looking down on folks who do have to or choose to live that way.

Actually discussing your proposal of raising taxes is a total waste of time. Thailand has a national economic and social development plan and BMA master plan that covers Bangkok traffic among other things. It mandates building mass transit system, replacing the old diesel bus fleet with natural gas buses, building more roads, moving commercial traffic from roads to railways and so on.

What it does not include is raising taxes on cars, in fact it envisions directly opposite - selling masive quantities of small, clean, fuel efficient cars with taxes as low as 15% - the "eco-car" project. Thailand has been working on it for five years to secure investments from major car makers. You claim to know market well enough to understand what would happen if it all suddenly goes down the drain due to your tax proposals.

Certainly a waste of time if you're not going to bring any points to the table.

I think the above master plan is a non-starter without a vast reduction in the total amount of cars on the road.

Yesterday I read that BMA wants to consider "congestion charge" for cars entering Silom, Sathorn and Sukhumwit areas. They are collecting opinions at the moment.

Discussing how that might work is a far more productive exercise. Any ideas?

Yesterday I spent the day lounging, so perhaps you can sum it for me or give me a link and I'll check it out. If it's what I imagine it to be (a toll and perhaps paid registration of cars that would have permission to enter the congestion zones), I'd be all for it, although I think the charges would have to start out pretty steep to have any real effect and to guage the plan's effectiveness, or else it risks being swept away as 'ineffective' by local interests.

By the way, I believe you mentioned May 22 would be a return to bad traffic. Hardly the case. It still seems significantly thinner, at least on today's Sukapibal 3 to SCB Ladprao 111, the Ratchadaphisek Courts, quick 30 min. lunch on Ratchayothin, then from there across the Rama VII Bridge to Yanhee Hospital, and back home. All within 4 hours, less 2 hours spent at the hospital. In the old days, even post "crash" '97 and most certainly before, I'd still be in traffic right now, and perhaps wouldn't be home until 5-6pm.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Heng

[jumnien]

99% of Thai roads have no traffic on them. If you want traffic, you're going to have to go our of your way to find it.

[cclub75]

I think... we were right.

Oil price surge forces 4,000 Northeast trucks to halt services

BANGKOK, May 22 (TNA) – Surging oil prices, particularly diesel fuel, have begun to take a heavy toll on transport operators in Northeast Thailand, with almost 4,000 trucks already idled, as their operators won't take to the road under these circumstances, stopping freight transport services.

Pramote Kongthong, president of the Northeastern Transport Operators Association, revealed that 449 members owning more than 10,000 trucks, had taken almost half of their trucks out of service Thursday because their businesses could not keep pace with the rising cost of fuel.

Some operators have already closed their doors and shifted their commercial attentions to other kinds of businesses. They had already sold their trucks to other major operators with larger amounts of capital.

Should the diesel price continue to surge to 40 baht per litre, he believed, the transport operators would have more than 1,000 trucks out of service, making a big bottleneck for the transport in the region. (TNA)

http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=4387

[Heng]

[tuftymorgan]

1/ The more you have the more you want

2/ The people in power in the Thai government have a lot of money, big cars and big power

3/ These people don't care about a) Their populace

The price of oil per barrel

c) Doing the right thing

4/ It seems the basic laws of Buddism are being ignored by these people

5/ Money over morals is unpleasant

It has come a time for the Thai people to rally for their own cause, to be educated and to change the corruption of Samak/Thaksin and their "Generals" or Thailand will face what is happening in Burma in years to come.

Perhaps the aforementioned Government would like to reread The Five Precepts

1. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking life.

2. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking what is not given.

3. I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct.

4. I undertake the training rule to abstain from false speech.

5. I undertake the training rule to abstain from drinks and drugs that cause heedlessness.[

[cclub75]

Nice to see your... zen attitude and your contribution to the discussion.

Let's hope it's just zen, and not plain blindness.

Easier to play guitar than to see that oil is a real problem. It's not just some figures on a computer screen.

[tuftymorgan]

Perhaps we are all blind, but its hard to see the wood from the trees, when you're stuck in the Bush

[Heng]

Nice to see your... zen attitude and your contribution to the discussion.

Let's hope it's just zen, and not plain blindness.

Easier to play guitar than to see that oil is a real problem. It's not just some figures on a computer screen.

Not sure what you're talking about, Club.

My guitar was a response to Sunrise, by the way.

I think it'll be a long time before oil is a real problem for me, and perhaps not even in my lifetime. For the masses though, I totally agree.

[jumnien]

Nice to see your... zen attitude and your contribution to the discussion.

Let's hope it's just zen, and not plain blindness.

Easier to play guitar than to see that oil is a real problem. It's not just some figures on a computer screen.

Not sure what you're talking about, Club.

My guitar was a response to Sunrise, by the way.

I think it'll be a long time before oil is a real problem for me, and perhaps not even in my lifetime. For the masses though, I totally agree.

To be serenaded by such a talent is indeed fortuitous! Play, maestro, play on!

[Heng]

Any effects among the rec flyer crowd, Sunrise? Or still going up as usual?

Edited May 22, 2008 by Heng

[jumnien]

It doesn't get much better than this! Oh my buddha, did unleaded premium just hit 39 baht/liter?

[Plus]

95 is reportedly 40 baht at upcountry stations.

Morning traffic on Sukhabhipan 1 is backed up way past Tesco, used to flow wihout any interruptions during school holidays. Two lanes on Kaset-Navamin are blocked by parents dropping kids at Lert La. Rom Klao was back to the bad old days today.

Car sales surged 14% in the first quarter, mostly on the strength of e20 capable tax reductions. Dual fuel Optra sold 139% more than last year, same with dual fuel Colorado.

Heng, who told you that selectively applied taxes to manipulate prices and demand are part of the market?

The "congestion charge" article was in the paper edition of Daily Xpress, but I don't think I missed any details. They are in the collectin opinions stage that should last about a month.

I have no idea what good will it do - are they going to weed out CBD yappies? Who else drives there? Assumption parents? Tax will not stop them, and yappies will probably demand their companies to pay instead. I also can't imagine how they are going to set up toll booths on a dozen small sois that lead to Sathorn, like Suan Plu, or even Witthayu or RamaIV. On expressways there have a dozen gates for three lanes of traffic and it still backs up for a kilometer.

Blocking Sukhumwit to collect fees will probably create even bigger jams, just in different places, and there's also a question of shortcuts via numerous tiny sois.

Also there's a problem with people coming from expressways as far as Muang Thon or Bang Na - they need a place to park if they are not allowed to enter inner city.

Maybe someone will come up with a clever solution, but it looks like a very difficult task.

>>>

Implementing "master plan" WILL decrease traffic jams without raising car taxes. The problem is not the number of cars but below average road network and non-existent mass transit systems.

Cclub, it's true BTS and MRT are losing money, but you should note that the majority of their expenses are on servicing their huge debts. Operationally they are close to break even point, I believe.

[A_Traveller]

Given you two's tennis game here, please find link to on-line version re congestion charge.

LINK

Regards

[JetsetBkk]

I filled up the pick-up a couple of weeks ago and managed to squeeze in 1,900 baht's worth of diesel. That was a new record for me.

Then yesterday I filled up again and set a new personal record of 2,000 baht.

[Heng]

Morning traffic on Sukhabhipan 1 is backed up way past Tesco, used to flow wihout any interruptions during school holidays. Two lanes on Kaset-Navamin are blocked by parents dropping kids at Lert La. Rom Klao was back to the bad old days today.

Had trucks traversing Romklao as usual all day today since 5am, and no one reported anything unusual... (no complaints), and more to the point no one came back later than usual, despite that little log jam that Surasas Wittaed school causes when its in session. It's a 50-70 minute roundtrip run from Sukapibal 3/Ram 170-ish including half an hour minimum at the Suvarnabhumi cargo terminal.

Car sales surged 14% in the first quarter, mostly on the strength of e20 capable tax reductions. Dual fuel Optra sold 139% more than last year, same with dual fuel Colorado.

As mentioned the economy is still fairly strong, but I still think the vast majority -while surely benefitting from some trickle down- are walking/driving on a budget tightrope in their usual fashion and are indeed being hit by higher fuel prices... not unlike the truckers that Cclub mentioned in his post above. And no, their income is not keeping up with fuel costs.

Heng, who told you that selectively applied taxes to manipulate prices and demand are part of the market?

If it's something that the consumer pays, is willing to pay, or is not willing to pay, it's part of the market price.... it doesn't matter how you divy it up: into taxes, overhead, raw materials cost, bribes, whatever... if that's what adds up to be the sticker price or price on a shelf somewhere, it's the market price. Who told you that it wasn't, Plus? Feel free to go off on a semantics tangent if you can't think of anything better to say.

The "congestion charge" article was in the paper edition of Daily Xpress, but I don't think I missed any details. They are in the collectin opinions stage that should last about a month.

I have no idea what good will it do - are they going to weed out CBD yappies? Who else drives there? Assumption parents? Tax will not stop them, and yappies will probably demand their companies to pay instead. I also can't imagine how they are going to set up toll booths on a dozen small sois that lead to Sathorn, like Suan Plu, or even Witthayu or RamaIV. On expressways there have a dozen gates for three lanes of traffic and it still backs up for a kilometer.

Blocking Sukhumwit to collect fees will probably create even bigger jams, just in different places, and there's also a question of shortcuts via numerous tiny sois.

Also there's a problem with people coming from expressways as far as Muang Thon or Bang Na - they need a place to park if they are not allowed to enter inner city.

Maybe someone will come up with a clever solution, but it looks like a very difficult task.

Thanks, yeah, just saw the link provided by A_T (thanks!). I'm sure some way can be found. I don't think small sois are a problem anyhow. Plenty of folks all over Bangkok own their streets and have toll gates set up. People who are willing to pay do so, and those who aren't just avoid the area. All you have to do is close off the zone... as you say, 'people won't walk' so I don't think there is any danger of somekind of permanent holding pattern of people driving in circles out near Rama III so that they can find a parking place to go to J City. And let's not forget that they aren't trying to stop people from driving there, they just want to reduce the number surely.

The expressways do work for drivers though. I don't think I've seen a 1 kilometer back up that wasn't construction related (for example at the Tap Chang gate for awhile there) for some time. It would take some major toll increases bordering on the 'insulting' before I would choose driving underneath when there was an option to do otherwise. There's no reason why driving in metro areas shouldn't be toll controlled full stop. As for parking, I've long wanted to get into the high rise parking garage biz.... but am nowhere near the cash capital required, that could be a possible solution.

Implementing "master plan" WILL decrease traffic jams without raising car taxes. The problem is not the number of cars but below average road network and non-existent mass transit systems.

It might have a chance if we can reduce the number of cars on the road, improve the road network and improve the sub-par mass transit systems.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Heng

[scotbeve]

95 is reportedly 40 baht at upcountry stations.

Morning traffic on Sukhabhipan 1 is backed up way past Tesco, used to flow wihout any interruptions during school holidays. Two lanes on Kaset-Navamin are blocked by parents dropping kids at Lert La. Rom Klao was back to the bad old days today.

Car sales surged 14% in the first quarter, mostly on the strength of e20 capable tax reductions. Dual fuel Optra sold 139% more than last year, same with dual fuel Colorado.

Heng, who told you that selectively applied taxes to manipulate prices and demand are part of the market?

The "congestion charge" article was in the paper edition of Daily Xpress, but I don't think I missed any details. They are in the collectin opinions stage that should last about a month.

I have no idea what good will it do - are they going to weed out CBD yappies? Who else drives there? Assumption parents? Tax will not stop them, and yappies will probably demand their companies to pay instead. I also can't imagine how they are going to set up toll booths on a dozen small sois that lead to Sathorn, like Suan Plu, or even Witthayu or RamaIV. On expressways there have a dozen gates for three lanes of traffic and it still backs up for a kilometer.

Blocking Sukhumwit to collect fees will probably create even bigger jams, just in different places, and there's also a question of shortcuts via numerous tiny sois.

Also there's a problem with people coming from expressways as far as Muang Thon or Bang Na - they need a place to park if they are not allowed to enter inner city.

Maybe someone will come up with a clever solution, but it looks like a very difficult task.

>>>

Implementing "master plan" WILL decrease traffic jams without raising car taxes. The problem is not the number of cars but below average road network and non-existent mass transit systems.

Cclub, it's true BTS and MRT are losing money, but you should note that the majority of their expenses are on servicing their huge debts. Operationally they are close to break even point, I believe.

Plus,

It MAY have been about 10 years ago where a UK based company was trying to sell the govt on the idea of having passive transmitters installed on all new vehicles to assess that particular vehicle road usage. As in several other countries, vehicle / road tax is assessed by this method. I guess it wasn't lucrative enough for the fat cats in the govt house for it's not used / implemented....

[sriracha john]

+

The most positive first post I've seen in a long time. Welcome to Thaivisa.

[Xaryt]

+

[sriracha john]

+

+

omg

my sentiments exactly, X