School Wont Pay Salary

[Aussie yoyo]

I have a contract, a work permit and work visa. The school, xxxxxx in Nakon province is not giving me my last 2 salary payments. The director of the school wont give me a reason. Does anyone know if I can do anything?

[mopenyang]

How about a visit to your friendly Labour Ministry office to discuss the matter?

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, as mopenyang says, visit your nearest provincial Labour Ministry Office with a friendly Thai, contract in hand. Wai, smile, and give them 'ell.

Of course, as Davy Crockett and my senior master sergeant both said, "Be sure you're right, and then go ahead."

[Ijustwannateach]

Yes, it sounds very clear-cut. They can't stop paying you unless you've been fired, and they can't officially fire you without following certain minimal procedures (verbal warning, letter of warning, etc.) and having certain minimal reasons (failure to attend office without sufficient excuse, failure to comply with contract, criminal behaviour, etc.) (and if their decision doesn't match these reasons then you have been "terminated without cause" and are STILL eligible for the salary during the period for which they had not yet notified you that you were terminated, plus some severance). With a contract and a work permit you're a shoe-in.

"S"

[Scott]

Please keep us informed about what happens and what you find out. I occasionally hear about horror stories like yours, but rarely do we get it directly from the person affected. Usually it comes from someone who knows someone who didn't get paid....

[Aussie yoyo]

I have seen a lawyer. He has written a letter to the school explaining that if they dont pay up next week it will go to court. Havent heard anything yet. I wasnt fired i finished the whole year. It was the last 1.5 months (April and May) of my contract that they refuse to pay. They probaby believe because it was holidays they shouldn't have to. If successful, I pay the lawyer a 10% fee of my wages, if not then i have no leagle fee to pay. May the foce be with me. wish me luck, I'll keep you posted.

[Loaded]

I have seen a lawyer. He has written a letter to the school explaining that if they dont pay up next week it will go to court. Havent heard anything yet. I wasnt fired i finished the whole year. It was the last 1.5 months (April and May) of my contract that they refuse to pay. They probaby believe because it was holidays they shouldn't have to. If successful, I pay the lawyer a 10% fee of my wages, if not then i have no leagle fee to pay. May the foce be with me. wish me luck, I'll keep you posted.

Labour court is free

[mucker]

90% of something is better than 0% of eff all. Good luck

[Aussie yoyo]

In new news;

The school is saying that i was ment to do summer school lessons. There was no summer school lessons. I was not informed of any such thing. The school claims that they tried to contact me and i didn't answer my phone. There is no record of them ever calling me on my phone. I still don't know yet if this drama will go to court. Thats all for now. happy teaching everyone.

[mopenyang]

In new news;

The school is saying that i was ment to do summer school lessons. There was no summer school lessons. I was not informed of any such thing. The school claims that they tried to contact me and i didn't answer my phone. There is no record of them ever calling me on my phone. I still don't know yet if this drama will go to court. Thats all for now. happy teaching everyone.

Does your contract specify that you are required to keep your phone on 24/7 and answer all calls 24/7? If not, I would say the school is skating on very thin ice and what they meant to have you do and what is required by your contract may be two very different things.

Good luck and don't forget to try the Ministry of Labour route if you are not satisfied with any other resolution.

[Scott]

Your contract should state whether or not you had to do a summer session (or work). Some schools do require attendance by teachers even if there are no classes being held.

[cluezo]

March in there ...er, politely... state that you want to clear up any confusion but want to protect your rights, say you have notified the MOE, hired an attorney and reported it to your Embassy and intend to follow the matter through. I bet he changes his tune. Be firm but respectful. Good luck.

[Aussie yoyo]

Good news !! They are going to offer a settlement out of court. They have stated that they are working out how much to pay me. This means I will not get my full salary payment I am entilted to. The alternative is that if i take it to court and win, the school will be in a position to pay the amount over 7 years in small small incy wincy tiny wieenie payments. I dont know what they are going to offer me yet but i will let you know soon. Wish me luck!!

P.S. If students haven't done their homework, making them sing happy birthday to your motorbike as a punishment is hilarious.

[TerryLH]

"The alternative is that if i take it to court and win, the school will be in a position to pay the amount over 7 years in small small incy wincy tiny wieenie payments."

Who told you that? It doesn't sound right.

If that is coming from somewhere other than the school, perhaps you need a second opinion.

[Aussie yoyo]

Well this saga has come to an end. The out of cout settlement is not really that good at all. i will get less than half of the funds owed to me, 17000 baht and the lawyer fee is 3750 baht. Oh well it's better than nothing i spose. If i did take it to court it would take much more time to get a resolution and i more than likley will not be in this corrupt but free country for that long. As advised by my lawyer it could take 7 years to get the 37900 baht owed to me. A word of advise if a school is a being a bit shady. hold on to the exam results untill they pay up. Thats what i should have done. I left the school on good terms but money always seems to change things.

The bottom line is, having a work permit, contract and doing everything by the book means jack s%$! in this country.

Happy teaching everyone

[Loaded]

you stuck it out - good on ya

[toptuan]

...hold on to the exam results untill they pay up.

Excellent tactic. In Thailand when it comes to money, it's all about leverage, not ethics or contracts.

[colino]

They love a good old haggle ,

[way2muchcoffee]

The bottom line is, having a work permit, contract and doing everything by the book means jack s%$! in this country.

Had you bothered to go to the Ministry of Labor as people suggested you almost certainly would have received the full amount owed, and it wouldn't have taken 7 years. You are mistaken in your analysis of contracts meaning nothing. You simply failed to follow the advice given to you.

Edited June 19, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[way2muchcoffee]

...hold on to the exam results untill they pay up.

Excellent tactic. In Thailand when it comes to money, it's all about leverage, not ethics or contracts.

Wrong. The worst tactic imaginable. You threaten to harm a student in order to leverage the admin? Teachers are not in the business of harming students. In my opinion, any teacher who would knowingly or intentionally harm a student lacks the requisite ethics for the profession.

Edited June 19, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[TerryLH]

"...hold on to the exam results untill they pay up."

If you did that you'd probably have violated your contract and they can let you go for cause, not having to pay you anything.

I agree with way2muchcoffee. The Labor office could have helped you with this.

[PeaceBlondie]

Almost unanimously, the advice was to go to Labour Court. Let that be a lesson to....advisors and advisees, I guess.

Actually, withholding test results would do no harm to the students. Even a more or less noncorrupt Thai school, like my third employer, can get along fine without your version of test results. They alter and forge academic marks at will. I did not withhold my grades with malice, but the third school never even bothered to call me and ask about the marks. I let them keep about 6K of earned wages, too.

[way2muchcoffee]

Almost unanimously, the advice was to go to Labour Court. Let that be a lesson to....advisors and advisees, I guess.

Actually, withholding test results would do no harm to the students. Even a more or less noncorrupt Thai school, like my third employer, can get along fine without your version of test results. They alter and forge academic marks at will. I did not withhold my grades with malice, but the third school never even bothered to call me and ask about the marks. I let them keep about 6K of earned wages, too.

I've worked at 2 EP's who do not change grades. Withholding exam remarks would indeed harm students as they would not get the grade they deserve. Parents wouldn't have a reliable indication of the strengths and weaknesses of their children. They would not have the information to determine whether tutoring was necessary. This could in turn effect university admissions as students aren't getting the assistance they really need. Strong students could get a lower grade than deserved, which could harm their academic future. Weak students getting high grades could lead to university admissions staff concluding that grades from a particular school are meaningless, hence applicants from that school could have lower chances at admission. There are numerous ways students can be harmed by this action. Active participation by a teacher in this kind of thing is highly unethical. That's just my opinion.

[PeaceBlondie]

Almost unanimously, the advice was to go to Labour Court. Let that be a lesson to....advisors and advisees, I guess.

Actually, withholding test results would do no harm to the students. Even a more or less noncorrupt Thai school, like my third employer, can get along fine without your version of test results. They alter and forge academic marks at will. I did not withhold my grades with malice, but the third school never even bothered to call me and ask about the marks. I let them keep about 6K of earned wages, too.

I've worked at 2 EP's who do not change grades. Withholding exam remarks would indeed harm students as they would not get the grade they deserve. Parents wouldn't have a reliable indication of the strengths and weaknesses of their children. They would not have the information to determine whether tutoring was necessary. This could in turn effect university admissions as students aren't getting the assistance they really need. Strong students could get a lower grade than deserved, which could harm their academic future. Weak students getting high grades could lead to university admissions staff concluding that grades from a particular school are meaningless, hence applicants from that school could have lower chances at admission. There are numerous ways students can be harmed by this action. Active participation by a teacher in this kind of thing is highly unethical. That's just my opinion.

Your points are well taken, assuming we were talking about real schools that give real grades and do not alter them. Real schools where the teachers, students, families, administration, and future university admissions officers really care about what the student knows. I have not had the privilege of working at such a school. Nonetheless, even at a real and honest school, if the dog ate the homework or the grade records, the school would know what to do. The third school of mine never picked up the phone to ask me for the grades.

I am glad to hear that many of our farang teachers have found real schools, without having to work at true international schools. There is hope for Thailand, after all, maybe.

[Ijustwannateach]

I wouldn't withhold the student marks, if I were you. It makes you into the bad guy, and whether or not anything turns out well for you that's not the way you want to be remembered professionally (as people sympathetic to you *will* talk) and it may make it more difficult for you to be hired later (even if that's not the reason given).

The downside of the system is that it is true you may not receive relief immediately. The up side is that with labour law you usually will get the relief if you hold firm and file suit in a competent manner (and are in the right, of course).

"S"

[Tyke]

...hold on to the exam results untill they pay up.

Excellent tactic. In Thailand when it comes to money, it's all about leverage, not ethics or contracts.

Wrong. Teachers are not in the business of harming students. In my opinion, any teacher who would knowingly or intentionally harm a student lacks the requisite ethics for the profession.

What about teacher's strikes anywhere in the world - almost always involves withholding of grades to students.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

In new news;

The school is saying that i was ment to do summer school lessons. There was no summer school lessons. I was not informed of any such thing. The school claims that they tried to contact me and i didn't answer my phone. There is no record of them ever calling me on my phone. I still don't know yet if this drama will go to court. Thats all for now. happy teaching everyone.

were you teaching English ?

[Whitey]

Great advice given on this thread.

Why don't you post the name on http://forum.teflschoolreviews.com ???

[Tomkagai]

Well this saga has come to an end. The out of cout settlement is not really that good at all. i will get less than half of the funds owed to me, 17000 baht and the lawyer fee is 3750 baht. Oh well it's better than nothing i spose. If i did take it to court it would take much more time to get a resolution and i more than likley will not be in this corrupt but free country for that long. As advised by my lawyer it could take 7 years to get the 37900 baht owed to me. A word of advise if a school is a being a bit shady. hold on to the exam results untill they pay up. Thats what i should have done. I left the school on good terms but money always seems to change things.

The bottom line is, having a work permit, contract and doing everything by the book means jack s%$! in this country.

Happy teaching everyone

Rubbish...if you didnt have a WP you would have got nothing, and they could have very easily reported you as well just out of spite....

You should have gone to the department of labour, would have cost you nothing and you would have got everything owed to you based on their interpretation of what is due, not the schools....

Reading through these posts see someone advised you to do this......you profess to be a teacher so trust you have learned your lesson..??

[Aussie yoyo]

for the record i went to the labour office already!!!!! they were very nice. they even made me a cup of coffee

They said it was for the court to to decide. I had a top noch criminal lawyer. a criminal lawyer doesnt mess around and he aint the same as an artical clerk. normaly he is pretty expensive. As we all know it's all about who you know. I took the legal approch and this is the best dig i could have done. As for the bloke who belives that they dont change the grades in this country - mate you can blow it out your a**. I'll say it again. The bottom line is that a work permit and a contract means jack. The only way to not be ripped of is to have some kind of leverage.