Refused Visitor Visa

[Eightball]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to the group so I apologise in advance if this query has already been posted.

I have a GF who lives in Thailand and I have known her for 6 mths. We have been in constant contact during the 6 mths via email, text and telephone and I have visited her twice during that time. I met her when she dropped her friend off who was seeing my mate. She did work in a bar but since the last time I saw her which was a few weeks she longer works in a bar. As you all know not all bar girls are the same and I know she is a genuine person.

We wanted to be together so recently my GF applied for visitor visa to stay with me in the UK with the thought that if she was happy then after the 6mths then we would apply for a fiancee visa when she went back to Thailand. She went to an agency for advice and they helped her with the application. I sent the info that was required ie.. Bank statements, letter of sponsorship and a copy of my passport inc. a copy of the stamps showing I had been to Thailand on 2 seperate occasions. During the interview when asked if she had worked in a bar she said no (on the advice of the agency). The person interviewing realised that she was lying and refused her a visa there were other points mentioned on the refusal statement such as not showing sufficiently strong personal, social or economic ties to satisfy that she would return to Thailand.

She didnt mean to lie its just that she so wants to be with me.

What is the chance of reapplying for a visa? Would it be better to try for a fiancee visa also do you have to be engaged for the fiancee visa or just show an intention to marry?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[taxexile]

As you all know not all bar girls are the same and I know she is a genuine person.

She didnt mean to lie its just that she so wants to be with me.

[the scouser]

Hi Eightball,

There is nothing stopping your g/f from immediately reapplying for a visit visa but if her circumstances have not changed since the previous refusal she is likely to be refused again. It sounds from what you wrote that she was refused principally because she has no good reason to return to Thailand at the end of her holiday and the visa officer is therefore of the belief that she'll stay in the UK.

In order to qualify for a fiancé(e) visa several factors have to be fulfilled but proving that you're engaged is not one of them. A simple statement to that effect will suffice. Your g/f would be allowed to remain in the UK for 6 months during which time you should get married. I wouldn't apply for it out of expedience but rather if you and your g/f do wish to marry.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Eightball]

Hi The Scouser,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes the main reason for the refusal seems to be because she didnt have a good reason to return to Thailand at the end of the 6 months and also it states on the refusal form that she has never travelled outside of Thailand and has no history of entry clearance compliance and that she lied about not working in a bar.

Because my GF lied about not working in a bar, will this hamper a future application for a visa even if it is a fiance(e) visa instead of the Visitor Visa that we have already tried for?

Could you advise me on what information both of us need to supply to try for the Fiance(e) visa also can we apply asap or do we have to wait a certain amount of time before applying.

Thanks

Eightball

[Dickie]

Hi The Scouser,

Thank you for your reply. 

Yes the main reason for the refusal seems to be because she didnt have a good reason to return to Thailand at the end of the 6 months and also it states on the refusal form that she has never travelled outside of Thailand and has no history of entry clearance compliance and that she lied about not working in a bar.

Because my GF lied about not working in a bar, will this hamper a future application for a visa even if it is a fiance(e) visa instead of the Visitor Visa that we have already tried for?

Could you advise me on what information both of us need to supply to try for the Fiance(e) visa also can we apply asap or do we have to wait a certain amount of time before applying.

Thanks

Eightball

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She's ######ing you about, the UK embassy/visa people are smart enough to spot it and they don't want her in the UK.

[SK1972]

Sorry, I dont see why she had to lie about the bargirl thingy. The embassy most probably realised that and most probably know she is lying about the tourist visa thing and will not come back after the expiry date.

Why lie??? Tell the truth!!

[chonabot]

Why lie??? Tell the truth!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because she would be turned down on that point alone , the interview would have been wrapped up as soon as that fact had been admitted.

[SK1972]

Chon........maybe so but they were suspicious anyway. I know 2 cases where ex bargirls were granted tourist visas........but they never came back

Eightball, how can you know she is a genuine person after knowing her for only 6 short months via "distant" communication?

[Eightball]

Hi SK1972,

She went to an agency to help with visa application and was advised by them not to say she had worked in a bar. As for the genuine person part, Im a pretty good judge of character. I have visited my GF on 2 seperate occasions within the last 6 mths and I constantly communicate to her via email etc. Im not able to stay out in Thailand due to work etc in the UK so this visa application was a chance for her to meet my family and to get to know each other better.

Eightball

[SK1972]

Eight.......well if she cannot get a tourist visa, fly your family over to meet her instead if you are serious about her

Sorry mate but I dont think one can really get to know the real person from a few visits, but thats my opinion.

Anyway, good luck to you!

[the scouser]

Because my GF lied about not working in a bar, will this hamper a future application for a visa even if it is a fiance(e) visa instead of the Visitor Visa that we have already tried for?

Could you advise me on what information both of us need to supply to try for the Fiance(e) visa also can we apply asap or do we have to wait a certain amount of time before applying.

Hi Eightball,

There is nothing preventing your g/f from applying for a fiancé(e) visa now but the embassy is likely to view it dimly when she's only just sought a visit visa. Perhaps apply after you've next visited. There follow the immigration rules which your g/f will need to satisfy in order to get the fiancé(e) visa:-

290. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a fiancé(e) are that:

(i) the applicant is seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom for marriage to a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement; and

(ii) the parties to the proposed marriage have met; and

(iii) each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse after the marriage; and

(iv) adequate maintenance and accommodation without recourse to public funds will be available for the applicant until the date of the marriage; and

(v) there will, after the marriage, be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively; and

(vi) the parties will be able after the marriage to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds.

You will need to provide 6 months' bank statements, wage slips, a copy of your passport, decrees absolute if either of you has been married before, evidence of your accommodation, and proof of your relationship (photos, letters, e-mails, phone bills etc.).

The problem with your g/f having lied is that the visa officer can then say that whatever she says is lacking in credibility. You are best to confront this fact head-on in a covering letter to the ECO stating that whilst she lied is was upon advice which she now realises was incorrect etc.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Eightball]

Hi Scouse,

Thank you for your advice most helpful.

Eightball

Also Thanks SK1972 for 'Good Luck'.

[Ignorami]

Hi all,

this was an interesting thread. I am myself in the process of inviting a woman from Thailand to spend a few weeks with me.

And she is definitely working in a bar. But she is very reluctant to state that fact in her application. Why? Is it that being a bargirl almost automatically disqualify you for a visit/tourist visa? Thus its best to lie about your occupation and keep fingers crossed noone finds out? Furthermore I havent known this woman for more than perhaps a week. Not six months like eightball. Is that also a disadvantage?

Pretty much all of the paperwork I have to come up with is done and will probably be ready to be faxed/sent to the Embassy sometime next week. It would be so not good if it all failed because of this occupation issue.

Oi, input on this would be highly appreciated!

Thank you,

Ignorami

[otherstuff1957]

Most western Embassasies will NOT give a Visa to a current or former Bar Girl. The only way a current or former bar girl can get a visa is to lie and give a convincing Bio of a non-bar history.

Of course, plenty of non-bar girls get turned down for visas as well. Most Embassasies will look for evidence that she can support herself during the trip and, more importantly, will she return to Thailand when her visa expires. Unless she has a compelling reason to return to Thailand - job, property, family etc... She will probably not be granted a visa.

The bad news is that if she has been turned down once, she is unlikely to get accepted if she reapplies. While there are always exceptions, I would think that the only way to get her to the UK is to marry her and even that is no guarantee.

BTW, I'm not advocating marrying her on such short aquaintance!

[otherstuff1957]

Oops - I forgot to add: Good Luck!

There are always exceptions to the rule, and Scouse - as usual - gave you some good advice!

[Ignorami]

Oi, oi, oi

first I cursed the bunch of papers to be produced but now this seems to be nothing compared to this occupation issue. What is wrong with working in a bar? I will formally invite her, pay for her return ticket, get her a health insurance, pay for everything when/if she ever gets here, produce documents stating my financial status, donate a pint of my blood and heaven knows what else. That should suffice I think.

And I believe she got quite a few good reasons to return to Thailand. One being her family for sure. And her job at the bar oops the saloon I mean. Also I am leaving for Thailand at the beginning of next year. To "retire".

Anyway, I will follow your advice. The lady in question is also very much convinced that stating bar girl as occupation will definitely result in a thumbs down visa vice. Oi.

Had it not been for this forum I would never have realized the "trouble" I am in. Nor the possible solutions.

Thank you all,

Ignorami

[Ian Curtis]

Hi Eightball,

I have never applied for a visa for a thai to visit me in Uk but; when I was working (unofficially) in Pattay with my own school I was asked on numerous occasions to help with the form filling for guys who wanted their "girlfriiend" to get a tourist visa.

Mainly they were refused because of their lies. E.g. I work in a Tailor's shop but no letter of reference or phone number. The British Embassy came back with, "we know the 'average' worker in Thailand gets 2 weeks holiday per year at the most, so please explain why you are asking for 3 month"?

Then it was noted on the form that the girl has 1/2/3 children because their birth certificates are a pre-requisit; the embassy was not happy that the girl does not live with her children!

It can be construed that if the girl has property/land in her name. Also things like motorbikes and cars then this might help as a reson of wishing to return here. But it can also work against her because upon perusing her bankbook there is no evidence that she has bought these thing herself - somebody has been giving her 'gifts' and for what?

The end result is always the same, "we are not convinced that you would want to return because your ties here are flimsey"

However, one good result; A girl bar girl came daily for her english lessons with me for the best part of 18 months. Then she met a French guy. My only advice was not to tell lies. So she went for the interview in the knowledge of her 'work'. The embassy phoned me and it was 'yes, she is a good honest girl' and now she lives in France.

Sometimes ok but mostly failure

Ia Curtis

[Richard W]

donate a pint of my blood

Who to? The UK Blood Transfusion service won't take it if you've slept with an (ex-)prostitute in the past 12 months. As far as they are concerned, sleeping with someone for money once is enough to make someone count as a prostitute. See Donor Health Check.

[Trevor]

A girl bar girl came daily for her english lessons with me for the best part of 18 months. Then she met a French guy. My only advice was not to tell lies. So she went for the interview in the knowledge of her 'work'. The embassy phoned me and it was 'yes, she is a good honest girl' and now she lives in France.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a world of difference between visa applications to the Schengen countries and the UK. 50 years of hopeless British governments since the war have flooded the country with commonwealth and illegal immigrants so now they are battening down the hatches on soft targets like legal visa applications from poor countries. By contrast, the mainland European countries are much more humane and reasonable. If you can't work in Thailand, consider mainland Europe!

[creamontop]

There is a world of difference between visa applications to the Schengen countries and the UK. 50 years of hopeless British governments since the war have flooded the country with commonwealth and illegal immigrants so now they are battening down the hatches on soft targets like legal visa applications from poor countries. By contrast, the mainland European countries are much more humane and reasonable. If you can't work in Thailand, consider mainland Europe!

Dont consider the rest of Europe (besides UK) as an easier "gate to heaven" for immigrants.....

I can speak for Belgium. The last 5 years Belgium was "invaded" by woman out of Former Russian Republics. Comming to Belgium on a marriage base.

Perfidious marriages where common knowledge. Russian brides marrying a dude they never saw, maybe only 1 - 2 hours before standing in front of a mayor to get legally married, getting this way legal Citizenship into Belgium. It became a huge problem. As those people never where seen together after once they have been married. This is now past tense. Also the massive "deportations" (to use a WWII term) are now common knowledge. Even one died in the airplane on her trip back to Africa, it became world news .

As we all know the wanting and honest pay the bill for the troublesome who did not want to handle with a normal/good conscience.

My advice in such a situation (as wel as to eightball) is, keep both feet on the ground, open your eyes widely and think not only for yourself, but also imply some "common knowledge" regarding to your countries situation, before you make an application for your TG. Be aware it is no longer a walk to the cornershop for a pack of cigarettes. Do not forget to know your TG firmly and make sure (something very important IMO) she is not the type to get homesick after a few months. Or all your efforts will end up down the drain, together with your love for her/her love for you.

Simply write/ask the embassy all things which can interfere in your case her visa application. And also the reasons. Do not accept a general reason as an answer. But ask for a deeply explained and motivated reply for the refusal. So you can work on it for a next application. You know by then where your pittfalls are. So a question "what can I do to make sure this will not happen again on my next application ?" towards the embassy/visa "granter" is not such a bad idea. If he is a "human" with considerations, he will understand and tell you where the shoe does not fit.

Good Luck Eightball, (I'm in my way to get the same hill to climb), but.... i'm fortunate (maybe) my TG is not a bargirl.