Opening A Restaurant In Thailand

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

I am currently under the retirement age, and I have a non-immigrant "B' visa and WP from a teaching job, that I enjoy. However, I would like to open a restaurant and eventually get out of teaching, and use the restaurant as my means for staying legally in Thailand. The restaurant will serve Mexican food (good stuff like no one has eaten in Thailand), hamburgers/fries, and have a Thai menu and be located in Rayong. I anticipate it will employ 5-7 Thais.

My specific questions are as follows:

1) Do I need to form a corporation and have at least 51% Thai ownership of that corporation?

2) What are the visa implications and requirements for me that are associated with ownership of this business?

3) Can I work in the restaurant? This is the most important issue, because I can't see allowing a Thai run my ship. I need to supervise both the cooking process and the front store operation. I have heard that bar owners cannot be seen working in their bars. Does this also apply to restaurants, and are there (legal) ways around this?

I don't need restaurant advice, as I have managed several restaurants, and have substantial kitchen and front store experience. I am confident in my skills and my restaurant concept and know about the low success rates of restaurants.

Thanks in advance for your replies, and good advice will get you comps when I'm opened (but no free gasoline to get to Rayong ).

[digitalchromakey]

I am currently under the retirement age, and I have a non-immigrant "B' visa and WP from a teaching job, that I enjoy. However, I would like to open a restaurant and eventually get out of teaching, and use the restaurant as my means for staying legally in Thailand. The restaurant will serve Mexican food (good stuff like no one has eaten in Thailand), hamburgers/fries, and have a Thai menu and be located in Rayong. I anticipate it will employ 5-7 Thais.

My specific questions are as follows:

1) Do I need to form a corporation and have at least 51% Thai ownership of that corporation?

2) What are the visa implications and requirements for me that are associated with ownership of this business?

3) Can I work in the restaurant? This is the most important issue, because I can't see allowing a Thai run my ship. I need to supervise both the cooking process and the front store operation. I have heard that bar owners cannot be seen working in their bars. Does this also apply to restaurants, and are there (legal) ways around this?

I don't need restaurant advice, as I have managed several restaurants, and have substantial kitchen and front store experience. I am confident in my skills and my restaurant concept and know about the low success rates of restaurants.

Thanks in advance for your replies, and good advice will get you comps when I'm opened (but no free gasoline to get to Rayong ).

Yes, you will be able to do this and with 5-7 thai employees you should be able to get a suitable Work Permit.

If you do not have a Thai business partner, then forming a Thai Limited Company with 51% Thai ownership is certainly an option, you will need a number of Thai shareholders (6 if you are the only foreign shareholder). If you are an American Citizen, then there are different rules for you under the Treaty of Amity.

If however you intend to buy premises with your company it will be much more complicated.

Some of the roles in a restaurant can only be performed by Thais - but you can manage there for sure - with a WP.

Question - Are you still making border runs or are you on a visa extension with your local immigration dept?

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

I am currently under the retirement age, and I have a non-immigrant "B' visa and WP from a teaching job, that I enjoy. However, I would like to open a restaurant and eventually get out of teaching, and use the restaurant as my means for staying legally in Thailand. The restaurant will serve Mexican food (good stuff like no one has eaten in Thailand), hamburgers/fries, and have a Thai menu and be located in Rayong. I anticipate it will employ 5-7 Thais.

My specific questions are as follows:

1) Do I need to form a corporation and have at least 51% Thai ownership of that corporation?

2) What are the visa implications and requirements for me that are associated with ownership of this business?

3) Can I work in the restaurant? This is the most important issue, because I can't see allowing a Thai run my ship. I need to supervise both the cooking process and the front store operation. I have heard that bar owners cannot be seen working in their bars. Does this also apply to restaurants, and are there (legal) ways around this?

I don't need restaurant advice, as I have managed several restaurants, and have substantial kitchen and front store experience. I am confident in my skills and my restaurant concept and know about the low success rates of restaurants.

Thanks in advance for your replies, and good advice will get you comps when I'm opened (but no free gasoline to get to Rayong ).

Yes, you will be able to do this and with 5-7 thai employees you should be able to get a suitable Work Permit.

If you do not have a Thai business partner, then forming a Thai Limited Company with 51% Thai ownership is certainly an option, you will need a number of Thai shareholders (6 if you are the only foreign shareholder). If you are an American Citizen, then there are different rules for you under the Treaty of Amity.

If however you intend to buy premises with your company it will be much more complicated.

Some of the roles in a restaurant can only be performed by Thais - but you can manage there for sure - with a WP.

Question - Are you still making border runs or are you on a visa extension with your local immigration dept?

Sounds great, but I can see I'll need to retain an attorney to handle the incorporation or formation of a limited partnership (wish I could do it myself as I was an attorney in the U.S.). I probably will rent space, but there is the possibility of the purchase of a building, if I open the restaurant in conjunction with some partners opening a TEFL training center.

To what extent can I be "hands on" in the kitchen? It would probably take more than 6 months to train a Thai on the Mexican/American menu, and I would still want to be experimenting with new menu items, even after the Thai cooks are trained.

As to your last question, I'm on a visa extension in Rayong, and entered Thailand with a non-immigrant "B".

[bucatini70]

As someone who is working this exact concept in Bangkok and i have been working resturant for the last 5 years i can speak to some of your concerns with a certain amount of experience. You can work in the kitchen as any mangerial level chef or food as long as it cuisine that you have experience in that means not Thai food but as an American you have inherent skill as an American Chef. You can also work as a manager in any food as long as you have skill in the food and beverage industry as a manager. You cannot sell street food nor have resturant that sells directly to the street without a building. If it takes you 6 months to train for a menu you are dead lol it should not take you longer than 1 month to train the menu and that includes sourcing the products which is actually more difficult than training lol. If you have problems with staffing and training feel free to contact me privately and i can give you a hand. I would suggest not to experiment as Thai are not receptive to change and any change must be considered seriously. Remember their mother cuisine has essentially not changed in hundreds of years. When you do make change it should be a hands on training of not more than a few items at time and be prepared to rely on pictures as well as many english lessons

[whatchamacallit]

The restaurant will serve Mexican food (good stuff like no one has eaten in Thailand), hamburgers/fries, and have a Thai menu and be located in Rayong.

Just wondering if there is a big enough Expat Community living in Rayong - As They will be your customer base.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

If it takes you 6 months to train for a menu you are dead lol it should not take you longer than 1 month to train the menu and that includes sourcing the products which is actually more difficult than training lol.

I've trained Filipino cooks and wait staff before and found that they cannot work at the levels that I expect, without supervision, until they have about 6 months under their belts. I have very high standards and I will not compromise on those if my name is on the restaurant. I hope it doesn't take that long to get consistent high quality out of the staff, but I'm planning on that contingency.

Sourcing the products shouldn't be a problem, because I'm friends with the Thai owner of a well-established restaurant that has a western/Thai menu. I will probably need to mail order masa, because I don't believe its available in Thailand.

The restaurant will serve Mexican food (good stuff like no one has eaten in Thailand), hamburgers/fries, and have a Thai menu and be located in Rayong.

Just wondering if there is a big enough Expat Community living in Rayong - As They will be your customer base.

Yes, there is. Several western restaurants are well-established (Kanary Bay's Bistro 43, Odile's, BKK Express). Mataphut, where many of the ex-pats work, also has some German and Italian restaurants.

[monty]

You can incorporate a Co.,Ltd. and let the company rent premises and start your restaurant. To be able to get a WP on this company it'll need to have 2 million Baht registered capital.

Normally you do not need employees to acquire the WP, but several regional labor departments require that you do.

If they require employees, they will have to be on the books with social security paid for the 3 months before you apply (although they might make an exception for newly formed companies).

You should be able to get the WP based on the fact that you want to manage your company, plus additional specific tasks such as training staff/cooks. Which is exactly what you'll be allowed, you'll not be allowed to serve customers, collect bills etc, but you can be seen guiding your staff!

Remember, currently labor demands that you have a salary at least as big as what immigration would require for a 1 year extension. Even if you do not need/want that extension! 50,000 for most Westerners. You'll be taxed accordingly.

It's not clear whether you are on an extension of stay based on your current teaching WP or on a 90 day non immigrant B entry.

If it is the latter, your resto company will not qualify to allow you to get a 1 year extension based on your work for that company, since it'll need to be able to show audited bookkeeping of the previous year, showing that it has enough revenue to support a foreigner with a WP (basically 12 months worth of salary in revenue, which is 600,000 Baht, Pattaya immigration has been known to require this 600,000 Baht to be net profit! Doubt they require this currently though).

All in all heaps of paperwork, and first year almost guaranteed 3 monthly visa runs. Best to try and get a multi entry non immigrant b, requiring only border runs, otherwise it'll be 3 monthly runs to a location with a Thai embassy/consulate. Followed with extending your WP again to mach your new allowed to stay date.

If you currently hold the 1 year extension based on your teaching WP, you should be able to get your new job added to your current WP, and stay on your current extension. Obviously you'll still need to be teaching! I also think your current employer needs to approve of you getting a second job!

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

You should be able to get the WP based on the fact that you want to manage your company, plus additional specific tasks such as training staff/cooks. Which is exactly what you'll be allowed, you'll not be allowed to serve customers, collect bills etc, but you can be seen guiding your staff!

Remember, currently labor demands that you have a salary at least as big as what immigration would require for a 1 year extension. Even if you do not need/want that extension! 50,000 for most Westerners. You'll be taxed accordingly.

It's not clear whether you are on an extension of stay based on your current teaching WP or on a 90 day non immigrant B entry. If you currently hold the 1 year extension based on your teaching WP, you should be able to get your new job added to your current WP, and stay on your current extension. Obviously you'll still need to be teaching! I also think your current employer needs to approve of you getting a second job!

Thanks for that info. The capital requirements, my salary requirements and taxes are not a problem. I will have to start paying taxes next year anyway. I'm on a 1 year extension of a non-immigrant "B", and its no problem getting my current employer to add the 2nd job to my WP, as my current boss also operates a Thai restaurant.

So, from the above, I am permitted to train/supervise cooks and wait staff, I can cook the western menu items, and I can manage the restaurant, but I can't cook the Thai menu or wait/bus tables. Is that correct?

[NHJ]

since a week, the number of thai shareholders is not anymore 6 minimum but two.

however you'll own only 49% of the shares.

[Prakanong]

As someone who is working this exact concept in Bangkok and i have been working resturant for the last 5 years i can speak to some of your concerns with a certain amount of experience. You can work in the kitchen as any mangerial level chef or food as long as it cuisine that you have experience in that means not Thai food but as an American you have inherent skill as an American Chef. You can also work as a manager in any food as long as you have skill in the food and beverage industry as a manager. You cannot sell street food nor have resturant that sells directly to the street without a building. If it takes you 6 months to train for a menu you are dead lol it should not take you longer than 1 month to train the menu and that includes sourcing the products which is actually more difficult than training lol. If you have problems with staffing and training feel free to contact me privately and i can give you a hand. I would suggest not to experiment as Thai are not receptive to change and any change must be considered seriously. Remember their mother cuisine has essentially not changed in hundreds of years. When you do make change it should be a hands on training of not more than a few items at time and be prepared to rely on pictures as well as many english lessons

Your advice there is not just relevant to the food business - good one!

[PoorSucker]

Since you have been an attorney in US maybe this is of interest.

http://www.thaivisa.com/481.0.html

[bucatini70]

Again up to you with proper staffing at an adequate salary you should not find that it is necessary to lose 6 months of time to train staff. I would rely then on your Thai friends to help with staffing. As far as sourcing good luck if you think it is easy with or without thai friends speciality products are extremely inconsistent and difficult to come by yes Masa is available but not easy to find as well as cheeses, long grain rice, Avacado at a price you can sell, skirt steak, pinto beans to name a few and you can forget unless you ship yourself dry chili's that are prevelant in all regions of mexician cusine. It will would be the best to contact someone in mexico to come and set your kitchen and do training the salary will not be too different than what you would pay a thai. I have indian chefs come to set my Indian kitchens, Arab(usually Syrian) to set Arab kitchens, ect with great success. Salary is in/or around 20,000 and pay for housing, phone and a motorcycle very reasonable, the rest of the cooks will be Thai or Burmese depending on the outlet needs. Do not though under estimate the difficulties of sourcing or equipping an outlet as Thai work at their own speed not yours (your problem is your problem) without holidays you normally get a 6 productive hour day 5 days a week.......this week is a 3 day week.....setting up credit can be very long task you may have to take as many 5 or 6 cash deliveries before you recieve any terms. Some companies will also require on top of your company registration and tax documents; a Thai citizen who has a business to "sponsor" you before credit is given. After all is said and done though you can most definately make money in Thailand with food. I hope i hear soon that you open a "real" Mexican resturant and not the Tex-Mex or California style Mexican. It is the only thing i really miss from my second wife (from Toluca) lol in any case good luck