Alphabet Questions

[Spee]

Thai language class is going well and I'm taking the first really big step by plunging head first into reading and writing thai script, starting with the alphabet, numbers and simple words.

In going through the alphabet training program from www.learningthai.com, I had some questions on some of the word representations.

I wanted to understand what the words represented accurately but couldn't find an exact description to these letters (and their thai names). What are they?

ฎปฎัก

tor bpa-tuk

picture looks like a spear or javelin or maybe a pen, but can’t tell and the dictionary gives different thai words for these anyway

ฑมณโฑ

thor mon-tho

picture looks like a prince or princess or some sort of spiritual figure

ภสำเภา

phor sam-phao

picture looks like an older style sailing ship

ษฦาษี

sor reu-see

picture looks like an old man meditating

หหีบ

hor heep

picture looks like a storage box or suitcase

ฬจุฬา

lor juu-laa

picture looks like a kite, but the dictionary word for kite is:

wao/f/ or ว่าว

----------------------------

On a separate tact, I am having trouble understanding when and how to use the "ai" dipthong.

Is it something to do with inantimate ojects versus living objects?

In class, the teacher said the “ใ“ was used more towards spritual things (e.g., jai dee), whereas the “ไ“ is used more for inantimate objects.

But I don’t understand things like this case where they are used in the same phrase to describe a leaf or group of leaves.

ใบไม้

bai/m/ maai/h/

In this case, both forms of the "ai" dipthong are used in describing the same thing, which is a leaf or group of leaves.

Help please !!

TIA ....

[Jack Jones]

ฎปฎัก

tor bpa-tuk - A kind of spear

ฑมณโฑ

thor mon-tho - Montho the Queen

ภสำเภา

phor sam-phao - a kind of ship

ษฦาษี

sor reu-see - hermit

หหีบ

hor heep - a kind of box

ฬจุฬา

lor juu-laa - a kind of kite

On the second point, the use of ai-mai-muan (sorry no Thai keyboard - I had to copy your script from below), I think it is only used with the following 20 words:

Glai (falling tone)

Krai (normal tone)

Krai (falling tone)

Chai (falling tone)

Chai (high tone)

Yai (normal tone)

Jai (normal tome)

Dai (normal tone)

Dtai (falling tone)

Nai (normal tone)

Bai (normal tone)

Bai (falling tone)

Fai (low tone)

Sa-pai (low/hight tone)

Sai (low tone)

Sai (rising tone)

Long-lai (normal/rising tone)

Hai (falling tone)

Mai (low tone)

Yai (low tone)

It's just a question of learning these and then every other word with an ai vowel, uses ai-ma-lai.

Spee are you based in the UK? If so had did you get hold of your Thai keyboard?

[the scouser]

Spee are you based in the UK? If so had did you get hold of your Thai keyboard?

Hi Jack,

If you use Windows XP the facility to type in Thai is already lurking on your computer, you just need to install it. It's then a matter of plodding through your Roman alphabet keyboard seing which key relates to which Thai character. For instructions try here. Click on the "Thai fonts" link.

Scouse.

[the scouser]

picture looks like a kite, but the dictionary word for kite is:

wao/f/ or ว่าว

That's the most common word for kite and if you kite fly you can be said to ชักว่าว.

Scouse.

[gburns57au]

But I don’t understand things like this case where they are used in the same phrase to describe a leaf or group of leaves.

ใบไม้

bai/m/ maai/h/

In this case, both forms of the "ai" dipthong are used in describing the same thing, which is a leaf or group of leaves.

Help please !

That is a word not a phrase.....

[Spee]

Spee are you based in the UK? If so had did you get hold of your Thai keyboard?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the advice Jack!

Yeah I'm on a temporary assignment in the UK.

The keyboard I use is a virtual keyboard called Unitype GlobalWriter. It is the demo version that can be downloaded from their website (www.unitype.com and look for the globalwriter demo). It is a pretty slick little app.

[Boon Mee]

picture looks like a kite, but the dictionary word for kite is:

wao/f/ or ว่าว

That's the most common word for kite and if you kite fly you can be said to ชักว่าว.

Scouse.

And you can be sure to get some laughs if you tell your Thai friends about going to the park to "Chuck-Wow"

บุญมี

[Firefoxx]

I never remembered the "b is for boat" stuff for Thai and I learned the language well enough. It's not a necessary part of learning a language.

As for the ใ ไ dipthongs (never knew they were called dipthongs, hehe) I don't think you should worry yourself over the details. You'll learn to know the difference of which one to use as you go along, just like you learn to know when to use "to" "too" and "two", through experience, and not through getting generalizations in your head.

ไหม silk

ไหม้ burning

ไฟไหม้ a fire

ใด which

ใคร who

ใต้ south

ใจ heart

ใช้ use

ให้ give

ใบ any type of sheet

ไม่ no

ไม้ related to trees

ใบไม้ a leaf

ใบเรือ a sail

เรือใบ a sailing boat

ใน inside

ไหน where

ไฝ mole

ไว fast

ไง how

ไป go

ไอ cough

ไท free

ไทย Thai!

As you can see, there is really no good rule to describe which word uses which.

[Spee]

As for the ใ ไ dipthongs (never knew they were called dipthongs, hehe)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the info.

Not a language expert, but "dipthong" is not something specific to Thai. I think it is a description for vowel pairs is any language.

[Jack Jones]

I don't know much about the history of the language but I would guess that some of the words used to represent the letters of the alphabet are older style words and not used today in everyday language.

With regard to the query on bai-maai, ai-mai-muan is only used with the word bai (leaf) and ai-mai-m-lai is used with the word maai. I think if this translated into English there is a hyphen between the two words, although you are right bai-maai and bai both mean leaf. I guess it's one of the querks you get with any language. My advice would be to learn those 20 words and then you're safe in the knowledge that every other word with an ai sound uses ai-mai-m-lai.

BTW: Thanks for the advice on the keyboard, I'll have a play at the weekend.

[Richard W]

ฎปฎัก

tor bpa-tuk - A kind of spear

Also translated as 'goad', as in a cattle-goad.

ฑมณโฑ

thor mon-tho - Montho the Queen

Wife of Totsakan ('ten-necked'), the villain of the first part of the Ramakhian.

In the Indan version, the Ramayana, she is known as Mandodari, with plain dentals! However, there is an alternative traditional of spelling the name with cerebral consonants. Mandodari is one of the group of five virtuous women of Hindu mythology (the others are Sita, Draupadi, Ahilya and Tara), but this tradition does not seem to present in Thailand.

ภสำเภา

phor sam-phao - a kind of ship

A junk, to be precise.

ษฦาษี

sor reu-see - hermit

หหีบ

hor heep - a kind of box

ฬจุฬา

lor juu-laa - a kind of kite

For a while I though it peculiar that there should be a special word for the male of this species. Then I discovered it did not mean the bird! I'm still not quite sure what a 'male kite' is.

On the second point, the use of ai-mai-muan (sorry no Thai keyboard - I had to copy your script from below), I think it is only used with the following 20 words:

Exactly. It's rather like igh in English - a historical remnant. Some dialects, and Lao, still make the distinction in speech.

Krai (normal tone)

Is there any historical justification for the vowel in this word? คน ไร should have contracted to *ไคร, not ใคร. Standard Thai has historically incorrect tonemarks often enough to show that false spellings can easily creep in.

[meadish_sweetball]

lor juu-laa - a kind of kite

For a while I though it peculiar that there should be a special word for the male of this species.  Then I discovered it did not mean the bird!  I'm still not quite sure what a 'male kite' is.

http://www.thailand-travel.net/index.cfm?menuid=116

explains a little about the kite fights and the female and male kites used.

[MasterPaolo]

Sawaddee krub,

There're only 20 words that use "ใ" and I'll try to get them right for you

ผู้ใหญ่

ใหม่

ให้

สะใภ้

ใช้

ใส่

ใจ

หลงใหล

ใคร

ใคร่

ใบ

ใส

ใด

ใน

ใต้

ใบ้

ใย

ใกล้

apprearantly I can't get all 20 of them

Gotta go but will be back tomorrow (with their meaning2)

[snowleopard]

Sawaddee krub,

There're only 20 words that use "ใ" and I'll try to get them right for you

ผู้ใหญ่

ใหม่

ให้

สะใภ้

ใช้

ใส่

ใจ

หลงใหล

ใคร

ใคร่

ใบ

ใส

ใด

ใน

ใต้

ใบ้

ใย

ใกล้

apprearantly I can't get all 20 of them

Gotta go but will be back tomorrow (with their meaning2)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here are a few different meanings I can think of...

ผู้ใหญ่ "poo-yai"=adult,elder,senior,leader; chief; commander; superior, principal, ruler, head

ใหม่ "mai"=new; fresh;novel; latest; recent;again;once more; repeatedly;newly; recently

ให้ "hai"=give;offer;present; award;permit; allow; consent to

สะใภ้ "sa-pai"=daughter-in-law; female-in-law

ใช้ "chai"=use

ใส่ "sai"=dress oneself;put something in;enter things like passwords

ใจ "jai"=heart;mind; spirit;disposition

หลงใหล "long lai"=fascinating

ใคร "krai"=who

ใคร่ "krai"=want; wish for

ใบ "bai"=leaf;classifier for fruits,containers,tree leaves,documents

ใส "sai"=transparentl;clear

ใด "dai"=which;any

ใน "nai"=in;of

ใต้ "dtai"=south;under

ใบ้ "bai"=deaf; dumb;signal;hint;silent

ใย "yai"=web; fiber, thread;bright;fine and/or delicate

ใกล้ "glai"=near; close; approach;adjacent

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[Mango-Guy]

Spee, if you're starting out on the alphabet you may find this a useful site (unless you're already using it...) as it includes downloadable flashcards:

http://thaiphrasebook.com/books/014.php

MG

[Spee]

Spee, if you're starting out on the alphabet you may find this a useful site (unless you're already using it...) as it includes downloadable flashcards:

http://thaiphrasebook.com/books/014.php

MG

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, have had it for a while. It is a nice little freebie.

[Diggerbasher]

It appears learningThai.com has a bandwidth problem so does anyone know of another site where the Thai alphabet can be listened to.

[Richard W]

It appears learningThai.com has a bandwidth problem so does anyone know of another site where the Thai alphabet can be listened to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thai Consonants at thai-language.com.

[Diggerbasher]

Thanks Richard W for the link.

Seems today learnthai have now coughed up the money for some more bandwidth.Great site for beginners.

[taotoey]

ฎปฎัก

tor bpa-tuk

It is more like a javelin. It is(was) used to control some animals, buffalo, ox, cow, in the old days.

ภสำเภา

phor sam-phao

Yes, it is an older chinese-style sailing ship.

หหีบ

hor heep

Storage box many of you/us use to keep things in it.

ฬจุฬา

lor juu-laa

It is a kind of kite with specific shape just like you see in picture.

ใบไม้

bai/m/ maai/h/

Your curiosity on this (I use "this" only, not "this word") is a good one.

ใบ and ไม้ are two different words. Composing them together to mean leaf or leaves.