Up Date On 2005 Heroin Bust Phuket

[newtronbom]

Your story is a classic case of why I have never invested 1 baht in Thailand even though I have been going to Phuket for the last 24 years.

The cops are no better than khaki clad gangsters and you will never see your gear again.

This is a sobering story for people who have little experience in Thailand or are thinking of parking their hard earned dosh there.

In some respects you are fortunate to have had the money to fight as others including Thais just get sent to jail for 30 years as they have no hope of paying for a decent lawyer and no legal assistance is available for the poor.

Let me ask, how many times were you approached for a sling for the prosecutor or judge? If you fall for that which you obviously didn't, they will milk you like the proverbial cash cow with all sorts of promises of freedom etc.

I was involved in a court case in Phuket that ran for 10 years. We had a good lawyer who was very cheap. We won after our opponent appealed 3 times.

Put out a book, go on the chat circuit and recoup your losses, who knows a movie could come if the book is juicy enough.

I'm arriving in Phuket next week, I'll help you write it LOL..........

I was approached many times with offers, ranging from complete guarrantied freedom by paying the judge(and a couple of mill for the lawyer who offered it!!) to bail in the early days before the case was heard for only......5 mill (as if they would give bail to a farang on a 40 KG heoin bust!!), to paying the prosecuter not to appeal - considered that one but at 600,000 each it was a bit much to risk. Saw it done many times though. Also saw many people completly ripped off too. This is a fact of life here. Not so easy to do now days, but it still happens. Unless you are guilty, I don't reccomend it. Possible to ruin any chance you could have of winning if you are found out. There was really no evidence against us, so we decided to go with the straight fight. Rightly as it turned out. Still a big gamble though, in the Thai court system, as everthing is stacked against you. You must prove your innocence here, not the other way round. The police throw the charges at you and you must prove them wrong. Seems I should be writing a book as many of you suggest. Could do with some help there for sure. I have no idea how to go about it. If you are serious, send me an email and we could talk it over. Like to hear your ideas. Be nice if I could make a few baht. We can certainly do with it!!! Mitch.

[geriatrickid]

A disturbinng story, but as I do not have all the facts or knowledge of the case I will not comment further, except to ask if you have any recourse against the police officials that you believe looted your property and for the false imprisonment? Is there compensation available?

As for those that are going off on a tangent about the corrupt judges, I note that the OP did explicitly state that the judge was not happy with the policeman that perjured himself and that is believed to have planted the false evidence. If anything. it indicates that not everyone is corrupt.

I do hope that this story is picked up by the wire services as it is something that needs to be shared.

[bangkokrick]

Despite all this, I love Thailand. It is my home.

you seem to be a brave man Ian. i will submit your case to the Klingon High Council with the recommendation to award you with honorary Klingon citizenship.

congratulations on the outcome and joke aside. if something like this would have happened to me and my wife we'd take the next available flight out of Thailand.

If i was Ian i would be doing the same as soon as possible. Look at the case of Kevin Quill he was acquitted by the courts and then the supreme court overturned this ruling.

See below.

Kevin Quill, 45, former owner of the Fighting Cock pub, was arrested and convicted in 2001 on drug charges, which he has strenuously denied.

He served six months in a Thai jail before being granted bail. In 2005 the country's Court of Appeal acquitted Mr Quill of the charges saying there was no evidence against him.

However this week the case went to the Supreme Court who rejected the acquittal and sentenced him to six years' imprisonment.

Scource: Telegraph and Argus (British local paper)

How can anyone have any confidence in the Thai judicial system when you see this kind of thing happening. He had every chance not to return from the UK to Thailand when he was acquitted, but believed in the Thai system and he was sadly let down badly.

Cheers, Rick

Hi Rick. Thanks for the advice. It's a shitty situation we have cause on one hand this is, for better or worse our home now. Burnt all my bridges so to speak at home. I too am worried about Thai justice, but what to do? If I stay we run the risk of going down, but on the other hand, if we get out of dodge, I will be breaking the law as well. The prosecutor has appealled our case and I am not allowed to leave the country without permission from the court. I don't have Taksin Shinawatts clout and I doubt that the court would give us permission to leave. Oh dear. Mitch.

I see your problem mate and its a difficult one to call. I did not realise that the prosecutor had appealed against the decision so you obviously can't leave the country. Good luck in whatever you decide to do and please keep us posted.

Cheers, Rick

[Tony Clifton]

Despite all this, I love Thailand. It is my home.

You are insane or a troll?

I haven't had anything that crazy happen to me in my 5 years here but I am still moving out because to me it is a f*&^ up and dangerous country, your life is always hanging by a thread, either on the roads or when and because police presence too often means trouble instead of help, they rip off your car, motorcycle, strip your house, boat, bank accounts if they can after they've hauled you in. They'll even kill or take you hostage if they feel like it, been done before. If they find you dead, then there's a good chance your close ones will never know what really happened in your last moments on Earth. Then there's the courts.

Beats me how this is still a popular tourist destination.

[Old Croc]

Despite all this, I love Thailand. It is my home.

you seem to be a brave man Ian. i will submit your case to the Klingon High Council with the recommendation to award you with honorary Klingon citizenship.

congratulations on the outcome and joke aside. if something like this would have happened to me and my wife we'd take the next available flight out of Thailand.

If i was Ian i would be doing the same as soon as possible. Look at the case of Kevin Quill he was acquitted by the courts and then the supreme court overturned this ruling.

See below.

Kevin Quill, 45, former owner of the Fighting Cock pub, was arrested and convicted in 2001 on drug charges, which he has strenuously denied.

He served six months in a Thai jail before being granted bail. In 2005 the country's Court of Appeal acquitted Mr Quill of the charges saying there was no evidence against him.

However this week the case went to the Supreme Court who rejected the acquittal and sentenced him to six years' imprisonment.

Scource: Telegraph and Argus (British local paper)

How can anyone have any confidence in the Thai judicial system when you see this kind of thing happening. He had every chance not to return from the UK to Thailand when he was acquitted, but believed in the Thai system and he was sadly let down badly.

Cheers, Rick

Hi Rick. Thanks for the advice. It's a shitty situation we have cause on one hand this is, for better or worse our home now. Burnt all my bridges so to speak at home. I too am worried about Thai justice, but what to do? If I stay we run the risk of going down, but on the other hand, if we get out of dodge, I will be breaking the law as well. The prosecutor has appealled our case and I am not allowed to leave the country without permission from the court. I don't have Taksin Shinawatts clout and I doubt that the court would give us permission to leave. Oh dear. Mitch.

I see your problem mate and its a difficult one to call. I did not realise that the prosecutor had appealed against the decision so you obviously can't leave the country. Good luck in whatever you decide to do and please keep us posted.

Cheers, Rick

I'd be going for a quiet afternoon sail in a friends boat that ends in Malaysia.

Good luck with it all.

[logbags]

Well a simple fact is you are innocent and were found not guilty. I would hire a good lawyer and have him sue the police and make them responsible for your lost property as it is supposed to be kept safe while you are in custody. If found guilty they can confiscate it, not just steal it.

The Police running your case must take responsibility under Thai law and you have every right to sue them for wrongful arrest and losing your property. The car must have been registered and so must have been the bike. You can get your lawyer to trace who tranferred the registrations and sue them as well.

You must understand the Thai law and use it. The first thing you should do is cry loud and hard about your property being stolen and get it in the papers. Then get a lawyer on pro-bono and offer him a % of every baht returned and a % of any compo you get. You can lodge a huge claim for damages quoting the judge saying there was no evidence. If threatened with a law suit the appeal might disappear.

If there was no evidence, why the hel_l did the prosecutor proceed?? Sue that bastard as well. Sounds like a classic case of where they thought you'd buy your way out thus indicating some guilt. They probably thought you would just disappear home like so many others do whist they divided up your loot and property.

If there is no evidence, none can be manufactured now as they have had years to get it if there was anything. Alternatively, you can ask your lawyer to approach the police and negotiate. Tell them if your property is returned you will not sue. Then sue anyway after you get it back.

The book must get out as quickly as you can, Warren Fellows put his out so long after the event it was stale and old news, besides he was guilty and nobody gave a shit as he was a long time dealer.

You have the classic story with a yaht, a tropical paradise, bent cops, overzealous DEA wanke_rs and a brutal and antiquated jail system. Throw in the bribe offers and the fact you were found innocent in a corrupt system and you have the classic tale of darkness to light.

I think it is extremely important to get some newspaper stuff going to give you some profile so you protect your back so to speak. While under appeal the Thai papers may not want to touch it but "A Current Affair" or "Today Tonight" in Australia might love it.

I would try "60 minutes" first and ask for some serious dosh for a 20 minute story. This will get you some dosh to go after the people who wrongfully arrested you. The DEA might be liable as well and you could enmail the US Justice department for advice and hire a US lawyer on pro-bono.

Managed correctly you could turn this into a goldmine. Just start with a diary and note and date the whole story. If you get media just give the jist of the story and say the whole sordid saga will be revealed in your upcoming book. Try 4 corners at the ABC as well.

[newtronbom]

A disturbinng story, but as I do not have all the facts or knowledge of the case I will not comment further, except to ask if you have any recourse against the police officials that you believe looted your property and for the false imprisonment? Is there compensation available?

As for those that are going off on a tangent about the corrupt judges, I note that the OP did explicitly state that the judge was not happy with the policeman that perjured himself and that is believed to have planted the false evidence. If anything. it indicates that not everyone is corrupt.

I do hope that this story is picked up by the wire services as it is something that needs to be shared.

Thanks for your input. There is compensation available at 200 baht per day spent in prison. this princely sum will be given to us once the case is closed. As to recourse against the police, the judge told us that we have the right to sue the police for any loss of property, income, physical suffering and mental stress. Couple of problems with this. First off. All the recipts we had for property, house hold things, gold etc. and vehicles were taken by the police and appear to have gone missing. This includes our house papers but we have since obtained new ones. When I asked the judge about this he told me to get my lawyer to make up a list and he instructed the police to make up a list of what they confiscated. They didn't note down all that they took. Surprise surprise. The judge told the police that their list had better match my lawyers!! Yes I think we were very lucky to have a decent judge. They are not all corrupt. I did see more than a few people who were quite obviously innocent go down however. Though I must say that most of the men I met in there were guilty and didn't pretend otherwise.Any proceedings we may take however, will probably take years to go through court. I have tried to get together as many photos as I can for evidence - like the damage my yacht has suffered. Thanks.

[newtronbom]

Well a simple fact is you are innocent and were found not guilty. I would hire a good lawyer and have him sue the police and make them responsible for your lost property as it is supposed to be kept safe while you are in custody. If found guilty they can confiscate it, not just steal it.

The Police running your case must take responsibility under Thai law and you have every right to sue them for wrongful arrest and losing your property. The car must have been registered and so must have been the bike. You can get your lawyer to trace who tranferred the registrations and sue them as well.

You must understand the Thai law and use it. The first thing you should do is cry loud and hard about your property being stolen and get it in the papers. Then get a lawyer on pro-bono and offer him a % of every baht returned and a % of any compo you get. You can lodge a huge claim for damages quoting the judge saying there was no evidence. If threatened with a law suit the appeal might disappear.

If there was no evidence, why the hel_l did the prosecutor proceed?? Sue that bastard as well. Sounds like a classic case of where they thought you'd buy your way out thus indicating some guilt. They probably thought you would just disappear home like so many others do whist they divided up your loot and property.

If there is no evidence, none can be manufactured now as they have had years to get it if there was anything. Alternatively, you can ask your lawyer to approach the police and negotiate. Tell them if your property is returned you will not sue. Then sue anyway after you get it back.

The book must get out as quickly as you can, Warren Fellows put his out so long after the event it was stale and old news, besides he was guilty and nobody gave a shit as he was a long time dealer.

You have the classic story with a yaht, a tropical paradise, bent cops, overzealous DEA wanke_rs and a brutal and antiquated jail system. Throw in the bribe offers and the fact you were found innocent in a corrupt system and you have the classic tale of darkness to light.

I think it is extremely important to get some newspaper stuff going to give you some profile so you protect your back so to speak. While under appeal the Thai papers may not want to touch it but "A Current Affair" or "Today Tonight" in Australia might love it.

I would try "60 minutes" first and ask for some serious dosh for a 20 minute story. This will get you some dosh to go after the people who wrongfully arrested you. The DEA might be liable as well and you could enmail the US Justice department for advice and hire a US lawyer on pro-bono.

Managed correctly you could turn this into a goldmine. Just start with a diary and note and date the whole story. If you get media just give the jist of the story and say the whole sordid saga will be revealed in your upcoming book. Try 4 corners at the ABC as well.

Thanks for your advice logbags. This is exactly the kind of useful input we need. Your idea about a pro bono lawyer for example. Does such a beast exist in T/L?? Am sure we can get copies of the vehicle regos. You mentioned as to why the prosecutor proceeded. About half way through the case, the prosecutor and one of the high ranking police officers had a screaming match in court over all the false evidence the police gave him. He had egg all over his face. The judge that day ordered a stop to the proceedings and a break the next day to let all parties cool down. Our case should have been thrown out right then. It started over a photo the police used for evidence from a hotel in Bangkok. The photo showed my face clearly. However, when the hotel manager was questioned by my lawyer, he admitted that the original photo off their hotel security feed was black and that the police had told him to say in court that the fake evidence photo was real. He had seen how things were going I think, and was scared of going down for perjury! As for the DEA.....my wife was told by them to go into a room and sit down. This was in Phuket. I was not with her. They then opened up two suitcases full of heroin and took photos of her with it, which were later used in court. They told her to "bury me" and save her self. When she asked if they wanted her to lie, they said why should she care. My wife has never broken a single law in any country. They knew we were innocent from the start. They told me that I was a dead man and that they would have the evidence would prove it. You are right when you say that this would make a good story. I will dig around a few news outfits and see if they are interested. Time is passing and we do need some finance!! Mitch

[logbags]

You should be grateful you were not tried by a jury of 12 Thaivisa.com members. They had you tried, convicted and executed with extreme prejudice after reading one article in the local news.

Funny how nobody asks where the 40 kilos came from in the first place? Funny how nobody had no idea of where it was going. 40 kgs indicates a big syndicate, triad connected, run from Hong Kong most likely. These boys would have been just some low rankers with gambling debts or other issues with the triads.

Where is the 40 kgs now? Destroyed or resold? Nobody saw who they bought it off in Bangkok I bet

This story if anything has shown how readily people accept what they read in the paper regardless of the facts. It seems like a clear case of putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 9. It also shows why you must be careful of who you mix with in Thailand.

The 4 month operation involving 4 countries is crap, just Police waffle to justify the bill clocked up. A classic "powder on the table bust," no drug baron arrested, no syndicate dismantled. Just some scapegoats and low ranking couriers and a lot of powder for press photos.

Just having the dosh to buy 40 kilos and the contacts to distribute it indicates a major syndicate. People tend to think people just fly over and buy kilos of smack at the local market. The truth is you must be heavily connected in the underworld to even get to know who to talk to about this much heroin.

Only a major international syndicate could distribute that much. I can't see the Hong Kong godfathers entrusting 40 kgs that to one lone Kiwi and his Thai wife.

p.s All Kiwis are reminded, there are still 200 shoplifting days left till Christmas

[hagler]

hmmmm...my understanding of the situation is that you were under surveillance by a multinational task force of DEA agencies for quite some time ( at least 5 months) prior to your arrest in Phuket. Why would they take such an interest in such an innoculous person seemingly picked from random? Always fascinates me how completely innocent people come under the watchful eyes of government agencies. Guess the book will help to shed some light on that. Should be an interesting read.

[bob4you]

In US or maybe UK finding a lawyer to take the case "pro bono" means without pay, but for the honor and glory his reputation might attain is possible. In Thailand I think it impossible, has anyone heard of attorneys taking on a major case for free? I doubt it. On the other hand to offer them a % could work, but remember here in Thailand lawyers have a tendency to disappear when they go head to head with the big boys and the establishment. Even the litigants tend to vanish if they look like they are getting too close to the heart of the graft.

[aqua4]

Good on you mate!

I thank you for your story as this forum is usually full of apologists who can't see the bear from the woods. Your story highlights what happens behind the scenes. Very insightful and your book would make for a wonderful read. I am amazed however that you don't appear to feel/show any anger after all that you have been through. Well done again on getting justice to take its course.

Cheers

[kurgen]

p.s All Kiwis are reminded, there are still 200 shoplifting days left till Christmas tongue.gif

joking aside, if you're going to try and make money out of this then you'd best keep looking over your shoulder.

Chock Dee

[LaoPo]

I've read the other original topic* from 2005 and what scares me most is that the OP and his wife, based on news articles, were definitely judged & found guilty by quite a few Thaivisa members, back then

It also means that WHATEVER newspapers and -agencies write, WHATEVER Police and DEA tell you..... people just do believe what's written/told...It also means that a lot of us are brainwashed by the same newspapers and -agencies, Police and/or DEA.

The Police/DEA and others not only framed the OP & his wife; they framed the readers and Thaivisa members as well by publishing lies. I even read the article saying that ALL 4 members of the 'gang' confessed...

A lot of people are not able anymore to step back and think for a while and form their own opinion and/or ask questions before they point their finger: YOU ARE GUILTY !

I've said it before and repeat it once more:

My worst nightmare is to end up in (a Thai) jail.....innocent. But....(some) Thaivisa members will judge you, no matter what.....

I wish the OP & his wife well and hope they're able to enjoy their lives again once this nightmare has come to an end.

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...hl=ian%20newton

LaoPo

[logbags]

I've read the other original topic* from 2005 and what scares me most is that the OP and his wife, based on news articles, were definitely judged & found guilty by quite a few Thaivisa members, back then

It also means that WHATEVER newspapers and -agencies write, WHATEVER Police and DEA tell you..... people just do believe what's written/told...It also means that a lot of us are brainwashed by the same newspapers and -agencies, Police and/or DEA.

The Police/DEA and others not only framed the OP & his wife; they framed the readers and Thaivisa members as well by publishing lies. I even read the article saying that ALL 4 members of the 'gang' confessed...

Like the "War on Terror" the "Weapons of mass destruction" "Al Quada" and even the Y2K bug. All fear mongering by vested interests who know that the human being lives on two primary emotions- fear and hope.

The US neo-cons mass produce fear and offer hope of a solution which is usually to simply remove more of our freedom by laws, bomb scanners or the soon to be released microchips like we already have on credit cards. A war just takes tax payers money and moves it to the private sector. War is the worlds best business for certain large corporations.

The banks lend money to people until they are in hock up to their eyeballs then engineer a crisis like the US sub-prime to inflate interest and the cost of living. This is leading us to a crash of epic proportions where all that lent money will return back to the bankers. It's time people woke up to the fact we are no better than serfs and do something about it. Most of the money people borrow doesn't actually exist, never did, yet you pay compound interest on phantom money.

Most farangs in Thailand know what they know by either reading the Bangkok Post or the Nation newspaper. The cable news stations like CNN and Fox news are so controlled you can't take them seriously. So you are virtually a captive of the mass media whether you like it or not.

This drug case is a classic case of where a person was tried, convicted and executed before any evidence was even presented. Those of us who have had dealings with both the Police and media know that they both don't give a hoot about the human side of a case. The fact this guy has lost everything including his reputation means nothing to them.

These khaki clad crims have knicked all his gear and cash and we actually think they will protect us with the law, shows what dam_n fools we are. The problem in Thailand is a paradox, individual Police in many cases are nice people who have been corrupted by the system. The system doesn't support honesty and integrity and it starts right at the top like a pyramid of corruption.

My nephew is a high ranking official in Phuket. He bought his job for 100,000 baht many years ago. He and his wife make millions off corruption. He told me that high ranking officials and Police often rake off 100's of millions of baht in bribes on a yearly scale. That is correct 100's of millions of baht.

He recently pointed out the fact that Phuket brings in more foreign currency, more tax and more overall revenue than any other province in Thailand. Yet the infrastructure is crumbling, there is not enough water, land fill for rubbish is almost full and the roads are falling apart from too much heavy traffic.

So where does all this tax and foreign exchange end up? The Police have to be corrupt just to survive as they are so low paid. People like Thaksin have set such a bad example in the excessive worship of money and money has given him such an unrealistic profile it is hard to see how the current problems afflicting Thailand can be solved. The upcoming financial meltdown worldwide is going to really test how much we understand about our financial slavery.

My Thai niece said to me recently. "Thai people worship and respect rich people regardless of how they have made their money, they "kreengjai" these people even if deep down they know they are crooks. This fear and respect of the ruling classes goes back centuries and is deeply rooted in the Thai psyche"

I have great faith in the spirit of the Thai people, no faith however in any politicion, Thai or farang......................

[GungaDin]

Hi Ian.

Congratulations on your release.

I would take Old Croc's advice and get out of Dodge ASAP.

Your release has made all those brown shirted shi*es lose face, big time.

Good luck whatever you do in the future, but not in the Land of Lies.

GD

PS, I'll bet The Ranch that your book will be banned in Thailand!

Edited May 12, 2008 by GungaDin

[JohnPeel]

Hello members. My name is Ian Newton. My wife and I are free!!!. We were in prison for 22 months. I won't even begin to describe the conditions there. This website ran an article on me and my wife, when we got busted in Phuket for heroin in October 2005 on our yacht. First off my name really is Ian Newton. No false passport as averred by the police. I was born in the UK but grew up in New Zealand. We had nothing to do with the drug bust. There were no drugs found on us or our property. We are totally innocent as we proved in court!! The Judge said that there were no grounds for the arrest and imprisonment of us by the police. There was no evidence at all, linking us to the crime during the 4 months surveillance by the police, nor in the following 24 months that it took to hear our case and be set free. Not that the police didn't try! It is not easy to win a case like this in Thailand. If any of you want the full story, please let me know and I will send it. I do note that one of our members did have his doubts. He was right about the hearsay but wrong about the passport. Cheers people. Ian Newton.

Be cool here. You will receive all sorts of advice, some good. But first forget completely about the Thai newspapers.

Your case was reported incorrectly as usual because the Thai journalists prints what the police say. If they dont they would cease to function on their local patch. The 'farang' newspapers here are no better.

If you want to go for high profile you will need to select a news organisation in your home country. UK? New Zealand?

With the latter there are less rewards and the news organisations wont pay vast amounts of money I guess - unless a TV operation can actually do a sting.

The main question I pose myself is why? It appears you were put on a watch list probably by the DEA, who if I'm guessing correctly,probably initiated this otherwise they wd not have been invited along.

If you believe it is just Thais who came across you because you were in the same hotels in Bangkok and Phuket then I guess the DEA would have wanted to sit in on any interviews conducted with you and your wife. Did they?

From my experience the DEA (who may have even supplied the heroin as part of a sting) do try and make an attempt at intelligence gathering after an arrest. Did you co-operate or refuse to say anything? I would have screamed my innocence from the rooftops!!

DEA suggests HK Chinese sending to USA of course. Its not unusual for H to go from BKK to Phuket (and now Krabi) before going international.

Have the police come up with a list of items seized and why did not the marina protect the yacht?

That fact that you were robbed of your possessions is usual in Thailand in cases like this (sad to say). They assume u ur not coming out.

The prosecutor's main reason for appealing (and this will take four years) may of course be to prevent you from sueing. If you lose the appeal you then go to Supreme Court - another four years. This invariably happens, especially in farang cases.

You might be able to get permission from the court to go home. Discuss this with your lawyer. This is probably what everyone wants and you can tell your story in safety. Did you get the trial transcripts or at least the judgment translated into English

After from the silly incident involving the laced ganja can you show a clean previous record?

I know this is not necessarily relevant to this offence but it may be relevant to a news organisation who will 100 per cent need to present a sympathetic character. (Warren Fellowes in 'The Damage Done' was pretty much an amoral sleaze-bag).

Hope this helps - and if I can let me know.

[sbk]

A thought, he might be able to get permission to go home but unless the case against his wife was dropped completely then wouldn't she be stuck here? Would any govt even consider giving her a visa knowing she is up for trial? Something to consider, I think.

[newtronbom]

Can i ask what the British or NZ Embassies done to help you throughout this, and did fair trials abroad get involved?

Well that you ask. They did nothing to help at the time and are doing nothing now that we are out. Fair trials did not get involved. Mitch

[newtronbom]

Hello members. My name is Ian Newton. My wife and I are free!!!. We were in prison for 22 months. I won't even begin to describe the conditions there. This website ran an article on me and my wife, when we got busted in Phuket for heroin in October 2005 on our yacht. First off my name really is Ian Newton. No false passport as averred by the police. I was born in the UK but grew up in New Zealand. We had nothing to do with the drug bust. There were no drugs found on us or our property. We are totally innocent as we proved in court!! The Judge said that there were no grounds for the arrest and imprisonment of us by the police. There was no evidence at all, linking us to the crime during the 4 months surveillance by the police, nor in the following 24 months that it took to hear our case and be set free. Not that the police didn't try! It is not easy to win a case like this in Thailand. If any of you want the full story, please let me know and I will send it. I do note that one of our members did have his doubts. He was right about the hearsay but wrong about the passport. Cheers people. Ian Newton.

Be cool here. You will receive all sorts of advice, some good. But first forget completely about the Thai newspapers.

Your case was reported incorrectly as usual because the Thai journalists prints what the police say. If they dont they would cease to function on their local patch. The 'farang' newspapers here are no better.

If you want to go for high profile you will need to select a news organisation in your home country. UK? New Zealand?

With the latter there are less rewards and the news organisations wont pay vast amounts of money I guess - unless a TV operation can actually do a sting.

The main question I pose myself is why? It appears you were put on a watch list probably by the DEA, who if I'm guessing correctly,probably initiated this otherwise they wd not have been invited along.

If you believe it is just Thais who came across you because you were in the same hotels in Bangkok and Phuket then I guess the DEA would have wanted to sit in on any interviews conducted with you and your wife. Did they?

From my experience the DEA (who may have even supplied the heroin as part of a sting) do try and make an attempt at intelligence gathering after an arrest. Did you co-operate or refuse to say anything? I would have screamed my innocence from the rooftops!!

DEA suggests HK Chinese sending to USA of course. Its not unusual for H to go from BKK to Phuket (and now Krabi) before going international.

Have the police come up with a list of items seized and why did not the marina protect the yacht?

That fact that you were robbed of your possessions is usual in Thailand in cases like this (sad to say). They assume u ur not coming out.

The prosecutor's main reason for appealing (and this will take four years) may of course be to prevent you from sueing. If you lose the appeal you then go to Supreme Court - another four years. This invariably happens, especially in farang cases.

You might be able to get permission from the court to go home. Discuss this with your lawyer. This is probably what everyone wants and you can tell your story in safety. Did you get the trial transcripts or at least the judgment translated into English

After from the silly incident involving the laced ganja can you show a clean previous record?

I know this is not necessarily relevant to this offence but it may be relevant to a news organisation who will 100 per cent need to present a sympathetic character. (Warren Fellowes in 'The Damage Done' was pretty much an amoral sleaze-bag).

Hope this helps - and if I can let me know.

Thanks for your interest and advice. The DEA were in this at the first (found that out from one of my HK case partners) as they had picked up a tip that there was a big drug thing going down here. The two HK guys (who were just boys as you said) were followed from HK all the way here. They got me out of a video surveilance camera at a hotel in Bangkok. They ran me through their computer and saw that I had a prior. They then followed us until the time we were arrested. They did not interview me after Phuket. They, the Taiwan drug police and the HK drug police did a lot of interviews of the two HK guys at the police head quarters here in Bangkok. I am telling you that they knew dam well that my wife and I had nothing to do with this. But I had a prior right, so I'm scum anyway and must deserve going away even if i'm not connected to this particular bust. They were way over the top man. No one seems to know where the H came from. The two guys picked it up from an apartment here in Bangkok.

As for my earlier record, I've been done for grass a few times but nothing here ever. Been straight up here nothing to hide. As to going back to the UK or NZ, I have nothing at either of those places and thanks to this my name is shit now any way. You should know, once you're on the news you're guilty right? Just my step mum in NZ and my folks in the UK kicked me out of there and sent me to live with rllies in NZ when I was 3 years old. This is where i'm at and We have a beautiful place just outside Bangkok (puttamonton sai2) that is all ours free of debt. It's worth around 9 mill according to the land department. Spent many hours doing it up myself. What I cant get my head around is my yacht. What do I do about that? It needs anti fouling real bad or the worm will get in. Then there is the damage that the police did to it when they crashed another boat into it. We dont have the $$ to fix it and it does need a fair amount of maintenance or it will sink soon. When I asked the police about it they told me it my problem. They dont care if it sinks!! So sue them they say. I have a lot of my court papers translated into english but not all. Could get the rest done but cant afford it. Man what a mess. If you can see an angle that I cant that would help us out, I would love you to tell me. Nothing to stop me chartering the yacht, but I need doe to get it sea worthy. We are also concerned that the police may try to leave a little present on board. Have friends looking after now but who knows?? Owe the marina a fortune in mooring fees, but the manager trusts me to pay it eventually. Cheers. Mitch Newton.

[onnut]

Well a simple fact is you are innocent and were found not guilty. I would hire a good lawyer and have him sue the police and make them responsible for your lost property as it is supposed to be kept safe while you are in custody. If found guilty they can confiscate it, not just steal it.

The Police running your case must take responsibility under Thai law and you have every right to sue them for wrongful arrest and losing your property. The car must have been registered and so must have been the bike. You can get your lawyer to trace who tranferred the registrations and sue them as well.

You must understand the Thai law and use it. The first thing you should do is cry loud and hard about your property being stolen and get it in the papers. Then get a lawyer on pro-bono and offer him a % of every baht returned and a % of any compo you get. You can lodge a huge claim for damages quoting the judge saying there was no evidence. If threatened with a law suit the appeal might disappear.

If there was no evidence, why the hel_l did the prosecutor proceed?? Sue that bastard as well. Sounds like a classic case of where they thought you'd buy your way out thus indicating some guilt. They probably thought you would just disappear home like so many others do whist they divided up your loot and property.

If there is no evidence, none can be manufactured now as they have had years to get it if there was anything. Alternatively, you can ask your lawyer to approach the police and negotiate. Tell them if your property is returned you will not sue. Then sue anyway after you get it back.

The book must get out as quickly as you can, Warren Fellows put his out so long after the event it was stale and old news, besides he was guilty and nobody gave a shit as he was a long time dealer.

You have the classic story with a yaht, a tropical paradise, bent cops, overzealous DEA wanke_rs and a brutal and antiquated jail system. Throw in the bribe offers and the fact you were found innocent in a corrupt system and you have the classic tale of darkness to light.

I think it is extremely important to get some newspaper stuff going to give you some profile so you protect your back so to speak. While under appeal the Thai papers may not want to touch it but "A Current Affair" or "Today Tonight" in Australia might love it.

I would try "60 minutes" first and ask for some serious dosh for a 20 minute story. This will get you some dosh to go after the people who wrongfully arrested you. The DEA might be liable as well and you could enmail the US Justice department for advice and hire a US lawyer on pro-bono.

Managed correctly you could turn this into a goldmine. Just start with a diary and note and date the whole story. If you get media just give the jist of the story and say the whole sordid saga will be revealed in your upcoming book. Try 4 corners at the ABC as well.

if this was the uk then I would sue, but the problem here is that the lawyer will probably get shot. how many times has that happenend, i bet you an money that you could not find a lawyer that will go up against the police like that.

you are best off to write a book about it and market it correctly to make as much money as possible.

good luck

[JohnPeel]

Hello members. My name is Ian Newton. My wife and I are free!!!. We were in prison for 22 months. I won't even begin to describe the conditions there. This website ran an article on me and my wife, when we got busted in Phuket for heroin in October 2005 on our yacht. First off my name really is Ian Newton. No false passport as averred by the police. I was born in the UK but grew up in New Zealand. We had nothing to do with the drug bust. There were no drugs found on us or our property. We are totally innocent as we proved in court!! The Judge said that there were no grounds for the arrest and imprisonment of us by the police. There was no evidence at all, linking us to the crime during the 4 months surveillance by the police, nor in the following 24 months that it took to hear our case and be set free. Not that the police didn't try! It is not easy to win a case like this in Thailand. If any of you want the full story, please let me know and I will send it. I do note that one of our members did have his doubts. He was right about the hearsay but wrong about the passport. Cheers people. Ian Newton.

Be cool here. You will receive all sorts of advice, some good. But first forget completely about the Thai newspapers.

Your case was reported incorrectly as usual because the Thai journalists prints what the police say. If they dont they would cease to function on their local patch. The 'farang' newspapers here are no better.

If you want to go for high profile you will need to select a news organisation in your home country. UK? New Zealand?

With the latter there are less rewards and the news organisations wont pay vast amounts of money I guess - unless a TV operation can actually do a sting.

The main question I pose myself is why? It appears you were put on a watch list probably by the DEA, who if I'm guessing correctly,probably initiated this otherwise they wd not have been invited along.

If you believe it is just Thais who came across you because you were in the same hotels in Bangkok and Phuket then I guess the DEA would have wanted to sit in on any interviews conducted with you and your wife. Did they?

From my experience the DEA (who may have even supplied the heroin as part of a sting) do try and make an attempt at intelligence gathering after an arrest. Did you co-operate or refuse to say anything? I would have screamed my innocence from the rooftops!!

DEA suggests HK Chinese sending to USA of course. Its not unusual for H to go from BKK to Phuket (and now Krabi) before going international.

Have the police come up with a list of items seized and why did not the marina protect the yacht?

That fact that you were robbed of your possessions is usual in Thailand in cases like this (sad to say). They assume u ur not coming out.

The prosecutor's main reason for appealing (and this will take four years) may of course be to prevent you from sueing. If you lose the appeal you then go to Supreme Court - another four years. This invariably happens, especially in farang cases.

You might be able to get permission from the court to go home. Discuss this with your lawyer. This is probably what everyone wants and you can tell your story in safety. Did you get the trial transcripts or at least the judgment translated into English

After from the silly incident involving the laced ganja can you show a clean previous record?

I know this is not necessarily relevant to this offence but it may be relevant to a news organisation who will 100 per cent need to present a sympathetic character. (Warren Fellowes in 'The Damage Done' was pretty much an amoral sleaze-bag).

Hope this helps - and if I can let me know.

Thanks for your interest and advice. The DEA were in this at the first (found that out from one of my HK case partners) as they had picked up a tip that there was a big drug thing going down here. The two HK guys (who were just boys as you said) were followed from HK all the way here. They got me out of a video surveilance camera at a hotel in Bangkok. They ran me through their computer and saw that I had a prior. They then followed us until the time we were arrested. They did not interview me after Phuket. They, the Taiwan drug police and the HK drug police did a lot of interviews of the two HK guys at the police head quarters here in Bangkok. I am telling you that they knew dam well that my wife and I had nothing to do with this. But I had a prior right, so I'm scum anyway and must deserve going away even if i'm not connected to this particular bust. They were way over the top man. No one seems to know where the H came from. The two guys picked it up from an apartment here in Bangkok.

As for my earlier record, I've been done for grass a few times but nothing here ever. Been straight up here nothing to hide. As to going back to the UK or NZ, I have nothing at either of those places and thanks to this my name is shit now any way. You should know, once you're on the news you're guilty right? Just my step mum in NZ and my folks in the UK kicked me out of there and sent me to live with rllies in NZ when I was 3 years old. This is where i'm at and We have a beautiful place just outside Bangkok (puttamonton sai2) that is all ours free of debt. It's worth around 9 mill according to the land department. Spent many hours doing it up myself. What I cant get my head around is my yacht. What do I do about that? It needs anti fouling real bad or the worm will get in. Then there is the damage that the police did to it when they crashed another boat into it. We dont have the $$ to fix it and it does need a fair amount of maintenance or it will sink soon. When I asked the police about it they told me it my problem. They dont care if it sinks!! So sue them they say. I have a lot of my court papers translated into english but not all. Could get the rest done but cant afford it. Man what a mess. If you can see an angle that I cant that would help us out, I would love you to tell me. Nothing to stop me chartering the yacht, but I need doe to get it sea worthy. We are also concerned that the police may try to leave a little present on board. Have friends looking after now but who knows?? Owe the marina a fortune in mooring fees, but the manager trusts me to pay it eventually. Cheers. Mitch Newton.

Many thanks for that: Now playing devil's advocate a little bit. According to cuttings New Zealand police were also involved in this as well as the DEA.

Now that you mention that you have other offences for ganga (moving it?) if I were them and your name came up in connection with a triad gang I would assume you had moved to the heavy stuff. Its not a big leap.

(Yes I know ganga dealers say they dont touch smack but that is an assertion which time after time has proved wrong. There was a time when ganga was getting higher prices btw in Japan for example)

The fact that you have a house and yacht obviously begs the question in what trade were you involved to get the cash to make those purposes.)

In terms of the trial Thai police will fit up evidence anyway. They cant help themselves. And they like to have lots of photos.I have seen them do this at first hand even when the defendant has pleaded guilty.

But you do seem to agree that Thai police took hundreds of pictures of you under surveillance over two months, which does seem to suggest that even before the HK boys arrived, you were a suspect in the SAME operation.

Another point of view might be that this was an arrest that the Thai police screwed up but the DEA et all did not want to let you get away. My sincere apologies for posing this theory. I am sure there are appropriate answers.

[Andiamo]

Despite all this, I love Thailand. It is my home.

you seem to be a brave man Ian. i will submit your case to the Klingon High Council with the recommendation to award you with honorary Klingon citizenship.

congratulations on the outcome and joke aside. if something like this would have happened to me and my wife we'd take the next available flight out of Thailand.

If i was Ian i would be doing the same as soon as possible. Look at the case of Kevin Quill he was acquitted by the courts and then the supreme court overturned this ruling.

See below.

Kevin Quill, 45, former owner of the Fighting Cock pub, was arrested and convicted in 2001 on drug charges, which he has strenuously denied.

He served six months in a Thai jail before being granted bail. In 2005 the country's Court of Appeal acquitted Mr Quill of the charges saying there was no evidence against him.

However this week the case went to the Supreme Court who rejected the acquittal and sentenced him to six years' imprisonment.

Scource: Telegraph and Argus (British local paper)

How can anyone have any confidence in the Thai judicial system when you see this kind of thing happening. He had every chance not to return from the UK to Thailand when he was acquitted, but believed in the Thai system and he was sadly let down badly.

Cheers, Rick

Hi Rick. Thanks for the advice. It's a shitty situation we have cause on one hand this is, for better or worse our home now. Burnt all my bridges so to speak at home. I too am worried about Thai justice, but what to do? If I stay we run the risk of going down, but on the other hand, if we get out of dodge, I will be breaking the law as well. The prosecutor has appealled our case and I am not allowed to leave the country without permission from the court. I don't have Taksin Shinawatts clout and I doubt that the court would give us permission to leave. Oh dear. Mitch.

Firstly, "Congratulations" on yours and your wife's release after serving 22 months in a Thai jail! I can only imagine how horrendous it must have been inside. (I hear enough about the poor conditions in Bangkok Remand Prison and Klong Prem Prison in Bangkok).

I can't believe that it took 22 months for your case to come to court - the wheels of justice turn so slowly in Thailand. From what you have written above, it seems that your nightmare is far from over. Despite being acquitted, the State Prosecutor is appealing the verdict??? Have I understood correctly? Therefore you are not supposed to leave the country without prior approval from the Court. right?

How long will it take to reach the Supreme Court (Dika Court)? It could be anything from 6 months to 18 months to 2 years right? So in the meantime, your life remains in limbo. Has you lawyer advised you of the timeline? I still find it very hard to understand why - after all you and your wife have been through - why on earth do you want to stay in a country such as this which as treated you like this??

I think you should now be weighing up the possible outcomes if this is going forward to the Dika Court:-

1) You are succesful, win your case and you are declared a free man.

2) You are unsuccessful - what is the minimum and maximum sentence? (Remember that the original sentence handed down by the initial court can also be increased at this point if I understand correctly).

Perhaps something to consider... try and get a sounding via your Lawyer/another Lawyer as to the likelihood of you obtaining compassionate leave for you and your wife to leave the coutry to get medical treatment or visit your or her "sick" mother in NZ/UK and then it is up to you if you return or don't return for the Supreme Court Trial.....

Although you should be aware that the Supreme Court hearing will not be run like it is in the West. In Thailand, your Lawyer and the State Prosecutor will submit all their papers and arguments in advance (I think you have 1 month from when the State Prosecutor files an appeal for you to submit all papers). Then, on the date of the Supreme Court hearing, the verdict which has already been decided, is just read out. So you will not have a chance to speak up at all at the hearing.

I am not sure what happens in the event the defendant is "absent"?????????? i.e. if you and your wife ARE granted leave to exit the country but then YOU decide NOT to return here for the Supreme Court trial. Perhaps you forfeit the case? (Something to find out from your Lawyer or call up the British Embassy for advice).

Depending upon what decision you make, you and your wife can sell your house etc and start again in another country. Or return to a country with a PROPER police force!@

I think you need to now be finding out LOTS of information in terms of dealing with a best case and worst case scenario and the odds. If you have family financial support, you may want to consider engaging another lawyer who specialises in Supreme Court cases and sound them out on your likely verdict.... It pays to be wise in advance as many can tell you from bitter experience.

I would also strongly advise you to get either the British or NZ Embassies on side. What a difference if they can submit a document of support on your behalf and/or attend the Supreme Court Hearing.....

All I would also say is Thailand is just one country, you and your wife have already seen 22 months inside a Thai jail. This will no doubt have left some terrible scars and aged you in ways that many Posters cannot even begin to comprehend. Ask yourself are you really prepared if the verdict does go against you. And I am sorry to say that I would not equate levels of justice at the Supreme Court here with the Supreme Courts in Western countries.

Furthermore, IMO which I may be wrong and apologies if I sound negative here but as a consequence of the above, your name will ALWAYS be flagged in this country. Can you live with the unknown bust and arrest at 2am as you have previously been picked out by the Thai Police? (Those bastions of honour and justice ).

Once again apologies if I seem overly negative, I am just trying to be realistic.

The Very Best of luck and health to you and your wife.

Andiamo

[cotambear]

GET AN AGENT

You deserve every penny (is it dime in oz)? after what youve been through - an agent - a GOOD one (search) will help you achieve this.

[newtronbom]

Hello members. My name is Ian Newton. My wife and I are free!!!. We were in prison for 22 months. I won't even begin to describe the conditions there. This website ran an article on me and my wife, when we got busted in Phuket for heroin in October 2005 on our yacht. First off my name really is Ian Newton. No false passport as averred by the police. I was born in the UK but grew up in New Zealand. We had nothing to do with the drug bust. There were no drugs found on us or our property. We are totally innocent as we proved in court!! The Judge said that there were no grounds for the arrest and imprisonment of us by the police. There was no evidence at all, linking us to the crime during the 4 months surveillance by the police, nor in the following 24 months that it took to hear our case and be set free. Not that the police didn't try! It is not easy to win a case like this in Thailand. If any of you want the full story, please let me know and I will send it. I do note that one of our members did have his doubts. He was right about the hearsay but wrong about the passport. Cheers people. Ian Newton.

Be cool here. You will receive all sorts of advice, some good. But first forget completely about the Thai newspapers.

Your case was reported incorrectly as usual because the Thai journalists prints what the police say. If they dont they would cease to function on their local patch. The 'farang' newspapers here are no better.

If you want to go for high profile you will need to select a news organisation in your home country. UK? New Zealand?

With the latter there are less rewards and the news organisations wont pay vast amounts of money I guess - unless a TV operation can actually do a sting.

The main question I pose myself is why? It appears you were put on a watch list probably by the DEA, who if I'm guessing correctly,probably initiated this otherwise they wd not have been invited along.

If you believe it is just Thais who came across you because you were in the same hotels in Bangkok and Phuket then I guess the DEA would have wanted to sit in on any interviews conducted with you and your wife. Did they?

From my experience the DEA (who may have even supplied the heroin as part of a sting) do try and make an attempt at intelligence gathering after an arrest. Did you co-operate or refuse to say anything? I would have screamed my innocence from the rooftops!!

DEA suggests HK Chinese sending to USA of course. Its not unusual for H to go from BKK to Phuket (and now Krabi) before going international.

Have the police come up with a list of items seized and why did not the marina protect the yacht?

That fact that you were robbed of your possessions is usual in Thailand in cases like this (sad to say). They assume u ur not coming out.

The prosecutor's main reason for appealing (and this will take four years) may of course be to prevent you from sueing. If you lose the appeal you then go to Supreme Court - another four years. This invariably happens, especially in farang cases.

You might be able to get permission from the court to go home. Discuss this with your lawyer. This is probably what everyone wants and you can tell your story in safety. Did you get the trial transcripts or at least the judgment translated into English

After from the silly incident involving the laced ganja can you show a clean previous record?

I know this is not necessarily relevant to this offence but it may be relevant to a news organisation who will 100 per cent need to present a sympathetic character. (Warren Fellowes in 'The Damage Done' was pretty much an amoral sleaze-bag).

Hope this helps - and if I can let me know.

Thanks for your interest and advice. The DEA were in this at the first (found that out from one of my HK case partners) as they had picked up a tip that there was a big drug thing going down here. The two HK guys (who were just boys as you said) were followed from HK all the way here. They got me out of a video surveilance camera at a hotel in Bangkok. They ran me through their computer and saw that I had a prior. They then followed us until the time we were arrested. They did not interview me after Phuket. They, the Taiwan drug police and the HK drug police did a lot of interviews of the two HK guys at the police head quarters here in Bangkok. I am telling you that they knew dam well that my wife and I had nothing to do with this. But I had a prior right, so I'm scum anyway and must deserve going away even if i'm not connected to this particular bust. They were way over the top man. No one seems to know where the H came from. The two guys picked it up from an apartment here in Bangkok.

As for my earlier record, I've been done for grass a few times but nothing here ever. Been straight up here nothing to hide. As to going back to the UK or NZ, I have nothing at either of those places and thanks to this my name is shit now any way. You should know, once you're on the news you're guilty right? Just my step mum in NZ and my folks in the UK kicked me out of there and sent me to live with rllies in NZ when I was 3 years old. This is where i'm at and We have a beautiful place just outside Bangkok (puttamonton sai2) that is all ours free of debt. It's worth around 9 mill according to the land department. Spent many hours doing it up myself. What I cant get my head around is my yacht. What do I do about that? It needs anti fouling real bad or the worm will get in. Then there is the damage that the police did to it when they crashed another boat into it. We dont have the $ to fix it and it does need a fair amount of maintenance or it will sink soon. When I asked the police about it they told me it my problem. They dont care if it sinks!! So sue them they say. I have a lot of my court papers translated into english but not all. Could get the rest done but cant afford it. Man what a mess. If you can see an angle that I cant that would help us out, I would love you to tell me. Nothing to stop me chartering the yacht, but I need doe to get it sea worthy. We are also concerned that the police may try to leave a little present on board. Have friends looking after now but who knows?? Owe the marina a fortune in mooring fees, but the manager trusts me to pay it eventually. Cheers. Mitch Newton.

Many thanks for that: Now playing devil's advocate a little bit. According to cuttings New Zealand police were also involved in this as well as the DEA.

Now that you mention that you have other offences for ganga (moving it?) if I were them and your name came up in connection with a triad gang I would assume you had moved to the heavy stuff. Its not a big leap.

(Yes I know ganga dealers say they dont touch smack but that is an assertion which time after time has proved wrong. There was a time when ganga was getting higher prices btw in Japan for example)

The fact that you have a house and yacht obviously begs the question in what trade were you involved to get the cash to make those purposes.)

In terms of the trial Thai police will fit up evidence anyway. They cant help themselves. And they like to have lots of photos.I have seen them do this at first hand even when the defendant has pleaded guilty.

But you do seem to agree that Thai police took hundreds of pictures of you under surveillance over two months, which does seem to suggest that even before the HK boys arrived, you were a suspect in the SAME operation.

Another point of view might be that this was an arrest that the Thai police screwed up but the DEA et all did not want to let you get away. My sincere apologies for posing this theory. I am sure there are appropriate answers.

Don't be sorry. It's good to have some one looking at all angles, as can often pic up things that would otherwise be missed. Appreciate your frankness. The two HK guys were here over a month before we came under the spotlight. The house and yacht were both legally paid for, as we proved to the police early in the interrogation at Phuket. The point being that initially, yes they had to check us out. I do graphics for advertising and video games (or I did until I went to prison!! Out of it too long and too old anyway now). The NZ (embassy)police were called in by me from the embassy here in BKK. I knew the head man here then. A pretty straight shooter. Believe me, his advice and help were invaluable. His opinion of the DEA is not what I would call high either. For my past offences I was never involved in dealling or selling. Got rapped on the knuckles for growin my own once though. Cost me 500$NZ!! No, it just doesn't pan out. The surveilance on us was as a result of me being in a hotel that the two HK guys visited. My history gave them a reason to check us out, but not to put us away for over 2 years to trial. The house and yacht would have been childs play for them to check out, as would have been my business. The surveilance would have only have shown them even more that we were innocent. I am sure that the DEA had the first "heads up" on this case in Hong Kong and followed it through to Phuket. If they were so sure the heroin was going to us, why didn't they wait for it to be delivered to me or for me to pick it up instead of arresting those guys at their hotel?? I mean any one could have seen that we were going no where. My 70 year old mum was with us on the boat when we were arrested. She was lucky not to end up with us in prison. As I say, it just doesn't add up. Mitch.

[newtronbom]

Despite all this, I love Thailand. It is my home.

you seem to be a brave man Ian. i will submit your case to the Klingon High Council with the recommendation to award you with honorary Klingon citizenship.

congratulations on the outcome and joke aside. if something like this would have happened to me and my wife we'd take the next available flight out of Thailand.

If i was Ian i would be doing the same as soon as possible. Look at the case of Kevin Quill he was acquitted by the courts and then the supreme court overturned this ruling.

See below.

Kevin Quill, 45, former owner of the Fighting Cock pub, was arrested and convicted in 2001 on drug charges, which he has strenuously denied.

He served six months in a Thai jail before being granted bail. In 2005 the country's Court of Appeal acquitted Mr Quill of the charges saying there was no evidence against him.

However this week the case went to the Supreme Court who rejected the acquittal and sentenced him to six years' imprisonment.

Scource: Telegraph and Argus (British local paper)

How can anyone have any confidence in the Thai judicial system when you see this kind of thing happening. He had every chance not to return from the UK to Thailand when he was acquitted, but believed in the Thai system and he was sadly let down badly.

Cheers, Rick

Hi Rick. Thanks for the advice. It's a shitty situation we have cause on one hand this is, for better or worse our home now. Burnt all my bridges so to speak at home. I too am worried about Thai justice, but what to do? If I stay we run the risk of going down, but on the other hand, if we get out of dodge, I will be breaking the law as well. The prosecutor has appealled our case and I am not allowed to leave the country without permission from the court. I don't have Taksin Shinawatts clout and I doubt that the court would give us permission to leave. Oh dear. Mitch.

Firstly, "Congratulations" on yours and your wife's release after serving 22 months in a Thai jail! I can only imagine how horrendous it must have been inside. (I hear enough about the poor conditions in Bangkok Remand Prison and Klong Prem Prison in Bangkok).

I can't believe that it took 22 months for your case to come to court - the wheels of justice turn so slowly in Thailand. From what you have written above, it seems that your nightmare is far from over. Despite being acquitted, the State Prosecutor is appealing the verdict??? Have I understood correctly? Therefore you are not supposed to leave the country without prior approval from the Court. right?

How long will it take to reach the Supreme Court (Dika Court)? It could be anything from 6 months to 18 months to 2 years right? So in the meantime, your life remains in limbo. Has you lawyer advised you of the timeline? I still find it very hard to understand why - after all you and your wife have been through - why on earth do you want to stay in a country such as this which as treated you like this??

I think you should now be weighing up the possible outcomes if this is going forward to the Dika Court:-

1) You are succesful, win your case and you are declared a free man.

2) You are unsuccessful - what is the minimum and maximum sentence? (Remember that the original sentence handed down by the initial court can also be increased at this point if I understand correctly).

Perhaps something to consider... try and get a sounding via your Lawyer/another Lawyer as to the likelihood of you obtaining compassionate leave for you and your wife to leave the coutry to get medical treatment or visit your or her "sick" mother in NZ/UK and then it is up to you if you return or don't return for the Supreme Court Trial.....

Although you should be aware that the Supreme Court hearing will not be run like it is in the West. In Thailand, your Lawyer and the State Prosecutor will submit all their papers and arguments in advance (I think you have 1 month from when the State Prosecutor files an appeal for you to submit all papers). Then, on the date of the Supreme Court hearing, the verdict which has already been decided, is just read out. So you will not have a chance to speak up at all at the hearing.

I am not sure what happens in the event the defendant is "absent"?????????? i.e. if you and your wife ARE granted leave to exit the country but then YOU decide NOT to return here for the Supreme Court trial. Perhaps you forfeit the case? (Something to find out from your Lawyer or call up the British Embassy for advice).

Depending upon what decision you make, you and your wife can sell your house etc and start again in another country. Or return to a country with a PROPER police force!@

I think you need to now be finding out LOTS of information in terms of dealing with a best case and worst case scenario and the odds. If you have family financial support, you may want to consider engaging another lawyer who specialises in Supreme Court cases and sound them out on your likely verdict.... It pays to be wise in advance as many can tell you from bitter experience.

I would also strongly advise you to get either the British or NZ Embassies on side. What a difference if they can submit a document of support on your behalf and/or attend the Supreme Court Hearing.....

All I would also say is Thailand is just one country, you and your wife have already seen 22 months inside a Thai jail. This will no doubt have left some terrible scars and aged you in ways that many Posters cannot even begin to comprehend. Ask yourself are you really prepared if the verdict does go against you. And I am sorry to say that I would not equate levels of justice at the Supreme Court here with the Supreme Courts in Western countries.

Furthermore, IMO which I may be wrong and apologies if I sound negative here but as a consequence of the above, your name will ALWAYS be flagged in this country. Can you live with the unknown bust and arrest at 2am as you have previously been picked out by the Thai Police? (Those bastions of honour and justice ).

Once again apologies if I seem overly negative, I am just trying to be realistic.

The Very Best of luck and health to you and your wife.

Andiamo

Thank you for your post. Appreciate the advice. All that you say is quite correct. BUT...my wife is Thai, the good people who put their land up to get us out on bail would lose it, if I don't appear in court (over 3 mill which is very low for a case this big, which all the more shows how confident the judges are in our innocence in this case), and the complete lack of evidence with the police. They cant bring in new evidence by law even if there was any. Finally the judges comments during the trial are all down on paper. If you had been there you would have seen what they thought of the police in our case. Yes it will still take a long time for this to go to court - ave about 2 years. Unlikely the prosecutor would appeal again when he loses this one as it is only standard form to appeal a big case like this in any case. Cheers for your help, but will stick around. Their memory span is not that great and they have many other and bigger cases to chase. Mitch. PS: The NZ embassy were with us at court every day and saw that we had things pretty much in control. They said it was very exciting watching the action eg. police and prosecution screaming at each other, police getting shit on their faces with every bit of so called evidence going down in flames! It was quite a show and I am lucky I speak good Thai and could understand 80% of what went down. Mitch.

[hagler]

Despite all this, I love Thailand. It is my home.

you seem to be a brave man Ian. i will submit your case to the Klingon High Council with the recommendation to award you with honorary Klingon citizenship.

congratulations on the outcome and joke aside. if something like this would have happened to me and my wife we'd take the next available flight out of Thailand.

If i was Ian i would be doing the same as soon as possible. Look at the case of Kevin Quill he was acquitted by the courts and then the supreme court overturned this ruling.

See below.

Kevin Quill, 45, former owner of the Fighting Cock pub, was arrested and convicted in 2001 on drug charges, which he has strenuously denied.

He served six months in a Thai jail before being granted bail. In 2005 the country's Court of Appeal acquitted Mr Quill of the charges saying there was no evidence against him.

However this week the case went to the Supreme Court who rejected the acquittal and sentenced him to six years' imprisonment.

Scource: Telegraph and Argus (British local paper)

How can anyone have any confidence in the Thai judicial system when you see this kind of thing happening. He had every chance not to return from the UK to Thailand when he was acquitted, but believed in the Thai system and he was sadly let down badly.

Cheers, Rick

Hi Rick. Thanks for the advice. It's a shitty situation we have cause on one hand this is, for better or worse our home now. Burnt all my bridges so to speak at home. I too am worried about Thai justice, but what to do? If I stay we run the risk of going down, but on the other hand, if we get out of dodge, I will be breaking the law as well. The prosecutor has appealled our case and I am not allowed to leave the country without permission from the court. I don't have Taksin Shinawatts clout and I doubt that the court would give us permission to leave. Oh dear. Mitch.

Firstly, "Congratulations" on yours and your wife's release after serving 22 months in a Thai jail! I can only imagine how horrendous it must have been inside. (I hear enough about the poor conditions in Bangkok Remand Prison and Klong Prem Prison in Bangkok).

I can't believe that it took 22 months for your case to come to court - the wheels of justice turn so slowly in Thailand. From what you have written above, it seems that your nightmare is far from over. Despite being acquitted, the State Prosecutor is appealing the verdict??? Have I understood correctly? Therefore you are not supposed to leave the country without prior approval from the Court. right?

How long will it take to reach the Supreme Court (Dika Court)? It could be anything from 6 months to 18 months to 2 years right? So in the meantime, your life remains in limbo. Has you lawyer advised you of the timeline? I still find it very hard to understand why - after all you and your wife have been through - why on earth do you want to stay in a country such as this which as treated you like this??

I think you should now be weighing up the possible outcomes if this is going forward to the Dika Court:-

1) You are succesful, win your case and you are declared a free man.

2) You are unsuccessful - what is the minimum and maximum sentence? (Remember that the original sentence handed down by the initial court can also be increased at this point if I understand correctly).

Perhaps something to consider... try and get a sounding via your Lawyer/another Lawyer as to the likelihood of you obtaining compassionate leave for you and your wife to leave the coutry to get medical treatment or visit your or her "sick" mother in NZ/UK and then it is up to you if you return or don't return for the Supreme Court Trial.....

Although you should be aware that the Supreme Court hearing will not be run like it is in the West. In Thailand, your Lawyer and the State Prosecutor will submit all their papers and arguments in advance (I think you have 1 month from when the State Prosecutor files an appeal for you to submit all papers). Then, on the date of the Supreme Court hearing, the verdict which has already been decided, is just read out. So you will not have a chance to speak up at all at the hearing.

I am not sure what happens in the event the defendant is "absent"?????????? i.e. if you and your wife ARE granted leave to exit the country but then YOU decide NOT to return here for the Supreme Court trial. Perhaps you forfeit the case? (Something to find out from your Lawyer or call up the British Embassy for advice).

Depending upon what decision you make, you and your wife can sell your house etc and start again in another country. Or return to a country with a PROPER police force!@

I think you need to now be finding out LOTS of information in terms of dealing with a best case and worst case scenario and the odds. If you have family financial support, you may want to consider engaging another lawyer who specialises in Supreme Court cases and sound them out on your likely verdict.... It pays to be wise in advance as many can tell you from bitter experience.

I would also strongly advise you to get either the British or NZ Embassies on side. What a difference if they can submit a document of support on your behalf and/or attend the Supreme Court Hearing.....

All I would also say is Thailand is just one country, you and your wife have already seen 22 months inside a Thai jail. This will no doubt have left some terrible scars and aged you in ways that many Posters cannot even begin to comprehend. Ask yourself are you really prepared if the verdict does go against you. And I am sorry to say that I would not equate levels of justice at the Supreme Court here with the Supreme Courts in Western countries.

Furthermore, IMO which I may be wrong and apologies if I sound negative here but as a consequence of the above, your name will ALWAYS be flagged in this country. Can you live with the unknown bust and arrest at 2am as you have previously been picked out by the Thai Police? (Those bastions of honour and justice ).

Once again apologies if I seem overly negative, I am just trying to be realistic.

The Very Best of luck and health to you and your wife.

Andiamo

Thank you for your post. Appreciate the advice. All that you say is quite correct. BUT...my wife is Thai, the good people who put their land up to get us out on bail would lose it, if I don't appear in court (over 3 mill which is very low for a case this big, which all the more shows how confident the judges are in our innocence in this case), and the complete lack of evidence with the police. They cant bring in new evidence by law even if there was any. Finally the judges comments during the trial are all down on paper. If you had been there you would have seen what they thought of the police in our case. Yes it will still take a long time for this to go to court - ave about 2 years. Unlikely the prosecutor would appeal again when he loses this one as it is only standard form to appeal a big case like this in any case. Cheers for your help, but will stick around. Their memory span is not that great and they have many other and bigger cases to chase. Mitch. PS: The NZ embassy were with us at court every day and saw that we had things pretty much in control. They said it was very exciting watching the action eg. police and prosecution screaming at each other, police getting shit on their faces with every bit of so called evidence going down in flames! It was quite a show and I am lucky I speak good Thai and could understand 80% of what went down. Mitch.

huh? Didnt you say in another of your posts that you had a house just outside of BKK that is worth 9 million baht? Surely the court would have had you put that up as surety ?

Edited May 13, 2008 by hagler

[JohnPeel]

Hello members. My name is Ian Newton. My wife and I are free!!!. We were in prison for 22 months. I won't even begin to describe the conditions there. This website ran an article on me and my wife, when we got busted in Phuket for heroin in October 2005 on our yacht. First off my name really is Ian Newton. No false passport as averred by the police. I was born in the UK but grew up in New Zealand. We had nothing to do with the drug bust. There were no drugs found on us or our property. We are totally innocent as we proved in court!! The Judge said that there were no grounds for the arrest and imprisonment of us by the police. There was no evidence at all, linking us to the crime during the 4 months surveillance by the police, nor in the following 24 months that it took to hear our case and be set free. Not that the police didn't try! It is not easy to win a case like this in Thailand. If any of you want the full story, please let me know and I will send it. I do note that one of our members did have his doubts. He was right about the hearsay but wrong about the passport. Cheers people. Ian Newton.

Be cool here. You will receive all sorts of advice, some good. But first forget completely about the Thai newspapers.

Your case was reported incorrectly as usual because the Thai journalists prints what the police say. If they dont they would cease to function on their local patch. The 'farang' newspapers here are no better.

If you want to go for high profile you will need to select a news organisation in your home country. UK? New Zealand?

With the latter there are less rewards and the news organisations wont pay vast amounts of money I guess - unless a TV operation can actually do a sting.

The main question I pose myself is why? It appears you were put on a watch list probably by the DEA, who if I'm guessing correctly,probably initiated this otherwise they wd not have been invited along.

If you believe it is just Thais who came across you because you were in the same hotels in Bangkok and Phuket then I guess the DEA would have wanted to sit in on any interviews conducted with you and your wife. Did they?

From my experience the DEA (who may have even supplied the heroin as part of a sting) do try and make an attempt at intelligence gathering after an arrest. Did you co-operate or refuse to say anything? I would have screamed my innocence from the rooftops!!

DEA suggests HK Chinese sending to USA of course. Its not unusual for H to go from BKK to Phuket (and now Krabi) before going international.

Have the police come up with a list of items seized and why did not the marina protect the yacht?

That fact that you were robbed of your possessions is usual in Thailand in cases like this (sad to say). They assume u ur not coming out.

The prosecutor's main reason for appealing (and this will take four years) may of course be to prevent you from sueing. If you lose the appeal you then go to Supreme Court - another four years. This invariably happens, especially in farang cases.

You might be able to get permission from the court to go home. Discuss this with your lawyer. This is probably what everyone wants and you can tell your story in safety. Did you get the trial transcripts or at least the judgment translated into English

After from the silly incident involving the laced ganja can you show a clean previous record?

I know this is not necessarily relevant to this offence but it may be relevant to a news organisation who will 100 per cent need to present a sympathetic character. (Warren Fellowes in 'The Damage Done' was pretty much an amoral sleaze-bag).

Hope this helps - and if I can let me know.

Thanks for your interest and advice. The DEA were in this at the first (found that out from one of my HK case partners) as they had picked up a tip that there was a big drug thing going down here. The two HK guys (who were just boys as you said) were followed from HK all the way here. They got me out of a video surveilance camera at a hotel in Bangkok. They ran me through their computer and saw that I had a prior. They then followed us until the time we were arrested. They did not interview me after Phuket. They, the Taiwan drug police and the HK drug police did a lot of interviews of the two HK guys at the police head quarters here in Bangkok. I am telling you that they knew dam well that my wife and I had nothing to do with this. But I had a prior right, so I'm scum anyway and must deserve going away even if i'm not connected to this particular bust. They were way over the top man. No one seems to know where the H came from. The two guys picked it up from an apartment here in Bangkok.

As for my earlier record, I've been done for grass a few times but nothing here ever. Been straight up here nothing to hide. As to going back to the UK or NZ, I have nothing at either of those places and thanks to this my name is shit now any way. You should know, once you're on the news you're guilty right? Just my step mum in NZ and my folks in the UK kicked me out of there and sent me to live with rllies in NZ when I was 3 years old. This is where i'm at and We have a beautiful place just outside Bangkok (puttamonton sai2) that is all ours free of debt. It's worth around 9 mill according to the land department. Spent many hours doing it up myself. What I cant get my head around is my yacht. What do I do about that? It needs anti fouling real bad or the worm will get in. Then there is the damage that the police did to it when they crashed another boat into it. We dont have the $ to fix it and it does need a fair amount of maintenance or it will sink soon. When I asked the police about it they told me it my problem. They dont care if it sinks!! So sue them they say. I have a lot of my court papers translated into english but not all. Could get the rest done but cant afford it. Man what a mess. If you can see an angle that I cant that would help us out, I would love you to tell me. Nothing to stop me chartering the yacht, but I need doe to get it sea worthy. We are also concerned that the police may try to leave a little present on board. Have friends looking after now but who knows?? Owe the marina a fortune in mooring fees, but the manager trusts me to pay it eventually. Cheers. Mitch Newton.

Many thanks for that: Now playing devil's advocate a little bit. According to cuttings New Zealand police were also involved in this as well as the DEA.

Now that you mention that you have other offences for ganga (moving it?) if I were them and your name came up in connection with a triad gang I would assume you had moved to the heavy stuff. Its not a big leap.

(Yes I know ganga dealers say they dont touch smack but that is an assertion which time after time has proved wrong. There was a time when ganga was getting higher prices btw in Japan for example)

The fact that you have a house and yacht obviously begs the question in what trade were you involved to get the cash to make those purposes.)

In terms of the trial Thai police will fit up evidence anyway. They cant help themselves. And they like to have lots of photos.I have seen them do this at first hand even when the defendant has pleaded guilty.

But you do seem to agree that Thai police took hundreds of pictures of you under surveillance over two months, which does seem to suggest that even before the HK boys arrived, you were a suspect in the SAME operation.

Another point of view might be that this was an arrest that the Thai police screwed up but the DEA et all did not want to let you get away. My sincere apologies for posing this theory. I am sure there are appropriate answers.

Don't be sorry. It's good to have some one looking at all angles, as can often pic up things that would otherwise be missed. Appreciate your frankness. The two HK guys were here over a month before we came under the spotlight. The house and yacht were both legally paid for, as we proved to the police early in the interrogation at Phuket. The point being that initially, yes they had to check us out. I do graphics for advertising and video games (or I did until I went to prison!! Out of it too long and too old anyway now). The NZ (embassy)police were called in by me from the embassy here in BKK. I knew the head man here then. A pretty straight shooter. Believe me, his advice and help were invaluable. His opinion of the DEA is not what I would call high either. For my past offences I was never involved in dealling or selling. Got rapped on the knuckles for growin my own once though. Cost me 500$NZ!! No, it just doesn't pan out. The surveilance on us was as a result of me being in a hotel that the two HK guys visited. My history gave them a reason to check us out, but not to put us away for over 2 years to trial. The house and yacht would have been childs play for them to check out, as would have been my business. The surveilance would have only have shown them even more that we were innocent. I am sure that the DEA had the first "heads up" on this case in Hong Kong and followed it through to Phuket. If they were so sure the heroin was going to us, why didn't they wait for it to be delivered to me or for me to pick it up instead of arresting those guys at their hotel?? I mean any one could have seen that we were going no where. My 70 year old mum was with us on the boat when we were arrested. She was lucky not to end up with us in prison. As I say, it just doesn't add up. Mitch.

Ok thats fine. Mum still alive? Where? She may be the way in to this.

[GungaDin]

Quote Hagler: Didn't you say in another of your posts that you had a house just outside of BKK that is worth 9 million baht?

Surely the court would have had you put that up as surety ?

=====

That crossed my mind too!

3 million Bt to avoid another possible injustice?

Cheap, pay it & go.

Who has your passport?

Edited May 13, 2008 by GungaDin

[newtronbom]

Despite all this, I love Thailand. It is my home.

you seem to be a brave man Ian. i will submit your case to the Klingon High Council with the recommendation to award you with honorary Klingon citizenship.

congratulations on the outcome and joke aside. if something like this would have happened to me and my wife we'd take the next available flight out of Thailand.

If i was Ian i would be doing the same as soon as possible. Look at the case of Kevin Quill he was acquitted by the courts and then the supreme court overturned this ruling.

See below.

Kevin Quill, 45, former owner of the Fighting Cock pub, was arrested and convicted in 2001 on drug charges, which he has strenuously denied.

He served six months in a Thai jail before being granted bail. In 2005 the country's Court of Appeal acquitted Mr Quill of the charges saying there was no evidence against him.

However this week the case went to the Supreme Court who rejected the acquittal and sentenced him to six years' imprisonment.

Scource: Telegraph and Argus (British local paper)

How can anyone have any confidence in the Thai judicial system when you see this kind of thing happening. He had every chance not to return from the UK to Thailand when he was acquitted, but believed in the Thai system and he was sadly let down badly.

Cheers, Rick

Hi Rick. Thanks for the advice. It's a shitty situation we have cause on one hand this is, for better or worse our home now. Burnt all my bridges so to speak at home. I too am worried about Thai justice, but what to do? If I stay we run the risk of going down, but on the other hand, if we get out of dodge, I will be breaking the law as well. The prosecutor has appealled our case and I am not allowed to leave the country without permission from the court. I don't have Taksin Shinawatts clout and I doubt that the court would give us permission to leave. Oh dear. Mitch.

Firstly, "Congratulations" on yours and your wife's release after serving 22 months in a Thai jail! I can only imagine how horrendous it must have been inside. (I hear enough about the poor conditions in Bangkok Remand Prison and Klong Prem Prison in Bangkok).

I can't believe that it took 22 months for your case to come to court - the wheels of justice turn so slowly in Thailand. From what you have written above, it seems that your nightmare is far from over. Despite being acquitted, the State Prosecutor is appealing the verdict??? Have I understood correctly? Therefore you are not supposed to leave the country without prior approval from the Court. right?

How long will it take to reach the Supreme Court (Dika Court)? It could be anything from 6 months to 18 months to 2 years right? So in the meantime, your life remains in limbo. Has you lawyer advised you of the timeline? I still find it very hard to understand why - after all you and your wife have been through - why on earth do you want to stay in a country such as this which as treated you like this??

I think you should now be weighing up the possible outcomes if this is going forward to the Dika Court:-

1) You are succesful, win your case and you are declared a free man.

2) You are unsuccessful - what is the minimum and maximum sentence? (Remember that the original sentence handed down by the initial court can also be increased at this point if I understand correctly).

Perhaps something to consider... try and get a sounding via your Lawyer/another Lawyer as to the likelihood of you obtaining compassionate leave for you and your wife to leave the coutry to get medical treatment or visit your or her "sick" mother in NZ/UK and then it is up to you if you return or don't return for the Supreme Court Trial.....

Although you should be aware that the Supreme Court hearing will not be run like it is in the West. In Thailand, your Lawyer and the State Prosecutor will submit all their papers and arguments in advance (I think you have 1 month from when the State Prosecutor files an appeal for you to submit all papers). Then, on the date of the Supreme Court hearing, the verdict which has already been decided, is just read out. So you will not have a chance to speak up at all at the hearing.

I am not sure what happens in the event the defendant is "absent"?????????? i.e. if you and your wife ARE granted leave to exit the country but then YOU decide NOT to return here for the Supreme Court trial. Perhaps you forfeit the case? (Something to find out from your Lawyer or call up the British Embassy for advice).

Depending upon what decision you make, you and your wife can sell your house etc and start again in another country. Or return to a country with a PROPER police force!@

I think you need to now be finding out LOTS of information in terms of dealing with a best case and worst case scenario and the odds. If you have family financial support, you may want to consider engaging another lawyer who specialises in Supreme Court cases and sound them out on your likely verdict.... It pays to be wise in advance as many can tell you from bitter experience.

I would also strongly advise you to get either the British or NZ Embassies on side. What a difference if they can submit a document of support on your behalf and/or attend the Supreme Court Hearing.....

All I would also say is Thailand is just one country, you and your wife have already seen 22 months inside a Thai jail. This will no doubt have left some terrible scars and aged you in ways that many Posters cannot even begin to comprehend. Ask yourself are you really prepared if the verdict does go against you. And I am sorry to say that I would not equate levels of justice at the Supreme Court here with the Supreme Courts in Western countries.

Furthermore, IMO which I may be wrong and apologies if I sound negative here but as a consequence of the above, your name will ALWAYS be flagged in this country. Can you live with the unknown bust and arrest at 2am as you have previously been picked out by the Thai Police? (Those bastions of honour and justice ).

Once again apologies if I seem overly negative, I am just trying to be realistic.

The Very Best of luck and health to you and your wife.

Andiamo

Thank you for your post. Appreciate the advice. All that you say is quite correct. BUT...my wife is Thai, the good people who put their land up to get us out on bail would lose it, if I don't appear in court (over 3 mill which is very low for a case this big, which all the more shows how confident the judges are in our innocence in this case), and the complete lack of evidence with the police. They cant bring in new evidence by law even if there was any. Finally the judges comments during the trial are all down on paper. If you had been there you would have seen what they thought of the police in our case. Yes it will still take a long time for this to go to court - ave about 2 years. Unlikely the prosecutor would appeal again when he loses this one as it is only standard form to appeal a big case like this in any case. Cheers for your help, but will stick around. Their memory span is not that great and they have many other and bigger cases to chase. Mitch. PS: The NZ embassy were with us at court every day and saw that we had things pretty much in control. They said it was very exciting watching the action eg. police and prosecution screaming at each other, police getting shit on their faces with every bit of so called evidence going down in flames! It was quite a show and I am lucky I speak good Thai and could understand 80% of what went down. Mitch.

huh? Didnt you say in another of your posts that you had a house just outside of BKK that is worth 9 million baht? Surely the court would have had you put that up as surety ?

Hi. Sorry to get back so late but i've been out. The court would have let us put the house up as security, however we were both in prison, and had no way to arrange that and the police ran us in circles for over 3 months when we did get out, before telling us that they had lost our land ownership papers!! We would call them and make a time to go in and pick the papers up, take a cab into town at around 270 baht there and the same back, only to arrive and be told that so and so was out and would we please come back another day! We had hardly any money and were beginning to think we would never get them back. I think we finally just wore them out. We have only just got them back after having to report them "LOST". We have been out near 6 months now. So if we had had to rely on our house papers to get out, we would still be in paradise prison!! This is just a small example of the many problems we have had in dealing with the police. They do not take kindly to loosing. Mitch