Don't Go Near The Water!

[Capex]

Last Saturday my 2 year old daughter spent the morning playing with her friend in the playpool at my friend's house in Phuket town. That night she started to show signs of a very high temperature and had a rash all over her torso. I thought this may have been measles but also thought it surprising as she has had all her injections. The next day, her small friend was taken to hospital presenting with the identical symptoms, plus a sore throat (It appears he drank a lot of the water which my daughter did not). The diagnosis was an allergy to chemicals present in the water, mainly Chlorine! They both still have the rash but the temps have gone down. Further investigation amongst the locals indicates that the local water authority gives the pipes a "hot shot" of chemicals once per month. So - Beware if you have small children and I also think that there may be adverse effects to adults as well. TIT!

[Boater]

hmmm, so what about your toothbrush?, as i always use bottled water to clean my teeth, but use the tap water to clean the brush off!, if the water does that to your skin, what about your insides!

[Capex]

This thought did cross my mind. I don't have the local water supply connected even though it goes past my house. Still use the well and some industrial strength filters!

[LivinLOS]

I brush my teeth with tap water.. I figure those kind of exposures only harden your system to the various bugs.

Surely if there was a hot flush of chlorine you would smell it ?? I mean if a pool is just a little bit high (not going to cause skin reactions) it has a very strong odor.

[slackula]

Perhaps you shouldn't risk bleaching your precious little snowflake by tossing her into a pool of unknown liquids?

Hopefully she'll recover and grow up to become a more responsible parent.

[HDRIDER]

Perhaps you shouldn't risk bleaching your precious little snowflake by tossing her into a pool of unknown liquids?

Hopefully she'll recover and grow up to become a more responsible parent.

Hi

Are you for real??

How can people know whats in a pool? do you run around with a test kit, or you never use a pool? my god get a life!!

[LivinLOS]

Yeah like it too much of a stretch to assume that tap water is non toxic !!!

Tho personally I am inclined to think it was something else, something with the plastics of the pool, something fungal grown after storing a pool, other possible options.. I cant imagine that enough chlorine to cause burns would come out of a tap and not be detected. Even mildly high levels smells strong.

[geriatrickid]

There is a strong likelihood that the cause of the problem had nothing to do with the chlorination process. It is against public health policy to over chlorinate, i.e. shock a system without issuing a public warning. As slack or incompetent as some might wish to believe, such a practice at the very least would earn the wrath of the local Chief Medical Officer of the region.

It is more likely that what was present was a bacteria. I'd expect something from

pseudomonas. More specifically Pseudomonas aeruginosa. This little rod of misery is found everywhere, in the soil, on animals and on humans. This is the bacteria that closeses down public pools and infests too many hot tubs and whirlpools. Wherever the environment is damp and moist the bacteria thrives. These guys can live quite happily in a properly chlorinated pool, which is why they are so persistent.

The narrative suggests that the culprit is organic in nature (a beastie) and not inorganic (a chemical). Had it been a chemical contaminant, more than the torso would be showing signs. One would see the rash to show wherever there was contact with the water. As well, a 2 year old does not have an adult immune system and is still developing immunity which again suggests a beastie. Other people have observed that a heavy chlorination dosing would have caused a very noticeable odour.

If there had been "juiced" water, we'd also be seing alot of hospital admissions for chlorine poisoning and I am unaware of any such reports.

Only way to know is to culture a scraping to determine what it was.

[Capex]

There is a strong likelihood that the cause of the problem had nothing to do with the chlorination process. It is against public health policy to over chlorinate, i.e. shock a system without issuing a public warning. As slack or incompetent as some might wish to believe, such a practice at the very least would earn the wrath of the local Chief Medical Officer of the region.

It is more likely that what was present was a bacteria. I'd expect something from

pseudomonas. More specifically Pseudomonas aeruginosa. This little rod of misery is found everywhere, in the soil, on animals and on humans. This is the bacteria that closeses down public pools and infests too many hot tubs and whirlpools. Wherever the environment is damp and moist the bacteria thrives. These guys can live quite happily in a properly chlorinated pool, which is why they are so persistent.

The narrative suggests that the culprit is organic in nature (a beastie) and not inorganic (a chemical). Had it been a chemical contaminant, more than the torso would be showing signs. One would see the rash to show wherever there was contact with the water. As well, a 2 year old does not have an adult immune system and is still developing immunity which again suggests a beastie. Other people have observed that a heavy chlorination dosing would have caused a very noticeable odour.

If there had been "juiced" water, we'd also be seing alot of hospital admissions for chlorine poisoning and I am unaware of any such reports.

geriatrickid, Many thanks for the suggestion. I had used what limited medical knowledge I had from personal experience and could not find any further information from the internet. I will pursue this with the doctor.

Only way to know is to culture a scraping to determine what it was.

[Ping]

I brush my teeth with tap water.

Ditto. Never a problem. Also never had a problem with rice or vegetables cooked in tap water (though I use fresh water for tea/coffee/sauces, etc); I would be surprised if at least some of the restaurants don't use (unfiltered) tap water for rice cooking.

[Zpete]

Filtering water would not kill any bacterial organisms.

Boiling the water is the best way, kills any baddies.

Cooking, where food is boiled, like rice, almost any water will do, just make sure it IS boiling.

Ya still eat them tho they will not do any harm.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Zpete

[MustaphaMond]

I brush my teeth with tap water.. I figure those kind of exposures only harden your system to the various bugs.

Surely if there was a hot flush of chlorine you would smell it ?? I mean if a pool is just a little bit high (not going to cause skin reactions) it has a very strong odor.

Chlorine" smell" is actually bacteria dying and releasing the odor. YOu may not smell chlorine at all no matter how much is added. Incidentally not all e coli bacteria is deadly , only a certain strain .....

[LivinLOS]

I brush my teeth with tap water.. I figure those kind of exposures only harden your system to the various bugs.

Surely if there was a hot flush of chlorine you would smell it ?? I mean if a pool is just a little bit high (not going to cause skin reactions) it has a very strong odor.

Chlorine" smell" is actually bacteria dying and releasing the odor. YOu may not smell chlorine at all no matter how much is added. Incidentally not all e coli bacteria is deadly , only a certain strain .....

Really ?? thats odd..

Because when I take the lid off the bucket of dry chlorine it has an outragous smell.. The same one (but not gaggingly strong) thats much lighter from a pool.

[pgrin]

Chlorine" smell" is actually bacteria dying and releasing the odor. YOu may not smell chlorine at all no matter how much is added. False

Incidentally not all e coli bacteria is deadly , only a certain strain .....True E Coli is normal body flora in all humans.

[bergen]

I brush my teeth with tap water.. I figure those kind of exposures only harden your system to the various bugs.

Surely if there was a hot flush of chlorine you would smell it ?? I mean if a pool is just a little bit high (not going to cause skin reactions) it has a very strong odor.

Chlorine" smell" is actually bacteria dying and releasing the odor. YOu may not smell chlorine at all no matter how much is added. Incidentally not all e coli bacteria is deadly , only a certain strain .....

Really ?? thats odd..

Because when I take the lid off the bucket of dry chlorine it has an outragous smell.. The same one (but not gaggingly strong) thats much lighter from a pool.

Not only odd...........very odd ..........and yes chlorine smell!

[mrsouza]

Last Saturday my 2 year old daughter spent the morning playing with her friend in the playpool at my friend's house in Phuket town. That night she started to show signs of a very high temperature and had a rash all over her torso. I thought this may have been measles but also thought it surprising as she has had all her injections. The next day, her small friend was taken to hospital presenting with the identical symptoms, plus a sore throat (It appears he drank a lot of the water which my daughter did not). The diagnosis was an allergy to chemicals present in the water, mainly Chlorine! They both still have the rash but the temps have gone down. Further investigation amongst the locals indicates that the local water authority gives the pipes a "hot shot" of chemicals once per month. So - Beware if you have small children and I also think that there may be adverse effects to adults as well. TIT!

Capex,

The symptoms you describe sounds like your daughter has been exposed to an excess amount of TriChlo or Trichloro-cyanuric Acid. TriChlo is used to extend the efficiency of chlorine. TriChlo must only be used ONCE and never exceed 100 ppm. The only reason for adding more TriChlo is if the pool is drained, naturally.

The problem in Thailand is that some pool companies and pool cleaners here seem to use TriChlo acid instead of chlorine because its cheaper, or just add some more at each chlorine fill-up because they think it should be added. TriChlo poses a very high cancer hazard at levels above 100 ppm. This only from external contact, if someone digest TriChlo, as you mentioned your daughter's friend did, cancer in the abdominal area is unavoidable.

Before you panic, there are a few things you should do first, as this could just be an allergic reaction to the chlorine. Try to get a test kit for "Cyanuric Acid". I am not sure if these are sold in Phuket, but you can find them on internet such as here.

A friend of mine, who is an expert on water treatment, did a test of some pools in Phuket and several of them had way over 1,000 ppm. I would recommend anyone to get one of these testing kits and check for yourself before you throw yourself or your loved ones in a public or private pool in Phuket.

If anybody knows a shop that sell these test kits in Phuket, please post that information here.

If you find out that the pool in question is contaminated with TriChlo (higher than 100 ppm) let me know by a PM and I can suggest proper treatment for your daughter and her friend.

More information about TriChlo here.

For you other guys who cook your rice, food etc in tap water. Don't. The tap water in Phuket is only good for external use. Boiling it will NOT purify it as there are metals and other chemicals in the tap water here that does not disappear from boiling it.

[LivinLOS]

I assumed the OP was talking about a garden playpool.. Not a installed pool.

[mrsouza]

I assumed the OP was talking about a garden playpool.. Not a installed pool.

Correct, I missed that in the OP. However, I spoke to him over PM and in this case they used tap water for the playpool and she most probably just got a skin reaction due to the rust levels in the water. No harm done. But the problem with pool maintenance for installed pools remains around here.

[Bagwain]

Seems like there is quite a few backyard experts around.

I have been involved with over 1000 commercial/domestic swimming pools in Oz, NZ & now Thailand.

Testing the pool properly would give you an indication as to whether it was a chemical or organic cause.

Pool testing in Thailand is a joke. I won't swim in any pool in Thailand unless I am looking after it.

You would get more than a rash if it was Pseudomonas aeruginosa.

More than likely the pH was way out of wack and she has a reaction to the chlorine which would be out of balance!

Some assumptions have been made by a few posters about which chlorine is being used etc. All assumptions.

Using the 90% cholrine for long periods does lead to over concentration of Cynuric acid and when over 80ppm it doesn't work and can lock the chlorine. I suggest altering on a weekly bases with 70% which doesn't have cynuric acid but is based in calcium which is lacking in most Thai pools.

Better still change to salt chlorination.

This is what is tested in Oz in public pools on a regular bases.

Total Alkalinity, Calcium, pH, Free, Combined and Total Chlorine. (Chlorine reacts differently with skin types) Weekly bacterial counts are a must.

I have been told that the public water in Phuket is a disgrace. Water in Thailand has a very high Iron content and I would say in Phuket tin as well.

My bread and butter business is water filtration and trouble shooting of pools. Commercially I offer R.O Desalination, Oil Separation and product recovery.

May be the pool was just a blow up type and the water was new from the tap??