Question For Farang Business Owners

[shakeydave]

After just reading a thread 5 pages long I have this question for all farangs who own a business on Samui.

Why do you own a business on Samui if life is so tough and no money can be made

I have read several threads regarding people coming on to the Thai Visa forum asking questions that should help them decide whether a business makes sense and all the OP gets is doom and gloom replies.I have no doubt that if tourism was so bad on Samui the place would be like a ghost town 365 days of the year but as it is the facts are the reverse with tourism going up in Asia and more so in Thailand and the Islands.

It seems to me that those that live and work on Samui and other areas of Thailand only want to keep the slice of pie that they have and will do everything to put off anyone with an idea of starting up a business that may impact on there bottom line.Nobody would come to Thailand and invest if it was as bad as some describe,so Iwould ask those that answer an honest question to be nice to those that ask instead of being over sensitive to your own greed. Remember you were all asking the same questions when you started to look for a business and some of you will have posted questions on this site for good honest advice.

A good business will work anywhere and a bad business will fail everywhere.

Hope the weather gets better soon.

Shakeydave

[simey]

Heres the misconception - that people move here and start a business to make money. It's the other way around, people move here for the life style, the weather, the food, all the reasons that tourists come here. Often for people living here they need some income to survive, and if that does not come from abroad then they need to find a business that pays for the food, beer and rent. You give up on the idea of making good money in exchange for the lifestyle - if you want to make money then this is not the place. People replying are not all doom and gloom, however people need to understand that the money you make here means struggling to save anything, and sacrificing some things like expensive holidays. Personally the business I invested in lost 200k baht over three years (not including expenses) but then my money comes from Europe so I am not living on scraps. The people you see here with money, probably made it elsewhere and just use it here to run a business almost at cost.

[Pilchard]

There is a big difference between investing in or starting a buisiness here with proper funding ,and being a week off the plane back home still remembering how it was to be a 2 week millionaire on a sunny island where girls called you handsome as you walked down the street.

If this place has got under your skin you'll come anyway.

If it's just the post holiday depression you'll know in month or so

Glad you liked it here, so do I

[shakeydave]

Heres the misconception - that people move here and start a business to make money. It's the other way around, people move here for the life style, the weather, the food, all the reasons that tourists come here. Often for people living here they need some income to survive, and if that does not come from abroad then they need to find a business that pays for the food, beer and rent. You give up on the idea of making good money in exchange for the lifestyle - if you want to make money then this is not the place. People replying are not all doom and gloom, however people need to understand that the money you make here means struggling to save anything, and sacrificing some things like expensive holidays. Personally the business I invested in lost 200k baht over three years (not including expenses) but then my money comes from Europe so I am not living on scraps. The people you see here with money, probably made it elsewhere and just use it here to run a business almost at cost.

Simey, I agree with what you say in that most people have a business to tide them over whilst having a second income ie a pension from abroad, but part of me does get frustrated by the lack of detail in some replies to questions that are posted by people seeking guenuine information. I agree that if you go anywhere and open a bar or resaturant then the chances of making any sort of income is very limited because you are competing against many others with the same bright idea. The main detail is how much you can invest and how much you can lose. The last time I was in Samui in early Aril ( Lamai ) I was offered the chance to buy a small resort for 1.9 million bht and at the time you think wow what a bargain, the truth was though that because of the location and size of this resort it would have been very hard to make ends meet and the resort would have had to have been 90% occupied throughout the year for any chance to make money and this is where reality hit home as the chance of that happening where nill.

The point I was making is if anyone asks a question then surely they deserve a response that befits the question rather than the doom and gloom they often get.Again the advice given by a few is superb but sadly the response by many is very poor and often decends into a totally different topic and online personality clashes.

Regards

Shakeydave

[Pilchard]

All of joey's questions were answered in the first page of posts.

[highdiver]

dave.

good post.. there is so much confusion and doom and gloom on TV that it send off the wrong impression.

The answer to your question can be divided into 3 types of foreigner's business set up times.

1.the oldies or the whales . came here a long time ago 10-15 years and they tend to make sure at every opportunity to remind you of that

fact... they really like to tell everyone how good it used to be before the airport was opened.

As another poster said they came here for the life style and were lucky to be in the right place at the right time and made a lot of money.

these are ones that made a real profit from the growth of Samui. they bought land cheap and sold it very expensive, or they opened up a good business and sold it before they had any competition.

these are the ones that had the brains to sell off very expensive to the small fish the followed.

they have the respect of the locals as well as the foreigners that followed as being the "first".

2. the "Mid range small fish" .. came here 3-6 ago and were very impressed with the potential the oldies showed them and were lured to invest in Samui hoping that they can copy the success of the oldies..

these are the ones that came in herds...set up the same businesses all over the island thinking they can make a "great business" ...

7 years ago there were about 3 or 4 realty agents on the island and they made a lot of money so everyone thought they can do the same and everyone thought they had a unique concept and everyone thought they had the leading edge only to find out that everyone is doing "same same". there are now over 200 agencies and developers most are not even permitted by law to be developers and most of them will never see a return on this investment.

other investors thought they would bring Samui the "know how" or the the latest in trends only to find our that there were another 10,000 who thought the same.

most of them opened a business under the assumption that if others did so well so can I... what is commonly known as the "me too strategy". no market research, no market fisability, no proper business plan, no knowledge of the sector...bars opened by people who never worked a single day in a bar or samll resorts opened by those who have no training or knowledge of the hospitality industry.

the worst is in so many cases.. not enough funds to support themselves.

Samui has become a very competitive market and most of those investors above are getting the crunch from the 3rd type.

3. the "Big boys sharks" who came to the island when it was in full bloom 2 years ago and revised the concept that to compete with the existing businesses they need to bring in more power ....as in money and know how... they are the ones who are also making money because they have enough money to invest, they have proper legal council, tax plans and qualified accountants, they are big in every sense of the word and they are eating the small fish away.

4. the "fall in love investor" those are the ones who came here and fell in love with the local "bar girl" and since she is so wonderful and smart and she is local and knows the "local business" they invested the money in opening a bar, beauty salon, restaurant, or any other type of business that the " bar girl " presented as a huge potential. ..

in Thai visa many of the doom and gloom are the mid range small fish investor who came here with a little cash and thought he could make a nice business that will support him staying here. unfortunately so did another 10,000. others are the ones that had a great idea to copy another business only to find out they dont know what they are doing and they never ran a business like this before.

and since the business is not going so well they have nothing better to do then sit an complain all day.

If you are thinking of doing business in samui make sure you understand what you are doing and make a proper business plan with a proper market research. if you don't find that you have an edge then just don't do it.

[Sir Burr]

Unprofitable businesses don't shut down, they get sold onwards.

[koheesti]

What about the business owner who returns home to work in the low season so he can afford to work here the rest of the year and watch his Samui business lose money? Sounds bad but the lifestyle makes up for the lack of big money in the bank

[ClaudeFeller]

The guys with a good running business dont have time to reply these threads on TV because they work 70 hrs a week...

[5tash]

The guys with a good running business dont have time to reply these threads on TV because they work 70 hrs a week...

The guys with a good running business wouldn't be working 70 hrs a week !

[highdiver]

The guys with a good running business dont have time to reply these threads on TV because they work 70 hrs a week...

The guys with a good running business wouldn't be working 70 hrs a week !

:D

so so true!!!!

[Samui Coconut]

The guys with a good running business dont have time to reply these threads on TV because they work 70 hrs a week...

The guys with a good running business wouldn't be working 70 hrs a week !

:D

so so true!!!!

Wrong, they are working 80 hours up....that's the reason they are good running

[BigC]

if u want to own a business then you should do it for fun not for the money. not invest too mucj. then u will pay or get paid to do what u like to do. some poeple invest loads of money into things they know nothing about and try to pick it up as they go along. which in business u do not have time or money to learn from your mistakes.

which leaves alot of amter workers on the island.

buying land is good investment. building houses can be good if u know the business inside out or u can lose alot but buying land leaves u with alot of possiblilites. u can build youe own house. or start your own business.

i would not bother coming to thailand and expect to leave a millionair i hope someone can proof me wrong

[joeyb]

The guys with a good running business dont have time to reply these threads on TV because they work 70 hrs a week...

The guys with a good running business wouldn't be working 70 hrs a week !

so so true!!!!

Wrong, they are working 80 hours up....that's the reason they are good running

To work that many hours, you better be working on a cure for cancer!! Why move to a tropical island to work 12 hr days?? No thanks.

[Mark Wolfe]

Unprofitable businesses don't shut down, they get sold onwards.

Not so, in every case.

Take the case of DD Bar, which was behind the row of A-frame souvenir shops (now a Family Mart) by the end of the noodle stands at the lady Thai boxing ring in central Lamai. It's now a clothing shop, but when it was DD Bar it was run by an affable English fellow. To make a long story short, he survived on that place, had a local woman and a kid with her, lived in a decent house. After about three years, things declined and the fact is (and here is a very salient thing to remember all you kids out there wanting to start a business) that most of the custom was from the "clique" of regulars. The owner and his woman and child had to move to a one room "hooker hovel" near Finn Guest House. Eventually, he put the place up for sale and no one was interested. He lowered the price several times. In the end, he didn't just shut down the bar, he was forced to give the place back to the landlord. Just had to eat the key money.

A shame, really, as the location was tucked away in such a way that someone should have been able to make something out of it (as a pub or restaurant).

The fate of the Kiwi Pub appears to have been similar. A bar for sale and with reduced price ends up being a cheap knock-off paintings and such shop run by a Thai. Seems that reverted back to the owner.

It's hard to know what would do well here; there is a new soap and lotion shop that has just opened in Lamai (just like in a mall!) and that's a new one for the village. If that was your idea, Joey, you've been scooped.

I agree with Mr. S that people who wish to have a bar just so that they can have one and have their mates hang out there, and be the boss of prostitutes can find what they want in Samui. You can often make it hand-to-mouth, but not always.

If I wanted to join the merchant class, I'd seriously think of opening a Subway sandwich chain outlet in Lamai. I think there is some sort of drug in the bread that makes you keep wanting to come and eat there. At least that's how I find it in Bangkok.

As was posted elsewhere, the majority of the customers here are tourists, most of whom will either not be back or might in a year or more. So the question is: What do they need to buy or can be enticed to purchase? More importantly, what can be offered that isn't already for sale here in multitude?

What do people in Samui do?...

1. Eat (Already many varieties of places for this.)

2. Beach activities (Many places for beach toys, lotions, hats, clothing, etc.)

3. Get injured (Many hospitals/clinics and pharmacies.)

4. Purchase something topical (Red Bull T-shirts, for instance) or illegal and cheap (copy bags/clothes/CDs/DVDs, sunglasses and so on are already on offer.)

5. Misc entertainment (Another bowling alley? Open another ATV course? New elephant riding? Deep sea fishing? Nothing new under that sun.)

6. Sex tourism/bar (I can think of a couple of things that haven't been tried here that MIGHT work well along those lines, but I hope you have a friend in the local mafia.)

People don't go on vacation to buy things that they can get at home (unless they are a real bargain). And frankly, whatever you have in mind has most likely been tried by someone before. We even used to have Elvis perform in Lamai....

[gobs]

Very, very good and interesting thread!

It seems at least that everybody can now understand why it's not so easy to start up a business in LOS.

I personnaly live in Chiang Mai (retired status, no business!). OK, it's not so busy than Samui I suppose, but yet all here can be fund. And what more is needed?..

Tourists are happy with this, and settled farangs and locals too...

Thanks to all.

I think that thread could be pinned! So, so many questions about starting a business in LOS. And I suppose so, so many disapointed guys!..

Cheers

[ClaudeFeller]

The guys with a good running business dont have time to reply these threads on TV because they work 70 hrs a week...

The guys with a good running business wouldn't be working 70 hrs a week !

so so true!!!!

Wrong, they are working 80 hours up....that's the reason they are good running

To work that many hours, you better be working on a cure for cancer!! Why move to a tropical island to work 12 hr days?? No thanks.

If you think about tourist business your opening hours will be at least 70 hours a week. To survive you need three things:

- Enough power to work the first year without any holidays

- Reliable staff

- A comprehensible "partner" on your side and not a bargirl who will costs you more money, time and nerfs you can afford.

I suppose you dont speak Thai... you will be surprised how difficult it is to deal with any official, with public service, with your landlord, with your staff, with your accounting or with any supplier. You definetly need somebody reliable who can speak Thai for you.

Go ahead and make your "business plan". When finished you double your costs and you assume half of the income. Then it is realistic.

But dont be afraid: It is possible to earn a living here!

[naka]

But is a business where you are working seventy hours a week really what you want ?

Seems to me any aspirations for a 'lifestyle' have gone out the window, unless

of course you are a workaholic.

Naka.

[Pilchard]

I'd seriously think of opening a Subway sandwich chain outlet in Lamai. I think there is some sort of drug in the bread that makes you keep wanting to come and eat there. At least that's how I find it in Bangkok.

Someone beat you to it , there's a Subway in Chaweng already, don't know how well he's doing, being opposite Macdonald's can be a double edged sword

Go ahead and make your "business plan". When finished you double your costs and you assume half of the income. Then it is realistic.

But dont be afraid: It is possible to earn a living here!

Probably the most succinct and realistic overview of doing business in Samui, Spot on

[joeyb]

People don't go on vacation to buy things that they can get at home (unless they are a real bargain). And frankly, whatever you have in mind has most likely been tried by someone before.

Well, I guess that's it then. No point in trying anymore as Mark says it's all been done before. Anything that counld be done, has been done. Samui is all tapped out.

Quite a shame really as I think I had a unique idea to bring to Samui. I met a thia man in Chang Mai who did the most amazing soap carvings. The quality was in a league of it's own. A thai bargirl I met in Lamai was going to help me get it started and then hopefully we were going to open more shops as the popularity began to spread. But, Mark has finally convinced me that every worthwhile idea has already been tried on Samui.

Are you guys serious about Subways?? The Thai version is related in name only to the US shops. Probably due to the local ingredients, but they taste nothing like the originals. Besides, Subways are dying a slow death here in the States. Too many competitors beating them at their own game.

Too bad about that soap carving shop though, could'a made some serious money on that one!

Back to the old drawing board...

[Mark Wolfe]

Well, if Joey is opening a sarcasm booth in Lamai, he just might have something there.

Just for your edification, you might introduce yourself to the word hyperbole.

Here, I'll even give you the definition:

A figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, and is not meant to be taken literally.

OK, let's be literal. Samui has been a resort destination for years and as such, many people have thought, "Gee, I too would like to start a business there, but would like to try something different from the souvenir shops and bars. What special thing might I get into here?"

Of course there are many things that one could try here. There's no batting cage, for example, but they maybe there is a good reason. Or maybe a person could try a tanning salon...oh right, there is one here already (I kid you not). Or maybe a Lamborghini dealership?

Myself, I always thought a combination bank/bar would go over well. Run out of money while drinking? Walk across the bar and fill out a loan application....

As for Subways...

Someone beat you to it , there's a Subway in Chaweng already, ...

... did you even read what I wrote? This is getting old. I said:

I'd seriously think of opening a Subway sandwich chain outlet in Lamai.

While the Subway shops don't have the extensive menus that they have in the States, what they taste like compared to the US is irrelevant. So is the comment that they are "dying a slow death here in the States. Too many competitors beating them at their own game." So what? Who cares? The business here has NO competition and as you might have gleaned, there are not so many Americans in Lamai to snootily say, "My this isn't nearly as good as the ones in Cleveland, even if the chain is dying a slow death."

On a side note, and one that could be applied elsewhere, in Taiwan a person wanted to start a sandwich shop like Subway. He investigated how to be a franchise owner and didn't like the terms so he started his own place called, "Subber," which resulted in legal rumblings from the slowly dying chain in the States, but in the end, Subber it was. And the fact was that the set-up was exactly like Subway and the food was basically the same.

So as previously posted by someone, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

[joeyb]

While the Subway shops don't have the extensive menus that they have in the States, what they taste like compared to the US is irrelevant.

They taste like crap. Which, when it comes to running a sandwich shop, is kinda relevant. But only if you are looking for repeat customers.

[shakeydave]

As I stated in my question , Most thread turn into personel battles between posters with ego's. Please stay on topic as this was very interesting and to be honest one of the best anwered questions on here I have seen for ages.

Many Thanks

Shakeydave

[Mark Wolfe]

After just reading a thread 5 pages long I have this question for all farangs who own a business on Samui.

Why do you own a business on Samui if life is so tough and no money can be made huh.gif

That was your original question, Shakey, and so you see that most, if not all, replies here are off-topic.

Since I don't own a business on Samui, and neither does Joeyb or most of the others, we will respect your fidelity and not post here any longer.

[Prasert]

When you have a job as an employee (like most instructors and DM's) you have a monthly salary without too much worries. You won't get involved in the real hassles of running a business, but you will hear a lot around you about troubles. Always easy to vent those things on a forum, especially if you blow it up.

Starting a business on Samui is possible.

And if you put your mind to it, it will be successful.

But TV is absolutely not the place to ask for advice, which has been clearly demonstrated in joeyb's topic.

For the OP's question: no I don't run a business on Samui. I'm running one on Koh Tao. But you direct your question at the right group of people.

Had the same problems here as my friends who started a business on Samui. And everyone overcame those problems, by getting advice from other business owners who know what they're dealing with.

[breezein]

After just reading a thread 5 pages long I have this question for all farangs who own a business on Samui.

Why do you own a business on Samui if life is so tough and no money can be made

I have read several threads regarding people coming on to the Thai Visa forum asking questions that should help them decide whether a business makes sense and all the OP gets is doom and gloom replies.I have no doubt that if tourism was so bad on Samui the place would be like a ghost town 365 days of the year but as it is the facts are the reverse with tourism going up in Asia and more so in Thailand and the Islands.

It seems to me that those that live and work on Samui and other areas of Thailand only want to keep the slice of pie that they have and will do everything to put off anyone with an idea of starting up a business that may impact on there bottom line.Nobody would come to Thailand and invest if it was as bad as some describe,so Iwould ask those that answer an honest question to be nice to those that ask instead of being over sensitive to your own greed. Remember you were all asking the same questions when you started to look for a business and some of you will have posted questions on this site for good honest advice.

A good business will work anywhere and a bad business will fail everywhere.

Hope the weather gets better soon.

Shakeydave

A good business will work anywhere and a bad business will fail everywhere.

So using your above brilliant inntellect, does that mean my sucessful tanning salon business in Manchester will be equally sucessful in Samui?

NB My scuba diving business in manchester is going under fast.

[farang62]

I have been running a successful business in Thailand for almost 20 years. I make money, pay my taxes ans have savings, hard work yes, worth it yes.

Like any business you need to fill a need in the market.

You must have a good reputation and be reliable and honest.

You must find and train Thai staff, and train them how you want things done.

You must take good care of your Thai staff and always pay them on time.

Yes, I make money and I also live with in my means.

Yes it takes 70 hours a week or more to be successful and stay that way.

No (Farang) business here in Thailand or Asia for that matter can run and be successfully with out constant supervision.

It takes commitment, preservience, dedication, and a lot of hard work.

Over the years it has been well worth the effort.

And continues to be.

[BigC]

The guys with a good running business dont have time to reply these threads on TV because they work 70 hrs a week...

The guys with a good running business wouldn't be working 70 hrs a week !

so so true!!!!

Wrong, they are working 80 hours up....that's the reason they are good running

To work that many hours, you better be working on a cure for cancer!! Why move to a tropical island to work 12 hr days?? No thanks.

yeah what is the point in coming here to work. u work all day and night and u miss the real reason why people come here that is to enjoy being a toursit. better off going back home working then haviong long holidays. working out here in the heat forget that

[angiud]

I have been running a successful business in Thailand for almost 20 years. I make money, pay my taxes ans have savings, hard work yes, worth it yes.

Like any business you need to fill a need in the market.

You must have a good reputation and be reliable and honest.

You must find and train Thai staff, and train them how you want things done.

You must take good care of your Thai staff and always pay them on time.

Yes, I make money and I also live with in my means.

Yes it takes 70 hours a week or more to be successful and stay that way.

No (Farang) business here in Thailand or Asia for that matter can run and be successfully with out constant supervision.

It takes commitment, preservience, dedication, and a lot of hard work.

Over the years it has been well worth the effort.

And continues to be.

I completely agree with farang62.

Edited April 28, 2008 by angiud

[sbk]

Interesting how many people think that to own a successful business does not require long hours put in by the owner. My sister (in the US) started a publishing business from nothing and, after 6 years, has a growing magazine but she still has to put in long hours. It is the nature of being an entrepreneur. You want an easy job and an easy life then go work for someone else who has put in the long hours and hard work to make their business grow.