Faarang Cops On Samui..

[sriracha john]

The penalty for working without a valid work permit in Thailand is basically the same as for overstay:

Jail, fine, deportation and possibly blacklisted from entering the Kingdom again.

Read this info: http://www.thaivisa.com/303.0.html

I repeat, there are NO exceptions. All foreigners need a valid work permit.

About 200 western foreigners per year are deported for illegal work.

"No exceptions"

What about retired Farang (over 50) who are on a retirement visa. Do they need a W/P?

According to:

http://eng.mol.go.th/doe_service01.html

and

http://eng.mol.go.th/law_labour.html

No means no and all means all, as was posted by george.

Edited June 21, 2008 by sriracha john

[koheesti]

There are a lot of old/former hippies on Samui so it's natural that the word "police" would invoke such distrust.

[sriracha john]

As well as those who lived under a police state, so it's natural they would feel less than trusting.

[peperobi]

As well as those who lived under a police state, so it's natural they would feel less than trusting.

Hey peoples,

I really don't understand all the discussion about WP or not for the volunteer, I think that everyone shut do something to help the community especially in a country like Thailand, for a volunteer job by a government institution is not necessary to have a WP.

Important is for mine opinion that people that join the police force are clean people and that they don't use this position to do strange things.

I thanks all the people that spend time and money for help other people.

Please stop this very negative discussion.

[Boater]

[Boater]

[Briggsy]

The International Business Association of Phuket or IBAP monthly meeting last Friday evening was held at the nice setting of PG's Steak and Rib House beside the swimming pool The Yorkshire Inn in Patong.

IBAP members and guests came for a Question and Answer session with representatives from the Phuket Provincial Employment Office (or Labor Department), to speak about work permits here in Phuket, a difficult but important issue for most foreign residents.

Khun Janya Yingyong, a Labour officer and 2 independent translators tried to answer the Members and guests’ questions, some of which were prepared beforehand online at www.IBAP-Phuket.org.

For example one asked: “I am currently teaching in Thailand. Another school has asked me to do some hours teaching for them. Can I legally do so with the work permit for the other school? If not, could you please advise me what I should do?” The labour official answered through the translator that it was not legally possible to work for 2 schools at same time:

“It is not allowed to do that for other schools; it doesn’t allow to do that.”

Another member asked “While still in the USA, what steps can I take to ensure a smooth process in obtaining a work permit?” The reply was more positive for foreigners, known here as ‘aliens’:

“In the case of an alien still abroad, ask your employer to send documents to the Employment Office; submit all docs; Thai employer can consult; when alien arrives they can get work permit.”

A controversial subject was permits for volunteer work, especially among retirees, as they said it was illegal:

“If you hold retirement, you’re not allowed to work, even volunteer, it’s illegal.”

Michael Massey, president of IBAP, had to calm some of the members;

Denny Bowman, IBAP Treasurer, tried a follow up question, which got a better reply:

“If you have a retirement visa, can you serve as a board member of say Lions or Rotary Club or non-profit organization; can you serve as a Board Member for an organization like that?”

“as long as you don’t sign any paper, you can be a member of any club.”

But one member was not still not satisfied

“when you don’t have work permit, can’t do volunteer work, it really amazes me…

The reply then clarified that it was possible for specific volunteers like Tourist Police:

“For non Thai helping the government like police, they can work without work permit, because it is short time, not long time.”

So there you have it, from the horse's mouth. Labour Department official confirms Work Permits are not required for Tourist Police Volunteers.

[sriracha john]

Hey peoples,

I really don't understand all the discussion about WP or not for the volunteer, I think that everyone shut do something to help the community especially in a country like Thailand, for a volunteer job by a government institution is not necessary to have a WP.

Please stop this very negative discussion.

Statement in red is absolutely FALSE (refer to the government links provided earlier, or if you have any proof that says so otherwise, please reference them).

It's not "negative" to wish to alert people of the illegality of a situation. It's postive.

and yet once again, it's not an issue of altruism, it's a matter of legality... which is something that someone considering joining a police force may wish to ponder.

[sriracha john]

Khun Janya Yingyong, a Labour officer and 2 independent translators tried to answer the Members and guests’ questions

A controversial subject was permits for volunteer work, especially among retirees, as they said it was illegal:

“when you don’t have work permit, can’t do volunteer work, it really amazes me…

The reply then clarified that it was possible for specific volunteers like Tourist Police:

“For non Thai helping the government like police, they can work without work permit, because it is short time, not long time.”

So there you have it, from the horse's mouth. Labour Department official confirms Work Permits are not required for Tourist Police Volunteers.

actually the translators mouth... who seemed to be struggling to get their messages across on other issues as well.

That Phuket Labour Office is the exact same office that issued the threat of imprisonment and deportation and fines for the work permit-less tsunami volunteers.

Specifically how long is a "short time" versus "long time" that is referred? (besides the the obvious "entertainment" connotation context)

Sorry, but until the laws are changed, this is by no means an exemption.

[garro]

Hey peoples,

I really don't understand all the discussion about WP or not for the volunteer, I think that everyone shut do something to help the community especially in a country like Thailand, for a volunteer job by a government institution is not necessary to have a WP.

Please stop this very negative discussion.

Statement in red is absolutely FALSE (refer to the government links provided earlier, or if you have any proof that says so otherwise, please reference them).

It's not "negative" to wish to alert people of the illegality of a situation. It's postive.

and yet once again, it's not an issue of altruism, it's a matter of legality... which is something that someone considering joining a police force may wish to ponder.

For goodess sake. Do you really believe any of these police volunteers are going to get in any trouble for not having a work permit? Don't be silly. You are just arguing for the exercise.

[sriracha john]

Hey peoples,

I really don't understand all the discussion about WP or not for the volunteer, I think that everyone shut do something to help the community especially in a country like Thailand, for a volunteer job by a government institution is not necessary to have a WP.

Please stop this very negative discussion.

Statement in red is absolutely FALSE (refer to the government links provided earlier, or if you have any proof that says so otherwise, please reference them).

It's not "negative" to wish to alert people of the illegality of a situation. It's postive.

and yet once again, it's not an issue of altruism, it's a matter of legality... which is something that someone considering joining a police force may wish to ponder.

For goodess sake. Do you really believe any of these police volunteers are going to get in any trouble for not having a work permit? Don't be silly. You are just arguing for the exercise.

First, I'm not "arguing", I'm informing.

This board is read by thousands who are unaware of the law...obviously including some of the posters in this very thread.... AND even the police volunteers themselves (albeit he's an admitted ex-police volunteer).

If police volunteers and potential police volunteers recognize that they are illegal and are aware of the repercussions of their actions and still choose to continue their work or decide to enlist into the police force, that's entirely up to them. Will they ever get into trouble? I don't know. Are you willing to guarantee they won't or are you totally dismissive of any possible scenario where the potential for getting into trouble exists. Given the severity of the punishment potential, is it worth it? If the police volunteer decides it is, then go for it. It's the same risk versus benefit analysis that smarter criminals make before committing an illegal act.

Anyway, it's all about informed consent... and it's not informed, if posters and even the police themselves are putting out false information.

Edited June 22, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Many people would assume that volunteering at a government school would be equally "safe" from concern from the authorities....

Borrowed from another thread on volunteerism...

I worked as a respected ajarn at one of the oldest govt. schools in northern Thailand. In the opening interview, they clearly told me they would not get me a work permit or help me with my visa, period. Later I heard the school had recently paid a huge fine or bribe for employing foreign teachers illegally. If they had told me the last part, they would have been more honest.

[twschw]

Hey peoples,

I really don't understand all the discussion about WP or not for the volunteer, I think that everyone shut do something to help the community especially in a country like Thailand, for a volunteer job by a government institution is not necessary to have a WP.

Please stop this very negative discussion.

Statement in red is absolutely FALSE (refer to the government links provided earlier, or if you have any proof that says so otherwise, please reference them).

It's not "negative" to wish to alert people of the illegality of a situation. It's postive.

and yet once again, it's not an issue of altruism, it's a matter of legality... which is something that someone considering joining a police force may wish to ponder.

For goodess sake. Do you really believe any of these police volunteers are going to get in any trouble for not having a work permit? Don't be silly. You are just arguing for the exercise.

First, I'm not "arguing", I'm informing.

This board is read by thousands who are unaware of the law...obviously including some of the posters in this very thread.... AND even the police volunteers themselves (albeit he's an admitted ex-police volunteer).

If police volunteers and potential police volunteers recognize that they are illegal and are aware of the repercussions of their actions and still choose to continue their work or decide to enlist into the police force, that's entirely up to them. Will they ever get into trouble? I don't know. Are you willing to guarantee they won't or are you totally dismissive of any possible scenario where the potential for getting into trouble exists. Given the severity of the punishment potential, is it worth it? If the police volunteer decides it is, then go for it. It's the same risk versus benefit analysis that smarter criminals make before committing an illegal act.

Anyway, it's all about informed consent... and it's not informed, if posters and even the police themselves are putting out false information.

So you have made your point now let people make their own decisions.

[sriracha john]

Hey peoples,

I really don't understand all the discussion about WP or not for the volunteer, I think that everyone shut do something to help the community especially in a country like Thailand, for a volunteer job by a government institution is not necessary to have a WP.

Please stop this very negative discussion.

Statement in red is absolutely FALSE (refer to the government links provided earlier, or if you have any proof that says so otherwise, please reference them).

It's not "negative" to wish to alert people of the illegality of a situation. It's postive.

and yet once again, it's not an issue of altruism, it's a matter of legality... which is something that someone considering joining a police force may wish to ponder.

For goodess sake. Do you really believe any of these police volunteers are going to get in any trouble for not having a work permit? Don't be silly. You are just arguing for the exercise.

First, I'm not "arguing", I'm informing.

This board is read by thousands who are unaware of the law...obviously including some of the posters in this very thread.... AND even the police volunteers themselves (albeit he's an admitted ex-police volunteer).

If police volunteers and potential police volunteers recognize that they are illegal and are aware of the repercussions of their actions and still choose to continue their work or decide to enlist into the police force, that's entirely up to them. Will they ever get into trouble? I don't know. Are you willing to guarantee they won't or are you totally dismissive of any possible scenario where the potential for getting into trouble exists. Given the severity of the punishment potential, is it worth it? If the police volunteer decides it is, then go for it. It's the same risk versus benefit analysis that smarter criminals make before committing an illegal act.

Anyway, it's all about informed consent... and it's not informed, if posters and even the police themselves are putting out false information.

So you have made your point now let people make their own decisions.

As I always have through countless police volunteer threads over multiple years.... to return when the next inevitable falsehood gets posted.

[peperobi]

Hey peoples,

I really don't understand all the discussion about WP or not for the volunteer, I think that everyone shut do something to help the community especially in a country like Thailand, for a volunteer job by a government institution is not necessary to have a WP.

Please stop this very negative discussion.

Statement in red is absolutely FALSE (refer to the government links provided earlier, or if you have any proof that says so otherwise, please reference them).

It's not "negative" to wish to alert people of the illegality of a situation. It's postive.

and yet once again, it's not an issue of altruism, it's a matter of legality... which is something that someone considering joining a police force may wish to ponder.

For goodess sake. Do you really believe any of these police volunteers are going to get in any trouble for not having a work permit? Don't be silly. You are just arguing for the exercise.

First, I'm not "arguing", I'm informing.

This board is read by thousands who are unaware of the law...obviously including some of the posters in this very thread.... AND even the police volunteers themselves (albeit he's an admitted ex-police volunteer).

If police volunteers and potential police volunteers recognize that they are illegal and are aware of the repercussions of their actions and still choose to continue their work or decide to enlist into the police force, that's entirely up to them. Will they ever get into trouble? I don't know. Are you willing to guarantee they won't or are you totally dismissive of any possible scenario where the potential for getting into trouble exists. Given the severity of the punishment potential, is it worth it? If the police volunteer decides it is, then go for it. It's the same risk versus benefit analysis that smarter criminals make before committing an illegal act.

Anyway, it's all about informed consent... and it's not informed, if posters and even the police themselves are putting out false information.

So you have made your point now let people make their own decisions.

As I always have through countless police volunteer threads over multiple years.... to return when the next inevitable falsehood gets posted.

I don’t think that this is our or your problem but only the problem from the peoples that decided to do so.

Let them do what they like to do and enjoy that you are out of risk.

[BigC]

Hey peoples,

I really don't understand all the discussion about WP or not for the volunteer, I think that everyone shut do something to help the community especially in a country like Thailand, for a volunteer job by a government institution is not necessary to have a WP.

Please stop this very negative discussion.

Statement in red is absolutely FALSE (refer to the government links provided earlier, or if you have any proof that says so otherwise, please reference them).

It's not "negative" to wish to alert people of the illegality of a situation. It's postive.

and yet once again, it's not an issue of altruism, it's a matter of legality... which is something that someone considering joining a police force may wish to ponder.

For goodess sake. Do you really believe any of these police volunteers are going to get in any trouble for not having a work permit? Don't be silly. You are just arguing for the exercise.

First, I'm not "arguing", I'm informing.

This board is read by thousands who are unaware of the law...obviously including some of the posters in this very thread.... AND even the police volunteers themselves (albeit he's an admitted ex-police volunteer).

If police volunteers and potential police volunteers recognize that they are illegal and are aware of the repercussions of their actions and still choose to continue their work or decide to enlist into the police force, that's entirely up to them. Will they ever get into trouble? I don't know. Are you willing to guarantee they won't or are you totally dismissive of any possible scenario where the potential for getting into trouble exists. Given the severity of the punishment potential, is it worth it? If the police volunteer decides it is, then go for it. It's the same risk versus benefit analysis that smarter criminals make before committing an illegal act.

Anyway, it's all about informed consent... and it's not informed, if posters and even the police themselves are putting out false information.

So you have made your point now let people make their own decisions.

As I always have through countless police volunteer threads over multiple years.... to return when the next inevitable falsehood gets posted.

I don’t think that this is our or your problem but only the problem from the peoples that decided to do so.

Let them do what they like to do and enjoy that you are out of risk.

if the forang t.p do not have any powers does it matter if they have a criminal record in there country of origin

[gusalf]

The cop who used to work as a volunteer in Bophut was a delight. Able to defuse situations simply by dint of speaking a european language actually he was a Brit. These folks make life much more comfortable for the many of you who are rather snobbish about tourists. Basically they save you problems.

So, let us stop all this xenophobia and accept that a real service is being provided and frankly if all you need to do is to whinge, then move to the Costa Btava.

[onnut]

don't worry they can't do nothing exept help the police. they are just do good community people who prabably never had the bottle to do what they wanted in thier own country so they though they might try it over here. i sore one directing traffic once. everyone was just ignoring him ha ha

well thats abit crap mate, these guy are only trying to help people. I think thats very Galant of them.

you would never catch me wearing those uniforms though. for fear of looking like a <deleted>.

[Jimjim]

What's wrong with expecting them to "implement something" in a transparent and legal manner?

Because they give a rat's ass what sriracha john on thaivisa.com thinks.

For lunch, I went to macdonalds, in chaweng, from bophut where I live... I don't go to chaweng really often so I'm sure this subject has been discussed many times here, but that's the first time I noticed it:

On the way to chaweng road, we passed 5 or 6 tourist police officers... all faraangs !!! some had a black shirt saying "volunteer" in the back, some had a white shirt, and looked more like NSW cops (for those who know what i'm talking about)...

What are they really ? Are they entitled to stop me while I'm speeding - I mean driving - my car ? 'cause they don't look like they'd let me get away with a coupla red bills...

Anyway I was just wondering, because I was surprised to see a red haired faraang cop girl here... sorry if this subject has been discussed before.

Hi,

i'm a former tourist police volunteer.

The volunteer are only translator in uniform, so don't worry even some of them have a behauvior like a sheriff.

The most of them are people that geting boring because they have nothing to do.

I would imagine being enabled to act as a "john" in a prostitution bust operation or being an undercover buyer of drugs in a narcotics operation or just strutting about in non-undercover police outfits is certainly not boring.

The prostitution busts you're referring to took place in Pattaya and not Samui, and the poster was talking about Samui. But, yes, a tourist police officer having sex with a prostitute and then busting her is incredibly big BS. But we know why they were busted don't we? Because they were Uzbeks. If they were Thai they'd have no problem, unless they worked for some place that hadn't been paying their tea money. Remember some things are illegal in Thailand yet still are allowed to go on no problem.

Thank you very much for your honesty. We'll add a tick for "Samui" on the No-Have Work Permit For Police Work list.

Speak for yourself, nobody else is really keeping track.

Actually that would be with the Labour Ministry as they control work permits, but no thanks, I'm not interested in being a cop on any level.

Indeed it would bet the Labour Ministry but I'm sure the immigration police could bust you for such an offense, unless the Ministry has it's own cops. You certainly have the personality of a cop.

The penalty for working without a valid work permit in Thailand is basically the same as for overstay:

Jail, fine, deportation and possibly blacklisted from entering the Kingdom again.

Read this info: http://www.thaivisa.com/303.0.html

I repeat, there are NO exceptions. All foreigners need a valid work permit.

About 200 western foreigners per year are deported for illegal work.

And how many of those 200 a year are are tourist police volunteers?

Khun Janya Yingyong, a Labour officer and 2 independent translators tried to answer the Members and guests’ questions

A controversial subject was permits for volunteer work, especially among retirees, as they said it was illegal:

“when you don’t have work permit, can’t do volunteer work, it really amazes me…

The reply then clarified that it was possible for specific volunteers like Tourist Police:

“For non Thai helping the government like police, they can work without work permit, because it is short time, not long time.”

So there you have it, from the horse's mouth. Labour Department official confirms Work Permits are not required for Tourist Police Volunteers.

actually the translators mouth... who seemed to be struggling to get their messages across on other issues as well.

That Phuket Labour Office is the exact same office that issued the threat of imprisonment and deportation and fines for the work permit-less tsunami volunteers.

Specifically how long is a "short time" versus "long time" that is referred? (besides the the obvious "entertainment" connotation context)

Sorry, but until the laws are changed, this is by no means an exemption.

You so easily like to dismiss what was said just to bang on with your position. They issued a threat for the deportation of tsunami volunteers and then others in the government cried foul. As far as I know, none were arrested. I think the translators may have had trouble, as you said, but I think it was pretty clear the government is giving an exemption for this issue. So, maybe according to the exact letter of the law, it's not an exemption, but it practice it is an exemption. Your failure to see this amazes me. It's pretty clear the government doesn't care.

First, I'm not "arguing", I'm informing.

Given the severity of the punishment potential, is it worth it?

Sorry, in the strictest sense, you are arguing. Would have thought a stickler for small details like you would know that. People present their idea, and you issue a counter. That's arguing, my friend. Look it up in a dictionary.

Yes, it is worth it because they are doing a good service (disregarding the crazy Pattaya busts) for the most part. It's about serving your fellow human. And, since a clear statement has been given at least in one instance that the government does not care about work permits for tourist police volunteers, and regarding the fact that they are in fact working for the police and the police have authority in their areas of interest, and nobody has given evidence of any foreigner working for the police in this fashion being arrested for no work permit, I think we can safely state that the practice of the law in this case is that they will not be bothered. We live in a real world, not a world of paper. So, keep living in the world of paper and fine print and the rest of us will live in the real world. And that real world in Thailand is different where you come from so I would think you'd have realized how things work by now.

I'd say the chance of them getting arrested is about, oh, .000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent. Is it worth it? Ya, probably, given those odds. Because you can give no proof that anyone is out to get them in the government. And when evidence is given of that you disregard it as a translation issue. Sadly, you're not very convincing.

If anything changes, I'd bet they will just be told they have stop working or they'll arrest them for working with a permit. Considering all the illegal things that go on in full view of the police and everyone else, I'd think this is about the lowest on the list.

Edited June 22, 2008 by Jimjim

[sbk]

To those who might not have read the entire thread:

Please be aware that the Samuitouristpolice.com website may be infected by a virus, so perhaps best not to visit their site. If anyone has any contact with the Samui tourist police they might want to inform them that their website's security has been compromised.

back to the discussion at hand and let's please keep it civil, thanks

[sriracha john]

The most of them are people that geting boring because they have nothing to do.

I would imagine being enabled to act as a "john" in a prostitution bust operation or being an undercover buyer of drugs in a narcotics operation or just strutting about in non-undercover police outfits is certainly not boring.

The prostitution busts you're referring to took place in Pattaya and not Samui, and the poster was talking about Samui.

And yet the expat meeting with the Labour official was in Phuket that you wish to cite is, "not Samui, and the poster was talking Samui". The whole point of this discussion, not an "argument" (although you certainly attempt to make it one), is to relate for information purposes what is happening elsewhere with similar programs. What is setting this thread apart from most other police volunteer threads is that no current police volunteers have come onto the thread and posted. The only poster on this particular thread who was at least an ex-police volunteer has stated that they don't have work permits.

But, yes, a tourist police officer having sex with a prostitute and then busting her is incredibly big BS.

I agree. I also think a foreign volunteer police working in undercover narcotics operations is also "incredibly big BS". There are numerous reports of volunteer police commiting acts of crime themselves such as drug dealing, theft, and extortion. While they weren't foreign police volunteers, it would seem to point out a definite problem with the amount of screening and supervision that is done and that impacts the entire program.

The penalty for working without a valid work permit in Thailand is basically the same as for overstay:

Jail, fine, deportation and possibly blacklisted from entering the Kingdom again.

Read this info: http://www.thaivisa.com/303.0.html

I repeat, there are NO exceptions. All foreigners need a valid work permit.

About 200 western foreigners per year are deported for illegal work.

And how many of those 200 a year are are tourist police volunteers?

You need to PM george for that information.

Khun Janya Yingyong, a Labour officer and 2 independent translators tried to answer the Members and guests’ questions

A controversial subject was permits for volunteer work, especially among retirees, as they said it was illegal:

“when you don’t have work permit, can’t do volunteer work, it really amazes me…

The reply then clarified that it was possible for specific volunteers like Tourist Police:

“For non Thai helping the government like police, they can work without work permit, because it is short time, not long time.”

So there you have it, from the horse's mouth. Labour Department official confirms Work Permits are not required for Tourist Police Volunteers.

actually the translators mouth... who seemed to be struggling to get their messages across on other issues as well.

That Phuket Labour Office is the exact same office that issued the threat of imprisonment and deportation and fines for the work permit-less tsunami volunteers.

Specifically how long is a "short time" versus "long time" that is referred? (besides the the obvious "entertainment" connotation context)

Sorry, but until the laws are changed, this is by no means an exemption.

You so easily like to dismiss what was said just to bang on with your position.

My "position" is to simply inform on what the legal situation is. Has the law been changed?

They issued a threat for the deportation of tsunami volunteers and then others in the government cried foul.

Please provide a reference that that is what occured. Who or what others "cried foul"?

As far as I know, none were arrested. I think the translators may have had trouble, as you said, but I think it was pretty clear the government is giving an exemption for this issue.

So why not issue an official exemption to protect the volunteers? Should be a piece of cake for one government agency to request another government agency for an official work permit exemption letter as is provided for by law. Perhaps it's because, as PeaceBlondie experienced with his segment of a government entity, each agency likes to protect its own fiefdom. That, of course, is useful when a situation arises in which they wish to flex their fiefdom's muscle (for whatever reason) and enforce their rules... as what happened in PeaceBlondie's situation. If the Labour Ministry has demonstrated they are fully willing to mess with the Education Ministry, there's no reason to assume they wouldn't also mess with the Interior Ministry when the urge strikes them to or for some situation that it would benefit them to do so.

So, maybe according to the exact letter of the law, it's not an exemption, but it practice it is an exemption. Your failure to see this amazes me. It's pretty clear the government doesn't care.

Today it may seem that way. And tomorrow? Who knows? I don't. Do you? No. The ebb and flow of how government agencies operate in this country is the subject of literally hundreds of threads in this forum. Throw 2 different government agences into the mix and the likelihood of "doesn't care" changing to "cares a lot" is increased dramatically. Policies and practices can change on a dime. "Your failure to see this amazes me." If something is changed overnight, the only thing that would protect the volunteers is IF they were compliant with the law.

Given the severity of the punishment potential, is it worth it?

Yes, it is worth it because they are doing a good service (disregarding the crazy Pattaya busts) for the most part.

The validity of their altruism is not a point of contention, as has been mentioned a half dozen times. It's the legality of their efforts.

I'd say the chance of them getting arrested is about, oh, .000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent. Is it worth it? Ya, probably, given those odds.

*additional quote inserted here* If the police volunteer decides it is, then go for it. It's the same risk versus benefit analysis that smarter criminals make before committing an illegal act.

You've done the analysis for them. I would contend, given the highly volatile nature of change in government policies and practices in this country, it is not nearly that low.

Because you can give no proof that anyone is out to get them in the government.

That's true this morning. Tonight may be a different situation entirely. Or have you never witnessed any changes in laws, regulations, or policy enforcement that has changed dramatically in this country?

If anything changes, I'd bet they will just be told they have stop working or they'll arrest them for working with a permit.

There's a heck of lot to put on the line, given the potential consequences, that that is how things would play out. Are you aware of this country's penchant to make foreigners out to be the scapegoat in any number of situations?

Considering all the illegal things that go on in full view of the police and everyone else, I'd think this is about the lowest on the list.

For now it may seem that way, later on this afternoon, perhaps not. It does go to the point of do people trust the regular police? Would you depend on them to "have your back" and to protect you (even if it meant they would be the ones to suffer consequences) if something untoward should happen in which a current policy is changed?

If you were a volunteer, would you feel comfortable that if it came down a scenario that it was up to them to defend you and risk punishment themselves that they would OR would they simply "sell you down the river" and disavow any knowledge of your status and legality in order to protect themselves?

At the end of the day, for volunteers or someone considering becoming one, it comes down to: Do you trust the regular Thai police?

[Jose]

This lengthy "discussion" on the legality of volunteer work has got me thinking...

I "volunteer" to clean up the rubbish from my beach every day - should I have a work permit?

I can guarantee that I'm certainly not taking anyone's job doing this thankless & unpaid task.

My question with regards to work permits is:

Where does one cross the line between paid work and volunteer work?

[mattias33]

This lengthy "discussion" on the legality of volunteer work has got me thinking...

I "volunteer" to clean up the rubbish from my beach every day - should I have a work permit?

I can guarantee that I'm certainly not taking anyone's job doing this thankless & unpaid task.

My question with regards to work permits is:

Where does one cross the line between paid work and volunteer work?

When you receive money for your work.

[peperobi]

I personally believe that in principal Tourist volunteers are a good idea,The tag police is misleading and open to abuse.

My largest concern is the lack of vetting procedure,I know of one such volunteer that has a criminal resume fagan would be proud of,he has served time for some crimes run away from others.

People in Thailand (expats) trusted him due to his charm uniform and position he has since conned a few and is now wanted by the BIB.

Im aware that always you will find bad people in any group, but for this position surely the BIB should check at least with embassy of applicant.

Right! then I know about few people here that leaving ther contry because they do some criminal business there...

Is true then the responsibility is quite big because like you writing the tourist believe and trust the farangs in uniform especially if they are together with a Thai police officer.

Anyway the idea is not bad if they find the right way to do it.

[peperobi]

Hey peoples,

I really don't understand all the discussion about WP or not for the volunteer, I think that everyone shut do something to help the community especially in a country like Thailand, for a volunteer job by a government institution is not necessary to have a WP.

Please stop this very negative discussion.

Statement in red is absolutely FALSE (refer to the government links provided earlier, or if you have any proof that says so otherwise, please reference them).

It's not "negative" to wish to alert people of the illegality of a situation. It's postive.

and yet once again, it's not an issue of altruism, it's a matter of legality... which is something that someone considering joining a police force may wish to ponder.

For goodess sake. Do you really believe any of these police volunteers are going to get in any trouble for not having a work permit? Don't be silly. You are just arguing for the exercise.

First, I'm not "arguing", I'm informing.

This board is read by thousands who are unaware of the law...obviously including some of the posters in this very thread.... AND even the police volunteers themselves (albeit he's an admitted ex-police volunteer).

If police volunteers and potential police volunteers recognize that they are illegal and are aware of the repercussions of their actions and still choose to continue their work or decide to enlist into the police force, that's entirely up to them. Will they ever get into trouble? I don't know. Are you willing to guarantee they won't or are you totally dismissive of any possible scenario where the potential for getting into trouble exists. Given the severity of the punishment potential, is it worth it? If the police volunteer decides it is, then go for it. It's the same risk versus benefit analysis that smarter criminals make before committing an illegal act.

Anyway, it's all about informed consent... and it's not informed, if posters and even the police themselves are putting out false information.

So you have made your point now let people make their own decisions.

As I always have through countless police volunteer threads over multiple years.... to return when the next inevitable falsehood gets posted.

I don't think that this is our or your problem but only the problem from the peoples that decided to do so.

Let them do what they like to do and enjoy that you are out of risk.

if the forang t.p do not have any powers does it matter if they have a criminal record in there country of origin

I think it will be a problem then the most of the tourist believe what they said and this can be bad.

[BigC]

must admit if u want to look like a <deleted> then dress up like hitler or a tourist policeman lol

how ever i would wear a t.p uniform if i was going to a fancy dress party. Either that or coco the clown can't decide both are quite stupid

[Gatorade]

must admit if u want to look like a <deleted> then dress up like hitler or a tourist policeman lol

how ever i would wear a t.p uniform if i was going to a fancy dress party. Either that or coco the clown can't decide both are quite stupid

Is it my impression or don't you like the T.P.?

Really, this whole issue has got to be rated as one of the most boring threads..... ever.

[SamuiJens]

must admit if u want to look like a <deleted> then dress up like hitler or a tourist policeman lol

how ever i would wear a t.p uniform if i was going to a fancy dress party. Either that or coco the clown can't decide both are quite stupid

Is it my impression or don't you like the T.P.?

Really, this whole issue has got to be rated as one of the most boring threads..... ever.

Maybe the TP can help you??

[Jimjim]

You're funny, SJ. You clearly have your mind set on this and even evidence doesn't convince you. I just think common sense says that this is not an issue. They work for the police for goodness' sake. For the ones who are getting in on busts it probably isn't smart for them. And doing illegal things while they're at it. Ya, that's dumb. I think work permits would be the least of their worries regarding putting themselves in danger. For those who are just going to assist tourists that need someone to understand them better I say go ahead and don't worry about the work permits. I know the quote came only from Phuket, but I think it is representative of a clear attitude for this position from those in the government. Good job of misdirecting my argument to take the light off of yours. Sorry, but work permits in Samui has nothing to do with busts in Pattaya. Why don't they give a clearer written exemption? Probably lazy or there is somebody who doesn't want to set a precedent for volunteers. Regardless, out of 200 foreigners a year arrested for working with no work permits my point was I doubt any were tourist police volunteers. I'd bet money on it. Think of the high amounts of teachers and others that are working without work permits. Got to be tens of thousands. Possibly hundreds. Impossible to tell. So, I think yes, the odds of a tourist police volunteer (who is not getting involved in nefarious activities) getting arrested for working with no work permit is extremely low.

Regarding that story about tourists working as tsunami help volunteers without having work permits and some in the government crying foul (because they said work permits weren't necessary as it was an urgent situation and they were doing good work), I'm sorry I don't remember a source but it's true. It was three years ago. I have a good memory but not photographic. I remember reading the article in probably the bangkok post or maybe the Nation or some other place online or in print. It was a reliable source whatever it was.

Yes, you are arguing. I'm not turning it into an argument. The whole thread has been argument. You may think you are informing, and you are informing people but at the same time you are arguing. I'm not talking about a heated political argument, or an argument where two people are yelling and want to fight. It's a simple word argument, but it is an argument. When you take my words and present your own trying to show your own position in opposition or questioning my words, it's called an argument. Look it up in the dictionary. It's quite simple.

[sriracha john]

You're funny, SJ.

I find it's funny you fail to see the irony of police volunteers working illegally.

You clearly have your mind set on this and even evidence doesn't convince you.

What evidence? A law change? or anything more substantial than the translated word of a labour worker at an ex-pat meeting where things were reported as getting rather heated by the description. Absolutely no chance they were simply told what the Thais thought they wanted to hear to avoid further confrontation, right?

I just think common sense says that this is not an issue.

Common sense? In Thailand?

They work for the police for goodness' sake.

So you have unquestionable trust in the regular Thai police as was described in my earlier post? You believe they would be willing to suffer the consequences themselves in any number of scenarios rather than offer up the farang? That's some amazing and rather unique faith.

For the ones who are getting in on busts it probably isn't smart for them. And doing illegal things while they're at it. Ya, that's dumb. I think work permits would be the least of their worries regarding putting themselves in danger. For those who are just going to assist tourists that need someone to understand them better I say go ahead and don't worry about the work permits.

Is that an across-the-board endorsement of any other illegal activity that doesn't involve an extremely high risk of apprehension?

I know the quote came only from Phuket, but I think it is representative of a clear attitude for this position from those in the government. Good job of misdirecting my argument to take the light off of yours. Sorry, but work permits in Samui has nothing to do with busts in Pattaya.

But getting pseudo clearance in Phuket has everything to do with Samui? Consistency?

Why don't they give a clearer written exemption? Probably lazy or there is somebody who doesn't want to set a precedent for volunteers.

Precisely. But these same lazy and apathetic people will protect the workers when the need to do so arises?

Regardless, out of 200 foreigners a year arrested for working with no work permits my point was I doubt any were tourist police volunteers. I'd bet money on it.

It wasn't 200 arrested. It was 200 deported. The number arrested was no doubt significantly more than 200. But I'm curious, is that the response you got from george in your PM to him?

Regarding that story about tourists working as tsunami help volunteers without having work permits and some in the government crying foul (because they said work permits weren't necessary as it was an urgent situation and they were doing good work), I'm sorry I don't remember a source but it's true. It was three years ago. I have a good memory but not photographic. I remember reading the article in probably the bangkok post or maybe the Nation or some other place online or in print. It was a reliable source whatever it was.

Sorry, but a source is not reliable unless it's verifiable. You might try Google to help corroborate your contention.