Very, Very Low Risk 10% Return.

[LANDOFSMILE]

Hi,

This is my second post, and as my first post was asking for information,

I thought that it was only fair to share some of my low risk investment ideas.

My basic strategy is to achieve a return of over 10% a year, with minimum volatility and

minimum risk to my capital base.

I am a UK resident, so all of my investment ideas are available to UK investors.

The three basic investments I am currently holding are as follows.

1. Black Rock Uk Absolute Alpha Class P.

2. PATF Traded Endowment Policy Fund.

3. EEA Life Settlement fund.

I believe that by splitting my capital between these three funds, it is possible to achieve a return

of 10% a year regardless of economic conditions.

Hope this helps.

[JohnC]

Not really considering The Abbey Bank is offering 10% on deposit accounts with no risk.

[teej]

What does the OP have to do with Thailand? Reads like spam to me.

[Boater]

Not really considering The Abbey Bank is offering 10% on deposit accounts with no risk.

really

[cophen]

Not really considering The Abbey Bank is offering 10% on deposit accounts with no risk.

It's not a simple deposit account - it's a regular savings account where you can't deposit more than £250 a month and it only runs for 12 months anyway. You also have to open a separate regular investment or Pension account and the interest drops to 0.1% for any month during which you make a withdrawal. Typical banking trickery.

[libya 115]

Not really considering The Abbey Bank is offering 10% on deposit accounts with no risk.

10% on a regular saver account: Max 250 GBP per month: Just a con-trick by a Spanish bank.

Try a 7% One-Year Bond with Britannia International.

www.britanniainternational.com

Yields a healthy monthly return of 1150 GBP for a comfortable Thailand lifestyle for just a 200K GBP deposit: Problem solved.

[GuestHouse]

Before I take the OP's advice on investments in the UK I'm going to observe his response to my advice on his investment ideas in Thailand.

[RakJungTorlae]

Hi,

This is my second post, and as my first post was asking for information,

I thought that it was only fair to share some of my low risk investment ideas.

My basic strategy is to achieve a return of over 10% a year, with minimum volatility and

minimum risk to my capital base.

I am a UK resident, so all of my investment ideas are available to UK investors.

The three basic investments I am currently holding are as follows.

1. Black Rock Uk Absolute Alpha Class P.

2. PATF Traded Endowment Policy Fund.

3. EEA Life Settlement fund.

I believe that by splitting my capital between these three funds, it is possible to achieve a return

of 10% a year regardless of economic conditions.

Hope this helps.

I add my money to a bank in Australia!! Around 7% Rent out 46 apartment – another 40 apartments are on its way up~ I WIN I WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LaoPo]

Not really considering The Abbey Bank is offering 10% on deposit accounts with no risk.

10% on a regular saver account: Max 250 GBP per month: Just a con-trick by a Spanish bank.

Try a 7% One-Year Bond with Britannia International.

www.britanniainternational.com

Yields a healthy monthly return of 1150 GBP for a comfortable Thailand lifestyle for just a 200K GBP deposit: Problem solved.

That's 6.9%/year; what about the risks ?

What about inflation ? in the UK and/or Thailand ?

What about if the company goes under ? Up to what amount is your 200K GBP secured, according to UK laws ?

What about taxes over the 6.9%/year; No taxes to be paid ?

What about the risks GBP[ versus Baht ?

What happens after the 'one-year' bond ?

Many questions.......

LaoPo

[cophen]

Not really considering The Abbey Bank is offering 10% on deposit accounts with no risk.

10% on a regular saver account: Max 250 GBP per month: Just a con-trick by a Spanish bank.

Try a 7% One-Year Bond with Britannia International.

www.britanniainternational.com

Yields a healthy monthly return of 1150 GBP for a comfortable Thailand lifestyle for just a 200K GBP deposit: Problem solved.

That's 6.9%/year; what about the risks ?

What about inflation ? in the UK and/or Thailand ?

What about if the company goes under ? Up to what amount is your 200K GBP secured, according to UK laws ?

What about taxes over the 6.9%/year; No taxes to be paid ?

What about the risks GBP[ versus Baht ?

What happens after the 'one-year' bond ?

Many questions.......

LaoPo

2 answers:

If the company goes under the first £15K is covered on the Isle of Man but in Brittania's T&Cs they say that the 'mother company' in the UK will cover their liabilites. The UK has a coverage of £35k. Their wording doesn't make it clear whether they'd cover to £35k or £15k.

If you're non-resident for tax purposes there's no tax to pay.

Edited July 6, 2008 by cophen

[PattayaParent]

Not really considering The Abbey Bank is offering 10% on deposit accounts with no risk.

It's not a simple deposit account - it's a regular savings account where you can't deposit more than £250 a month and it only runs for 12 months anyway. You also have to open a separate regular investment or Pension account and the interest drops to 0.1% for any month during which you make a withdrawal. Typical banking trickery.

So you only get the 10% on the first months' 250 Quid, 11/12 of 10% on the second, 10/12 on the third, etc. down to 1/12 of 10% on the last (12th) month's deposit.

So not a 10% return on the year at all.

[Boater]

northern rock are offering 6 %

http://www.northernrock.co.uk/savings/onli...campaign=esaver

but not to sure who would trust there money with them

also on this link, A and A are offering 12 % !!

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/savings/

[libya 115]

Not really considering The Abbey Bank is offering 10% on deposit accounts with no risk.

10% on a regular saver account: Max 250 GBP per month: Just a con-trick by a Spanish bank.

Try a 7% One-Year Bond with Britannia International.

www.britanniainternational.com

Yields a healthy monthly return of 1150 GBP for a comfortable Thailand lifestyle for just a 200K GBP deposit: Problem solved.

That's 6.9%/year; what about the risks ?

What about inflation ? in the UK and/or Thailand ?

What about if the company goes under ? Up to what amount is your 200K GBP secured, according to UK laws ?

What about taxes over the 6.9%/year; No taxes to be paid ?

What about the risks GBP[ versus Baht ?

What happens after the 'one-year' bond ?

Many questions.......

LaoPo

Yes that is about 6.9% because 7% is the compounded figure.

Risks? Tiny. More chance of being struck by lightning.

Inflation in U.K. will peak at about 4.5% by end of 2008, maximum.

Inflation in Thailand: No idea: But I have certainly noticed it recently.

18,000 GBP of first 20,000 is covered (secured).

No taxes if you are non UK resident.

GBP v Baht: Don't know, probably steady 60-70 rate

At the end of one year, money transferred into standard savings account. You can withdraw or collect instant access interest rate.

[libya 115]

northern rock are offering 6 %

http://www.northernrock.co.uk/savings/onli...campaign=esaver

but not to sure who would trust there money with them

I would assume that now Northern Rock is nationalised they are as safe as the Bank of England? So surely the safest place to put money after National Savings?

[cophen]

northern rock are offering 6 %

http://www.northernrock.co.uk/savings/onli...campaign=esaver

but not to sure who would trust there money with them

I would assume that now Northern Rock is nationalised they are as safe as the Bank of England? So surely the safest place to put money after National Savings?

They're still pulling tricks though. I opened an account with them which initially paid 6.3%. 6 weeks later it was down to 6% without any notification. When the BoE dropped the base rate by 0.25% a couple of weeks later they dropped their rate to 5.65%. They always been one for pulling stunts even before they went bust.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Hi,

This is my second post, and as my first post was asking for information,

I thought that it was only fair to share some of my low risk investment ideas.

My basic strategy is to achieve a return of over 10% a year, with minimum volatility and

minimum risk to my capital base.

I am a UK resident, so all of my investment ideas are available to UK investors.

The three basic investments I am currently holding are as follows.

1. Black Rock Uk Absolute Alpha Class P.

2. PATF Traded Endowment Policy Fund.

3. EEA Life Settlement fund.

I believe that by splitting my capital between these three funds, it is possible to achieve a return

of 10% a year regardless of economic conditions.

Hope this helps.

Three reasonably interesting ideas. My own view:

1) I would disagree that they are very very low risk even as a portolio rather than looking individually. Even though EEA and PATF are not supposed to be correlated in terms of market/credit risk, you may find they are correlated as many invesments are in terms of liquidity, under stress conditions when people need cash. Markets are much more linked than single variables show.

Also attitudes to risk varies according to different people. Perhaps low-medium, or even medium risk but not very very low in my view.

2) Yes it's possible they may acheive 10% a year. No not regardless of economic conditions. Reasons:

- Blackrock UK Absolute sets itself a target return of 8-10% p.a. i.e it's target is below your 10 %. EEA sets itself a minimum target of 8% p.a, and targets a total net return of 9-10% p.a. So for 2 out of your own 3 funds, 10% is at the high end of their own targets

- The fact that EEA sets a lower annual minimum target compared to a consistent one implies its returns will be variable.

- Black Rock UK Absolute P Class lost money in its first 6-8 months after launch (March 2006 onwards). It outperforms long only funds in tough times, but may underperform in good times. Hence regardless of economic conditions would not apply for this. If it lost money the other two would need to make on average 15% each to compensate. As it can both short and long equities at the same time, I'm waiting for the day it gets both elements wrong!

- Over 3 years to June PATF earned about 25% in each of GBP/USD and EUR (with slight differences per currency). That's only 8%, and also obviously under 10%! Over 5 years yes the GBP is up around 80%, but EUR and USD under 40%. On the plus side it does seem to have low volatility compared to equities.

- If you are never touching your capital that's one thing. If you need to take out your 10% p.a. that's a different matter. Funds can lose as well as gain. Hence risking you need to take your money at the wrong time or in low periods. Particularly for Black Rock

So in summary:.

- Yes they are interesting investments, and their lack of general correlation to simple long equities, may make them useful additions to some portfolios.

But:

- I'd be suspicious of anyone marketing them to me at "10% p.a. regardless of economic conditions". Promises of double digit returns are common among the worst IFAs. Anyone decent would mention they are acheivable, but should not be relied on...

- If someone told me: "aiming for 8%+ returns over the mid-long term, medium risk, with some risk of capital loss short-medium term" I'd say that's more accurate

Edited July 8, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[stevemcqueen]

How do these look?

http://www.bankofscotland-international.co...-rates/home.asp

[Gary A]

Beware of those "SAFE" investments that are paying good dividends. My broker advised me to buy safe ETF's that were paying over 9 percent and paid monthly. I took his advice and yes, they are still paying the dividends, BUT the share price has dropped over 40 percent and appears to still be dropping quickly. Just yesterday they dropped nearly 3 percent. I don't want to fire him but I would like to break his knee caps.

[stevemcqueen]

These seem "As safe as the Bank of England"! http://www.northernrock-guernsey.co.gg/act...edRateBonds.htm

7% guaranteed for 3 years.

Are they better/safer than these? http://www.bankofscotland-international.co...-rates/home.asp

Looking for low risk(boring and unadventurous,I know!)

Edited July 10, 2008 by stevemcqueen

[LANDOFSMILE]

Personally I am targetting returns of around 5% above inflation, to grow my capital base over the years.

While there are a lot of very good rates on deposit accounts at the moment,

the difference between the returns on deposit accounts & inflation are too close to allow me to achieve my capital growth targets.

I am prepared to take measured risks to achieve my goal, and as a result what I perceive as low risk,

others who need to live off their investment returns may perceive as medium risk.

I am currently thinking of investing 25% of my capital in Lloyds TSB shares, the share price has been battered to such an extent

that they are currently paying a dividend of 12%. (This is an investment I personally perceive as medium risk).

Does anyone else have any lowish risk / low volatility / non correlated investment ideas to share ?

[Edonista]

1. Black Rock Uk Absolute Alpha Class P.

according to this link, http://www.h-l.co.uk/fund_research/securit...edol/B11V7T6.hl there is a 5% charge when you buy the fund plus a 1,50% yearly charge. I think it's difficult to make money with such charges.

[LANDOFSMILE]

1. Black Rock Uk Absolute Alpha Class P.

according to this link, http://www.h-l.co.uk/fund_research/securit...edol/B11V7T6.hl there is a 5% charge when you buy the fund plus a 1,50% yearly charge. I think it's difficult to make money with such charges.

The web link you have provided is to the Hargreaves & Landsdowne website, if you had read their terms you would have

realised that by investing through them their is no initial charge, and the annual fee is reduced.

[manjara]

Personally I am targetting returns of around 5% above inflation, to grow my capital base over the years.

While there are a lot of very good rates on deposit accounts at the moment,

the difference between the returns on deposit accounts & inflation are too close to allow me to achieve my capital growth targets.

I am prepared to take measured risks to achieve my goal, and as a result what I perceive as low risk,

others who need to live off their investment returns may perceive as medium risk.

I am currently thinking of investing 25% of my capital in Lloyds TSB shares, the share price has been battered to such an extent

that they are currently paying a dividend of 12%. (This is an investment I personally perceive as medium risk).

Does anyone else have any lowish risk / low volatility / non correlated investment ideas to share ?

I would agree with investing in banks at the moment. The shares have gone down so much and there is still a lot of negative sentiment, so it's probably about as low as it can go (unless of course they go bankrupt!). Alliance & Leicester and possibly even B&B or Northern Rock might be worth a bet as you would hope that all the bad news is already out there. Based on the current prices, the yields are pretty high, though obviously the increased cost of capital will hurt their margins.

There are also Income Investment trusts out there which have always targetted around 5-6% yield by investing in companies with good dividend payouts, that may spread the risk across several banks (or other high yield companies).

I put most of my investments in Euros a while ago (when it was at parity with the dollar), so although the markets and my investments have not done well, I have at least made something on exchange (to GBP). Thinking of moving into dollars now - maybe an apartment in Florida?

[Naam]

I am currently thinking of investing 25% of my capital in Lloyds TSB shares, the share price has been battered to such an extent that they are currently paying a dividend of 12%. (This is an investment I personally perceive as medium risk).

more applicable is "they have been paying a dividend which is presently equivalent to a yield of... ". what Lloyds will pay in the future is nothing but a guess based on wishful thinking

[LANDOFSMILE]

I am currently thinking of investing 25% of my capital in Lloyds TSB shares, the share price has been battered to such an extent that they are currently paying a dividend of 12%. (This is an investment I personally perceive as medium risk).

more applicable is "they have been paying a dividend which is presently equivalent to a yield of... ". what Lloyds will pay in the future is nothing but a guess based on wishful thinking

I agree that future profitability & maintenance of the share dividend are the most important issues when picking banking shares to pick, I am specifically trying to avoid undercapatilsed banks exposed to high risk debt.

Lloyds TSB & HSBC have been the most cautious of all the UK banks, being critizised in the past for not increasing profits

as rapidly as RBS / B&B /Northern Rock etc.

Of course we all now know that the growth & increased profits by RBS / B&B /Northern Rock, came from exposure to high

risk US sub prime loans, UK buy to let etc.

My feeling is that Lloyds TSB is currently being driven down by market sentiment towards the banking sector, as opposed

to fundamental weaknesses within Lloyds.

This is why I have specifically selected Lloyds TSB, as opposed to weaker banks like HBOS, B&B etc.

Any bank which is well capatilised at this point can cherry pick customers they want to lend to, this is exactly what Lloyds

is doing with Northern Rock mortgage holders.

Therefore Lloyds TSB should maintain their profits & dividends in the future, unlike weaker banks who are struggling to raise funds

through rights issues at the worst possible time.

Does anyone have any good investment ideas to share?

[LivinLOS]

I would agree with investing in banks at the moment. The shares have gone down so much and there is still a lot of negative sentiment, so it's probably about as low as it can go (unless of course they go bankrupt!). Alliance & Leicester and possibly even B&B or Northern Rock might be worth a bet as you would hope that all the bad news is already out there.

Not a hope...

Of course IMO...

[8ball]

Check out "BankWest Telenet Saver", Do a google search.

You can get 8.25% on cash deposits over here in Australia for the next year, although that will probably rise if rates here lift again.

Cheers, 8ball.