Jatropha

[ray23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatropha_oil

Possible in Thailand?

Will it require special production plants?

Labor cost intensive?

[ozzydom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatropha_oil

Possible in Thailand?

Will it require special production plants?

Labor cost intensive?

Check this site for info on Jatropha in Thailand Ray.

pacbiofuel.blogspot.com/2007/ 03/thailand-jatropha-biofuels.html

[Khonwan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatropha_oil

Possible in Thailand?

Will it require special production plants?

Labor cost intensive?

Check this site for info on Jatropha in Thailand Ray.

pacbiofuel.blogspot.com/2007/ 03/thailand-jatropha-biofuels.html

Hi ozzydom

Your link returns a "cannot find content" report from Blogspot.

Rgds

Khonwan

[ozzydom]

OK mate,I thought it an interesting article in view of Rays post so I have c&p it

Thursday, March 29, 2007

Thailand Jatropha Biofuels

Source: http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=48874

LOEI: On a large tract of land in Thailand's dusty northeast, Suwit

Yotongyot hopes to make a fortune on jatropha, a plant with a poisonous

nut that might hold the key to the nation's energy troubles.

The flowering bush has long been used as live fencing in dry regions

around the world.

But it's the deadly black nuts that have caught the attention of

scientists who say that it could help produce bio-diesel and ease

Thailand's reliance on imported oil.

The nuts are more than 30 per cent oil, which burns with a clear flame,

producing a fraction of the emissions of traditional diesel. As a bonus,

the oil can be used in simple diesel engines without refining, just by

mixing it with fuel.

Suwit says the bushes are easy to grow, start producing nuts quickly,

and are resistant to drought — a key features in Thailand's arid

northeast where rains are often inadequate.

Now he's trying to convince local villagers to use jatropha oil as fuel

for their tractors as it is cheaper than normal diesel.

"It will help villagers reduce their costs when they're farming their

agricultural products," said Suwit, a former adviser to the agriculture

ministry.

Eventually, he hopes Thailand will follow India, Indonesia and the

Philippines in pursuing development of jatropha to turn the nut into a

viable fuel source.

Phichai Tinsuntisook, a businessman who heads the Renewable Energy

Industry Club, said jatropha was more promising as a fuel than palm oil,

which countries around the region are also investigating as an

alternative energy source.

"Jatropha oil can go directly into a tractor, while direct use of palm

oil will harm the engine," he said.

Residue from the pressed nuts can also be burned for fuel, he said,

citing research that found cake from 2,000 acres (800 hectares) of

pressed nuts could power a one-Megawat electricity plant — enough for

400 families, he said.

But Thailand, like other countries in the region, faces a chicken-or-egg

issue in promoting jatropha.

Farmers are reluctant to grow it, because there's no market for its use.

But government is reluctant to promote because of the small supply of

nuts, he said.

Consequently, Thailand has only 20,000 acres (8,000 hectares) are

planted with jatropha, mainly in the arid northeast and north.

The government may be changing its tune. Both ousted Prime Minister

Thaksin Shinawatra and his army-installed successor, Surayud Chulanont,

have aggressively searched for new energy sources.

Thailand imports almost all the oil it needs for energy, making it

especially vulnerable to rising oil prices.

The country is embarking on an ambitious series of dam projects across

the border in military-ruled Myanmar, in a bid to generate

hydro-electricity that would be brought back home.

Thailand also has major natural gas interests in Myanmar, and is always

looking for more.

The kingdom has signed a deal with two Japanese companies to look into

building a wind farm off its southern coast, and has investigated

building a power plant that would run off waste from coconut trees.

Hundreds of gas stations in Bangkok already sell gasohol that is 10 per

cent ethanol and slightly cheaper than regular gas.

With global oil prices unlikely to go very far down, Phichai says

Thailand also needs to invest in biodiesel.

"The energy crisis will become a bigger and bigger problem in the

future, and jatropha is the alternative choice," he said. "The country

can save money from importing oil and protect the environment at the

same time."

--

[Khonwan]

OK mate,I thought it an interesting article in view of Rays post so I have c&p it

---

Very interesting article. May be worth planting some even if just for personal use.

[IsaanAussie]

Very interesting article. May be worth planting some even if just for personal use.

Current estimates show a yield of 1.1 litres/Rai/day, a small personal use figure. There are also issues with the poisonous nature of the nuts and I have read that it can cause cancer. One advantage is the oil can be used in simple diesel engines (Rot Thai) at very high proportions without refinement.

[ray23]

What caught mny eye on this is that a Framer in Florida has ren moved his citrus groves to grow his. That may very well be a mistake. But here in Issan we have many area becuase of the slopes ect and no terracing, this could be suitable crop for that and not interfer with food production, Doesn't seem to need a lot water.

Those land would probably be a lot cheaper then good rice land.

But Thought I would kick it out there for you guys who know what you are doing.

[IsaanAussie]

What caught mny eye on this is that a Framer in Florida has ren moved his citrus groves to grow his. That may very well be a mistake. But here in Issan we have many area becuase of the slopes ect and no terracing, this could be suitable crop for that and not interfer with food production, Doesn't seem to need a lot water.

Those land would probably be a lot cheaper then good rice land.

But Thought I would kick it out there for you guys who know what you are doing.

Ray,

The Thai Government has a scheme running to produce community biodiesel for use in simple agricultural machines. This is seperate from the main stream oil company based biodiesel and ethanol projects. As I understand it this is only approved for Rot Thai and other single cylinder engines such as pumps, not for tractors or vehicles and has to contain a purple dye.

Farmers are offered a flat rate for the Jatropha seed and the last costs I got (Mar 08) were 14baht per kg for the seed and conversion cost of about 4-5 baht per litre. A Wat in Suphan Buri is one site out of some 60 that have been government supplied with methanol conversion plants. There were about 30 registered "refiners" in village groups and some individuals.

If you have the seed then you should be able to get someone to produce your product for under 10 baht per litre. The question is if you can actually use it legally, obviously anything is possible in LOS. There is a fair chance the dye may run out in the village or the resultant engine staining fail to be recognised.

What should be remembered is these refining units are limited in capacity per day if your aim is to produce good quality fuel. Commercially made units will take 3 to 5 days to produce a batch of 150 -200 litres if the methanol & lye reation with the oil is allowed to completely finish and the subsequent washing is done thoroughly.

If you want to produce faster then that you need more reaction vessels. So you heat the oil in one unit, plumb that into the first reactor and wait for that batch to process, heat more oil and transfer to further reactors. As the batches are ready they are piped into the washing vessel through the filters and into the tank.

I think the real answer for my part of Isaan (Sisaket) could lie in sunflower seeds and peanuts. These are traditional second crops and have a convenient short growing season after the rice when spare water may still be available. I say this because the only uses for Jatropha byproduct are charcoal making and soap, whereas both peanut and sunflower stover and cake can feed animals.

Jatropha is a main stream target crop for the Thai government and planned for Isaan in particular. In the future it will increase in market share. The next main goal for useage in with the introduction of Euro 4 regulations which is set to coincide with the next fully new pickups in 2012. That is a date set by the car companies and is unlikely to change as it represents a large investment in R&D (particulate filters etc). Further if the sulphur level in the current fuel is not reduced, then no vehicle will achieve Euro 4.

Until then remember, Jatropha is tree and not an annual crop and hence represents an unknown investment return supported currently by little infrastructure. Many things can happen over the next few years and other sources or veg oil are better understood by local farmers.

On a positive finish, I believe that if Jatropha were planted on the bunds on the paddies and along the roadsides, the yield would be about 1 litre of oil per 15 metres of hedgerow. Go figure the number of kilometres of paddy wall in your area and do the maths.

I would love to hear from anyone who is interested in growing sunflowers, peanuts or other oil seed crops for biodiesel/feed outcomes. Oil presses and biodiesel units ROI depends on volume as do all things. PM me if you are interested.

[ray23]

Thanks that was very interesting, wonder if it might be a good application to use for water pumps and create irragation from ground water. Depending on the cost electricity, might serve well for fish or an addtional crop of rice for he year.

I'm still most amazed by growing algae for fuel.

I think the key is to create a bio fuel without disrupting the food supply. The Byproduct of algae serves as feed for animals.

All of these thing I believe have down sides one I can see with algae you obvioulsy need a good water supply.

There is alrady solar available for pumps, but I have no idea waht the costs fo purchased would be, my best guess at this point it would be expensive.

There is a plans for resoviors in the Issan area under consideration with an idea to increase crop production. Lao is already finding out that ther even downsides to local communities for Hydro power. Two things for sure people got to eat and we need energy.

I'm not a framer but find this to be very interesting

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks that was very interesting, wonder if it might be a good application to use for water pumps and create irragation from ground water. Depending on the cost electricity, might serve well for fish or an addtional crop of rice for he year.

I'm still most amazed by growing algae for fuel.

I think the key is to create a bio fuel without disrupting the food supply. The Byproduct of algae serves as feed for animals.

All of these thing I believe have down sides one I can see with algae you obvioulsy need a good water supply.

There is alrady solar available for pumps, but I have no idea waht the costs fo purchased would be, my best guess at this point it would be expensive.

There is a plans for resoviors in the Issan area under consideration with an idea to increase crop production. Lao is already finding out that ther even downsides to local communities for Hydro power. Two things for sure people got to eat and we need energy.

I'm not a framer but find this to be very interesting

Ray,

Most locals near us use the two wheel tractor is a pwoer source for everything. Belt driven water pumps both centifugal pumps for higher pressures and lifts and screw pumps for volume moving out of rivers and klongs. Biodiesel or even straight vegetable oil can be used. I could convert my Ford Ranger to run on straight vegie oil by replaced a few parts. Obvious problem is then supply when off-farm, cooking oil is 46 Baht and up if I were to refuel at Tescos.

We have a new reservior in the village. It was made by cleaning out and enlarging a nature swampy area of wetlands. Is that the current scheme?

[IsaanAussie]

A friend has an old Lister type single cylinder. He starts it on kerosene or other light petroleum product and then pours in almost anything he has. Great way to get rid of the sump oil etc.. Point is with very simple engine technology like that. the motor will burn anything.....

Rudolph Diesels first engine ran on peanut oil.

Perhaps solar panels are a bit too complex to be fixed in Isaan? Most tool boxes contain a hammer and a bent nail. But black hose and a bit of glass makes a hot water heater and can be run with syphoned water!

[ray23]

The water tank in the sun gives warm water.

No I think what is being proposed is a real reseviors. Lot more money to spent then cleaning out a swamp area, they was some mention of diverting water from Mae Kong, so serious buisness

[Khonwan]

... As I understand it this is only approved for Rot Thai and other single cylinder engines such as pumps, not for tractors or vehicles ...

I'm following this thread with interest. One correction though: 'rot tai' (plough) is Thai for 'tractor' (all sizes). I've no idea what the Thai government allows in this respect but have read that jatropha oil is a suitable fuel for tractors.

Rgds

Khonwan

Edited June 22, 2008 by Khonwan

[IsaanAussie]

... As I understand it this is only approved for Rot Thai and other single cylinder engines such as pumps, not for tractors or vehicles ...

I'm following this thread with interest. One correction though: 'rot tai' (plough) is Thai for 'tractor' (all sizes). I've no idea what the Thai government allows in this respect but have read that jatropha oil is a suitable fuel for tractors.

Rgds

Khonwan

Thanks for the correction on tractor terminology. The scheme I was describing is specifically designed to assist small community based refining for agricultural fuel purposes. Self-sufficiency and rising fuel costs for the rural community objectives. As I understand it, the fuel can only be used in single cylinder four stroke diesels at this stage. Not in multi-cylinder engines.

Jatropha oil has a high energy level and makes great biodiesel. It is the backbone of the Indian scheme as the plants grow in very low rainfall areas in poor soil, animals do not forage on them and they are easy to establish. The Thai government lists it as second priority to palm oil. I suppose not being a food source for humans or animals it will quell the food or fuel debate if grown on non-viable locations.

If you wish to convert any vegetable oil, virgin or used, or even animal fats it can be done on farm. The process is relatively easy and the equipment can be made at home. However it involves the use of methanol which can be explosive and produces glycerin as a byproduct.

Regardless of the feedstock, the devil is in the detail. The oil yield from most oil seeds is maximised when the seed is heated before pressing and the oil must be preheated for the transesterfication process to complete. Methanol sources must be found (ratio 20%), it must be stored safely and as much as possible be recovered from the process on completion to control costs.

[camerata]

Miracle plant's monstrous potential

Harry Nicolaides July 14, 2008

"...the delegates were not investors or scientists but raw-boned, Thai rice farmers, plied with a lavish two-day luncheon and meditation sessions to hear that if they chose to grow jatropha they could make profits within 12 months.

They were even offered free seeds to start their own plantations and 'grow a golden egg that could be passed from father to son to grandson'. However, unlike the fabled Jack and the Beanstalk, the Thai farmers would be giving up much more than a cow for their handful of seeds and promise of untold wealth. "

Continued on Eureka Street.

[jts-khorat]

As always, the devil is in the detail: "just" planting it will not be enough, planting it correctly to get high yields will be the issue. If only absolutely marginable land is used, production will be accordingly work-expensive for very low yields and maybe not really worth it without government subsidies.

From http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinio...rticle_id=87461 (talkign about the Philippines):

Jatropha becomes a viable source of biodiesel if diesel is retailed at P40 per liter; if the crop has a high fruit yield of 36,000 kilogram per hectare (ha); if it has a high rate of oil extraction (34 percent and 38 percent); and if byproducts are included and provide 50-percent additional income from the oil revenue.

The assumption is that the price of jatropha seeds corresponds to the price of diesel. But would a high yield of 36,000 kg/ha and high oil content (34 percent and 38 percent) be achieved under Philippine conditions?

This question can only be definitively answered in some future time because we do not have a plantation already on the optimum fruiting age (five years after planting) and no jatropha variety is grown in the Philippines that yields 34 percent oil. The current laboratory oil extraction is in the range of 28 percent to 32 percent.

At a low-yield level (12,000 kg/ha), jatropha becomes profitable for farmers growing it if the diesel price increases to about P140 per liter at a 30-percent rate of oil extraction (revenue is from oil alone). This implies that the buying price of jatropha seeds at the farm level is P42/kg. The substrate cost shall be P42/.30 = P140/liter of biodiesel.

The estimates exclude processing and marketing costs. Current estimates put the processing cost at P12/liter. Then, the price of biodiesel from jatropha becomes P152/liter [P140 + P12]. What if the oil price increases to more than P152 per liter? If so, let’s be prepared to use caleza and bicycle, or simply walk.

Jatropha’s seed yield is inherently low, which explains partly the low revenue.

[Deke]

As always, the devil is in the detail: "just" planting it will not be enough, planting it correctly to get high yields will be the issue. If only absolutely marginable land is used, production will be accordingly work-expensive for very low yields and maybe not really worth it without government subsidies.

Not to mention the fact that it's very labor intensive to harvest. Until the bioengineering folks come up with a strain that doesn't go to seed and flower at the same time, the economics just don't work.