Totally Confused After Having Unprotected Sex In A Spa Place

[iconfused]

Last week, I went to a spa place ( not those bad ones) and had a massage from a girl of 28 years old.

I asked her if anything more was possible and she willingly agreed for sex with a small cost but i had no condom. This was my first time in several years outside marriage.

I did with her without condom just once (as she was giving me assurance that she was no problem and new). And, since that day i am mentally upset for the action i did.

I was so confused that I immediately in a few days went to a local hospital and did an Anti-HIV / Syphilis test and luckily tested negative. I will do the test again after 3 months, and hoping to be negative.

Now my 2nd confusion is what if she got pregnant? Do these girls take contraceptions with no fail?

Should I be doing anything more to find out to make sure she takes the pill. What are the chances that she gets pregnant?

I do not wish to do such activity ever again in my life after all this confusion and upset I have gone through.

The problem is there may be a high chance I will bump into this girl again and hoping to not see her pregnant or anything and I am screwed big time.

Please help to ease my confusion as I am mentally upset since that day onwards.

I have her my number but there is language barrier to communicate. She just understands basic english words.

Supportive post with clear guidance please.

[thaiclan]

Sounds like you learned your lesson, dont get caught out again, if you have money in your pocket you should have a condom! That said if it were to happen again there are more ways to ejaculate than the 1 that will result in pregnancy!...

Anyway the likely hood of this girl sabotaging her spa career to deliver your offspring (provided you dont start dating her!) are slim to none. Stay away from her. Its highly unlikely you are the first bare-back rider with her and if she were to fall pregnant the likely hood is it will be a multiple question answer as to who the father might be.

Learn your lesson and move on.

[iconfused]

Thank you for your quick response.

Yes I have learnt my lesson and taken oath to myself not to do this ever again and jeopardise my marriage. my wife is visiting home for a month.

The biggest concern for me is the spa place is just in a central level of my apartment building of a few towers. So, I don't want to have a huge shock after bumping into her after a few days or months.

I absolutely have NO plan to meet her or any other ever again in my life. This one thing will already haunt me for the rest of my life.

I understand about the multiple question answer about who the father might be, but yet it has me worried and i couldn't concentrate on anything at all.

First the HIV test, now the pregnancy thing and again after 3 months another hiv test. I am totally upset for my own actions and all sorts of questions are going through my mind.

Please guide me one more time and give some support.

Thanks.

[justcruisin]

. Its highly unlikely you are the first bare-back rider with her and if she were to fall pregnant the likely hood is it will be a multiple question answer as to who the father might be.

Learn your lesson and move on.

I think the risk of pregnancy is miniscule compared to the risk of HIV.

Never Never go unprotected for that reason.

The Thai goverment had a big "safe sex" promotion many years ago but that all seems forgotten to the younger ladies now.

[Carib]

Hey, you had a good time, you payed for it, and the chance of her being pregnant is null, do you think these ladies are stupid.

And if you bump into her..so what, you had a business thing, that is all.

[thaiclan]

As for the HIV risk, firstly it is decreased if you had normal vaginal intercourse especially if proceeded by foreplay (to her) or a lubricant was used. Secondlyas she is a sex worker lets say she has been working for 5 years. If she was infected with HIV anytime other than in the last 3-6 months then the chances are lowered considerably of her passing on the virus to you. This is because the viral load is much diminished after the first 3-6months of infection, so statistically if she DOES have the virus she would have had it a while and not be newly infected.

However its wise NOT to play those averages - keep beating the odds for the casino!

Sounds a bit like you are more worried about bumping into her again (and she MAY be pregnant), like the earlier post advises it really is just business.

However if you DO have HIV make sure you have protected sex with your wife or oral sex only until that 2nd HIV test.

[britmaveric]

Why would you shag a complete stranger without a condom?

[sgtpeppers]

I had a similar situation once but not with a service worker.

Go back to her with a pregnancy test kit, you will feel relieved after the test.

Get her to do a test for STDs at the clinic, offer her a big tip if she is reluctant.

[iconfused]

Why would you shag a complete stranger without a condom?

Well that was the most stupidest thing I ever did in my life.

In fact I have had such experience (without condom) twice with 2 different girs several years prior to my marriage.

After marriage it was just my wife until last week and I never did the HIV test earlier.

Only last week, after this stupidest mistake of my life... it had me worried... and i immediately ran for the HIV test to make sure if my wife and kid are on the good side. That 1 hour to wait for the result almost killed me. After the good confirmation that they are now safe, I am now worried for my own life for the test after 3 months and to top that the pregnancy thing was also confusing me.

thaiclan,

I did a vaginal intercourse with no foreplay and I had not even a chance to wash afterwards because there is no bathroom. But, once I reached upstairs in my home, I had a clean shower. I am circumcised. Hope that makes a difference for the bright side.

Thank you all of you for your supportive and quick response.

[iconfused]

I had a similar situation once but not with a service worker.

Go back to her with a pregnancy test kit, you will feel relieved after the test.

Get her to do a test for STDs at the clinic, offer her a big tip if she is reluctant.

I hope the problem will go away without I ever seeing her again. I do not want to keep me associated with this event as much as possible.

Hope I am making the right choice.

[thaiclan]

Yes actually that lowers your risk too being circumcised. The reason for this is the tip is tougher and less prone to sores and openings.

Stay away from her and dont foget the fear you are feeling right now - it will be useful for any future extra marital sex!

[Sheryl]

2 points:

1. Pregnancy: There are pills that can readily be bought at any pharmacy to be taken after sex in cases where contraception was not used ("morning after pills" -- common brand names Postinor and Madonna). Although it is recommended that they be taken within 72 hours of sex, recent research has shown that they still reduce the risk of pregnancy (altho not by as much) if taken within 2 weeks. So, if you think you can communicate all this to her and want to, it would be worth doing if as I gather it has only been a week. The catch of course being that you'd have to explain it all to her somehow and also she'd have to agree to take it.

These drugs are fairly safe if used on a one-time basis but absolutely should not be used as a regular means of birth control (forthe benefit of other readers).

2. HIV: there is an alternative to the 3 month wait if you don't mind paying for it. It's called a PCR test and can detect small quantities of the virus in the blood well before antibodies form. It'll cost yopu (rought guiess, maybe 15,000 -20,000 baht) but might well be worth it for the peace of mind.

Also, again for benefot of other readers, it is possible to substantially reduce the risk of HIV infection through what is called "Post Exposure Prophylaxis" (PEP), invovles taking abnti-retroviral drugs for about 6 weeks commencing as soon as possible after the exposure. Because of these drugs carry a high incidence of side effects (and can be very unpleasant as well as costly to take) not recommended in cases where the risk is probably small, but should be given consideratyion in cases where the risk is more considerable e.g. partner known to be HIV+ or very high suspicion of it. Some doctors have problems with the idea of prescribing it for people whose exposure was due to unsafe sex (it's most common use is to protect health professionals who suffered an accidental needle stick etc) but others are willing. In your particular case, given both the low level of risk and the time that has already elapsed, I wouldn't advise this, but it's a good thing for people to be aware of. PEP is also standard for rape victims in some places (not all, and there is ongoing debate on the pros and cons in cases where the rapist's HIV status is unknown and overall population prevalence not that high).

[Pushit]

2 points:

1. Pregnancy: There are pills that can readily be bought at any pharmacy to be taken after sex in cases where contraception was not used ("morning after pills" -- common brand names Postinor and Madonna). Although it is recommended that they be taken within 72 hours of sex, recent research has shown that they still reduce the risk of pregnancy (altho not by as much) if taken within 2 weeks. So, if you think you can communicate all this to her and want to, it would be worth doing if as I gather it has only been a week. The catch of course being that you'd have to explain it all to her somehow and also she'd have to agree to take it.

These drugs are fairly safe if used on a one-time basis but absolutely should not be used as a regular means of birth control (forthe benefit of other readers).

2. HIV: there is an alternative to the 3 month wait if you don't mind paying for it. It's called a PCR test and can detect small quantities of the virus in the blood well before antibodies form. It'll cost yopu (rought guiess, maybe 15,000 -20,000 baht) but might well be worth it for the peace of mind.

Also, again for benefot of other readers, it is possible to substantially reduce the risk of HIV infection through what is called "Post Exposure Prophylaxis" (PEP), invovles taking abnti-retroviral drugs for about 6 weeks commencing as soon as possible after the exposure. Because of these drugs carry a high incidence of side effects (and can be very unpleasant as well as costly to take) not recommended in cases where the risk is probably small, but should be given consideratyion in cases where the risk is more considerable e.g. partner known to be HIV+ or very high suspicion of it. Some doctors have problems with the idea of prescribing it for people whose exposure was due to unsafe sex (it's most common use is to protect health professionals who suffered an accidental needle stick etc) but others are willing. In your particular case, given both the low level of risk and the time that has already elapsed, I wouldn't advise this, but it's a good thing for people to be aware of. PEP is also standard for rape victims in some places (not all, and there is ongoing debate on the pros and cons in cases where the rapist's HIV status is unknown and overall population prevalence not that high).

Scary EH??

[kat]

VERY good to know, on all points. Thanks Sheryl.

[harleyclarkey]

2 points:

1. Pregnancy: There are pills that can readily be bought at any pharmacy to be taken after sex in cases where contraception was not used ("morning after pills" -- common brand names Postinor and Madonna). Although it is recommended that they be taken within 72 hours of sex, recent research has shown that they still reduce the risk of pregnancy (altho not by as much) if taken within 2 weeks. So, if you think you can communicate all this to her and want to, it would be worth doing if as I gather it has only been a week. The catch of course being that you'd have to explain it all to her somehow and also she'd have to agree to take it.

These drugs are fairly safe if used on a one-time basis but absolutely should not be used as a regular means of birth control (forthe benefit of other readers).

2. HIV: there is an alternative to the 3 month wait if you don't mind paying for it. It's called a PCR test and can detect small quantities of the virus in the blood well before antibodies form. It'll cost yopu (rought guiess, maybe 15,000 -20,000 baht) but might well be worth it for the peace of mind.

Also, again for benefot of other readers, it is possible to substantially reduce the risk of HIV infection through what is called "Post Exposure Prophylaxis" (PEP), invovles taking abnti-retroviral drugs for about 6 weeks commencing as soon as possible after the exposure. Because of these drugs carry a high incidence of side effects (and can be very unpleasant as well as costly to take) not recommended in cases where the risk is probably small, but should be given consideratyion in cases where the risk is more considerable e.g. partner known to be HIV+ or very high suspicion of it. Some doctors have problems with the idea of prescribing it for people whose exposure was due to unsafe sex (it's most common use is to protect health professionals who suffered an accidental needle stick etc) but others are willing. In your particular case, given both the low level of risk and the time that has already elapsed, I wouldn't advise this, but it's a good thing for people to be aware of. PEP is also standard for rape victims in some places (not all, and there is ongoing debate on the pros and cons in cases where the rapist's HIV status is unknown and overall population prevalence not that high).

Scary EH??

Good info!

There has been research regarding circumcised males and it suggests that the risk is reduced by 50%....see this link...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6176209.stm

There is also research which shows that despite unprotected sex 1 with the infected partner the other remains clear. This may be explained as another member pointed out that the virus is at it's most virulent at the begining and the end. It is not a particularily agresssive virus, thank God.

It was told to me by an expert in this field that he believes there has to be a "bridge" for the virus and this is usually in the form of another STD present. So if you have no other symptoms then this should be good news. I do NOT know if this is correct.

Other research suggests that a healthy fit male has a reduced risk, providing his immune system is normal and not depressed. Yet again does the lubricant help kill the virus...same as oxygen???

Health Warning!!! This does not give the green light for unprotected sex if you are a fit healthy circumcised male with a tube of KY-Gel!!

What I see above is lots of opinions which shows that we do not know the full extent of the virus despite years of research.

Good site to visit as well......http://www.ashastd.org/learn/learn_overview.cfm

Edited June 13, 2008 by harleyclarkey

[iconfused]

What I have concluded now based on all your posts is:

1) I will not attempt to reach her ever again and hopefully she sorts the contraception by herself.

2) As for me, I hope to recover from the situation in a few months down the line with the HIV test coming negative once again. I will post here again after the 2nd test is successful.

This has been a great lesson for me... and i hope who ever reads this learns from it and not commit the same mistake again ever.

If any of you guys has any reason to believe otherwise, plese let me know.

Thank you for all your support. It has been an emotional nightmare for me for the past one week already and still months to go.

[zzdocxx]

Yeah now try to take it easy a bit, OK?

[Crushdepth]

Just go get yourself tested for peace of mind and learn your lesson!

Why would you shag a complete stranger without a condom?

Maybe he is young and stupid like you use to be

[PhilHarries]

Just go get yourself tested for peace of mind and learn your lesson!

Why would you shag a complete stranger without a condom?

Maybe he is young and stupid like you use to be

It's very easy for the ThaiVisa holy Joe's to sit on their high horse looking down their nose at the rest of humanity as if we are some culture in a petri dish to be flushed down the drain.

To the OP, I have also done the same stupid thing on occasions and survived. Live your life, learn your lessons and move on older and wiser leaving regrets for your death bed.

[bruceboy]

Lot's of good information here.

[geriatrickid]

I was rather surprised to read an opinion and advice that is contrary to published guidance and studies. As the position is misleading and could prove dangerous for some people, I am obliged to reply in the interest of public safety.

As for the HIV risk, firstly it is decreased if you had normal vaginal intercourse especially if proceeded by foreplay (to her) or a lubricant was used.

This does not reduce the presence of HIV, nor does it significantly reduce the risk of infection. Urban myth. In fact the contrary is present in respect to some lubricants containing Nonoxynol-9 (N-9). This product is a detergent that was designed to act as a contraceptive-to kill sperm and to prevent pregnancy. Because it was effective against STI beasties in the lab, it was assumed that it would work against HIV. Human trials showed that N-9 when used frequently could actually increase the risk of HIV transmission. This is why it is not approved by the FDA and WHO in resepct to HIV prevention.

Secondlyas she is a sex worker lets say she has been working for 5 years. If she was infected with HIV anytime other than in the last 3-6 months then the chances are lowered considerably of her passing on the virus to you. This is because the viral load is much diminished after the first 3-6months of infection, so statistically if she DOES have the virus she would have had it a while and not be newly infected.

NO!!!!!!! Although HIV RNA usually spikes between Infection date +30 days and Infection date + 60 days there are exceptions. Once a person is infected with the virus, that person must be treated as an agent of infection. No, ifs, subjectivities or other conditions. That is the reality.

Most studies share the following view;

The association between blood viral load and genital HIV shedding is not guaranteed. These findings support the observation that the genital tract may be a separate reservoir for HIV-1 replication in some women. Although women receiving potent antiretroviral therapy were less likely to shed virus and had lower mean genital tract concentrations than untreated women, about a third of women with <500 copies/mL HIV-RNA in plasma still had detectable RNA or culturable virus in genital secretions.— Mary E. Wilson, MD Published in Journal Watch Infectious Diseases December 7, 2001

Fast forward a few years.

A caution was added from several recent studies that showed that while blood viral loads could be reduced to undetectable levels using some medications, it was however detectable in cervical and vaginal samples. For example,

"Shedding in this population was common," wrote the study team, "and NNRTI-based highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) (vs. PI-based HAART) was associated with genital HIV shedding. Further study is required to determine the impact of these findings on transmission of HIV from mother to child or to sexual partners."

Neely MN, Benning L, Xu J, et al. Cervical shedding of HIV-1 RNA among women with low levels of viremia while receiving highly active antiretroviral therapy. Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome 44(1):38-42, 2007.

The point being that even though some people might have success with medications, unprotected vaginal intercourse could still allow for infection.

However its wise NOT to play those averages - keep beating the odds for the casino!

Sounds a bit like you are more worried about bumping into her again (and she MAY be pregnant), like the earlier post advises it really is just business.

However if you DO have HIV make sure you have protected sex with your wife or oral sex only until that 2nd HIV test.

And what happens if he picked up HPV? Does the partner deserve that? He'll have to wait a couple months to see if he grows some warts. An STI / HIV test won't detect that. Besides, if the subject is relying on the quick or rapid tests for confidence, he's wasting his time. The standard protocol is still an ELISA test followed by a Western Blot. Yes, I'm old fashioned and haven't embraced the rapid tests which are 98% accurate in perfect conditions. They are more likely to have errors because the humans using them either don't follow instructions or screw them up.

/quote]

Ok, look it's not all doom and gloom. The chances that you contracted HIV from 1 vaginal entry are small. They will be further reduced if you did not contract an STI. If you are clean, you can relax. You won't be in the clear until the 3 and 6 month tests show negative, but you'll be able to breathe easier.

Edited June 14, 2008 by geriatrickid

[lopburi3]

This does not reduce the presence of HIV, nor does it significantly reduce the risk of infection. Urban myth.

I suspect the effect is much less chance of abrasions and thus less chance of transfer.

NO!!!!!!! Although HIV RNA usually spikes between Infection date +30 days and Infection date + 60 days there are exceptions.

But that provides the basis for the comment; as exceptions are not the norm.

[Sheryl]

Good info!

There has been research regarding circumcised males and it suggests that the risk is reduced by 50%....see this link...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6176209.stm

There is also research which shows that despite unprotected sex 1 with the infected partner the other remains clear. This may be explained as another member pointed out that the virus is at it's most virulent at the begining and the end. It is not a particularily agresssive virus, thank God.

It was told to me by an expert in this field that he believes there has to be a "bridge" for the virus and this is usually in the form of another STD present. So if you have no other symptoms then this should be good news. I do NOT know if this is correct.

Other research suggests that a healthy fit male has a reduced risk, providing his immune system is normal and not depressed. Yet again does the lubricant help kill the virus...same as oxygen???

The presence of another STD is not required for the virus to be transmitted, but it does greatly increase the odds of transmission because lesions can facilitate passage of the virus into the blood. Men should be aware that such lesions in women are often not visible e.g. they may be on the cervix, which you can't see.

Good lubrication probably does decrease the odds of transmission slightly by reducing incidence of small abrasions but this effect would be small are certainly not something you should count on.

AFAIK a person's overall health status will not affect the likelihood of contacting the virus, although it will effect the time lag between infection and illness in the absence of treatment. In the west, prior to the advent of ART, we saw very long intervals e.g. 8- 10 years on average and not infrequently 10-15 between initial infection anmd onset of AIDs. In underdeveloped countries we saw much shorter ones eswpecuially among the poor and undernourished. Also interval between illness and death is much shorter in populations with overall poorer health and more challenged immune systems.

Nowadays, of course, people with HIV who have access to proper health care need not progress to AIDs , thanks to advances in drug therapy, but that comes at the price of a lifetime regimen of expensive drugs with a high incidence of side effects, and there remains the possibility of eventual drug resistance down the road.

No matter how you look at it, this is not something you want to risk contacting, and rationalizing high risk sex (which unprotected sex with a person likely to have or have had multiple partners qualifies as, even if that person was not an outright sex worker) on grounds of low odds of tranmsision per encounter us basically playing russian roulette...only the person at the end of the gun barrel isn't just yourself but also your wife and possibly future children.

OP: sorry to add to your obvious anxiety but as some other posters have pointed out, HIV and pregnancy are not the only dangers here. Hepatitis B, which is tranmsmitted in the same manner as HIV but even more prevalent, and other STDs are also risks and in fact more probable to contact in 1 exposure.

If you get any STD or Hep B you may in turn pass it on to your wife.

In the case of HPV, if you transmit it to your wife, she is at higher risk of eventual cervical cancer.

You should also be checked for Hep B antigens unless you are immunized for it. I beleive it is possible to detect HPV prior to visible warts via blood tests although probably expensive and you'd have to request it. Other option, which you should be doing anyhow, is to use condoms with your wife.

What often happens in these cases is the man doesn't use condoms with his wife because he fears that she'll figure out what he has been up to. The consequences can be tragic.

OP, I really urge you to confess all to your wife (who has most likely already figured out that something is awry), apologize and explain that for her safety you will be using condoms until enough time has passed that you are sure you have not acquired any disease. Even if she gets mad initially she will understand that the fact that you told her and used condoms demonstrates a real concern for her welfare. whereas if down the road she develops Hep B or cervical cancer due to an indiscretion you concealed from her....well, I personally wouldn't find that forgivable.

[thaiclan]

As a researcher for UNAIDS I thoroughly recommend the book "the wisdom of whores, bureaucrats, brothels, and the business of AIDS" by Elizabeth Pisani.

It contains quite a shocking reality as to the myths and lies we have been told until now to generate more money for HIV prevention.

You will find the research behind much of the information given here.

[iconfused]

Thank you and well noted.

But, wearing condoms with my wife until I do the Hepatitis, HIV and syphilis test once again after 3-4 months is easier than confessing for now.

Is 3-4 months enough to really have the confidence of I being free from it after the tests above? any other test do you recommend apart from the 3? I do not wish to take any expensive tests for now but wait for a few months. How many? 4 months? for which tests?

Also, I have another question regarding the pregnancy thing. pardon my ignorance.

What if she forgot to take the contraceptive and eventually became pregnant. What choice does she have to get clear of the pregnancy? may be high Costs associated? may be it is too costly for her to do anything after the simple over the counter medicine. And, eventually my expecting the worst happens. Is it at all possible? or am i just being paranoid?

once again sorry for my ignorance as I have no clue of these things. I hope you guys have some supportive input on this.

[Mighty Mouse]

This was my first time in several years outside marriage.

You have read all the good advice from other posters regarding HIV and pregnancy, it is now confession time with the wife. Good luck.

[Shotime]

Thank you and well noted.

But, wearing condoms with my wife until I do the Hepatitis, HIV and syphilis test once again after 3-4 months is easier than confessing for now.

once again sorry for my ignorance as I have no clue of these things. I hope you guys have some supportive input on this.

What do you tell your wife when you put a condom on when you have sex with her? Have you always worn a condom with your wife? I wouldn't be overly concerned with the spa girl. She isn't as ignorant about these things as you appear to be, and, if I was, I'd be a little worried. I know these things happen. Does your wife have any idea what's going on?

[Shotime]

Thank you and well noted.

But, wearing condoms with my wife until I do the Hepatitis, HIV and syphilis test once again after 3-4 months is easier than confessing for now.

once again sorry for my ignorance as I have no clue of these things. I hope you guys have some supportive input on this.

Sorry for the double. It's early.

Edited June 15, 2008 by Shotime

[iconfused]

Thank you and well noted.

But, wearing condoms with my wife until I do the Hepatitis, HIV and syphilis test once again after 3-4 months is easier than confessing for now.

once again sorry for my ignorance as I have no clue of these things. I hope you guys have some supportive input on this.

What do you tell your wife when you put a condom on when you have sex with her? Have you always worn a condom with your wife? I wouldn't be overly concerned with the spa girl. She isn't as ignorant about these things as you appear to be, and, if I was, I'd be a little worried. I know these things happen. Does your wife have any idea what's going on?

Yes we have been always wearing a condom after our first child. only once or twice did without one. So, there is no reason for her to suspect for another 6 months at least where we will be using condom as contraception. and this time I just had to be more careful not to do without even once.

She has no idea what's going on... and she is away for a month from here.

[backflip]

What lesson did you learn? Infidelity is not OK? Unprotected sex in not OK?